Moderators: HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36, j4remi
BugginOut wrote:LookToShoot wrote:Happy to see the Knicks back in the playoffs, but that’s about it. The NBA is a bad product. Positionless basketball is boring, low iq basketball.
Oh, and Randle is not a star player. He shouldn’t be handling the ball half the time. I don’t want to see him maxed.
Lmao where are all your haters when we are winning? All-NBA players get max contracts
justin12140 wrote:stuporman wrote:I'm going to go counter narrative and suggest that Thibs sticking with Elf is good for the Knicks in the long term.
It's obvious to fans, media and is evidenced by the stats that Elf has a negative influence on the Knicks when he is on the floor but Thibs loyalty in the face of doubting and scrutiny speaks volumes to other players thinking about the Knicks as a new home how he will stick by them if they struggle and the mob comes for them.
We see the missed shots, TOs and advanced stats groaning with every moment having to witness it but the players know about the inside the locker room and behind the scenes dynamic that we may not see outwardly. This speaks to them in a way we will never understand.
Even though it's incredibly frustrating watching the Knicks be handicapped at the start of every half I'm going to be patient with this situation because....well, I have zero input in what happens so effit, why incur angst for essentially something that effects almost nothing in my own life. It's a game.
You do remember Austin Rivers was buried on the bench just a few months ago right?
?
HarthorneWingo wrote:robillionaire wrote:F N 11 wrote:Yeah 5th seed is my target but we probably resting guys.
yeah thibs the notorious guy rester
Maybe he's mellowed some as he's aged. Like me.
stuporman wrote:justin12140 wrote:stuporman wrote:I'm going to go counter narrative and suggest that Thibs sticking with Elf is good for the Knicks in the long term.
It's obvious to fans, media and is evidenced by the stats that Elf has a negative influence on the Knicks when he is on the floor but Thibs loyalty in the face of doubting and scrutiny speaks volumes to other players thinking about the Knicks as a new home how he will stick by them if they struggle and the mob comes for them.
We see the missed shots, TOs and advanced stats groaning with every moment having to witness it but the players know about the inside the locker room and behind the scenes dynamic that we may not see outwardly. This speaks to them in a way we will never understand.
Even though it's incredibly frustrating watching the Knicks be handicapped at the start of every half I'm going to be patient with this situation because....well, I have zero input in what happens so effit, why incur angst for essentially something that effects almost nothing in my own life. It's a game.
You do remember Austin Rivers was buried on the bench just a few months ago right?
You do remember he started out buried on the bench, right?
Once Rose showed up and IQ showed out he was freed through trade from his misery of the role on the bench he signed up for and after release was able to get some playing time with an injury racked playoff team.
Players around the league are noticing the energy and change in the Knicks, not every player wants to be a part of that and those are ones the Knicks shouldn't want as part of it either.
F N 11 wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:robillionaire wrote:
yeah thibs the notorious guy rester
Maybe he's mellowed some as he's aged. Like me.
Bullock and Rose listed as questionable is not a cowinkidink.
justin12140 wrote:stuporman wrote:justin12140 wrote:You do remember Austin Rivers was buried on the bench just a few months ago right?
You do remember he started out buried on the bench, right?
Once Rose showed up and IQ showed out he was freed through trade from his misery of the role on the bench he signed up for and after release was able to get some playing time with an injury racked playoff team.
Players around the league are noticing the energy and change in the Knicks, not every player wants to be a part of that and those are ones the Knicks shouldn't want as part of it either.
Rivers wasn’t buried to start the year. He was injured. He played every game he was available for up until Rose joined the team.
But I don’t disagree with your point about the energy of this team, I just don’t think that’s what you were arguing originally. What I was I was disagreeing with though was your point about players wanting to come here cause Payton gets a long leash when he sucks. Guys like that exist across the league. I guarantee you there’s at least 10-15 other teams / fan bases with their own versions of Payton (bledsoe, Coby White before Lavine went out, Reggie Jackson, etc)
? mpharris36 wrote:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/victory-the-podcast/id1517406283
victory podcast had Julius on it. It was a good listen for anyone that is interested.
The line that I found interesting is they were talking about Derrick Rose and asked Julius he's got to be starting soon and Julius responded with "talk to thibs"
stuporman wrote:Rivers doesn't sign for one year guaranteed deal for less than $2mil if he expects to be more than a bench player, that's veteran mentor money he signed for. Seems pretty straight forward but you sure are trying to turn it into more than that
stuporman wrote:That was my point about Thibs backing his players and the energy around the team now. For as badly Elf has played he still is starting PG for a winning team, a season that has completely turned around a floundering franchise and exceeded expectations regardless of whatever we think of him.
My point certainly was not the straw man you made up about players wanting to be here because guys who suck have long leashes and other teams have them with fans bases or something. Not sure where you are going with that stuff. Pretty sad attempt to twist it but I wasn't fooled by it.
I'm going to go counter narrative and suggest that Thibs sticking with Elf is good for the Knicks in the long term. Thibs loyalty in the face of doubting and scrutiny speaks volumes to other players thinking about the Knicks as a new home how he will stick by them if they struggle and the mob comes for them.
LookToShoot wrote:thebuzzardman wrote:LookToShoot wrote:Happy to see the Knicks back in the playoffs, but that’s about it. The NBA is a bad product. Positionless basketball is boring, low iq basketball.
Oh, and Randle is not a star player. He shouldn’t be handling the ball half the time. I don’t want to see him maxed.
Yes, how I long for the days when teams dumped the ball into the post 50 times a game
50 times is better than 0. Playing hot potato with the ball until someone shoots a three is is low iq basketball, only young people seem to think a glorified pickup game is entertaining. You might as well watch the Harlem Globetrotters play.
