PG: Knicks-Hawks aka 1,2,3,Cancun! (Hawks win series 4-1)

[YouthMovement]

and even though he scored more, julius might have played his worst game last night. he tried to get over being shook by forcing things and it was nothing but bad shots and turnovers.

Yea, he was horrible all series. The turnovers were very costly...he could barely make basic passes. Then was out of control emotionally. It was bad.

yeah. my feeling is one of disgust to be honest. i never imagined it would go down like this.

stephen a was on first take saying guys texted him last night "i'm supposed to want to play with julius randle?"

[K_ick_God]

It’s up to the coach to not let Randle play with as much freedom but maybe Thibs has downsized his willingness to intervene.

Whatever it is that was painful to watch.

[CharlesOakley]

I would love to see a good starting point guard and Randle setting screens at the top of the key to start our action. We need some of that Stockton/Malone vibe. Our screen setters aren't threats on offense which means they don't create as much spacing as they should.

[Clyde Frazier]

thibs could have been better but the guys who were on the cover of slam magazine were awful. they're any good and it's a different series.

the thing you can most blame thibs for is overachieving during the regular season and making it seem like the team was better than it really was.

Yea, I can't blame Thibs for that. No adjustment could have made up for most of our main guys underperforming as they did.

I'm not blaming him...but he wasn't good either. Bullock had zero chance to guard Trae but he refused to adjust. I think only 15 and 13 mins a game for IQ and Toppin in the series was criminal...considering you got nothing from Noel/Burks(outside of game 1) and Bullock. There were minutes to give them.

To not even try your best perimeter defender on Trae all series outside of one possession in game 1 is criminal as well.

Then to not go at Trae Young at any point in the series was very uncreative.

Thibs stubbornness came back to bite us...yes Randle and RJ playing better could have helped us more...but that alone wouldn't have won this series...we were seriously outclassed in every phase.

It really was crazy not even giving frank a shot on Trae. Thibs set up bullock to fail with that assignment. He's a strong committed defender but simply doesn't have the foot speed to stick with trae. How do you throw frank on him for the most important possession of the game *cold* and not trust him for spot minutes? Obi and IQ certainly weren't perfect in their minutes. It's a disconnect I'll never understand.

[god shammgod]

Yea, he was horrible all series. The turnovers were very costly...he could barely make basic passes. Then was out of control emotionally. It was bad.

yeah. my feeling is one of disgust to be honest. i never imagined it would go down like this.

stephen a was on first take saying guys texted him last night "i'm supposed to want to play with julius randle?"

exactly what i said other guys around the league would say. next year all the teams are gonna talk sh*t to randle because they saw atl do it and get away with it. the same thing happened to pg and he wasn't nearly this bad. he's gonna be a whipping boy next year.

[duetta]

A PG is important but also a stretch five. We needed to be able to drag Capella away from the basket.

[mpharris36]

yeah. my feeling is one of disgust to be honest. i never imagined it would go down like this.

We haven't been to the post season in so long you forget how intense and keyed in teams are. If you don't have counters to a team taking away you go to move you will get exposed. Randle had zero answer all series and its concerning because the man had a dream type regular season and still was completely neutralized in the post season. So that has to be in the back of our minds in building this team going forward. To just write it off as a bad series would be silly. He was completely taken out of the whole series and mentally was taken out.

I had no problem losing the series...but I wanted to leave this series with some confidence we have some pieces (not just for the regular season) but for the post season...I'm not sure I'm confident in anyone

the only guys you can be confident in is derrick rose and taj and they're too old to care about.
iq and obi had some moments here and there and they're rookies so they get passes. everybody else....i'm highly disgusted

Agreed and the problem with the guys you listed...the two guys are old...and the other are two are going to be involved in a trade (the knicks wants to trade for someone)...someone has to going out in a trade. Randle and RJ were the two guys that were locks to be here IMO.

[god shammgod]

A PG is important but also a stretch five. We needed to be able to drag Capella away from the basket.

if we have to gameplan to beat the damn hawks, tear the whole thing up

[K_ick_God]

Misery loves company.

