Magic PG: So Let Me Get This Straight...

[FemaleDogPlease]

The Knicks need to bring Rose and Noah off the bench. The problem is Rose is in a contract year and we know how Noah feels about coming off the bench.

O'Quinn
KP
Melo
Lee
Jennings

2nd unit
Noah
Holiday
Rose

Jennings moves the ball better than Rose and actually looks to dish the ball.

I've been calling for
Jennings
Rose
Lee
Melo
KP

You cant start Jennings and Rose because they cant shoot and will kill spacing. Secondly, the bench wouldn't have a PG.

Send Rose to the bench so he can get his Amare on. Noah is just terrible.

[Knicksfan1992]

The offense doesn't get Melo the ball in spots where he can get efficienct good looks.

Should Melo make his moves quicker? Yes. But guys standing around doesn't help either. Offense looks great when guys are hitting shots. Last night was a good example. Knicks moving the ball and bricking. Then Orlando hits a 3. Next thing you know Knicks are down then Melo starts chucking.

Carmelo isn't the only one with lack luster defense. Clyde and Green were making excuses for Lance that he was coming back from injury.

Yup. This is spot on. You can't just put players in positions that aren't conducive to them succeeding and then get mad when they don't succeed. Melo isn't a 3 anymore and shouldn't be forced to guard 3's and then be the only one getting blamed when he doesn't guard them well. Something needs to change to let Melo play the 4 most of the time. I guarantee you he would become way more efficient and less of a defensive liability if that's done. Problem is as Shamm stated earlier we don't really have that swing 3/4 we can play next to Melo defensively and offensively. The hope was LT could do it but, he's proven he can't as of now. We have a glut of 5's and yet we suck at rebounding which exacerbates our issues defensively. Really this team is kind of a mess right now but, they just have to figure a way out to get to average defense so maybe we can make a push for a 5 seed and lose in the 2nd round in the Cavs to save face and prop ourselves up to FA's because we've won too many games already to effectively tank.

before yesterday i was still thinking about solutions but i don't know now. it it really worth it to try to fix this. we can't get to the top 5 picks but we can get to the top 10.

What good does that do us though? If you're going to tank you have to commit all year. You can't just half tank or you're just going to keep getting role players more than likely. This team at worst will win 30 games unless you force Melo out and then maybe it's 25. Maybe make a trade here or there to try and find a wing that can help us defensively. Commit to small ball because we can't rebound anyway. Is this a really bad stretch? Yeah sure but, at one point this team was comfortably over 500. You don't just become bad overnight. Yes, the signs were somewhat there that we were playing over our heads but, we weren't awful like this. Shuffle the players around and hope. That's the best you can do. I'd dangle Willy out there to balance out the roster. I don't think he's too special anyway. And take on an equally bad contract for Noah but, at least get a wing that can fit.

[Sark]

You gotta give Hornacek a chance with KP + 2017 pick, sans Melo. You can't really judge him on what he is doing with a veteran laden team like this, if you are trying to judge him on whether or not he should be kept.

If he totally sucks with a younger core, then sure let him go. But there is nothing to replace him with now. Outside of Rambis, no one else would take this job.

[dakomish23]

Melo stumped for Woodson because he didn't like D'Antoni's offense. He like Woodson because he let him ISO and switch, as pointed out.

By midway through Potato Head's 1st (ok, was it 2nd?) he had clearly LOST the team. Gee, I wonder why.

He lost the team because they went away from what worked and they were losing.

And still proves my point that Melo did not in any way shape or form push Woodson out the door

Knicks keep turning the roster over, turning the coaches over, and yet still play offense a certain way and tend to have the same issues on defense? Yet who is the constant? I've generally supported Melo but it's time to see what the issue is.

Players can be good but ultimately not that conducive to good teams. Part of it is the Knicks, always firing coaches and trying another. But the teams sure do seem to quit or tune coaches out here pretty damn quick. I'm not saying Melo led the revolt on Woodson. He lost the team; it was clear as day. But it sure seems to be a trend that coaches get tuned out pretty quick. Some of them deserve it, others maybe not.

Could the reason that they have to keep turning the roster over is because the guys they had arent that good but were asked to do way more than possible because this FO sucks? Have you ever seen a top player have such pathetic help?

Toney Douglas as your staring PG in 11-12 is Melo's fault? Amare taking 33% of the cap to play 33% of the game is his fault too? At his peak he dragged a team with Felton as the starter & JR as the #2 option to 54 wins. And folks here are giving the credit to Sheed and Camby did Melo make the Bargs deal? That's one of the worst deals in recent NBA history.

Melo's had the worst year of his career to date. No denying that. But this idea that it's his fault that the roster keeps changing or that a new GM puts in his coach m, then fires that coach (!!!!!) is ridiculous.

But someone has to be the scapegoat. I can't wait till Melo is gone and maybe you will put the blame where it should be. Melo shouldn't be absolved but he is far from the main culprit in this script

Folks are literally putting years of foolish FO management on Melo.

