Towns or Okafor or Mudiay or Russel?

[moocow007]

I think some folks are stuck thinking just because the last 2 drafts hasn't produced anything that it means the Knicks shouldn't expect anything. But if you go back the 10 drafts before that and you'll see plenty of franchise type guys were gotten. Every draft had one at least.

2012 - Anthony Davis (1)
2011 - Kyrie Irving (1)
2010 - John Wall (1), Paul George (10)
2009 - Blake Griffin (1), James Harden (3), Steph Curry (7)
2008 - Derrick Rose (1), Russel Westbrook (4), Kevin Love (5)
2007 - Kevin Durant (2)
2006 - Lamarcus Aldridge (2)
2005 - Chris Paul (4)
2004 - Dwight Howard (1)
2003 - Lebron James (1), Carmelo Anthony (3), Chris Bosh (4), Dwayne Wade (5)

So just because the last 2 drafts were underwhelming doesn't mean this one will. The Knicks just need to find the right one.

But you know the saying: For every Kyrie Irving there's a Jan Vesely.

sure, but if it was that easy everyone would tank. hard is what makes it...well...not easy.

[mpharris36]

I think some folks are stuck thinking just because the last 2 drafts hasn't produced anything that it means the Knicks shouldn't expect anything. But if you go back the 10 drafts before that and you'll see plenty of franchise type guys were gotten. Every draft had one at least.

2012 - Anthony Davis (1), Damian Lillard (6)
2011 - Kyrie Irving (1)
2010 - John Wall (1), Paul George (10)
2009 - Blake Griffin (1), James Harden (3), Steph Curry (7)
2008 - Derrick Rose (1), Russel Westbrook (4), Kevin Love (5)
2007 - Kevin Durant (2)
2006 - Lamarcus Aldridge (2)
2005 - Chris Paul (4)
2004 - Dwight Howard (1)
2003 - Lebron James (1), Carmelo Anthony (3), Chris Bosh (4), Dwayne Wade (5)

So just because the last 2 drafts were underwhelming doesn't mean this one will. The Knicks just need to find the right one.

And to add onto that Wiggins has been really really good for MIN as well. He is avg close to 16 a game as a 19 yr old (just turned 20). He is also a plus defender. For a kid that young he has a really bright future.

Really outside of the 2013 draft with Anthony Bennett and that weak draft. That is the outlier. Most drafts get you a few really good/great NBA players in the top 10.

[JXL]

I think some folks are stuck thinking just because the last 2 drafts hasn't produced anything that it means the Knicks shouldn't expect anything. But if you go back the 10 drafts before that and you'll see plenty of franchise type guys were gotten. Every draft had one at least.

2012 - Anthony Davis (1)
2011 - Kyrie Irving (1)
2010 - John Wall (1), Paul George (10)
2009 - Blake Griffin (1), James Harden (3), Steph Curry (7)
2008 - Derrick Rose (1), Russel Westbrook (4), Kevin Love (5)
2007 - Kevin Durant (2)
2006 - Lamarcus Aldridge (2)
2005 - Chris Paul (4)
2004 - Dwight Howard (1)
2003 - Lebron James (1), Carmelo Anthony (3), Chris Bosh (4), Dwayne Wade (5)

So just because the last 2 drafts were underwhelming doesn't mean this one will. The Knicks just need to find the right one.

But you know the saying: For every Kyrie Irving there's a Jan Vesely.

sure, but if it was that easy everyone would tank. hard is what makes it...well...not easy.

To what the Sixers are doing, it's dreadful for the product, but easy for the GM.

[Meat]

I think some folks are stuck thinking just because the last 2 drafts hasn't produced anything that it means the Knicks shouldn't expect anything. But if you go back the 10 drafts before that and you'll see plenty of franchise type guys were gotten. Every draft had one at least.

