Clyde_Style wrote:robillionaire wrote:GONYK wrote:
There is very little evidence in this election cycle so far that says any more than that is necessary
I think history shows more than that is necessary, because it failed in 2016. But we are in a crucial moment so this isn't going to be a typical election. I fear people may "rally around the flag" in a crisis like they did in 2004.
There are mile long bread lines already. NGO food banks in the USA are already depleting their cash reserves to feed people because their usual donors are donations from supermarkets giving expiring items and restaurant excess food supply. Even usual food drive sources from citizens are drying up because people are keeping their canned goods for themselves instead of reaching into their pantry.
If private organizations trying to make up the shortfall that government food subsidies are not covering for what are now tens of millions of people with no money and no food, how do you expect people to rally around the flag?
The devastation has only just begun. By this Summer we're talking about serious crime issues as people get desperate and law enforcement is cut in half by the virus.
Social disorder will be a big issue going into the election and it is not going to get better between now and the election, but significantly worse. I'm preparing for it. Are you prepared for it? Maybe you're in a safe apartment building in the city, but many of us are not. But since you got laid off, maybe you have to move soon. I hope you have a family that will take you in. There's tens of millions of people out there that don't have fallback options.
And I don't think Trump can win on a law and order platform since many will consider him the reason things fell apart. He's the most lawless individual imaginable.
That's true in a sense, I'm effectively already in a bread line as I'm waiting for my unemployment check like 12 million other people are. If the election was today, Trump may lose. But we don't know how things will recover by November. If we get the doomsday "riots in the streets" scenario you describe, being in a post-apocalyptic Manhattan would be the last place in which someone would be safe. But I'd also be participating and supporting the protest movement as I think they are long overdue and have already been calling for a yellow vest movement. I am ready and prepared for mass civil disobedience and believe we need it more now than ever. We should make occupy wall street look like a picnic and occupy the whole island. The final fallback option should be a revolution, nothing less. It's becoming increasingly clear to many that we have nothing left to lose. I hope it happens. That would give me a ray of hope.
I don't know and I won't dig too deep into the rabbit hole on the Ukraine issue but in 2016 people were practically begging for Trump to be the nominee, some may say uplifting him as a pied piper candidate, because it would be an easy win. We know how that turned out. If I recall correctly you strongly believed that once the evidence came out from Mueller and russiagate that it would take down Trump, and the MSNBC pundits had the plot all mapped out and assured everyone it would be the end of him. But it wasn't. Then the thought was that impeachment would have him removed and certainly his own party would turn on him because the case against him was so very strong, but there was never even a chance. Not only that, both of these things strengthened the support for Trump and boosted his chances of re-election. Now we are to believe Trump is scared of Biden. You'll have to excuse my skepticism!
Biden had been coronated as the front runner for a long time, but despite that his campaign looked dead in the water as of February and it took a tremendous coordinated effort by the party to coalesce around him using his win in a solid GOP state in which he had poured all his resources as a springboard and having the other candidates in a suspiciously packed field drop out and endorse him at targeted times to carry him to this nomination. I just don't really buy his strength as a candidate. I have just personally never seen any genuine enthusiastic support for him amongst the masses. Also I don't think he'll perform well vs Trump on the debate stage.
I'm not saying Sanders would have won or would even do any better, at this point that ship has sailed and there's no reason to discuss him. But it would be a folly to write off Trump or believe he's scared after everything we've seen since 2016. I'm originally from the south as I was born in Florida and raised in Kentucky and I visit family down there on occasion. It's a rabid fanatical cult. He really could shoot someone and not lose support. The virus is a blessing in the sense that it might stop him from filling football stadiums with his klan rallies.
I honestly feel the most generous thing I can do to help out is to shut up and stop talking about the election. I was already planning to do so but this is still a fresh topic that warrants some final predictions and thoughts. But after this I'm going radio silent on this entire election. Because I don't have anything nice to say about what happened over the course of the past 5 years, and if you don't have anything nice to say, well, you know how it goes.
One other thing though, at some point we probably need to be honest that progressives/leftists have fundamental and perhaps irreconcilable differences with the (let's call it the biden wing or establishment wing or "centrist" or whatever you prefer) of the dem party and vice versa. We just don't have the same values or vision for what this country is supposed to be. There is a tangible genuine dislike between people in these camps, I'm sure you see it and feel it when you post on twitter or here. So why should we cover our eyes and ears and blame the russians or the gop for this divide and write off anybody who expresses their discontent as a russian agent, as opposed to facing up to the tough reality that there's a real tangible ideological divide on the issues? We are repeatedly told our agenda is impossible and told we need to fall in line while getting nothing in return. But we aren't going to stop demanding medicare for all or a green new deal or economic justice for working class people. It's literally life and death for some people. Now more than ever. The virus highlights the contradictions in the system. This is just an appetizer for the climate crisis, the response to this is a test balloon for the climate crisis. Gonna be a wild decade. Edit: I meant to mention that AOC recently said “in any other country Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party.” I tend to agree