[dakomish23]

The Knicks need to bring Rose and Noah off the bench. The problem is Rose is in a contract year and we know how Noah feels about coming off the bench.

O'Quinn
KP
Melo
Lee
Jennings

2nd unit
Noah
Holiday
Rose

Jennings moves the ball better than Rose and actually looks to dish the ball.

I've been calling for
Jennings
Rose
Lee
Melo
KP

You cant start Jennings and Rose because they cant shoot and will kill spacing. Secondly, the bench wouldn't have a PG.

Send Rose to the bench so he can get his Amare on. Noah is just terrible.

Start Holiday

[dakomish23]

And now folks are saying that it's ok for a player to say "I didn't come to NY for this" because, guess what, they want to blame Melo

what a pathetic group

[KnickFan33]

He lost the team because they went away from what worked and they were losing.

And still proves my point that Melo did not in any way shape or form push Woodson out the door

Knicks keep turning the roster over, turning the coaches over, and yet still play offense a certain way and tend to have the same issues on defense? Yet who is the constant? I've generally supported Melo but it's time to see what the issue is.

Players can be good but ultimately not that conducive to good teams. Part of it is the Knicks, always firing coaches and trying another. But the teams sure do seem to quit or tune coaches out here pretty damn quick. I'm not saying Melo led the revolt on Woodson. He lost the team; it was clear as day. But it sure seems to be a trend that coaches get tuned out pretty quick. Some of them deserve it, others maybe not.

Could the reason that they have to keep turning the roster over is because the guys they had arent that good but were asked to do way more than possible because this FO sucks? Have you ever seen a top player have such pathetic help?

Toney Douglas as your staring PG in 11-12 is Melo's fault? Amare taking 33% of the cap to play 33% of the game is his fault too? At his peak he dragged a team with Felton as the starter & JR as the #2 option to 54 wins. And folks here are giving the credit to Sheed and Camby did Melo make the Bargs deal? That's one of the worst deals in recent NBA history.

Melo's had the worst year of his career to date. No denying that. But this idea that it's his fault that the roster keeps changing or that a new GM puts in his coach m, then fires that coach (!!!!!) is ridiculous.

But someone has to be the scapegoat. I can't wait till Melo is gone and maybe you will put the blame where it should be. Melo shouldn't be absolved but he is far from the main culprit in this script

Folks are literally putting years of foolish FO management on Melo.

I think the reason is more the fan base. As the saying goes... "You can't rebuild in New York."

For the most part, I think moves made have been focused towards pleasing the casual fan base. And what placates the casual fan? Big names, regardless of how they may affect a team.

[Greenie]

they can't trade noah. he's paid too much. the reason melo has to be play 3 is because we loaded up on 5s. they have to play two 5s together all the time because we don't even really have 4s. the reason all these things are happening is one person.

Problem is KP is neither an effective 4 or 5 on defense. He can't get out to stretch 4's nor can he rebound effectively enough to be a 5 next to Melo at the 4. It's an issue that's going either unspoken on this board because no one wants to say it because it's KP or it's being flat out ignored. Until our 7 foot 3 guy can get double digit rebounds consistently we're going to be stuck with a chit defense that gives up way too many second chance points. And it has a trickle down effect on the rest of the personnel on defense. Just the reality of the situation.

as you say, he's not really great on d at the 4 or 5. but playing the 5 will let him be more of a rim protector and will give us an advantage on o because he'll take the other center outside. it's worth a try.

Yep

[Greenie]

its not even that his D isnt good, he gives no god damn effort, i swear we can pluck in someone off the street and they would give betetr effort on the Defensive end. Entire team outside of KP is a mess

KP has been a mess too.
Stop excluding him.
He's in the circle too.

[prophet_of_rage]

Hoodwinked?

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using RealGM mobile app

we back

Never left. Time always tells.

[Sark]

KP is pretty good at defense. He just looks bad sometimes because he has to cover for Melo.

[El Poochio]

its not even that his D isnt good, he gives no god damn effort, i swear we can pluck in someone off the street and they would give betetr effort on the Defensive end. Entire team outside of KP is a mess

KP has been a mess too.
Stop excluding him.
He's in the circle too.

He is been our best player this year to be honest, keeps us competitive nearly every game at least, when he is missing we get blown out at home to Magic, a bad defensive team without their best defensive player is horrible

[Reign23]

I'm still mad... oh man I wish i had a time machine and would never ever become a knicks fan again. -.-

[F N 11]

its not even that his D isnt good, he gives no god damn effort, i swear we can pluck in someone off the street and they would give betetr effort on the Defensive end. Entire team outside of KP is a mess

KP has been a mess too.
Stop excluding him.
He's in the circle too.

He has to help every time. Well he doesnt have to but he chooses to help his team and in return his man usually burns him. Everyone is in the fire. Its a team sport but some deserve more criticism than others. I know its 1 game but Lee got absolutely torched.

[F N 11]

I'm still mad... oh man I wish i had a time machine and would never ever become a knicks fan again. -.-

99 season was the year I became a knick fan. I was an 11 year old who was a Jordan fan before that. That 99 team is NYC. Tough, Rugged, crazy,emotional, and clutch.

