Knicks-Nuggets Post Game (Free Candy Strikes)

[Clyde_Style]

I know Melo is the current whipping boy because of his shooting, but a large part of that is because he is constantly called upon to bail us out with only 7-8 seconds left on the shot clock. The previous 8-10 seconds we do absolutely nothing with the ball but swing it around the perimeter. This is our so-called "ball movement."

Exactly. Nobody besides Melo on this team can create their own shot. Nobody else has any go-to move or shot. Put the ball in the hands of Fields or TD or Shump and you will be lucky if you get a 3 point chuck instead of a shot clock violation or a blocked shot.

which is why some of us are upset.. last year we had about 3 guys who could create shots and create for others.. but we were told that we must get rid of them to get just one guy who could do it..... see how this works red vines?

Wilson seems forgotten, but he was good. It wasn't just Gallo.

[K_ick_God]

One last thing: I don't hate Gallo and he clearly got a big revenge FU to the Knicks last night, along with Mozgov.

I'm not going to take that away from them, but I'm also not going to abandon what my senses are clearly reading and Gallo is a sub-par athlete. He has poor lift, an average first step, poor body control, and little explosion. Across the board his athleticism is not there.

the same things can be said about a lot of the NBA great players.. and with all of that going against him, he torched carmelo and the knicks... so either the knicks stink, melo is a horrible defender, or KG, you are just flat our wrong... which one is it?

The Knicks stink right now, Gallo is long, Gallo flops, Gallo has a good power dribble, Gallo is a pretty patient player who picks his spots pretty well -- all of the above.

It's not so that I don't want to give him credit. Beat me on the merits of the argument and I gladly concede points but I'm not going to run with the public hysteria either.

Gallo is not an athlete. Others said he was a good one and I was responding to them. Yeah it's not like everybody has to be a great athlete -- I didn't say that. I was merely rebutting a specific point.

Keep it in perspective. Pierce and Melo have careers on HOF paths. Gallo had a good game where he got most of his points at the line. Don't get ahead of yourselves.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Take your hand off your head so you can see this news flash:

KNICKS FALLING OUT OF PLAYOFF ELIGIBILITY RAPIDLY

I know it is hard to accept because you're in denial, but Melo is not a great player and we messed up. You'll be alright. We all will. It's just showbiz.

16 games into the season and we're "falling out of playoff eligibility rapidly?" C'mon Clyde, you're better than that. This team is a playoff team. A high seeded one? No...but a playoff team nonetheless.

Done any math lately my friend?

We could lose the next five games to close out January easily. That would be 6-15 or about a .300 winning percentage.

That means we'd have to play over .600 ball the rest of the way to sniff .500.

I'm not better than math.

Ok...but let's cross that bridge when/if we get there. See my post above.

[duetta]

To summarize, Anthony is a great physical talent who can dominate at the NBA level - but is NOT a transcendent talent who tear your roster apart to acquire. If you acquire him, however, you likely must nonetheless shape your roster and system around him - and not magically expect that he will blend in with any old group of players. Unfortunately, by gutting your roster / future asset pool to acquire him, and concentrating all your money in three players, you are now ill equipped to easily reshape that roster.

What should become obvious now after watching Denver is that Denver would have been a reasonable team even without him - and that Andre Miller was likely the player who had the greatest impact on that team's turnaround eight years ago, inasmuch as Miller joined the Nuggets the very same year they drafted Anthony. Andre Miller at 35 remains an extremely effective old school point guard, much better than anyone the Knicks have had since the young Mark Jackson.

Bottom line, if you're gonna keep Anthony, this roster needs to be dramatically reshaped - but does management have either the savvy or assets necessary to accomplish that?

[J0rdan4life42o]

with all due respect, Anthony is a better overall player than any of the guys we gave up and his impact could be far greater than the 3 guys we sacrificed if a team is built properly around him (including the right coach). I love Gallo, but his inconsistencies are pretty draining. He was marvelous last night, but there are many nights where he's not assertive enough and simply becomes a bystander rather than the type of force we saw last night. Anthony, for all his flaws, has never been a bystander in his career. He appreciates the responsibility and I hope he feels somewhat responsible for the thin roster we have around him now. But partial blame must be laid on management for basically dumping our only PG on the team without any plan going forward as to what to do with that position. Management was ready to go into the entire season with Douglas at point until NY won the lottery w/ Baron clearing waivers.

