2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3

[stuporman]

I noticed Thor when I was scouting out Cooper and thought he was pretty interesting.... has a little bit of unicorn in him with his rim protection and 3ball. I will have to do a deeper dive into the video on him to see if he's going to be a nice 2nd round sleeper...I have to see how the rest of his game looks beyond the blocks and 3s but that's a great start for sure.

[SmoothLefty21]

Re: Bouknight...

In his freshman season at UCONN, he shot 36.3% from three after factoring out the two pull-ups he took all year and missed per InStat. He shot just 29.3% from three on much higher volume this season. However, there are a couple factors that need to be thrown in before taking those numbers at face value.

As just mentioned, almost all of Bouknight’s looks were off the catch his freshman season. This past year, 45% of his threes were off the dribble. Those shots are significantly harder and Bouknight shouldered a much heavier creation load than his first year. On top of that, he suffered an elbow injury that required surgery in the middle of the season, limiting him to 15 total games. Prior to the game in which he was injured (Marquette) he was shooting 33.3% from three and over 80% from the line: after returning from injury, 26.8% from three and 75.6% from the line. So there was a ton of variability in a short amount of time.

This is the most thorough scouting report I've seen on Bouknight.

https://www.indycornrows.com/platform/amp/2021/6/8/22451227/james-bouknight-and-the-art-of-off-ball-movement

[knickstape4ever]

Re: Bouknight...

In his freshman season at UCONN, he shot 36.3% from three after factoring out the two pull-ups he took all year and missed per InStat. He shot just 29.3% from three on much higher volume this season. However, there are a couple factors that need to be thrown in before taking those numbers at face value.

As just mentioned, almost all of Bouknight’s looks were off the catch his freshman season. This past year, 45% of his threes were off the dribble. Those shots are significantly harder and Bouknight shouldered a much heavier creation load than his first year. On top of that, he suffered an elbow injury that required surgery in the middle of the season, limiting him to 15 total games. Prior to the game in which he was injured (Marquette) he was shooting 33.3% from three and over 80% from the line: after returning from injury, 26.8% from three and 75.6% from the line. So there was a ton of variability in a short amount of time.

This is the most thorough scouting report I've seen on Bouknight.

https://www.indycornrows.com/platform/amp/2021/6/8/22451227/james-bouknight-and-the-art-of-off-ball-movement

he's definitely a better shooter than the #'s suggest. similar to Anthony Edwards last draft

he looks like he has star potential IMO w/ his athleticism, ability to create off the the dribble and score at all 3 levels

[Richard4444]

I’m hoping that Thunder pick falls in the 7-10 range and they end up with a top 5 pick, so they don’t feel pressured to it on their own pick. Lol

That why we can try to trade up with them and take that Horford contract off their hands.

No way. They don't need cap space. As matter of fact, having a high-salary guy who does not want to play helps the development of the young players and the tanking.

[Jeff Van Gully]

cameron thomas thoughts?

[cgf]

cameron thomas thoughts?

If we move Quickley, he'd be a nice replacement. Kid can really go off, but I didn't see much playmaking when I caught him & he's not exactly an intense defender.

He's in the same tier of guards, but I like Butler & Mann a lot more.

[cgf]

Being raw didn't stop Thibs from playing or the staff from developing Obi. So let's stop talking about what a "win-now coach" will do & let's talk about what Thibs has actually done.

1) Obi was given barely 12 minutes a game.

2) Obi is a 23 years old player, who is psychologically mature for a rookie, and already pretty strong. Moreover, he was draft number 8 and was a favorite to be rookie of the year. There was a great expectation to see him in the court.

Obi isn't raw either. His biggest issue wasn't that he was raw skillwise. It was that he physically wasn't able to compete with NBA players due to strength and conditioning, but as we saw through the season he got stronger and played better. I expect him to have a better season next year.

Obi isn't raw? Have you seen his handle or his shot? What about how underdeveloped his body is with those stick-figure legs? Or how lost he was for much of the season? People assumed Obi was NBA ready because of his age...ignoring his late growth spurt...but I disagreed with that when he was drafted and this season only confirmed my thoughts on that subject.

As for his PT; he got a consistent shift in the rotation despite how bad he was until the light finally came on and the staff managed to get him to stop looking like a deer in the headlights by season's end. Obi was raw & Obi developed this season. Those are both true statements, despite the memes about Thibs hating kids & refusing to develop them because he's a "win now coach."

