Re: Sexton Convo, Update PG: 15 - Knicks most aggressive suitor

[3toheadmelo]

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[NoDopeOnSundays]

I've been saying he'd be a target for months, Leon was his agent, and he fits a big need we have with shot creation at guard. He has some warts, but lack of effort isn't one of them. He's the type of player that could be good in a better environment as long as you realize he's not a PG, if you look at him as a smaller SG then you're on the right track.

We would need a big guard to play next to him that can run offense though or will look to move the ball.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Sexton’s third year is worst than Bookers rookie year though. His best year is worst than bookers worst year but this is supposed to make a point

With the exception of Sexton's rookie year their +/- isn't really that different at all. Booker even regressed from his 2nd and 3rd year. It would have been really easy to look at those numbers and say he's just an empty stats but around the right personal he was able to make a positive impact.

The stats show Booker was better than Sexton every year in the league.

Anyhow it’s an absurd argument to compare Sexton to Booker and Lavine because two of them are 6’6 SG’s and the other (Sexton) is a 6’1 SG. If Sexton was 6’6 and played the game he did the Cavs wouldn’t be trading him.

Let's compare rosters of each guys third year. Bookers third year in the league had Ayton, Mikal, Ariza, Jamal Crawford, Tyson Chandler, Oubre, TJ Warren.

Sexton has Garland, Okoro, Larry Nance jr, Cedi Osman, Love, Drummond and Allen both who weren't with the team the entire year. Love also only played 25 games FWIW

There's definitely a lot more talent on that Suns team compared to the Cavs and I think that can easily explain the difference of 19 in their plus/minus

[3toheadmelo]

The guy kept saying “I think” and said “wouldn’t you want to play in NY and Miami”

Sounds like no sources, he’s a fan.

Well damn

He seemed like someone that had sources to me. He said he talked with teams around the league to gauge Collin's worth and was told 18-25 million. Also talked about how Sexton was interested in Miami to play with Butler cuz of their similar personalities. I mean maybe he was just speculating but seemed legit.

Found this. He is speaking like he knows something

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[Sark]

Sexton is very overrated. Knox + pick#21 is all he is worth. Putting Obi in makes it robbery for them.

There's a reason he's on the trade market after 3 years. Cleveland knows he is not good, and have zero interest in paying him.

[3toheadmelo]

With the exception of Sexton's rookie year their +/- isn't really that different at all. Booker even regressed from his 2nd and 3rd year. It would have been really easy to look at those numbers and say he's just an empty stats but around the right personal he was able to make a positive impact.

The stats show Booker was better than Sexton every year in the league.

Anyhow it’s an absurd argument to compare Sexton to Booker and Lavine because two of them are 6’6 SG’s and the other (Sexton) is a 6’1 SG. If Sexton was 6’6 and played the game he did the Cavs wouldn’t be trading him.

Let's compare rosters of each guys third year. Bookers third year in the league had Ayton, Mikal, Ariza, Jamal Crawford, Tyson Chandler, Oubre, TJ Warren.

Sexton has Garland, Okoro, Larry Nance jr, Cedi Osman, Love, Drummond and Allen both who weren't with the team the entire year. Love also only played 25 games FWIW

There's definitely a lot more talent on that Suns team compared to the Cavs and I think that can easily explain the difference of 19 in their plus/minus

Besides Garland that whole roster is garbage. I don’t know how anyone can blame Sexton for the Cavs being so bad

[jvsimonetti0514]

Well damn

He seemed like someone that had sources to me. He said he talked with teams around the league to gauge Collin's worth and was told 18-25 million. Also talked about how Sexton was interested in Miami to play with Butler cuz of their similar personalities. I mean maybe he was just speculating but seemed legit.

Found this. He is speaking like he knows something

Read on Twitter

that's the quote I was referencing in my post as well. The butler stuff seems a little too specific to just be speculation

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Sexton is very overrated. Knox + pick#21 is all he is worth. Putting Obi in makes it robbery for them.

There's a reason he's on the trade market after 3 years. Cleveland knows he is not good, and have zero interest in paying him.

Kyle Lowry bounced around the league until he was 26 years old, you guys make these comments as though poorly run teams don't make poor decisions on players.


Sexton is a good young guard, he doesn't fit with Cleveland because they have another young guard who is the same size, they can't play them both and Sexton isn't going to want to come off the bench if the Cavs draft a wing.

[Sark]

Sexton is very overrated. Knox + pick#21 is all he is worth. Putting Obi in makes it robbery for them.

There's a reason he's on the trade market after 3 years. Cleveland knows he is not good, and have zero interest in paying him.

Kyle Lowry bounced around the league until he was 26 years old, you guys make these comments as though poorly run teams don't make poor decisions on players.


Sexton is a good young guard, he doesn't fit with Cleveland because they have another young guard who is the same size, they can't play them both and Sexton isn't going to want to come off the bench if the Cavs draft a wing.

I'm not suggesting to not trade for him. I'm suggesting that we don't overpay.

