Around the NBA part 2

[mpharris36]

I'm just saying the last ray of hope is the fact that if we still had Lin, his unselfish brand of basketball, personality, easily would have eliminated all the remaining personal agendas our team often still has in dire of moments/ in face of adversity.

couldn't be farther from the truth in my eyes. Whether its Lin's fault or not, there was a circus surrounding him here. And that circus was not conducive towards winning. If we struggled through a stretch people would claim the chemistry between he and Melo was off and that melo should defer to Lin.

We are playing well because we are about "winning" that is it that is all. We have no distractions.

And lets be honest Lin is a nice player. But he has been average this year. Harden has been ballin and Parsons has played phenomenal.

I mean Lin is not someone that is a "must have" player...he is a nice player

it the grand scheme of PG's they are so many quality PG's currently in the league. Guys like Vazquez, Lilliard, Conley, Hill, Dragic, Holiday, Curry are all PG's who have shown huge improvements and look to be really good players

Then you have your already top PG's in CP3, Parker, Westbrook, Irving, Rondo, Deron Willaims (even though he is having a bad season)

He is a decent player but he also isn't a pure point either, but lets be honest he is in the bottom half of PG's right now.

[ibraheim718]

I loved Lin here as well, but I've never seen an "unselfish" champion, and a team that hasn't even incurred a three game losing streak couldn't possibly have adversity.

I do wanna see what those guys do when they have to play more games against the West.

My most impressed player on the Rockets has been Chandler Parsons.

Cheap contract, huge production, and statistically is the second best player on the team.

In a team sport you can have "selfish" and "unselfish" players scattered throughout the roster... the teams identity and the coach's identity matter more than any single player.

[Wolfgang]

I'm just saying the last ray of hope is the fact that if we still had Lin, his unselfish brand of basketball, personality, easily would have eliminated all the remaining personal agendas our team often still has in dire of moments/ in face of adversity.

couldn't be farther from the truth in my eyes. Whether its Lin's fault or not, there was a circus surrounding him here. And that circus was not conducive towards winning. If we struggled through a stretch people would claim the chemistry between he and Melo was off and that melo should defer to Lin.

We are playing well because we are about "winning" that is it that is all. We have no distractions.

And lets be honest Lin is a nice player. But he has been average this year. Harden has been ballin and Parsons has played phenomenal.

I mean Lin is not someone that is a "must have" player...he is a nice player

it the grand scheme of PG's they are so many quality PG's currently in the league. Guys like Vazquez, Lilliard, Conley, Hill, Dragic, Holiday, Curry are all PG's who have shown huge improvements and look to be really good players

Then you have your already top PG's in CP3, Parker, Westbrook, Irving, Rondo, Deron Willaims (even though he is having a bad season)

He is a decent player but he also isn't a pure point either, but lets be honest he is in the bottom half of PG's right now.

*says he's not pure point*
*lists PG's who aren't pure point* :/

[Thugger HBC]

I loved Lin here as well, but I've never seen an "unselfish" champion, and a team that hasn't even incurred a three game losing streak couldn't possibly have adversity.

I do wanna see what those guys do when they have to play more games against the West.

My most impressed player on the Rockets has been Chandler Parsons.

Cheap contract, huge production, and statistically is the second best player on the team.

In a team sport you can have "selfish" and "unselfish" players scattered throughout the roster... the teams identity and the coach's identity matter more than any single player.

IDK about that totally, i agree with the identity portion, but the unselfish part i just dont see.

More times than none someone is gonna be that guy, not perse "selfish", but dominant and demanding, and everyone else will submit and provide support.

[mpharris36]

*says he's not pure point*
*lists PG's who aren't pure point* :/

they all avg almost the exact same # assists or more than Lin does but they all are BETTER all around players.

I even left guys like Lowry, Jennings, Walker who you can make a case for as well.

also forgot to put Lawson on the above young PG list as well

[Butch718]

We're 23-10 because we played the right way in most of those wins, but we still have players who tend to take matters into their own hands/ having personal agendas when things do not go their way, like Felton among league leaders at PG position in shot attempts, like Tyson not contesting shots, like Melo scoring 40-45 getting further from the system we played early in the year when we shared the wealth effortlessly.

The key to Rockets playing uptempo basketball is because they always make sure the open man has the ball, and it all started way back in November when "Lin was struggling big time" when all he did was setting the tempo/ standard that unselfish ball is the way they have to play. When he exploded for 38 pts in Spurs game, it kinda clicked for them, now they know Lin chooses to sacrifice his own scoring for the sake of ball-sharing, player-movement. The point here is Lin took initiative to sacrifice for the team, and when it's "proven" that iso-Harden (if you re-watched Rockets games in November you'd see they hardly ran) was not working for the team, and when his teammates saw for themselves what Lin was capable of doing (38 pts vs Spurs) they understand first hand what "sacrifice" means, how to do it, and why. This stuff does not show on Lin's mere regular season stats of "12 and 6". It's uncoachable. You'd think George Karl's all-time favorite player is his own superstar he coached like Shawn Kemp or Payton or Melo, but it was Nate McMillan. Some things that are really valuable don't show in stat sheets. The Rockets would not have won their previous 2 games without Lin even when he scored only single-digits in both, because of the team defense, spacing, and timely assists he provided late in those games.