Very few teams actually run plays... penetrate and kick out for a three, set a million picks for a three, running to the three point line on a fast break because they don't know what to do inside the paint.. no real skill is required. Guys don't know how to shoot in mid range, don't know how to defend or play in the post, they don't cut. There is no strategy to the way they play. Low iq basketball that only a simpleton would enjoy.
justin12140 wrote:stuporman wrote:Rivers doesn't sign for one year guaranteed deal for less than $2mil if he expects to be more than a bench player, that's veteran mentor money he signed for. Seems pretty straight forward but you sure are trying to turn it into more than that
I brought up Rivers because you made the point that Thib's loyalty to Payton would be an attractive selling point to free agents. I obviously don't think it would be and believe you could point to Rivers tenure as the poster child for the exact opposite of what you were preaching. Yeah he signed a cheap contract, but so did our entire roster lol. All of our guards sans RJ & Rose are making under 6mil. I guarantee Rivers would not have signed here if he knew he'd be riding the bench for months (as evidenced by his buyout & Berman's repeated allusions to River's unhappiness while he was here)
stuporman wrote:That was my point about Thibs backing his players and the energy around the team now. For as badly Elf has played he still is starting PG for a winning team, a season that has completely turned around a floundering franchise and exceeded expectations regardless of whatever we think of him.
My point certainly was not the straw man you made up about players wanting to be here because guys who suck have long leashes and other teams have them with fans bases or something. Not sure where you are going with that stuff. Pretty sad attempt to twist it but I wasn't fooled by it.
You verbatim said:I'm going to go counter narrative and suggest that Thibs sticking with Elf is good for the Knicks in the long term. Thibs loyalty in the face of doubting and scrutiny speaks volumes to other players thinking about the Knicks as a new home how he will stick by them if they struggle and the mob comes for them.
All I was saying is I don't agree with that logic because no one thinks like that and literally every coach does this. Its certainly not something unique to Thibs/Payton. I could make the exact same argument with Reggie Jackson in LA or Eric Bledsoe in NOLA. Do you think guys will be clamoring to play for Tyronn Lue or Stan Van Gundy because of their loyalty to their starting PGs? Obviously not lol.
If you want to say FA's are going to be attracted to the energy, city, and the team playing well cool. I agree with that. It wasn't what I was disagreeing with. I was disagreeing with Thibs unconditionally starting Payton somehow being a free agent lure lmao. With that said, good night!
? thebuzzardman wrote:Knicks lose a game and people are whipping out narratives they've been waiting all season to use
?
Reign23 wrote:I tried to not overreact to frank yesterday.... but couldn't.
this was the perfect "what could be" smokes game.
incredibly switchable on d (this was his best defensive game of the season by far), moves the ball well and hits open threes.
it is this idea of him, that made me a fan since we drafted him, I just don't know why he can't bring it more often.
this could have been his last real minutes with the knicks..
stuporman wrote:justin12140 wrote:stuporman wrote:Rivers doesn't sign for one year guaranteed deal for less than $2mil if he expects to be more than a bench player, that's veteran mentor money he signed for. Seems pretty straight forward but you sure are trying to turn it into more than that
I brought up Rivers because you made the point that Thib's loyalty to Payton would be an attractive selling point to free agents. I obviously don't think it would be and believe you could point to Rivers tenure as the poster child for the exact opposite of what you were preaching. Yeah he signed a cheap contract, but so did our entire roster lol. All of our guards sans RJ & Rose are making under 6mil. I guarantee Rivers would not have signed here if he knew he'd be riding the bench for months (as evidenced by his buyout & Berman's repeated allusions to River's unhappiness while he was here)
Rivers got 'out loyaled' by Rose and out played by him, too....so that's not proving anything and anyone who believes Berman has some suspect trust placement.stuporman wrote:That was my point about Thibs backing his players and the energy around the team now. For as badly Elf has played he still is starting PG for a winning team, a season that has completely turned around a floundering franchise and exceeded expectations regardless of whatever we think of him.
My point certainly was not the straw man you made up about players wanting to be here because guys who suck have long leashes and other teams have them with fans bases or something. Not sure where you are going with that stuff. Pretty sad attempt to twist it but I wasn't fooled by it.
You verbatim said:I'm going to go counter narrative and suggest that Thibs sticking with Elf is good for the Knicks in the long term. Thibs loyalty in the face of doubting and scrutiny speaks volumes to other players thinking about the Knicks as a new home how he will stick by them if they struggle and the mob comes for them.
All I was saying is I don't agree with that logic because no one thinks like that and literally every coach does this. Its certainly not something unique to Thibs/Payton. I could make the exact same argument with Reggie Jackson in LA or Eric Bledsoe in NOLA. Do you think guys will be clamoring to play for Tyronn Lue or Stan Van Gundy because of their loyalty to their starting PGs? Obviously not lol.
If you want to say FA's are going to be attracted to the energy, city, and the team playing well cool. I agree with that. It wasn't what I was disagreeing with. I was disagreeing with Thibs unconditionally starting Payton somehow being a free agent lure lmao. With that said, good night!
Again, trying to isolate the one thing you want to strawman doesn't fool me....if you separate the energy, the change of culture and yes, the winning from the backing his players to make a point you have no point.
stuporman wrote:thebuzzardman wrote:Knicks lose a game and people are whipping out narratives they've been waiting all season to use
You whip out your narrative every chance you get win or lose....
cooch2584 wrote:Did anyone notice that AD didnt play last night??? I told you we kicked the **** outta him with our d.