Ex-Knicks, Sh**posts, and Old Trades - OH MY!

[rajajackal]

Long story short, NY-Randle is better than MIN-KAT

...wait, which NY Randle are you referring to?

chasson. thought that was obvious

[Wildcat]

It's simple. Both tangibly and intangibly

KAT >>>>>> Randle

They will figure it out, but such a huge downgrade in talent and chemistry will take some time for the coach and team to adjust.

They might figure it out. When a locker room goes bad and you have an emotionally unstable person feeling outcast in that situation, there is no guarantee it will get resolved soon enough to right the team. During the black cloud season Randle had here, nobody could get through to him. He was moody, nasty, intimidating and disrespectful towards his teammates and the coaches. Only when he got counseling during the off-season did he come back with a meditation coach and a refreshed attitude. It can be tough to adjust in mid-stream for a guy like that.

As Ant was saying, some guys on the team are front-runners...Randle being one of those guys.

As long as he can pad his stats and they are playing well enough to not fall out of the playoff picture with fans booing, media criticizing, etc. he will not have a meltdown and the Wolves should be fine.

I mean, if we're going to pull a quote, get the full context:

"We as a team, including myself, we all was frontrunners tonight. It was some bull, for sure."

Follow-up by saying:

"I think it’s we soft as hell as a team, internally. Not to the other team, but internally, we soft. We can’t talk to each other. Just a bunch of little kids."

And this quote is from losing to NYK:

"We don't have s**t on offense. We don't have no identity. We know I'm gonna shoot a bunch of shots, we know Ju gonna shoot a bunch of shots and that's all we know. We don't really know anything else. It's not on the coaches at all. It's on us. We're out there playing."

This is a shot on Finch. This trade was such a last minute deal that Finch hasn't developed his playbook to account for Randle's (and Divo's) efficiencies and minimize their deficiencies. Even on that comeback win against Houston -- which was probably their best feel-good win of the season -- that wasn't a W earned by Finch, but by those players on the court because they were playing to their strengths and not having Randle for instance chilling in the corner ala MIN-KAT. That lineup that finished the game is their best lineup.

[Guano]

Chanel is 100% plotting revolution

Let me know when Chanel.

I will follow.

[Wildcat]

Long story short, NY-Randle is better than MIN-KAT

...wait, which NY Randle are you referring to?

I happen to think Randle's 2 seasons with JB are his best seasons. Injuries mucked it up.

[Iron Mantis]

They might figure it out. When a locker room goes bad and you have an emotionally unstable person feeling outcast in that situation, there is no guarantee it will get resolved soon enough to right the team. During the black cloud season Randle had here, nobody could get through to him. He was moody, nasty, intimidating and disrespectful towards his teammates and the coaches. Only when he got counseling during the off-season did he come back with a meditation coach and a refreshed attitude. It can be tough to adjust in mid-stream for a guy like that.

As Ant was saying, some guys on the team are front-runners...Randle being one of those guys.

As long as he can pad his stats and they are playing well enough to not fall out of the playoff picture with fans booing, media criticizing, etc. he will not have a meltdown and the Wolves should be fine.

I mean, if we're going to pull a quote, get the full context:

"We as a team, including myself, we all was frontrunners tonight. It was some bull, for sure."

Follow-up by saying:

"I think it’s we soft as hell as a team, internally. Not to the other team, but internally, we soft. We can’t talk to each other. Just a bunch of little kids."

And this quote is from losing to NYK:

"We don't have s**t on offense. We don't have no identity. We know I'm gonna shoot a bunch of shots, we know Ju gonna shoot a bunch of shots and that's all we know. We don't really know anything else. It's not on the coaches at all. It's on us. We're out there playing."

This is a shot on Finch. This trade was such a last minute deal that Finch hasn't developed his playbook to account for Randle's (and Divo's) efficiencies and minimize their deficiencies. Even on that comeback win against Houston -- which was probably their best feel-good win of the season -- that wasn't a W earned by Finch, but by those players on the court because they were playing to their strengths and not having Randle for instance chilling in the corner ala MIN-KAT. That lineup that finished the game is their best lineup.

Doesn't seem like a shot at Finch when he makes it a point to say it's not on the coaches.

Overall, IDC to go back and forth anymore about why the Wolves are underperforming.

They got Randle and now they are worse than last year. They're struggling to stay above .500 and Randle is their problem now. Without Randle on my team my Knicks are on a roll. I'm thankful for the far superior KAT.