[WargamesX]

1) Obi was given barely 12 minutes a game.

2) Obi is a 23 years old player, who is psychologically mature for a rookie, and already pretty strong. Moreover, he was draft number 8 and was a favorite to be rookie of the year. There was a great expectation to see him in the court.

Obi isn't raw either. His biggest issue wasn't that he was raw skillwise. It was that he physically wasn't able to compete with NBA players due to strength and conditioning, but as we saw through the season he got stronger and played better. I expect him to have a better season next year.

Obi isn't raw? Have you seen his handle or his shot? What about how underdeveloped his body is with those stick-figure legs? Or how lost he was for much of the season? People assumed Obi was NBA ready because of his age...ignoring his late growth spurt...but I disagreed with that when he was drafted and this season only confirmed my thoughts on that subject.

As for his PT; he got a consistent shift in the rotation despite how bad he was until the light finally came on and the staff managed to get him to stop looking like a deer in the headlights by season's end. Obi was raw & Obi developed this season. Those are both true statements, despite the memes about Thibs hating kids & refusing to develop them because he's a "win now coach."

I think we’re getting caught up in semantics. My definition of raw are guys who physically are freaks (ideally) but then have to be taught basketball skills and basketball IQ. The prospect Greg Brown comes to mind. Physically his body is nba ready but he can’t do much and will have to be trained on how to play Basketball at a NBA level.

Obi skill wise isn’t what I would call raw, but in the grand scheme of things he wasn’t NBA ready either because physically he couldn’t compete with NBA players. Also while he does know basketball and can do things on the court, he didn’t know it well enough to compete inspite his physical limitations. I don’t think Thibs gives a low skill player time. Obi went out there and did adapt to his weakness. Initially he was trying to post guys up (and pass out of it), but once he (or the coaching staff) realized that was futile. Obi started launching 3’s, cutting to the basket more, and playing defense. If he wasn’t skilled enough to do that I think they would have benched him. Whoever they draft I expect a certain level of BBIQ and skills to get off the bench from jump. They can take the time to let the kid get stronger. However, they’ll need to bring some NBA level skill to the team from jump. I also expect Obi to get stronger and try to post guys up again next season.

[cgf]

Obi isn't raw either. His biggest issue wasn't that he was raw skillwise. It was that he physically wasn't able to compete with NBA players due to strength and conditioning, but as we saw through the season he got stronger and played better. I expect him to have a better season next year.

Obi isn't raw? Have you seen his handle or his shot? What about how underdeveloped his body is with those stick-figure legs? Or how lost he was for much of the season? People assumed Obi was NBA ready because of his age...ignoring his late growth spurt...but I disagreed with that when he was drafted and this season only confirmed my thoughts on that subject.

As for his PT; he got a consistent shift in the rotation despite how bad he was until the light finally came on and the staff managed to get him to stop looking like a deer in the headlights by season's end. Obi was raw & Obi developed this season. Those are both true statements, despite the memes about Thibs hating kids & refusing to develop them because he's a "win now coach."

I think we’re getting caught up in semantics. My definition of raw are guys who physically are freaks but then have to be taught basketball skills and basketball IQ. The prospect Greg Brown comes to mind. Physically his body is nba ready but he can’t do much and will have to be trained on how to play Basketball at a NBA level.

Obi skill wise isn’t what I would call raw, but in the grand scheme of things he wasn’t NBA ready either because physically he couldn’t compete with NBA players, and while he does know basketball and can do things on the court, he didn’t know it well enough to compete inspire his physical limitations. I don’t think Thibs gives a low skill player time. Obi went out there and did adapt, initially he was trying to post guys up, but once he (out the coaching staff) realized that was futile. Obi started launching 3’s more and playing defense. If he wasn’t skilled enough to do that I think they would have benched him. Who ever they draft I expect a certain level of BBIQ and skills to get of the bench from jump. They can take the time to let the kid get stronger, it they’ll need to bring some NBA level skill to to the team from jump.

Where we're going to disagree is on Obi knowing what he should be doing on the court this season. I thought it was very clear that -- despite his passing-instincts & the BBIQ they suggest -- he was very lost for much of the season and over the last month of the campaign a light came on for him / things started slowing down. And given his poor shooting #s, looser than babys*** handle, and numerous defensive errors (especially earlier in the season), I don't really understand the argument that his skills didn't need a lot of work.