2012 - Anthony Davis (1), Damian Lillard (6)
2011 - Kyrie Irving (1)
2010 - John Wall (1), Paul George (10)
2009 - Blake Griffin (1), James Harden (3), Steph Curry (7)
2008 - Derrick Rose (1), Russel Westbrook (4), Kevin Love (5)
2007 - Kevin Durant (2)
2006 - Lamarcus Aldridge (2)
2005 - Chris Paul (4)
2004 - Dwight Howard (1)
2003 - Lebron James (1), Carmelo Anthony (3), Chris Bosh (4), Dwayne Wade (5)

So just because the last 2 drafts were underwhelming doesn't mean this one will. The Knicks just need to find the right one.

the "some folks" are dumb because Wiggns is looking like a baller and Parker is as good offensively as advertised

[K_ick_God]

I want to study the Tourney but right now I say Okafor will be an incomplete player. That's a problem for a big and could lead to nowhere no matter how effective he is at scoring down low. I'd go with KAT because he either will blow up and be great on both sides or become a very valuable frontcourt piece who can do everything decently well and be a starter on a great team without frustrating you. Right now. Reserve the right to change my mind.

[ibraheim718]

Calipari told Francesa he thinks he is.

It's Cal's job to sell these kids because he wants to keep being the place one and done kids want to go. But make no mistake Towns is nothing like AD defensively.. nothing. AD has an insane ability to close out on shooters and is mobile enough to cover guards Towns isn't. People are being mesmerized by his effort and hustle and that leads them to think he's more versatile defensively than he really is.

The offense I'm curious about, but you're spot on defensively. AD has the quickness of a guard and is a shot blocker anywhere on the court because of his quick twitch muscles / quick short bursts of explosive movements. I like Towns, but he's not going to be chasing guys on the perimeter / switching onto smaller guards consistently and having the same effect AD has. He'll defend the rim fine, but that's a rim protector -- not a shot blocker.

Basically, AD is in a league of his own defensively.

Yeah offensively there are some similarities with regards to the touch on his J for a guy his size. AD is a better finisher, can fill the lane better and get out and run on the fast break like a wing. I think the biggest misconception with Towns is on the defensive end.. to me he's a true center and I wouldn't want him guarding any position other than center.

[And100]

As far as defense goes AD averaged 4.7 blocks (5.8 Blocks Per 40) while playing 32 minutes a game. Compare that to KAT who is averaging 2.2 blocks (4.3 Blocks per 40) WHILE ONLY PLAYING 20 MINUTES A GAME!!!! Really ponder what he'd be averaging if he had AD's minutes.

My iphone calculator says 3.8

32/40 = .80

4.3 * .80 = 3.8

[F N 11]

Eddy Curry was a good post scorer but sucked on Defense. Thats why im a little bit scared of Okafor.

[F N 11]

When I asked is Towns anything like Anthony Davis, I am talking about when AD was in college.

[ibraheim718]

Eddy Curry was a good post scorer but sucked on Defense. Thats why im a little bit scared of Okafor.

Yeah and Eddy Curry and Jahlil Okafor are two completely different people.

[ibraheim718]

When I asked is Towns anything like Anthony Davis, I am talking about when AD was in college.

No.

[moocow007]

Kevin Love also had serious defensive issues at UCLA (an example). Would folks be upset with a young Kevin Love? I think folks may be looking for too perfect a player. A player that really doesn't exist. Towns isn't Anthony Davis. Doesn't possess Davis' athleticism or ball handling skills. I question the effectiveness of his offensive game in the NBA. Does that mean we should disregard Towns as well? No. And if we are going on best all around college big then wed be talking about the pleighboi that is Frank Kaminsky being better than Okafor or Towns cause riht now, at the college level, Kaminsky is the best all around big,,,its why a lot feel right now hes the player of the year...and we certainly aren't talking about Kaminsky being 1st overall.

[And100]

Kevin Love also had serious defensive issues at UCLA (an example). Would folks be upset with a young Kevin Love? I think folks may be looking for too perfect a player. A player that really doesn't exist. Towns isn't Anthony Davis. Doesn't possess Davis' athleticism or ball handling skills. I question the effectiveness of his offensive game in the NBA. Does that mean we should disregard Towns as well? No. And if we are going on best all around college big then wed be talking about the pleighboi that is Frank Kaminsky being better than Okafor or Towns cause riht now, at the college level, Kaminsky is the best all around big,,,its why a lot feel right now hes the player of the year...and we certainly aren't talking about Kaminsky being 1st overall.