Obi showed enough progress at the end of the year, that he's worth keeping.

[3toheadmelo]

Luca Vildoza vs team USA rn

[WargamesX]

With the exception of Sexton's rookie year their +/- isn't really that different at all. Booker even regressed from his 2nd and 3rd year. It would have been really easy to look at those numbers and say he's just an empty stats but around the right personal he was able to make a positive impact.

The stats show Booker was better than Sexton every year in the league.

Anyhow it’s an absurd argument to compare Sexton to Booker and Lavine because two of them are 6’6 SG’s and the other (Sexton) is a 6’1 SG. If Sexton was 6’6 and played the game he did the Cavs wouldn’t be trading him.

Let's compare rosters of each guys third year. Bookers third year in the league had Ayton, Mikal, Ariza, Jamal Crawford, Tyson Chandler, Oubre, TJ Warren.

Sexton has Garland, Okoro, Larry Nance jr, Cedi Osman, Love, Drummond and Allen both who weren't with the team the entire year. Love also only played 25 games FWIW

There's definitely a lot more talent on that Suns team compared to the Cavs and I think that can easily explain the difference of 19 in their plus/minus

At that point the Suns sucked. Come on does no one remember older players and past seasons of other teams squads?

TJ warren was the equivalent of Garland (actually Garland is better)
Oubre sucked because he played bad basketball (still does)
Mikal was OK
Ayton was raw
Tyson and Jamal were shells of their former selves
Ariza was ok but his best years were behind him and they traded him.

It’s a wash. Plus Booker is a SG who has SG height…. Comparing Sexton to guys 4-5 inches taller than him isn’t realistic.

[Gravy]

Knicks are doing the following:

Trading Knox, Obi, #21 for Sexton
Trading #19 for Lonzo Ball
Drafting that Belgian dude at 32
Flipping pick #58 for future 2nd rounders in 2028,2029

Buzztrodamus has spoken

I would be irrationally hyped if we drafted that Blerghs guy. Could be a complete bust or hidden gem.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Sexton is very overrated. Knox + pick#21 is all he is worth. Putting Obi in makes it robbery for them.

There's a reason he's on the trade market after 3 years. Cleveland knows he is not good, and have zero interest in paying him.

Kyle Lowry bounced around the league until he was 26 years old, you guys make these comments as though poorly run teams don't make poor decisions on players.


Sexton is a good young guard, he doesn't fit with Cleveland because they have another young guard who is the same size, they can't play them both and Sexton isn't going to want to come off the bench if the Cavs draft a wing.

I'm not suggesting to not trade for him. I'm suggesting that we don't overpay.

Obi showed enough progress at the end of the year, that he's worth keeping.

I don't see how it's an overpay, we'd be trading 1 rotational player and a pick for a starter, Knox doesn't even play so being included in the trade is moot.

Obi could be John Collins someday, that doesn't change the fact he's not going to be a starter anytime soon as long as Randle is on the team. If we played smallball lineups I could see wanting to keep Obi, but we don't and Thibs is going to play Randle 35-38mpg next season.

[Sark]

Kyle Lowry bounced around the league until he was 26 years old, you guys make these comments as though poorly run teams don't make poor decisions on players.


Sexton is a good young guard, he doesn't fit with Cleveland because they have another young guard who is the same size, they can't play them both and Sexton isn't going to want to come off the bench if the Cavs draft a wing.

I'm not suggesting to not trade for him. I'm suggesting that we don't overpay.

Obi showed enough progress at the end of the year, that he's worth keeping.

I don't see how it's an overpay, we'd be trading 1 rotational player and a pick for a starter, Knox doesn't even play so being included in the trade is moot.

Obi could be John Collins someday, that doesn't change the fact he's not going to be a starter anytime soon as long as Randle is on the team. If we played smallball lineups I could see wanting to keep Obi, but we don't and Thibs is going to play Randle 35-38mpg next season.

It's this type of thinking that has doomed the Knicks for the last 2 decades. Overpaying for marginal talent, and then not having enough assets when a big trade comes along.

I'm not opposed to trading Obi.

I'm opposed to giving up 3 assets for Collin Freaking Sexton, who does not move the needle at all.

[DowNY]

Sexton is very overrated. Knox + pick#21 is all he is worth. Putting Obi in makes it robbery for them.

There's a reason he's on the trade market after 3 years. Cleveland knows he is not good, and have zero interest in paying him.

Cleveland knows nothing. When have they proven to be such a great franchise outside of Lebron controlling things ?
Give me a break with this “if he’s so good, why is he getting traded from Cleveland” talk. They got rid of KPJ & he dropped 50 the next month. Some of y’all think yall have it all figured out on a 22 yr old who was the first 1st rd pick once Lebron left and had to play on trash teams.
I’ve seen how Thibs turned Julius around at 26, I’ll take my chances with Sexton at 22.

