Around the NBA - Offseason Chatter

[BBALLER4FR]

But seriously if the plan is to make a run at Giannis this is the way to do it. Freak clearly knows he needs better perimeter player on his team and Harden is one of the best guys that can create off the bounce. Imagine those two running PNR together? It pretty much be unstoppable and put us into title contention immediately.

Oooooor, we could be stuck with little assets, Giannis snubbung us (like every damned superstar to date...remember that) and a disgruntled Harden with Julius Randle body language reminding big players why not to come here while he awaits the day he can exit. Imagine that! Even more ESPN hate (as it that were even possible) and the luxury of starting this p[ocess over again!



What a great game plan.

What exact game plan is their now? Have cap space you can’t use, sign 1 year vets at the expense of playing younger kids, continue to tank endlessly?

Yup. I don't like it but mortgage everything to get Harden and hope for Giannis is far more problematic, and less likely to come to fruition. It's fools gold being pushed to fools. Stay away from it.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Sheridan in his article said Knicks could put a formidable package together of RJ, Frank, Randle, Knox, 2 Dallas picks for Harden, but since Harden didn’t go to Kentucky he doesn’t think Rose would be interested

“New York is rebuilding under new general manager Leon Rose and head coach Tom Thibodeau, and sacrificing multiple future first-round picks would seem risky for a franchise that plans to build around youngsters Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley and RJ Barrett. But Rose owns the rights to two future Dallas first-rounders, and in theory, a swap of Julius Randle, Barrett, Frank Ntilikina and Kevin Knox along with three first-round picks would give the franchise a superstar to build around. Harden might average 50 on the Knicks. Then again, Harden did not attend Kentucky”

But seriously if the plan is to make a run at Giannis this is the way to do it. Freak clearly knows he needs better perimeter player on his team and Harden is one of the best guys that can create off the bounce. Imagine those two running PNR together? It pretty much be unstoppable and put us into title contention immediately.

Oooooor, we could be stuck with little assets, Giannis snubbung us (like every damned superstar to date...remember that) and a disgruntled Harden with Julius Randle body language reminding big players why not to come here while he awaits the day he can exit. Imagine that! Even more ESPN hate (as it that were even possible) and the luxury of starting this p[ocess over again!



What a great game plan.

Thank you, I agree it is a great plan! Giannis is looking for other superstar talent to play with and the only superstar that's available is Harden. Harden's one of those real superstars too, not a guy like Melo, who wasn't MVP good. So if the plan is to bring in superstar talent, why not take a shot at bringing in one of those people and attracting another? The only team that can offer Giannis a better running mate is Dallas but that's with injury prone KP clogging up their cap and they're in the western conference. So you think holding onto all of our draft picks, Toppin, Quickley, and Mitch would leave us with no assets to make anymore move? That's what's so great about this deal is it doesn't completely deplete us of assets. We could easily package those guys to bring in a better third banana if Toppin can't handle that role. I think since we're pretty much sending out equal value dollarwise for Harden we should have like 20+ million after bringing in Giannis to grab someone else too.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Thank you, I agree it is a great plan! [...] So you think holding onto all of our draft picks, Toppin, Quickley, and Mitch would leave us with no assets to make anymore move? That's what's so great about this deal is it doesn't completely deplete us of assets. We could easily package those guys to bring in a better third banana if Toppin can't handle that role. I think since we're pretty much sending out equal value dollarwise for Harden we should have like 20+ million after bringing in Giannis to grab someone else too.

Harden, Giannis, Toppin, Quickley & Mitch leaves you with just $3,894,156 * in cap room (assuming the cap stays at this year's figure, which seems the likeliest outcome in view of games without spectators and covid, though it's difficult to assign probabilities).

* corrected number

[god shammgod]

Thank you, I agree it is a great plan! [...] So you think holding onto all of our draft picks, Toppin, Quickley, and Mitch would leave us with no assets to make anymore move? That's what's so great about this deal is it doesn't completely deplete us of assets. We could easily package those guys to bring in a better third banana if Toppin can't handle that role. I think since we're pretty much sending out equal value dollarwise for Harden we should have like 20+ million after bringing in Giannis to grab someone else too.

