Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo

[Triple C]

[GONYK]

Its funny cause it almost feels like folks are taking the fact that Zion Williamson ended up being the better player at Duke as proof that there must be something wrong with Barrett (who was the consensus no.1 overall player in this class coming into college).

To which, let's take a look at the criticism that Barrett has been laid on Barrett:

Barrett is a Chucker

Again, the notion that Coach K allowed Barrett to take all those shots from deep against his orders is pretty far fetched. Considering that the Blue Devils had 1 guy who could actually shoot (their 8th man) and that you simply cannot NOT take 3's in a game, it's really not hard to fathom that Barrett was viewed by Coach K as his best "other" option to take those deep shots is it? So the notion that Barrett was simply chucking shots of his own volition is a bit far fetched to me. Not at Duke. Not for a coach like Coach K. Why would he allow Barrett to simply chuck against game plans? Because he wanted to placate Barrett so he could stay another year? Everyone and their mom knew Barrett was 1 and done. Because Barrett ran buck wild? By most indications Barrett is a very intelligent, calm guy with a high BBIQ and a great upbringing. Coach K even said one of Barrett's biggest positive traits is his leadership ability. Would such a player disobey coaches orders and the game plan to become a selfish chucker?

Barrett's Offensive Game has Holes

Ok so realize this....just about every team and their locker room attendant knew what the Blue Devils weakness on offense was and how to game plan against them. Sure the Blue Devils had Zion Williamson but if you look at the stretch of games where Williamson was out, Barrett was unstoppable. This is WITHOUT Zion and with teams packing the paint and focusing on stopping him. So either Barrett was just plain lucky, the other teams were feeling sorry for Duke and letting up on them OR he really is that good.

Actually neither of those are my main concerns.

What gives me pause is his lack of elite athleticism/burst and oveereliance on power.

NBA defenders will diminish the physical advantages he exploited in college and I think his jumper and handle have a long way to go to compensate.

[KnixinSix]

KD, AD, and a 3rd superstar like Kyrie or Kemba, barring injuries of course, wins you a championship in year 1 and probably year 2 3 and 4. Doesn’t matter who the supporting cast is. I’m that confident in how dominant they would be together

Miami couldnt even do that in their prime when the league wasn't ready for a big 3, Im not even sure the Knicks make it out of the east next year with that lineup much less win it all.

Championship in the 1st year and probably 2,3 and 4 is probably excessive. But, in the 4 years that the Miami "Big 3" were together they made it to the championship every year and won 2 of the 4 they were in. So maybe not immediately and every year but it was hardly the wrong tact to take.

The Warriors are built in the same exact way and have achieved the same type of regular success. You load as much top tier stars as you can get into a system that fits their skills and then surround them with veteran role players that are willing to chase titles for the vet minimum. The assumption is that Perry and Mills will be looking to do the same (you convince KD and another top star to sign, try to trade for a 3rd, then start talking championships to veterans that can fit the system they want to run).

None of the teams in the East appear to be invincible. The Raptors play great team play but if Leonard leaves they are back in the middle of the playoff pack again. The Celtics are already looking like they may need a reshuffle. The Sixers are not world beaters. The Bucks IMO over achieved and eventually got exposed by a smart veteran team with talent and a game plan.

Great post. If it ends up KD Kemba and AD, I'd take that too. Kemba is a great character guy.

[KnixinSix]

Its funny cause it almost feels like folks are taking the fact that Zion Williamson ended up being the better player at Duke as proof that there must be something wrong with Barrett (who was the consensus no.1 overall player in this class coming into college).

To which, let's take a look at the criticism that Barrett has been laid on Barrett:

Barrett is a Chucker

Again, the notion that Coach K allowed Barrett to take all those shots from deep against his orders is pretty far fetched. Considering that the Blue Devils had 1 guy who could actually shoot (their 8th man) and that you simply cannot NOT take 3's in a game, it's really not hard to fathom that Barrett was viewed by Coach K as his best "other" option to take those deep shots is it? So the notion that Barrett was simply chucking shots of his own volition is a bit far fetched to me. Not at Duke. Not for a coach like Coach K. Why would he allow Barrett to simply chuck against game plans? Because he wanted to placate Barrett so he could stay another year? Everyone and their mom knew Barrett was 1 and done. Because Barrett ran buck wild? By most indications Barrett is a very intelligent, calm guy with a high BBIQ and a great upbringing. Coach K even said one of Barrett's biggest positive traits is his leadership ability. Would such a player disobey coaches orders and the game plan to become a selfish chucker?