I'm just saying the last ray of hope is the fact that if we still had Lin, his unselfish brand of basketball, personality, easily would have eliminated all the remaining personal agendas our team often still has in dire of moments/ in face of adversity.

Again, that's a sensationalized and romanticized narrative of what Lin brings to a team. I've watched a lot of Rockets games this year on my NBA package because I have Asik and Harden on my fantasy teams. Lin is part of their reason for the reason success, not the main reason. He's not this Godly like figure that you're making him out to be that just happens to rub everyone in the right direction.

Lin is no longer a Knick. Enough with these hypotheticals of what he would have brought to this team if he were still a Knick. He would have erased personal agendas? Last time I checked the only agenda these Knick players have is to win a championship this year. They're not perfect, but they've gotten the job done. It gets annoying when fanatical Lin supporters like yourself make him seem better than he is. It's equally as annoying as the fanatical Lin haters.

Like I said, I like Lin. I don't wish him ill-will like some of the people on this board that always poke fun whenever he has a bad game. I actually want him to succeed. But some of this crap has to stop.

[Wolfgang]

*says he's not pure point*
*lists PG's who aren't pure point* :/

they all avg almost the exact same # assists or more than Lin does but they all are BETTER all around players.

I even left guys like Lowry, Jennings, Walker who you can make a case for as well.

also forgot to put Lawson on the above young PG list as well

You have got to be trolling right now. I can't even believe what I'm reading. Why don't you come out and say he's the worst PG in the league while you're at it.

[ibraheim718]

I loved Lin here as well, but I've never seen an "unselfish" champion, and a team that hasn't even incurred a three game losing streak couldn't possibly have adversity.

I do wanna see what those guys do when they have to play more games against the West.

My most impressed player on the Rockets has been Chandler Parsons.

Cheap contract, huge production, and statistically is the second best player on the team.

In a team sport you can have "selfish" and "unselfish" players scattered throughout the roster... the teams identity and the coach's identity matter more than any single player.

IDK about that totally, i agree with the identity portion, but the unselfish part i just dont see.

More times than none someone is gonna be that guy, not perse "selfish", but dominant and demanding, and everyone else will submit and provide support.

I didn't read the long post you responded to. Why don't you tell me what you were saying.. I probably read it wrong... I was referring to how each player plays and how teams have different personalities scattered throughout.

[ibraheim718]

*says he's not pure point*
*lists PG's who aren't pure point* :/

they all avg almost the exact same # assists or more than Lin does but they all are BETTER all around players.

I even left guys like Lowry, Jennings, Walker who you can make a case for as well.

also forgot to put Lawson on the above young PG list as well

You have got to be trolling right now. I can't even believe what I'm reading. Why don't you come out and say he's the worst PG in the league while you're at it.

Mp Lin had a better january than pretty much all of those periphery PG's your comparing him to... go look at the numbers.

And Lawson might be a better scorer but that's about it... if they switched places Denver would have a better record than the RoX.

[mpharris36]

*says he's not pure point*
*lists PG's who aren't pure point* :/

they all avg almost the exact same # assists or more than Lin does but they all are BETTER all around players.

I even left guys like Lowry, Jennings, Walker who you can make a case for as well.

also forgot to put Lawson on the above young PG list as well

You have got to be trolling right now. I can't even believe what I'm reading. Why don't you come out and say he's the worst PG in the league while you're at it.

u must not understand term "trolling" - trolling would be making outlandish comments without backing up your argument. The fact that cannot debate my argument means that there is some validity to it.

Facts is Jeremy Lin is a nice player. He isn't a once in a life time player, and is not a can't miss type player. My point is that there are a TON and I mean a ton of young PG's in the NBA right now. And in my opinion he is in the lower half of that group.

where am I wrong in my train of though?

[ibraheim718]

u must not understand term "trolling" - trolling would be making outlandish comments without backing up your argument. The fact that cannot debate my argument means that there is some validity to it.

Facts is Jeremy Lin is a nice player. He isn't a once in a life time player, and is not a can't miss type player. My point is that there are a TON and I mean a ton of young PG's in the NBA right now. And in my opinion he is in the lower half of that group.

where am I wrong in my train of though?

For free? You rarely score like that outside of the draft.

[Thugger HBC]

I didn't read the long post you responded to. Why don't you tell me what you were saying.. I probably read it wrong... I was referring to how each player plays and how teams have different personalities scattered throughout.

You might have to force yourself to read that post, then I think you'll get what i mean.

It wasn't to say players aren't selfish and unselfish in itself, that would be silly to say.

[mpharris36]

Mp Lin had a better january than pretty much all of those periphery PG's your comparing him to... go look at the numbers.