[Clyde_Style]

They might figure it out. When a locker room goes bad and you have an emotionally unstable person feeling outcast in that situation, there is no guarantee it will get resolved soon enough to right the team. During the black cloud season Randle had here, nobody could get through to him. He was moody, nasty, intimidating and disrespectful towards his teammates and the coaches. Only when he got counseling during the off-season did he come back with a meditation coach and a refreshed attitude. It can be tough to adjust in mid-stream for a guy like that.

As Ant was saying, some guys on the team are front-runners...Randle being one of those guys.

As long as he can pad his stats and they are playing well enough to not fall out of the playoff picture with fans booing, media criticizing, etc. he will not have a meltdown and the Wolves should be fine.

I mean, if we're going to pull a quote, get the full context:

"We as a team, including myself, we all was frontrunners tonight. It was some bull, for sure."

Follow-up by saying:

"I think it’s we soft as hell as a team, internally. Not to the other team, but internally, we soft. We can’t talk to each other. Just a bunch of little kids."

And this quote is from losing to NYK:

"We don't have s**t on offense. We don't have no identity. We know I'm gonna shoot a bunch of shots, we know Ju gonna shoot a bunch of shots and that's all we know. We don't really know anything else. It's not on the coaches at all. It's on us. We're out there playing."

This is a shot on Finch. This trade was such a last minute deal that Finch hasn't developed his playbook to account for Randle's (and Divo's) efficiencies and minimize their deficiencies. Even on that comeback win against Houston -- which was probably their best feel-good win of the season -- that wasn't a W earned by Finch, but by those players on the court because they were playing to their strengths and not having Randle for instance chilling in the corner ala MIN-KAT. That lineup that finished the game is their best lineup.

After Randle was traded there was a video of him goofing around at training camp with the younger Wolves players and my immediate response was Minny might be a really goofy and immature team. Ant saying they have some kind of adolescent communication issues matches up with that fleeting impression I had. If a team can't air out their issues amongst one another, there's only so much the coaches can do.

[KnicksGadfly]

Long story short, NY-Randle is better than MIN-KAT

...wait, which NY Randle are you referring to?

I happen to think Randle's 2 seasons with JB are his best seasons. Injuries mucked it up.

I still have Bubble Randle above them all, especially because that's the last time he really tried on defense, but I don't think there's an argument for Randle versus KAT last year.

I think that's also played out by the fact that the Knicks added DDV and a pick to a Randle deal for KAT. If Randle was really better these past two years, that should also be explained.

[Wildcat]

It's simple. Both tangibly and intangibly

KAT >>>>>> Randle

They will figure it out, but such a huge downgrade in talent and chemistry will take some time for the coach and team to adjust.

I would disagree that the issues aren't talent, but structure and Finch's inability to adjust. Even if Randle is a short-term teammate. There is no creativity in his playbook. He's quite literally running the same plays as if KAT was out there. Conley can't initiate offense. And T-Wolves are fixated with trying to get Divo to run the point.

Long story short, NY-Randle is better than MIN-KAT, but NY-KAT is better than MIN-Randle. Nobody with a straight face can tell me they were expecting KAT to shine at C.

If you remember some of our points from the "Randle's future", "Is Kat really gonna be worse to watch than Randle?", and "Trades and Transactions Thread Cont'd - Where the Center At?" threads, KAT shining at C was the whole crux of our argument as to why we needed to trade for him.

What's he's doing at C is what we proud KAT supporters expected.

As for Finch, That same coach just took them to the WCF. Antman has been complaining about spacing. Randle isn't easy to fit into any modern starting lineup on a contender.

I don't watch the Wolves enough to know all the nuances of what their coach does, but the Wolves fans are annoyed that the coach isn't starting Naz over Randle, they want Randle traded yesterday, and there's reports he's on the trading block.

Haven't heard any buzz about the coach being in the hot seat yet. Of course that could quickly change...

And no...no iteration of Randle is better than any version of KAT.

That's bull and you know it. You were expecting someone to spread the floor to help others. You were not expecting a legitimate MVP candidate. No one was expecting him to have career highs in 4 statistic catalogues.

As I've always said, I watch more T-Wolves games than any other team not named NYK. I probably watched about 15 games this season. Randle has his supporters, just like he'll have his non-supporters. KAT wasn't universally loved. In fact, he was getting ripped into for his Dallas dub. With the fans, it's a little bit of the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

But at the end of the day, Finch is the problem. I watch enough, and read enough on this team to know that without my brand loyalty blinding me to it. Rudy/Randle do not work. Reid/Randle, however, does.