Barrett's Offensive Game has Holes

Ok so realize this....just about every team and their locker room attendant knew what the Blue Devils weakness on offense was and how to game plan against them. Sure the Blue Devils had Zion Williamson but if you look at the stretch of games where Williamson was out, Barrett was unstoppable. This is WITHOUT Zion and with teams packing the paint and focusing on stopping him. So either Barrett was just plain lucky, the other teams were feeling sorry for Duke and letting up on them OR he really is that good.

Actually neither of those are my main concerns.

What gives me pause is his lack of elite athleticism/burst and oveereliance on power.

NBA defenders will diminish the physical advantages he exploited in college and I think his jumper and handle have a long way to go to compensate.

Possibly but I still think he has tremendous upside. He is a legit blue chip talent that could go #1 in other drafts. Which is also why he'd be the center peice in a deal for AD. If Griff sees him in the same light as many other NBA folks do he might be a better piece than anything anyone else could offer.

[GONYK]

Its funny cause it almost feels like folks are taking the fact that Zion Williamson ended up being the better player at Duke as proof that there must be something wrong with Barrett (who was the consensus no.1 overall player in this class coming into college).

To which, let's take a look at the criticism that Barrett has been laid on Barrett:

Barrett is a Chucker

Again, the notion that Coach K allowed Barrett to take all those shots from deep against his orders is pretty far fetched. Considering that the Blue Devils had 1 guy who could actually shoot (their 8th man) and that you simply cannot NOT take 3's in a game, it's really not hard to fathom that Barrett was viewed by Coach K as his best "other" option to take those deep shots is it? So the notion that Barrett was simply chucking shots of his own volition is a bit far fetched to me. Not at Duke. Not for a coach like Coach K. Why would he allow Barrett to simply chuck against game plans? Because he wanted to placate Barrett so he could stay another year? Everyone and their mom knew Barrett was 1 and done. Because Barrett ran buck wild? By most indications Barrett is a very intelligent, calm guy with a high BBIQ and a great upbringing. Coach K even said one of Barrett's biggest positive traits is his leadership ability. Would such a player disobey coaches orders and the game plan to become a selfish chucker?

Barrett's Offensive Game has Holes

Ok so realize this....just about every team and their locker room attendant knew what the Blue Devils weakness on offense was and how to game plan against them. Sure the Blue Devils had Zion Williamson but if you look at the stretch of games where Williamson was out, Barrett was unstoppable. This is WITHOUT Zion and with teams packing the paint and focusing on stopping him. So either Barrett was just plain lucky, the other teams were feeling sorry for Duke and letting up on them OR he really is that good.

Actually neither of those are my main concerns.

What gives me pause is his lack of elite athleticism/burst and oveereliance on power.

NBA defenders will diminish the physical advantages he exploited in college and I think his jumper and handle have a long way to go to compensate.

Possibly but I still think he has tremendous upside. He is a legit blue chip talent that could go #1 in other drafts.

I mean, he's a top tier prospect, but I can't think of a recent draft where he would go #1.

If he was in last year's draft, I don't think he goes in the top 5.

He's got upside, but there have been more complete prospects in the last few years.

[Meat]

Gallo (drafted by NY)
Wilson Chandler (drafted by NY)
Mozgov (knicks find)
2014 Pick
2012 Warriors 2nd
2013 Warriors 2nd

tell me again at the time we didnt get robed for a guy who could of simply signed. But noooooo Extension plz. At the time knicks were still recovering from giving up picks in previous years. Then we did Baragani trade in 2016. No one ever learns lets keep doing it....

Again, not even remotely comparable. But let’s keep making the comparison.

You're trying to say something but you're not saying anything.

he doesn't have to, entirely because your argument is silly at best to anyone with the least bit of common sense

[j4remi]

Darius Garland got a promise already right? I wanted to see/hear workout news.

[GONYK]

Darius Garland got a promise already right? I wanted to see/hear workout news.

I think he would still workout for teams above his promise

[Knicksfan1992]

Its funny cause it almost feels like folks are taking the fact that Zion Williamson ended up being the better player at Duke as proof that there must be something wrong with Barrett (who was the consensus no.1 overall player in this class coming into college).

To which, let's take a look at the criticism that Barrett has been laid on Barrett:

Barrett is a Chucker

Again, the notion that Coach K allowed Barrett to take all those shots from deep against his orders is pretty far fetched. Considering that the Blue Devils had 1 guy who could actually shoot (their 8th man) and that you simply cannot NOT take 3's in a game, it's really not hard to fathom that Barrett was viewed by Coach K as his best "other" option to take those deep shots is it? So the notion that Barrett was simply chucking shots of his own volition is a bit far fetched to me. Not at Duke. Not for a coach like Coach K. Why would he allow Barrett to simply chuck against game plans? Because he wanted to placate Barrett so he could stay another year? Everyone and their mom knew Barrett was 1 and done. Because Barrett ran buck wild? By most indications Barrett is a very intelligent, calm guy with a high BBIQ and a great upbringing. Coach K even said one of Barrett's biggest positive traits is his leadership ability. Would such a player disobey coaches orders and the game plan to become a selfish chucker?