Clips in danger.
Heat.
Lakers look very old suddenly and then maybe the most depressing/amusing one:

“Day to day with a meniscus tear” - what does that even mean lol.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I'm not blaming him...but he wasn't good either. Bullock had zero chance to guard Trae but he refused to adjust. I think only 15 mins all 15 and 13 mins a game for IQ and Toppin in the series was criminal...considering you got nothing from Noel/Burks(outside of game 1) and Bullock. There were minutes to give them.

To not even try your best perimeter defender on Trae all series outside of one possession in game 1 is criminal as well.

Then to not go at Trae Young at any point in the series was very uncreative.

Thibs stubbornness came back to bite us...yes Randle and RJ playing better could have helped us more...but that alone wouldn't have one this series...we were seriously outclassed in every phase.

Yea, there were things that I wanted to see done differently too and they could have helped. Thibs is stubborn for better and worse. There are def some traits that Thibs has as coach that are maddening.

I mean the man started Elfrid Payton all year...but the playoffs are all about adjustments...I'm just not sure thats the type of coach he is.

That was a huge failure. We needed to figure out who was best as our starting PG whether it be Rose, Burks, IQ or even Frank...we all knew it wasn't Payton. Making that change this late may have thrown off the chemistry. We also really needed Quickley in this series and he just wasnt integrated enough.

But can't deny we overachieved during the regular season. There are def some things I love. Thibs has shown progress since Minn. Just hope everyone can learn from this one.

[god shammgod]

Misery loves company.

Clips in danger.
Heat.
Lakers look very old suddenly and then maybe the most depressing/amusing one:

“Day to day with a meniscus tear” - what does that even mean lol.

it means he won't be back anytime soon but they don't want to say it

[god shammgod]

We haven't been to the post season in so long you forget how intense and keyed in teams are. If you don't have counters to a team taking away you go to move you will get exposed. Randle had zero answer all series and its concerning because the man had a dream type regular season and still was completely neutralized in the post season. So that has to be in the back of our minds in building this team going forward. To just write it off as a bad series would be silly. He was completely taken out of the whole series and mentally was taken out.

I had no problem losing the series...but I wanted to leave this series with some confidence we have some pieces (not just for the regular season) but for the post season...I'm not sure I'm confident in anyone

the only guys you can be confident in is derrick rose and taj and they're too old to care about.
iq and obi had some moments here and there and they're rookies so they get passes. everybody else....i'm highly disgusted

Agreed and the problem with the guys you listed...the two guys are old...and the other are two are going to be involved in a trade (the knicks wants to trade for someone)...someone has to going out in a trade. Randle and RJ were the two guys that were locks to be here IMO.

well then the fire leon rose watch is on

[robillionaire]

Great regular season but we were outclassed, outmanned, and outcoached badly vs the Hawks.

Lot more concerning questions about our future. Can we still trend upwards? Sure can. But there is a little more uncertainty about what we have then about 10 days or so.

Not really imo, regardless of how good Randle was this year, I don't think anyone thought he was a true #1 player on a playoff team, he should be a #3 on a great team, a #2 on a good team. RJ is 20 and got his first taste of the playoffs, he improved his game tremendously from his rookie season. We need more talent, nobody thought otherwise. The knicks have everything going for them to improve their talent level, starting with the most cap space, tons and tons of picks, and now a foundation and culture established

if you don't have concerns about Randle going forward I don't know what to tell you. 1st option, 2nd option, 3rd option, I don't care. He was so bad in the 5 games its hard to even put it into words. If you feel comfortable committing long term to him after that post season bless your heart. I'm not saying don't pay the man...I'm just saying if you don't have some reservations after this series you aren't human. He was completely taken out of everything he wanted to do (fairly easily too). I don't know if pushing him down a peg on the totem pole completely alleviates all our issues.

I don't have any concerns because I'm not surprised with the way it worked out. I was saying all season I thought he was being overrated, and I like Randle.