I think this dovetails interestingly with the discussion on Middleton. Do you draft to increase you odds to land a solid player, or do you draft prioritizing projectable upside, in its own way a method of "spending" on potential rather than proven production, since a draft pick is a spendable commodity same as salary.

[K_ick_God]

Kevin Love also had serious defensive issues at UCLA (an example). Would folks be upset with a young Kevin Love? I think folks may be looking for too perfect a player. A player that really doesn't exist. Towns isn't Anthony Davis. Doesn't possess Davis' athleticism or ball handling skills. I question the effectiveness of his offensive game in the NBA. Does that mean we should disregard Towns as well? No. And if we are going on best all around college big then wed be talking about the pleighboi that is Frank Kaminsky being better than Okafor or Towns cause riht now, at the college level, Kaminsky is the best all around big,,,its why a lot feel right now hes the player of the year...and we certainly aren't talking about Kaminsky being 1st overall.

I think this dovetails interestingly with the discussion on Middleton. Do you draft to increase you odds to land a solid player, or do you draft prioritizing projectable upside, in its own way a method of "spending" on potential rather than proven production, since a draft pick is a spendable commodity same as salary.

Well if we go based on the Cavs, I think Love is a pretty big waste. Just stands there at the 3-point line and is not mobile enough to move without the ball or shoot on the move. He just gives the ball back to LeBron, as Bron becomes exhausted. They don't fit at all. Now obviously Okafor is mobile and you WILL be able to dump the ball down to him and get scores -- so different kind of thing altogether -- but when a big lacks D, he is a problem. It's a big part of the problem with Love too. If he played D, you could live with him just standing at the 3 line.

Also Love can't really finish in traffic or in a rush down low because he can't jump.

Bit OT but I'm going to go out on a limb and say Love is a pretty awful Max for Cleveland. JR fits better, as does Mozgov and probably Shump. Love is a terrible fit with Bron.

[el13adnino]

I hate the facts there is no clear cut must have top pics. Knicks cannot blow this one lol

i cant wait until the knicks find a way to fcuk this up

You can't wait until the Knicks **** this up?? Wow. This is the kind of things that blow my mind that people who call themselves Knicks fans have the nuts to even say. You're not a Knicks fan. Not a real one for sure.

haha ok

im a knicks season ticket holder .... how bout u?

[moocow007]

Kevin Love also had serious defensive issues at UCLA (an example). Would folks be upset with a young Kevin Love? I think folks may be looking for too perfect a player. A player that really doesn't exist. Towns isn't Anthony Davis. Doesn't possess Davis' athleticism or ball handling skills. I question the effectiveness of his offensive game in the NBA. Does that mean we should disregard Towns as well? No. And if we are going on best all around college big then wed be talking about the pleighboi that is Frank Kaminsky being better than Okafor or Towns cause riht now, at the college level, Kaminsky is the best all around big,,,its why a lot feel right now hes the player of the year...and we certainly aren't talking about Kaminsky being 1st overall.

I think this dovetails interestingly with the discussion on Middleton. Do you draft to increase you odds to land a solid player, or do you draft prioritizing projectable upside, in its own way a method of "spending" on potential rather than proven production, since a draft pick is a spendable commodity same as salary.

Theres:

a. Great offense, average-bad defense
b. Great defense, average-bad offense
c. Good defense, good offense

All 3 potentially can be role players. But depending on the degree of "great" we could be talking big impact players. Have to go no further than our own Carmelo Anthony to see a big impact player. Compare Anthony to someone like Rudy Gay who is not as great offensively to be considered a big impact player. Deandre Jordan, a great impact player. Now compare him to a Omer Asik who is not as great defensively to be considered an impact player. It's about degree of the thing the player is good at. You can't look at things in absolutes. And just because a guy is not good at one side of the court or the other doesn't mean he can't be an impact player. Like I said, folks are looking for perfection. There is no LeBron or Shaq here.

[god shammgod]

no matter who we draft, there's gonna be a lot on his shoulders. go to philly and you can slowly develop. here, better be ready to play because that slow start sh*t is not gonna play next year.