It was a tough trade to make, but I would do it again if we were given the chance. It's fun and easy now to lash out at Anthony, but this is a horribly assembled roster minus 3-4 players with a coach who will not be able to get the most out of this core.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Not sure if this has been brought up, but AMAR'E TOOK A CHARGE YESTERDAY! First one all season, if I'm not mistaken.

@duetta, great post.

[Clyde_Style]

One last thing: I don't hate Gallo and he clearly got a big revenge FU to the Knicks last night, along with Mozgov.

I'm not going to take that away from them, but I'm also not going to abandon what my senses are clearly reading and Gallo is a sub-par athlete. He has poor lift, an average first step, poor body control, and little explosion. Across the board his athleticism is not there.

the same things can be said about a lot of the NBA great players.. and with all of that going against him, he torched carmelo and the knicks... so either the knicks stink, melo is a horrible defender, or KG, you are just flat our wrong... which one is it?

The Knicks stink right now, Gallo is long, Gallo flops, Gallo has a good power dribble, Gallo is a pretty patient player who picks his spots pretty well -- all of the above.

It's not so that I don't want to give him credit. Beat me on the merits of the argument and I gladly concede points but I'm not going to run with the public hysteria either.

Gallo is not an athlete. Others said he was a good one and I was responding to them. Yeah it's not like everybody has to be a great athlete -- I didn't say that. I was merely rebutting a specific point.

Keep it in perspective. Pierce and Melo have careers on HOF paths. Gallo had a good game where he got most of his points at the line. Don't get ahead of yourselves.

We get it. You really are not a Gallo fan, but why do you say things like he is not an athlete? Sure he is. He is not Dominique Wilkins, but he gets around the court pretty well for a 6'10" guy. Wait a second, he's an NBA player and NBA players are athletes so I think that makes him .........hmmmm. an athlete!

[hatnlvr]

gallo worked hard and works the system. he was agressive. attacked. played how u are suppose to play. and he got the rewards.

Your smoking!!! The guy flopped more than a damn bobble head which is why he shot 20 g** d*** FT's. It's easy to be aggressive when the refs are going to give you Jordan treatment and blow the whistle every time you put the ball on the floor.

I'm tired of watching STAT & Melo getting hammered play after play with no whistles. Melo was fouled 3 times on his turn around jumper near the end of regulation (hacked twice when dribbling, then hit when he went up) and no whistle/nothing! If it was Gallo on the other end he would have been shooting an and-1

[hatnlvr]

gallo worked hard and works the system. he was agressive. attacked. played how u are suppose to play. and he got the rewards.

Your smoking!!! The guy flopped more than a damn bobble head which is why he shot 20 g** d*** FT's. It's easy to be aggressive when the refs are going to give you Jordan treatment and blow the whistle every time you put the ball on the floor.

I'm tired of watching STAT & Melo getting hammered play after play with no whistles. Melo was fouled 3 times on his turn around jumper near the end of regulation (hacked twice when dribbling, then hit when he went up) and no whistle/nothing! If it was Gallo on the other end he would have been shooting an and-1

[Clyde_Style]

16 games into the season and we're "falling out of playoff eligibility rapidly?" C'mon Clyde, you're better than that. This team is a playoff team. A high seeded one? No...but a playoff team nonetheless.

Done any math lately my friend?

We could lose the next five games to close out January easily. That would be 6-15 or about a .300 winning percentage.

That means we'd have to play over .600 ball the rest of the way to sniff .500.

I'm not better than math.

Ok...but let's cross that bridge when/if we get there. See my post above.

That's in just over a week so its a short bridge. See you on the other side.

[Red Vines]

Slightly OT but does anyone else think Gallo should just go for the full Pauly D blowout?

[Marty McFly]

I'm not into this melo vs gallo thing. i loved gallo when he was here, and i wish him success in denver, but people need to stop acting like melo wasn't playing hurt; while others need to stop comparing melo for gallo as if that's all we traded for melo. we got a great player, and we gave up a **** of depth.

this team is a **** mess and to be quiet honest, i don't see, with the inclusion of baron, how much better we'll be. injuries, the compacted schedule, seriously, this is looking ugly for all of us.