Now if you go to the thread about his extension, a lot of people were saying Randle would refuse an extension and wait until next summer so he could get a 200+ million supermax. You still think he's going to do that, or that the Knicks are going to pay him that? Hell no. Hopefully this leads to him signing his cheaper extension. We could always trade him after that but you have to retain an all-star imo

[Sprewell4Three]

A PG is important but also a stretch five. We needed to be able to drag Capella away from the basket.

if we have to gameplan to beat the damn hawks, tear the whole thing up

The Knicks should have just went small and put Randle at the 5. This to make Capela work. Knicks need a stretch PF /C that not only can shoot but drive into the lane. Oh that’s right we have that with Obi already. Unfortunately Thibs was too stubborn to make adjustments and go small with Randle at the 5.

[3toheadmelo]

A PG is important but also a stretch five. We needed to be able to drag Capella away from the basket.

Mitch for Myles Turner

[GONYK]

Great regular season but we were outclassed, outmanned, and outcoached badly vs the Hawks.

Lot more concerning questions about our future. Can we still trend upwards? Sure can. But there is a little more uncertainty about what we have then about 10 days or so.

Not really imo, regardless of how good Randle was this year, I don't think anyone thought he was a true #1 player on a playoff team, he should be a #3 on a great team, a #2 on a good team. RJ is 20 and got his first taste of the playoffs, he improved his game tremendously from his rookie season. We need more talent, nobody thought otherwise. The knicks have everything going for them to improve their talent level, starting with the most cap space, tons and tons of picks, and now a foundation and culture established

if you don't have concerns about Randle going forward I don't know what to tell you. 1st option, 2nd option, 3rd option, I don't care. He was so bad in the 5 games its hard to even put it into words. If you feel comfortable committing long term to him after that post season bless your heart. I'm not saying don't pay the man...I'm just saying if you don't have some reservations after this series you aren't human. He was completely taken out of everything he wanted to do (fairly easily too). I don't know if pushing him down a peg on the totem pole completely alleviates all our issues.

It wasn't just the shooting. He self-immolated. His body language was terrible. He completely lost the plot defensively. He stopped running down the court in transition defense because he was too busy arguing with the refs. He stopped trusting his teammates. He was getting chippy and almost starting fights. He let the opponent see him bleed and that's inexcusable from your leader.

It was as bad as bad can be.

[K_ick_God]

Gotta be honest I still feel like the reffing is a big part of this. It makes your team energy totally die. They *noticeably* stop working on defense because ... what’s the point even.

All Trae needs to do is glide in and he’s highly likely to get a call.

It suffocates competition.

[mpharris36]

yeah. my feeling is one of disgust to be honest. i never imagined it would go down like this.

stephen a was on first take saying guys texted him last night "i'm supposed to want to play with julius randle?"

exactly what i said other guys around the league would say. next year all the teams are gonna talk sh*t to randle because they saw atl do it and get away with it. the same thing happened to pg and he wasn't nearly this bad. he's gonna be a whipping boy next year.

I mean can you blame them...guys want to win. They don't care about regular season production. That is why Randle playing well was always more important then the team success in this post season.

[god shammgod]

A PG is important but also a stretch five. We needed to be able to drag Capella away from the basket.

Mitch for Myles Turner

randle for anyone from the local ymca

[Deeeez Knicks]

A PG is important but also a stretch five. We needed to be able to drag Capella away from the basket.

if we have to gameplan to beat the damn hawks, tear the whole thing up

The Knicks should have just went small and put Randle at the 5. This to make Capela work. Knicks need a stretch PF /C that not only can shoot but drive into the lane. Oh that’s right we have that with Obi already. Unfortunately Thibs was too stubborn to make adjustments and go small with Randle at the 5.

That was something i wanted to see all season.

Thibs stuck with what worked, and it did help us win regular season games and build chemistry. But experimenting with different things could have helped in this kind of series to make adjustments so it works both ways