Harden, Giannis, Toppin, Quickley & Mitch leaves you with just $6,950,076 in cap room (assuming the cap stays at this year's figure, which seems the likeliest outcome in view of games without spectators and covid, though it's difficult to assign probabilities).

how are you even making this trade without toppin or mitch included ?

here's the likely minimum harden package. toppin or mitch, rj, take your pick from dennis, frank, knox, 2 knicks 1st round picks, the 2 dallas picks.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Thank you, I agree it is a great plan! [...] So you think holding onto all of our draft picks, Toppin, Quickley, and Mitch would leave us with no assets to make anymore move? That's what's so great about this deal is it doesn't completely deplete us of assets. We could easily package those guys to bring in a better third banana if Toppin can't handle that role. I think since we're pretty much sending out equal value dollarwise for Harden we should have like 20+ million after bringing in Giannis to grab someone else too.

Harden, Giannis, Toppin, Quickley & Mitch leaves you with just $6,950,076 in cap room (assuming the cap stays at this year's figure, which seems the likeliest outcome in view of games without spectators and covid, though it's difficult to assign probabilities).

I'm not a cap person, so you'll need to explain this to me like a child. We just had like 60+ million dollars in cap space this offseason and Harden costs 41 but we'd be sending out 38. I think the max we could pay Giannis would be 4 yrs 160 mill. Why wouldn't we still have that 17 million available?

[jvsimonetti0514]

Thank you, I agree it is a great plan! [...] So you think holding onto all of our draft picks, Toppin, Quickley, and Mitch would leave us with no assets to make anymore move? That's what's so great about this deal is it doesn't completely deplete us of assets. We could easily package those guys to bring in a better third banana if Toppin can't handle that role. I think since we're pretty much sending out equal value dollarwise for Harden we should have like 20+ million after bringing in Giannis to grab someone else too.

Harden, Giannis, Toppin, Quickley & Mitch leaves you with just $6,950,076 in cap room (assuming the cap stays at this year's figure, which seems the likeliest outcome in view of games without spectators and covid, though it's difficult to assign probabilities).

how are you even making this trade without toppin or mitch included ?

here's the likely minimum harden package. toppin or mitch, rj, take your pick from dennis, frank, knox, 2 knicks 1st round picks, the 2 dallas picks.

I didn't come up with that package an esteemed sports journalist did. That's why I said if you can walk away with Harden without having to give up everything it's a steal. Especially, if the plan is to make a run at Giannis.

[K_ick_God]

Extending PG is a shocker. Seems like a risky double down. Get why. But shocked.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Thank you, I agree it is a great plan! [...] So you think holding onto all of our draft picks, Toppin, Quickley, and Mitch would leave us with no assets to make anymore move? That's what's so great about this deal is it doesn't completely deplete us of assets. We could easily package those guys to bring in a better third banana if Toppin can't handle that role. I think since we're pretty much sending out equal value dollarwise for Harden we should have like 20+ million after bringing in Giannis to grab someone else too.

Harden, Giannis, Toppin, Quickley & Mitch leaves you with just $6,950,076 in cap room (assuming the cap stays at this year's figure, which seems the likeliest outcome in view of games without spectators and covid, though it's difficult to assign probabilities).

I'm not a cap person, so you'll need to explain this to me like a child. We just had like 60+ million dollars in cap space this offseason and Harden costs 41 but we'd be sending out 38. I think the max we could pay Giannis would be 4 yrs 160 mill. Why wouldn't we still have that 17 million available?

I'm sorry - I screwed that up (by taking the wrong figure for Harden). You are actually left with $3,894,156.

The trade (of Harden for Randle, Knox, RJ and Frank) does work for cap purposes - in fact far less salary is required to be outgoing frm the Knicks - just Randle and one of RJ, Frank or Knox is enough.

But tinkering with the 2020-2021 figures is not the best way to work out the 2021-2022 cap situation, because there are all kinds of contracts coming off the books

For the cap for 2021-2022 just focus on the salaries you would have to pay if you (i) trade for Harden this year and (ii) sign Giannis to the max in 2021-2022 off season (ie in July 2021). Assume that the cap stays the same as for the last two years.*

Harden (44.3m**), Giannis (38.2m), Toppin (5.1m), Mitch (1.8m) and Quickley (2.2m), and 8 "Incomplete Roster Charge"s (7.2m in total), and Jo Noah's cap hold (6.4m). That all adds up to 105.2m. If the cap is ~109.1m again that leaves you with about 3.9m.

* I suspect Adam Silver will try hard not to reduce the cap, but I don't see league revenue will support increasing it
** It's Harden's 2021-2022 salary, not the 2020-2021 one (41.2m) that counts.