Barrett's Offensive Game has Holes

Ok so realize this....just about every team and their locker room attendant knew what the Blue Devils weakness on offense was and how to game plan against them. Sure the Blue Devils had Zion Williamson but if you look at the stretch of games where Williamson was out, Barrett was unstoppable. This is WITHOUT Zion and with teams packing the paint and focusing on stopping him. So either Barrett was just plain lucky, the other teams were feeling sorry for Duke and letting up on them OR he really is that good.

Actually neither of those are my main concerns.

What gives me pause is his lack of elite athleticism/burst and oveereliance on power.

NBA defenders will diminish the physical advantages he exploited in college and I think his jumper and handle have a long way to go to compensate.

Possibly but I still think he has tremendous upside. He is a legit blue chip talent that could go #1 in other drafts. Which is also why he'd be the center peice in a deal for AD. If Griff sees him in the same light as many other NBA folks do he might be a better piece than anything anyone else could offer.

I'm more pro-RJ than most people but the only draft in the last 10 years that he would have maybe gone number 1 in is 2013 and that's not exactly a ringing endorsement either...

[Chanel Bomber]

Who has more upside strictly as a jumpshooter, Barrett or Culver?

Neither one of them shoots well from the free throw line, which is a problem. However Culver did improve his FT% by 5% in his sophomore year, and I sure hope Barrett will do the same.

It’s becoming harder and harder to be a winning player in the NBA without a reliable jumpshot. And the jumpshot is a question mark for all those top prospects. I wouldn’t want to be Scott Perry, whoever we take at 3 will be far from a sure thing.

The Knicks are one of the least talented teams in the NBA. They lack an alpha. They lack a no.1 option. They are one of the worst offensive teams in the NBA. They lack trade assets. You take the one that is most likely to be able to be a star player (especially offensive start player) in the NBA not who might become the better shooter. Neither guy is a shooter nor is that what their respective games are about for them to be considered in the top 5 of this draft. I wouldn't be so stuck on trying to figure out who might be the better shooter. One might be able to shoot better but if the guy can't create his own shot in the NBA or that can't dominate, drafting a spot up shooing role player at 3 will be a bigger fail than drafting a Demar Derozan type that can score but not shoot 3's. But if it helps, a lot of scouts believe that Barrett's shooting isn't due to poor form or lack of BB IQ and rather just taking more than he should due to the lack of other 3 point options on the roster (and Duke's one weakness on offense was the lack of 3 point shooting, they were ranked 329 in the nation in 3 point accuracy...which...for a championship caliber team was just abysmal).

I absolutely agree that we need to pick the player with the highest upside. But the lack of a jumpshot puts a ceiling on that upside, especially in today's NBA. I've been high on RJ for a while, he definitely has that alpha mentality but it's not enough if he can't shoot efficiently. We've seen guys like that before (Rudy Gay, Corey Maggette).

FT% is a solid indicator of a young player's ability to develop his jumpshot. And, while I love many aspects of his game, I think it's fair to question RJ's jumpshot at the next level since he shot below 70% at Duke. I love RJ and the lack of spacing at Duke definitely hurt his efficiency but I find his FT% a little concerning.

Also, the player who's widely perceived as having the highest upside doesn't always turn out to be that guy. Case in point, Kawhi Leonard. People thought Derrick Williams had insane potential, yet the guy who was picked 13 picks after him is now getting compared to MJ and Kobe. Whether you feel these comparisons are valid or not, it turned out the 15th pick had the highest upside in this draft. My point is, RJ might not be the one with the highest upside.

[Knicksfan1992]

Darius Garland got a promise already right? I wanted to see/hear workout news.

I think he would still workout for teams above his promise

Very likely depends on what the promising team told him... Very real chance that they'll want to hide him from other teams

[GONYK]

Darius Garland got a promise already right? I wanted to see/hear workout news.

I think he would still workout for teams above his promise

Very likely depends on what the promising team told him... Very real chance that they'll want to hide him from other teams

Did he participate in the Klutch pro day?

[Knicksfan1992]

I think he would still workout for teams above his promise

Very likely depends on what the promising team told him... Very real chance that they'll want to hide him from other teams

Did he participate in the Klutch pro day?

I believe he was there but did not participate.

[Zenzibar]

....not even 20 yet.

[TheGreenArrow]

....not even 20 yet.

[robillionaire]

....not even 20 yet.

not even 19...