And I'm never going to agree on all KAT iterations are better, so let's just move on from that.

[Wildcat]

...wait, which NY Randle are you referring to?

I happen to think Randle's 2 seasons with JB are his best seasons. Injuries mucked it up.

I still have Bubble Randle above them all, especially because that's the last time he really tried on defense, but I don't think there's an argument for Randle versus KAT last year.

I think that's also played out by the fact that the Knicks added DDV and a pick to a Randle deal for KAT. If Randle was really better these past two years, that should also be explained.

I do agree Randle trying on defense was a good, but him playing off someone like JB made him better overall.

Listen, regardless of your stance on Randle v. KAT, the trade was always going to be a 2 for 1 deal because of salary purposes. You could probably make the argument that a pick didn't need to be included. As many of the beat writers reported, there was legitimate concern with their C position because T-Wolves made it clear that they wanted Divo apart of the deal way back at the draft. If you put 2 and 2 together, I think once the Knicks knew Robinson was going to be out longer than reported to the public, that was the time to go with the KAT trade.

[Wildcat]

As Ant was saying, some guys on the team are front-runners...Randle being one of those guys.

As long as he can pad his stats and they are playing well enough to not fall out of the playoff picture with fans booing, media criticizing, etc. he will not have a meltdown and the Wolves should be fine.

I mean, if we're going to pull a quote, get the full context:

"We as a team, including myself, we all was frontrunners tonight. It was some bull, for sure."

Follow-up by saying:

"I think it’s we soft as hell as a team, internally. Not to the other team, but internally, we soft. We can’t talk to each other. Just a bunch of little kids."

And this quote is from losing to NYK:

"We don't have s**t on offense. We don't have no identity. We know I'm gonna shoot a bunch of shots, we know Ju gonna shoot a bunch of shots and that's all we know. We don't really know anything else. It's not on the coaches at all. It's on us. We're out there playing."

This is a shot on Finch. This trade was such a last minute deal that Finch hasn't developed his playbook to account for Randle's (and Divo's) efficiencies and minimize their deficiencies. Even on that comeback win against Houston -- which was probably their best feel-good win of the season -- that wasn't a W earned by Finch, but by those players on the court because they were playing to their strengths and not having Randle for instance chilling in the corner ala MIN-KAT. That lineup that finished the game is their best lineup.

After Randle was traded there was a video of him goofing around at training camp with the younger Wolves players and my immediate response was Minny might be a really goofy and immature team. Ant saying they have some kind of adolescent communication issues matches up with that fleeting impression I had. If a team can't air out their issues amongst one another, there's only so much the coaches can do.

They did the same thing last season. I mean, look at our team during post-games after a W. That doesn't strike you as goofy? Do we think Thibs is being tuned out?

[Iron Mantis]

I would disagree that the issues aren't talent, but structure and Finch's inability to adjust. Even if Randle is a short-term teammate. There is no creativity in his playbook. He's quite literally running the same plays as if KAT was out there. Conley can't initiate offense. And T-Wolves are fixated with trying to get Divo to run the point.

Long story short, NY-Randle is better than MIN-KAT, but NY-KAT is better than MIN-Randle. Nobody with a straight face can tell me they were expecting KAT to shine at C.

If you remember some of our points from the "Randle's future", "Is Kat really gonna be worse to watch than Randle?", and "Trades and Transactions Thread Cont'd - Where the Center At?" threads, KAT shining at C was the whole crux of our argument as to why we needed to trade for him.

What's he's doing at C is what we proud KAT supporters expected.

As for Finch, That same coach just took them to the WCF. Antman has been complaining about spacing. Randle isn't easy to fit into any modern starting lineup on a contender.

I don't watch the Wolves enough to know all the nuances of what their coach does, but the Wolves fans are annoyed that the coach isn't starting Naz over Randle, they want Randle traded yesterday, and there's reports he's on the trading block.

Haven't heard any buzz about the coach being in the hot seat yet. Of course that could quickly change...

And no...no iteration of Randle is better than any version of KAT.

That's bull and you know it. You were expecting someone to spread the floor to help others. You were not expecting a legitimate MVP candidate. No one was expecting him to have career highs in 4 statistic catalogues.