[RHODEY]

Brandon Jennings is probably the worst comp you can even give Sexton. In his 11 year career he shot over 40% from the field just twice and one year it was 40.1. At least who ever used Monte Ellis had a few years of similar efficiency to Sexton so that's at least fair.

Watch their games. Monta was a freak of Nature who I swear use to go into a game and decide “I’m going to score” and would only score but it would be a great scoring game. Then the media would complain and say he needs to pass and Monta would say “I’m going to pass” and that game would be a great passing game but the scoring would be a struggle.

Jennings was a scoring SG in a PG’s body, not a great defender, and he had a mean streak in him that if you gave him a reason he could drop 50 on you. Jennings had some 6 and 7 assist seasons but he wasn’t a great passer because everyone had to play off of him. His passing was C&S to stationary shooter, passing from the baseline (after defenders surrounded him on bad drives), transition or at the rim to Centers. To put it into perspective it would be level of passing RJ could do.

Keep in mind I am not even saying that isn’t the level of passing the Knicks need, but yeah Sexton plays like Jennings and just like Jennings he might be a little too ball dominant for his own good (aka winning), at the same time he plays his best when he is ball dominant so he needs to be ball dominant to play his best game.

Both Monta and Jennings would thrive as 6th man at best and I can’t see Sexton thriving in a starting unit where he has to lower his time on ball to maybe 20% tops

Which is why I didn't want him initially, but then I factored in the THibs effect and came away feeling ok with the idea. Nate Robinson was a beast under Thibs...

[Chanel Bomber]

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He’s a Brandon Jennings type PG. He can score, has a mean streak, and his game is not conductive to winning.

These stats are not a good look for Sexton but we must consider how:

- The Cavs have been a mess ever since he joined the NBA, with subpar coaching and even worse teammates. I look at his +/- moreso as an indictment against the Cavs, unless you think it was reasonable to expect him to carry a bum team out of the doldrums.

- Too much was expected of him early, with an unreasonable burden of leading a team of bums as a very young player.

- His efficiency in this role suggests that he could be even more efficient with a lighter burden. Efficient players tend to be adaptable and able to adjust to a lesser role. Sexton is much more efficient than Jennings ever was.

- Have to separate floor raisers vs ceiling raisers. Sexton doesn't (yet) have the feel for the game or the gravity to be a floor raiser, as was the case for Booker. But he could potentially make a good team better in a role that's more suited to his strengths.

I'm not completely sold on him, but him being available is a clear opportunity.

Right , he's in that grey area where his team stats are bad enough and he's redundant enoughto make him available but his individual stats and youth are good enough to suggest he could...

a) Improve from a team perspective or..

b) Retain enough value to be flipped down the line for another player who would help us.

I think it's that grey area the Knicks need to explore.

> It doesn't make sense to trade our best young players for win-now guys, especially since we don't know if Randle's actually worth building around (not saying he can't be part of our future).

> It doesn't make sense to rebuild and suck again after finally making the playoffs.

> Yet we need to find legit young talent to add to our core without having high-draft picks.

Looking for productive young players who are stuck in the wrong situation is the way to go imo. Lavine, Sexton, Garland...

[DowNY]

Sexton is very overrated. Knox + pick#21 is all he is worth. Putting Obi in makes it robbery for them.

There's a reason he's on the trade market after 3 years. Cleveland knows he is not good, and have zero interest in paying him.

Kyle Lowry bounced around the league until he was 26 years old, you guys make these comments as though poorly run teams don't make poor decisions on players.


Sexton is a good young guard, he doesn't fit with Cleveland because they have another young guard who is the same size, they can't play them both and Sexton isn't going to want to come off the bench if the Cavs draft a wing.

I'm not suggesting to not trade for him. I'm suggesting that we don't overpay.

Obi showed enough progress at the end of the year, that he's worth keeping.

Showed enough what? A game or few where he had 7 points and 6 rebounds? All the money we have in free agency and you don’t think we can replace that?

[Chanel Bomber]

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He’s a Brandon Jennings type PG. He can score, has a mean streak, and his game is not conductive to winning.

These stats are not a good look for Sexton but we must consider how:

- The Cavs have been a mess ever since he joined the NBA, with subpar coaching and even worse teammates. I look at his +/- moreso as an indictment against the Cavs, unless you think it was reasonable to expect him to carry a bum team out of the doldrums.

- Too much was expected of him early, with an unreasonable burden of leading a team of bums as a very young player.

- His efficiency in this role suggests that he could be even more efficient with a lighter burden. Efficient players tend to be adaptable and able to adjust to a lesser role. Sexton is much more efficient than Jennings ever was.

- Have to separate floor raisers vs ceiling raisers. Sexton doesn't (yet) have the feel for the game or the gravity to be a floor raiser, as was the case for Booker. But he could potentially make a good team better in a role that's more suited to his strengths.

I'm not completely sold on him, but him being available is a clear opportunity.

Feels like you are talking about Frank

Lol

Frank lowers the floor and the ceiling of any team that he's on.

[DowNY]

I take Kelly Olynyk as an Obi replacement