[BBALLER4FR]

Thank you, I agree it is a great plan! [...] So you think holding onto all of our draft picks, Toppin, Quickley, and Mitch would leave us with no assets to make anymore move? That's what's so great about this deal is it doesn't completely deplete us of assets. We could easily package those guys to bring in a better third banana if Toppin can't handle that role. I think since we're pretty much sending out equal value dollarwise for Harden we should have like 20+ million after bringing in Giannis to grab someone else too.

Harden, Giannis, Toppin, Quickley & Mitch leaves you with just $6,950,076 in cap room (assuming the cap stays at this year's figure, which seems the likeliest outcome in view of games without spectators and covid, though it's difficult to assign probabilities).

how are you even making this trade without toppin or mitch included ?

here's the likely minimum harden package. toppin or mitch, rj, take your pick from dennis, frank, knox, 2 knicks 1st round picks, the 2 dallas picks.

That's one amazing part. The second amazing part is that this plan will go exactly as planned which we know...it won't.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Extending PG is a shocker. Seems like a risky double down. Get why. But shocked.

I guess they can trade him now.

[Richard4444]

Next summers FA list is drying up fast

I told you so. Next year must be a bad FA class, maybe even worse than this year. Because we will face more competition than Detroit, Atlanta and Hornets.

We already lost in next year"s Free Agency class:
UFA: LeBron, AD, PG13, Jrue Holiday, Gordon Hayward and Steve Adams.
RFA: Donovan, Tatum, Fox, and Adebayo.

Our options:
Pipe dreams: Giannis, Kawhi
UFA washed players: Oladipo, Blake, Cousins
UFA too old: Lowry (35), Melo (37), CP3 (36). Milsap (36), LMA (36), Dragic (35), Howard (35), Lou (34), Conley (34)
UFA so so: Rose (32), DeRozan (32), Barton (30), Gobert (29), Otto (28), Schroder (28), Fournier (28), Spencer (28), Richardson (28), Powell (28), Oubre (25),
RFA: Lonzo, Markanen, Isaac, Collins, OG, Derrick White, Kuzma, Fultz, Monk, Jarret, Duncan Robinson, Nunn;

[GONYK]

I'm not concerned about FA classes. Players move when they want to move now, and often get their contract first.

[Tron Carter]

Read on Twitter

lmao good

[Clyde_Style]

Extending PG is a shocker. Seems like a risky double down. Get why. But shocked.

WTF are the Clippers thinking?

Wow

[Clyde_Style]

Read on Twitter

lmao good

It's a Flat Fee

[Chanel Bomber]

Read on Twitter

lmao good

Berman on Macri's pod mentioned how the Nets were on the back page of the New York Post despite not getting any clicks on the website. So they're milking this Durant and Irving thing even though it's less profitable. And it got me wondering if the Post along with other media outlets aren't doing this to stick it to Dolan. Are they relegating the Knicks and hyping up the Nets as some form of vendetta against Dolan after he banned the Daily News from their preseason press conference last year? I mean, it was an attack on the press.

I have always been very much against Dolan's censorship attempts, and I always thought banning the Daily News was a PR disaster that would have real repercussions.

But now the Nets have their own paranoid headcases, so it will be interesting to see how the dynamic with the media evolves on their side.

[DowNY]

Extending PG is a shocker. Seems like a risky double down. Get why. But shocked.

WTF are the Clippers thinking?

Wow

Saving their behinds. Was possible that both PG & Kawhi could leave after the season and Clippers would’ve been left with nothing. Now they at least secure the person they traded SGA & picks for

[DowNY]

PG & Oladipo were candidates that the Knicks could overpay for in free agency, Amare style

[BBALLER4FR]

Read on Twitter

lmao good

It's a Flat Fee

[Clyde_Style]

Extending PG is a shocker. Seems like a risky double down. Get why. But shocked.

WTF are the Clippers thinking?

Wow

Saving their behinds. Was possible that both PG & Kawhi could leave after the season and Clippers would’ve been left with nothing. Now they at least secure the person they traded SGA & picks for

Classic throwing good money after bad move. They want to save face maybe because they got jobbed on that deal, but this is a glaring mistake. Better to let him walk than to be carrying around a $40M+ contract for 4 years. It's ridiculous. He wasn't even a $20M player last year IMO. They'll regret this