[TrueWarrior]

Kevin Love also had serious defensive issues at UCLA (an example). Would folks be upset with a young Kevin Love? I think folks may be looking for too perfect a player. A player that really doesn't exist. Towns isn't Anthony Davis. Doesn't possess Davis' athleticism or ball handling skills. I question the effectiveness of his offensive game in the NBA. Does that mean we should disregard Towns as well? No. And if we are going on best all around college big then wed be talking about the pleighboi that is Frank Kaminsky being better than Okafor or Towns cause riht now, at the college level, Kaminsky is the best all around big,,,its why a lot feel right now hes the player of the year...and we certainly aren't talking about Kaminsky being 1st overall.

I think this dovetails interestingly with the discussion on Middleton. Do you draft to increase you odds to land a solid player, or do you draft prioritizing projectable upside, in its own way a method of "spending" on potential rather than proven production, since a draft pick is a spendable commodity same as salary.

Theres:

a. Great offense, average-bad defense
b. Great defense, average-bad offense
c. Good defense, good offense

All 3 potentially can be role players. But depending on the degree of "great" we could be talking big impact players. Have to go no further than our own Carmelo Anthony to see a big impact player. Compare Anthony to someone like Rudy Gay who is not as great offensively to be considered a big impact player. Deandre Jordan, a great impact player. Now compare him to a Omer Asik who is not as great defensively to be considered an impact player. It's about degree of the thing the player is good at. You can't look at things in absolutes. And just because a guy is not good at one side of the court or the other doesn't mean he can't be an impact player. Like I said, folks are looking for perfection. There is no LeBron or Shaq here.

I agree with you about not dealing in absolutes my lord, but defense from a center is much more important than a SF. There aren't any good teams with a below average defensive center. It's so essential now since all the rule changes have made perimeter defense much harder. A guy like Mozgov helps the Cavs so much.

[moocow007]

As far as Towns go, he does not possess elite athleticism. While he's blocking the most shots on the team, there's not been enough of him that says he's even the best defender on the Kentucky team. Right now WCS is the better defender by a noticeable margin. Towns may be the most stable/reliable offensive player on Kentucky but is that a compliment for Towns offense or criticism of the Wildcats lack of a reliable offensive player? The reason they struggled against Georgia was because they don't have anyone that you can rely on to create their own shot when you need it. Kentucky creates a good deal of offense off their defense. They do not have anyone that I would consider an offensive go to guy. Andrew Harrison is about as streaky a scorer as you can get. Booker is a shooter, not a scorer. Their bigs rely on their athleticism and size to score rather than any refined skill set. So Towns being the Wildcats most reliable offensive option doesn't really say all that much. Without question, Towns has upside. But I thought in folks are seeing more than is there right now.

[moocow007]

I think this dovetails interestingly with the discussion on Middleton. Do you draft to increase you odds to land a solid player, or do you draft prioritizing projectable upside, in its own way a method of "spending" on potential rather than proven production, since a draft pick is a spendable commodity same as salary.

Theres:

a. Great offense, average-bad defense
b. Great defense, average-bad offense
c. Good defense, good offense

All 3 potentially can be role players. But depending on the degree of "great" we could be talking big impact players. Have to go no further than our own Carmelo Anthony to see a big impact player. Compare Anthony to someone like Rudy Gay who is not as great offensively to be considered a big impact player. Deandre Jordan, a great impact player. Now compare him to a Omer Asik who is not as great defensively to be considered an impact player. It's about degree of the thing the player is good at. You can't look at things in absolutes. And just because a guy is not good at one side of the court or the other doesn't mean he can't be an impact player. Like I said, folks are looking for perfection. There is no LeBron or Shaq here.

I agree with you about not dealing in absolutes my lord, but defense from a center is much more important than a SF. There aren't any good teams with a below average defensive center. It's so essential now since all the rule changes have made perimeter defense much harder. A guy like Mozgov helps the Cavs so much.

Sure but if defense is the end all be all then Willie Cauley Stein should be the guy discussed cause his defensive potential is off the charts. A big athletic 7 footer that can guard any position anywhere. You just have to deal with his sometimes space cadet behavior. I think we are looking for something more right? Problem is there may not be that great all around NBA guy.