As for our definitions of raw; for me, it's just anyone who has a lot to work on before being ready to contribute in a significant role. Whether that is because they have to learn how to play the game...be that b/c of a lack of experience (like Keon) or just not having a great feel for the game (like Brown)...develop their body, polish their skills, or some combination of all three.

Brown is raw from an understanding & skill POV; Obi was raw from a skill & physique POV...while also having some understanding to catch up on; especially on the defensive end, given his lack of experience defending as a big. Ziaire's raw for primarily physical reasons...his skills will need to improve further too for him to become a star, but they aren't going to prevent him from contributing early like his strength may. Ditto his BBIQ; he'll need time to learn & adapt to the new level, like any prospect, but you won't need to teach him to basketball like Brown or Kai Jones.

[Jeff Van Gully]

cameron thomas thoughts?

If we move Quickley, he'd be a nice replacement. Kid can really go off, but I didn't see much playmaking when I caught him & he's not exactly an intense defender.

He's in the same tier of guards, but I like Butler & Mann a lot more.

yeah. 3 and no D guard who doesn't pass. but, man can he shoot it. stationary, on the move. you'd like to think he could be coached and cultured into being part of a machine. he has an offensive skill set we desperately need.

[cgf]

cameron thomas thoughts?

If we move Quickley, he'd be a nice replacement. Kid can really go off, but I didn't see much playmaking when I caught him & he's not exactly an intense defender.

He's in the same tier of guards, but I like Butler & Mann a lot more.

yeah. 3 and no D guard who doesn't pass. but, man can he shoot it. stationary, on the move. you'd like to think he could be coached and cultured into being part of a machine. he has an offensive skill set we desperately need.

Yeah, I wouldn't lose my s*** if we spent a pick on him; I just like Butler more and think Mann has more interesting potential if Butler goes before us.

[iLLmatic860]

What kentucky or caa players are we projected to draft in 19 & 21 range?

[jvsimonetti0514]

cameron thomas thoughts?

If we move Quickley, he'd be a nice replacement. Kid can really go off, but I didn't see much playmaking when I caught him & he's not exactly an intense defender.

He's in the same tier of guards, but I like Butler & Mann a lot more.

are you comparing him to IQ or just saying they'd play similar roles? Cuz the later I definitely agree with but the former not so much. Thomas has a much better pull up game and finishing package than IQ

[WargamesX]

Watch on YouTube

if he gets into NBA shape he could help a lot

[louisorr]

cameron thomas thoughts?

no left

[knickstape4ever]

cameron thomas thoughts?

If we move Quickley, he'd be a nice replacement. Kid can really go off, but I didn't see much playmaking when I caught him & he's not exactly an intense defender.

He's in the same tier of guards, but I like Butler & Mann a lot more.

yeah. 3 and no D guard who doesn't pass. but, man can he shoot it. stationary, on the move. you'd like to think he could be coached and cultured into being part of a machine. he has an offensive skill set we desperately need.

he's not just a 3pt shooter. he's got a very versatile offensive game and can score at all 3 levels

[jakoub]

Mann & Butler are my 2021 IQ late round steals of the draft and hope the knicks draft 1 or both of them. Isaiah Jackson reminds me of Nerlens Noel. Kai Jones could be very good if for some reason he slips to the 19 range.

[cgf]

cameron thomas thoughts?

If we move Quickley, he'd be a nice replacement. Kid can really go off, but I didn't see much playmaking when I caught him & he's not exactly an intense defender.

He's in the same tier of guards, but I like Butler & Mann a lot more.

are you comparing him to IQ or just saying they'd play similar roles? Cuz the later I definitely agree with but the former not so much. Thomas has a much better pull up game and finishing package than IQ

They have differences in their skillsets but will probably fill similar roles...at least unless IQ becomes a legit PG.

[knickstape4ever]

cameron thomas thoughts?

If we move Quickley, he'd be a nice replacement. Kid can really go off, but I didn't see much playmaking when I caught him & he's not exactly an intense defender.

He's in the same tier of guards, but I like Butler & Mann a lot more.

are you comparing him to IQ or just saying they'd play similar roles? Cuz the later I definitely agree with but the former not so much. Thomas has a much better pull up game and finishing package than IQ

Thomas is more Lou Will than IQ b/c both he and Lou are really good pulling up in the mid-range and IQ doesn't have that in his game rn

[Oscirus]

Lebron gonna be in the league with someone that was a teammate of his son. Not too far from the dream