[Buttah304]

All I know is that this board got Moo back and I feel like our collective IQ has significantly gone up.

[HarthorneWingo]

Its funny cause it almost feels like folks are taking the fact that Zion Williamson ended up being the better player at Duke as proof that there must be something wrong with Barrett (who was the consensus no.1 overall player in this class coming into college).

To which, let's take a look at the criticism that Barrett has been laid on Barrett:

Barrett is a Chucker

Again, the notion that Coach K allowed Barrett to take all those shots from deep against his orders is pretty far fetched. Considering that the Blue Devils had 1 guy who could actually shoot (their 8th man) and that you simply cannot NOT take 3's in a game, it's really not hard to fathom that Barrett was viewed by Coach K as his best "other" option to take those deep shots is it? So the notion that Barrett was simply chucking shots of his own volition is a bit far fetched to me. Not at Duke. Not for a coach like Coach K. Why would he allow Barrett to simply chuck against game plans? Because he wanted to placate Barrett so he could stay another year? Everyone and their mom knew Barrett was 1 and done. Because Barrett ran buck wild? By most indications Barrett is a very intelligent, calm guy with a high BBIQ and a great upbringing. Coach K even said one of Barrett's biggest positive traits is his leadership ability. Would such a player disobey coaches orders and the game plan to become a selfish chucker?

Barrett's Offensive Game has Holes

Ok so realize this....just about every team and their locker room attendant knew what the Blue Devils weakness on offense was and how to game plan against them. Sure the Blue Devils had Zion Williamson but if you look at the stretch of games where Williamson was out, Barrett was unstoppable. This is WITHOUT Zion and with teams packing the paint and focusing on stopping him. So either Barrett was just plain lucky, the other teams were feeling sorry for Duke and letting up on them OR he really is that good.

Actually neither of those are my main concerns.

What gives me pause is his lack of elite athleticism/burst and oveereliance on power.

NBA defenders will diminish the physical advantages he exploited in college and I think his jumper and handle have a long way to go to compensate.

I listened to the Dunc’d On podcast last night. The second half is on Barrett. It’s worth a listen because they really did their homework. Here’s the first question they ask:

What does RJ do really well?

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/duncd-on-basketball-nba-podcast/id986901174#episodeGuid=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.spreaker.com%2Fepisode%2F18117236

[HarthorneWingo]

All I know is that this board got Moo back and I feel like our collective IQ has significantly gone up.

[GONYK]

Its funny cause it almost feels like folks are taking the fact that Zion Williamson ended up being the better player at Duke as proof that there must be something wrong with Barrett (who was the consensus no.1 overall player in this class coming into college).

To which, let's take a look at the criticism that Barrett has been laid on Barrett:

Barrett is a Chucker

Again, the notion that Coach K allowed Barrett to take all those shots from deep against his orders is pretty far fetched. Considering that the Blue Devils had 1 guy who could actually shoot (their 8th man) and that you simply cannot NOT take 3's in a game, it's really not hard to fathom that Barrett was viewed by Coach K as his best "other" option to take those deep shots is it? So the notion that Barrett was simply chucking shots of his own volition is a bit far fetched to me. Not at Duke. Not for a coach like Coach K. Why would he allow Barrett to simply chuck against game plans? Because he wanted to placate Barrett so he could stay another year? Everyone and their mom knew Barrett was 1 and done. Because Barrett ran buck wild? By most indications Barrett is a very intelligent, calm guy with a high BBIQ and a great upbringing. Coach K even said one of Barrett's biggest positive traits is his leadership ability. Would such a player disobey coaches orders and the game plan to become a selfish chucker?

Barrett's Offensive Game has Holes

Ok so realize this....just about every team and their locker room attendant knew what the Blue Devils weakness on offense was and how to game plan against them. Sure the Blue Devils had Zion Williamson but if you look at the stretch of games where Williamson was out, Barrett was unstoppable. This is WITHOUT Zion and with teams packing the paint and focusing on stopping him. So either Barrett was just plain lucky, the other teams were feeling sorry for Duke and letting up on them OR he really is that good.

Actually neither of those are my main concerns.

What gives me pause is his lack of elite athleticism/burst and oveereliance on power.

NBA defenders will diminish the physical advantages he exploited in college and I think his jumper and handle have a long way to go to compensate.

I listened to the Dunc’d On podcast last night. The second half is on Barrett. It’s worth a listen because they really did their homework. Here’s the first question they ask:

What does RJ do really well?

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/duncd-on-basketball-nba-podcast/id986901174#episodeGuid=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.spreaker.com%2Fepisode%2F18117236

I listened to it this morning.

I think all their concerns are valid.

I'm not as down on RJ as them, but I don't think his path to stardom is as clear as most people seem to.