[J0rdan4life42o]

For those that believed this would be the game where things turned around for this team...well, see, it takes time and gradual improvement before such a drastic change happens. I'm happy to say we saw some of that improvement last night, so that's a really good, positive sign to take away from the game. We saw good ball movement for some of the game and that sense of urgency that's been missing most of the season. It's nice to see the players starting to hold themselves accountable for the team's woes, but I think it needs to get to a point where the coaching staff starts holding these players accountable for the constant mistakes and deviation from the "system" continue doing. Because players holding themselves accountable for a loss is all really nice, but it's likely they go out the next night and keep making the same mistakes.

But I was encouraged from some of the things I saw last night. I'm getting less and less worried about Stoudemire. He hasn't diminished physically, he's just in desperate need of a guard who can get him into the flow of the offense, get him easy buckets which then ignites the rest of his game. I'm confident Davis can do this once he gets back, so we should be good there.

Sucks that Harrelson got hurt. He's probably our best man to man defender, he just has such great awareness on the defensive end, hurts losing him. We desperately need to add depth to this roster now. We virtually have no quality bigs to bring off the bench. Compound that with no playmaker until Davis comes back and we're in for a world of hurt as far as depth goes.

As for Gallo - he's everything we knew he was and could become, no surprise there and no surprise this Knicks team gives up another career night to an opponent. Getting ridiculous now.

Something isn't quite right with the team right now and how they are using and playing with STAT. I'm not sure what's going on but to see how STAT continually comes out to set picks and rolls to the basket, only to have his teammates completely ignore him 95% of the time is really baffling. The only player that I have seen really look for STAT in the p-n-r situations is Bibby. So its either that our Offensive players are so stupid that they have completely no clue how to run a p-n-r, or they are intentionally not going to STAT in those situations (half of which he is wide open or has an open lane to the basket).

Yep, I've also seen Shump try to get him involved - it's either not as easy as we think it is, or like you said, most of guards + Anthony aren't capable of working the pick and roll with Amare. Physically, he's more than fine. He looks to be in fantastic shape. He'll be alright - I know his jumper is off and he looks confused on the floor at times, but it becomes a domino effect when he's frozen out of the offense, isn't getting the ball on the move and his teammates simply aren't looking to set him up for any easy baskets. That would shatter most player's confidence and rhythm. He'll be fine.

[K_ick_God]

To summarize, Anthony is a great physical talent who can dominate at the NBA level - but is NOT a transcendent talent who tear your roster apart to acquire. If you acquire him, however, you likely must nonetheless shape your roster and system around him - and not magically expect that he will blend in with any old group of players. Unfortunately, by gutting your roster / future asset pool to acquire him, and concentrating all your money in three players, you are now ill equipped to easily reshape that roster.

What should become obvious now after watching Denver is that Denver would have been a reasonable team even without him - and that Andre Miller was likely the player who had the greatest impact on that team's turnaround eight years ago, inasmuch as Miller joined the Nuggets the very same year they drafted Anthony. Andre Miller at 35 remains an extremely effective old school point guard, much better than anyone the Knicks have had since the young Mark Jackson.

Bottom line, if you're gonna keep Anthony, this roster needs to be dramatically reshaped - but does management have either the savvy or assets necessary to accomplish that?

Really good post. I can't really take too much issue with anything here. The one thing I'd say though is that Melo and to a lesser extent Amar'e are "fungible" assets. I think you could find someone willing to trade 2-3 really good role players for either one if you decide to deal them.

There are also some creative ways to fill in the blanks to reshape the roster -- draft, signings, taking on salary. I think there is more flexibility than you do but you explain your position well/convincingly.

[Starksmadness]

No bingo. When you upgrade, you upgrade. I know everybody is emboldened by last night but one win (best game of Gallo's career and one of Moz's best games) does not change logic.

Chemistry IS important but chemistry for us is about coaching, PG play, and the fact that Amar'e is lost. If Amar'e can only play C and with an elite PG to thrive, are we supposed to not upgrade C and SF so that we can build around Amar'e and be a so-so team forever? You can't complement Amar'e and make him the featured guy and expect to win a title, not even if we could get CP3 at point.

If Amar'e is turning into a ghost, then send him packing. But you don't pass on Melo.

And for others to mention Pierce and Gallo together is ridic.