Man after that season we just went down hill. I stuck with them though. Spurs fans are lucky.

[Mike Breen]

its not even that his D isnt good, he gives no god damn effort, i swear we can pluck in someone off the street and they would give betetr effort on the Defensive end. Entire team outside of KP is a mess

KP has been a mess too.
Stop excluding him.
He's in the circle too.

KP has not been a mess. He's had a couple of rough shooting games, but he's been at worst average on both offense and defense. Melo has been straight up horrible on defense.

[Capn'O]

KP is pretty good at defense. He just looks bad sometimes because he has to cover for Melo.

Gobert. My God.

Those mf'ers have mostly figured out that you don't challenge KP at the rim but some still do.

I'm praying that this team will get blown up...

time to bottom out.

And now folks are saying that it's ok for a player to say "I didn't come to NY for this" because, guess what, they want to blame Melo

Wrong focus. Both yours and those that think the team will improve if he leaves. They'll be really bad. But who cares. The question is who can be part of a solution, now and in the future. Keeping/acquiring players like that. Melo ain't moving the needle back. Particularly with his effort on the defensive end.

[dakomish23]

Knicks keep turning the roster over, turning the coaches over, and yet still play offense a certain way and tend to have the same issues on defense? Yet who is the constant? I've generally supported Melo but it's time to see what the issue is.

Players can be good but ultimately not that conducive to good teams. Part of it is the Knicks, always firing coaches and trying another. But the teams sure do seem to quit or tune coaches out here pretty damn quick. I'm not saying Melo led the revolt on Woodson. He lost the team; it was clear as day. But it sure seems to be a trend that coaches get tuned out pretty quick. Some of them deserve it, others maybe not.

Could the reason that they have to keep turning the roster over is because the guys they had arent that good but were asked to do way more than possible because this FO sucks? Have you ever seen a top player have such pathetic help?

Toney Douglas as your staring PG in 11-12 is Melo's fault? Amare taking 33% of the cap to play 33% of the game is his fault too? At his peak he dragged a team with Felton as the starter & JR as the #2 option to 54 wins. And folks here are giving the credit to Sheed and Camby did Melo make the Bargs deal? That's one of the worst deals in recent NBA history.

Melo's had the worst year of his career to date. No denying that. But this idea that it's his fault that the roster keeps changing or that a new GM puts in his coach m, then fires that coach (!!!!!) is ridiculous.

But someone has to be the scapegoat. I can't wait till Melo is gone and maybe you will put the blame where it should be. Melo shouldn't be absolved but he is far from the main culprit in this script

Folks are literally putting years of foolish FO management on Melo.

I think the reason is more the fan base. As the saying goes... "You can't rebuild in New York."

For the most part, I think moves made have been focused towards pleasing the casual fan base. And what placates the casual fan? Big names, regardless of how they may affect a team.

What other plausible reason would there be to sign Noah to such a ludicrous contract?

If you look at all the FO decisions made since the Melo trade, how many of them would rank amongst the worst 50 of all teams combined over that time period?

Opting into Billups, only to amnesty him. So then you couldn't amnesty Amare to get Melo help in his prime

Letting Lin go for nothing

Trading picks to give contracts that you end up wanting to dump anyway - Camby / Felton, I'm sure I'm missing folks

The Bargs deal - which to me is the worst trade in the last 5 years. Absolutely zero value from it. Can't even do a ratio of value to cost because the value is zero.

The Tyson trade that literally gave us nothing back. Not one piece is on this team 2 years later.

Now the Noah deal

Not sure how folks don't see all the monumental failures of this franchise and instead say, "F u Melo, a true champion would make this work".

Newsflash - the best players would of left this god forsaken franchise in 2014 with zero regrets

[F N 11]

KP is pretty good at defense. He just looks bad sometimes because he has to cover for Melo.

Gobert. My God.

Those mf'ers have mostly figured out that you don't challenge KP at the rim but some still do.

I'm praying that this team will get blown up...

time to bottom out.

And now folks are saying that it's ok for a player to say "I didn't come to NY for this" because, guess what, they want to blame Melo

Wrong focus. Both yours and those that think the team will improve if he leaves. They'll be really bad. But who cares. The question is who can be part of a solution, now and in the future. Keeping/acquiring players like that. Melo ain't moving the needle back. Particularly with his effort on the defensive end.

Embiid is going to be a beast for years as well as KP. They havent even tapped full potential. Prime KP is something really scary to think about.

[Adelheid]

its not even that his D isnt good, he gives no god damn effort, i swear we can pluck in someone off the street and they would give betetr effort on the Defensive end. Entire team outside of KP is a mess

KP has been a mess too.
Stop excluding him.
He's in the circle too.

KP has not been a mess. He's had a couple of rough shooting games, but he's been at worst average on both offense and defense. Melo has been straight up horrible on defense.

KP has to be on 2 places -- defending the paint and defending the 4. Might have been the reason for the sore acl and the long playing times made things worse.