As I've always said, I watch more T-Wolves games than any other team not named NYK. I probably watched about 15 games this season. Randle has his supporters, just like he'll have his non-supporters. KAT wasn't universally loved. In fact, he was getting ripped into for his Dallas dub. With the fans, it's a little bit of the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

But at the end of the day, Finch is the problem. I watch enough, and read enough on this team to know that without my brand loyalty blinding me to it. Rudy/Randle do not work. Reid/Randle, however, does.

And I'm never going to agree on all KAT iterations are better, so let's just move on from that.

First it was "Shine at C?" ...now it's "MVP candidate"? That's called moving the goal posts.

We said at center KAT would be better than Randle and more impactful than Randle in every way, period. We were right.

I was expecting the KAT trade to automatically put us in the finals. I've said it repeatedly. Do you want me to post all of my pre-KAT trade talk about him? How does that happen without KAT "shining" and playing at a very high level?

Before, after, and forever, we said: KAT >>>>>>>>> Randle. You don't have to like it, but it's the reality. The numbers and the results don't lie.

[KnicksGadfly]

I happen to think Randle's 2 seasons with JB are his best seasons. Injuries mucked it up.

I still have Bubble Randle above them all, especially because that's the last time he really tried on defense, but I don't think there's an argument for Randle versus KAT last year.

I think that's also played out by the fact that the Knicks added DDV and a pick to a Randle deal for KAT. If Randle was really better these past two years, that should also be explained.

I do agree Randle trying on defense was a good, but him playing off someone like JB made him better overall.

Listen, regardless of your stance on Randle v. KAT, the trade was always going to be a 2 for 1 deal because of salary purposes. You could probably make the argument that a pick didn't need to be included. As many of the beat writers reported, there was legitimate concern with their C position because T-Wolves made it clear that they wanted Divo apart of the deal way back at the draft. If you put 2 and 2 together, I think once the Knicks knew Robinson was going to be out longer than reported to the public, that was the time to go with the KAT trade.

I do think Bubble Randle could have played off Brunson. First, him spacing the floor at 41% shooting from three is a killer. Second, I think a defensive Randle would have also added additional value to Brunson, who needs the help. Finally, that Randle was a legit leader and culture setter.

I agree that salary purposes were going to require this if the Knicks were adamant about KAT, but the Knicks would have never repurposed Randle for a higher-salary player that they thought was worse, and included DDV, who they loved and was Brunson's buddy, and a 1st rounder (still not the best one though). They only make the deal if in their mind, KAT is unequivocally better than Randle. I think their assessment was correct.

The other thing is that KAT wasn't the only option at C the past off-season. There were other trades to be made, so if they really felt strongly that Randle was the guy, they could have made other trades. The final piece of proof I want to hold up are the contract discussions. Randle wanted to get paid and most of the fans wanted him to get paid; New York was holding the line. If New York really thought Randle was worth it, they would have paid him.

That's not to say Randle was a complete negative or a scrub or something, but just wanted to say that I think KAT's value was higher in New York's eyes. I do think you are right that Finch effed it up a bit too, and KAT's personality played a part too. KAT can be super unselfish to a fault too...him taking so few shots in the first few Knicks games only illustrate this.

[Iron Mantis]

Careers: KAT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Randle

But without the toxic emo headcase garbage

One helped his team reach the conference finals while the other is the worst playoff performer in history.

It's obvious who is the better player. I'm just very thankful to Leon for bringing KAT home.





0.4 BLK per game for a starting big is nasty work

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

I don’t understand how any of you can root for this dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**** him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jalen Bluntson]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

I don’t understand how any of you can root for this dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**** him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's a POS. Trashing our team on multiple occasions this year? I want the win next Friday as bad as I wanted that Minnesota win against the other turd burglar!!

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

I don’t understand how any of you can root for this dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**** him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's a POS. Trashing our team on multiple occasions this year? I want the win next Friday as bad as I wanted that Minnesota win against the other turd burglar!!

Yep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And tbh i hate him more than I hate any other ex Knick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[3toheadmelo]

It is weird when someone says they moved on and they’re glad Randle is gone but every day they post hating Randle non stop. Even at 5 am

[Jalen Bluntson]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

I don’t understand how any of you can root for this dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**** him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's a POS. Trashing our team on multiple occasions this year? I want the win next Friday as bad as I wanted that Minnesota win against the other turd burglar!!

Yep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And tbh i hate him more than I hate any other ex Knick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm just being petty. It's not hate. It's more a GFY attitude.

[Iron Mantis]

KAT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Randle.

You don't like it, go into hiding again.

[3toheadmelo]

Who went into hiding?