You and I have different views than in terms of what it takes to create a successful team. You seem to be more along the lines of an upgrade at all cost point of view that was shared by a former Piston playing GM of ours. I take more things into account when i want to saddle my team with a max contract. Such things as is that player a "true" franchise player, whats it going to cost us in terms of cap flexibility and contracts, does that player make others around him better and how does he fit within the team itself among other things. There are only a limited amount of max contract slots that are available so forgive me if im extremely aprehensive in giving one to top 12 player who plays little defense, is a ball stopper, doesnt make others around him better and whos had very little playoff succuss despite being on talented teams. Oh and we gotta trade every asset to get him.

Yeah. When you upgrade you upgrade. Well Marbury was an upgrade. So was Crawford, Z-bo and even curry. Sorry if i dont buy into the whole notion that when you upgrade a certain position its always in the best interest of your team. Expecially when you take into account what it cost you not only in players but also in cap room

[Red Vines]

We didn't gut our roster for Melo, we got back Melo AND Billups AND Anthony Carter AND Sheldon Williams AND Balkman, since then we flipped Billups for Tyson Chandler who has been great for us. The problem isn't that we "gutted" the team, the problem is that we lost our PG at the start of the season and overrated some of our role players.

[TKF]

But that can be fixed. Baron can create his own shot, we'll get role players who can score. Basically management overrated our role players this year. We just started constructing the team, it will come together.

forget baron!!! the guy just said in an interview that he wasn't sure he would every be able to play again.. until baron hits the floor and makes a difference, he is nothing at this point.. we can't count on that.... even then, see how desperate this situation has become.. the sad thing some of us saw this happenning last year!!

[K_ick_God]

We get it. You really are not a Gallo fan, but why do you say things like he is not an athlete? Sure he is. He is not Dominique Wilkins, but he gets around the court pretty well for a 6'10" guy. Wait a second, he's an NBA player and NBA players are athletes so I think that makes him .........hmmmm. an athlete!

I think I might just might be using the term "athlete" figuratively rather than literally, yes? He is an NBA athlete with sub-par athleticism. Gallo gets around the court worse than Mozgov who is quite a bit bigger and plays a true big man's game. That said, I've never said Gallo doesn't have some guard-like perimeter skills, I've said a few times he's a good dribbler with a very good power dribble, and that he's a patient/smart player. Obviously a 6-11 guy who can play like a guard is valuable. And if he continues to go to the line at such a high rate, he's a major offensive weapon.

But none of this makes him a good athlete as in - running, jumping, quickness, lift, explosion. He is not a good NBA athlete, period. People need to start looking at specific arguments and looking at discrete things that people say. To say Gallo is not a great athlete is not to say he's worthless or bad.

The only thing I said that some may view as unfair to Gallo is that I'm questioning if his ability to go to the line will/should continue because I don't think Gallo is able to finish these plays ... he's really shown no ability to. I said I think he's putting the cart before the horse which is rare -- he's not established himself as a great scorer but is still getting to the line like one. That is unusual. Maybe Gallo fans view this as unfair/harsh or me just hating on him, and I can see one thinking that, but it's a legitimate issue to raise: I've never seen a guy go to the line like this who has yet to establish himself as the top scorer on his team, let alone one of the better scorers in the league.

More power to him if it continues -- he'll be a really big option if he can rack up points at the line where he shoots a high % -- but I'm not going to censor myself either: Gallo's ability to draw fouls is a curious area that is worth discussing. THAT part of his game is, admittedly, like Paul Pierce (who is an offensive flopper). But Paul Pierce has accomplished about 100x what Gallo has accomplished in his career -- so with Pierce, while I don't like the flopping, I can understand him getting the calls.

[WhenWillItEnd]

You can argue Denver would have simply gotten better by just losing Melo for nothing FA. That remaining 16 mill in cap space would have helped them even more.

[K_ick_God]

But that can be fixed. Baron can create his own shot, we'll get role players who can score. Basically management overrated our role players this year. We just started constructing the team, it will come together.

forget baron!!! the guy just said in an interview that he wasn't sure he would every be able to play again.. until baron hits the floor and makes a difference, he is nothing at this point.. we can't count on that.... even then, see how desperate this situation has become.. the sad thing some of us saw this happenning last year!!

I think this is a false rumor TKF. I don't think Baron ever said anything of the sort.