And Lawson might be a better scorer but that's about it... if they switched places Denver would have a better record than the RoX.

i disagree whole heartily with the Lawson comment. The reason denver has had a mediocre record is because of there brutal schedule. 17 of there first 23 on the road is insane. They weathered that storm. THey have a similar record to houston and have played 6 less home games then houston.

also Lin has improved from his atrocious december i will give you that. but he has was too many "no show" games for my liking...also turns the ball over a little too much as well. He can improve but im going to take a lot of the other young PG's over him if it was up to me.

[omerome]

u must not understand term "trolling" - trolling would be making outlandish comments without backing up your argument. The fact that cannot debate my argument means that there is some validity to it.

Facts is Jeremy Lin is a nice player. He isn't a once in a life time player, and is not a can't miss type player. My point is that there are a TON and I mean a ton of young PG's in the NBA right now. And in my opinion he is in the lower half of that group.

where am I wrong in my train of though?

For free? You rarely score like that outside of the draft.

He wouldn't of been free any more if we wanted him this season.

[ibraheim718]

Mp Lin had a better january than pretty much all of those periphery PG's your comparing him to... go look at the numbers.

And Lawson might be a better scorer but that's about it... if they switched places Denver would have a better record than the RoX.

i disagree whole heartily with the Lawson comment. The reason denver has had a mediocre record is because of there brutal schedule. 17 of there first 23 on the road is insane. They weathered that storm. THey have a similar record to houston and have played 6 less home games then houston.

also Lin has improved from his atrocious december i will give you that. but he has was too many "no show" games for my liking...also turns the ball over a little too much as well. He can improve but im going to take a lot of the other young PG's over him if it was up to me.

All those guys you're mentioning turn the ball over more than Lin does... And Lin is top 5 in steals.

And no team's SOS is harder than Houston's

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerr ... ort/sosL10

[mpharris36]

u must not understand term "trolling" - trolling would be making outlandish comments without backing up your argument. The fact that cannot debate my argument means that there is some validity to it.

Facts is Jeremy Lin is a nice player. He isn't a once in a life time player, and is not a can't miss type player. My point is that there are a TON and I mean a ton of young PG's in the NBA right now. And in my opinion he is in the lower half of that group.

where am I wrong in my train of though?

For free? You rarely score like that outside of the draft.

determine free? he is making a money that would have put Dolan at a certain cap threshold which he wasn't willing to go over.

Also it free'd us from the "circus" that surrounded Lin. Now before you jump on me for claiming Lin created a "circus" he wasn't directly the reason of the circus but that doesn't deny there was won.

We free'd ourself from all distractions and i really see a team atmosphere here and it shows with out record.

[Thugger HBC]

I'll just pull a chair and listen because I dont know what you guys are discussing now.

[ibraheim718]

u must not understand term "trolling" - trolling would be making outlandish comments without backing up your argument. The fact that cannot debate my argument means that there is some validity to it.

Facts is Jeremy Lin is a nice player. He isn't a once in a life time player, and is not a can't miss type player. My point is that there are a TON and I mean a ton of young PG's in the NBA right now. And in my opinion he is in the lower half of that group.

where am I wrong in my train of though?

For free? You rarely score like that outside of the draft.

determine free? he is making a money that would have put Dolan at a certain cap threshold which he wasn't willing to go over.

Also it free'd us from the "circus" that surrounded Lin. Now before you jump on me for claiming Lin created a "circus" he wasn't directly the reason of the circus but that doesn't deny there was won.

We free'd ourself from all distractions and i really see a team atmosphere here and it shows with out record.

Free as in the dude didn't have a job and we signed him... Do you know how rare his situation is? Find me a guy that got the kind of pay raise he's gotten and that all things considered is giving a nice return on that pay raise? All those guys you're mentioning have had draft picks wasted on them. The mere fact that the guy is a starting PG on a team in playoff position in an extremely tough conference is enough to admit... yeah.. the guy's pretty good.

[mpharris36]

Mp Lin had a better january than pretty much all of those periphery PG's your comparing him to... go look at the numbers.

And Lawson might be a better scorer but that's about it... if they switched places Denver would have a better record than the RoX.

i disagree whole heartily with the Lawson comment. The reason denver has had a mediocre record is because of there brutal schedule. 17 of there first 23 on the road is insane. They weathered that storm. THey have a similar record to houston and have played 6 less home games then houston.

also Lin has improved from his atrocious december i will give you that. but he has was too many "no show" games for my liking...also turns the ball over a little too much as well. He can improve but im going to take a lot of the other young PG's over him if it was up to me.

All those guys you're mentioning turn the ball over more than Lin does... And Lin is top 5 in steals.

And no team's SOS is harder than Houston's

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerr ... ort/sosL10

Lin has the worse turnover ratio out of all the players that I mentioned.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/turnoverRatio/order/true

also Harden does a lot of the ball handling for that team...Lin is turning the ball over at a high rate for not having the ball that much.

[Thugger HBC]

Clippers are up by 38, but it literally feels like 100.