Ex-Knicks, Sh**posts, and Old Trades - OH MY!

[spree2kawhi]

One more and I promise I'll (try to) stop...

Last night was the Donte DiVincenzo Game. Everyone in Minnesota knows it.

Read on Twitter

Good for you. Donte is a real baller.

[Fury]

We could trade back for Donte when? End of next summer or next season?

[stuporman]

We could trade back for Donte when? End of next summer or next season?

As soon as the new NBA year happens in the summer I believe...

[Chanel Bomber]

Moved to different thread….



That protected first we used for Hart would have been gone to move Fournier in the deal.

Woj reported 3 picks Nyk 1sts, 2 swaps, 2 other picks, a bunch of 2nds….plus RJ and IQ or Grimes. Basically the assets we used to get OG, Hart, and Mikal

RJ and Grimes plus 3 firsts is the most high-end reporting of the return (perhaps a 1-2 additional pick swap). Inserting Grimes in the deal instead of IQ was always supposed to reduce the amount of outgoing draft picks, and he was the biggest sticking point.

Fournier's deal was mentioned as going to Utah and other places. There were different iterations. I don't know which report you're using - sources varied and talks kept evolving so the negotiations changed over time.

But we would still have had a protected pick plus Reddish for Hart. There was never any report by credible insiders about all our protected picks going in that trade.

We'd have kept IQ which means we'd still have the centerpiece of the OG trade.

If we still signed DDV in the subsequent summer, we'd still be able to package Randle and DDV for KAT.

The only big acquisition we couldn't pull off would be Bridges. And we'd have regained rights over two of our firsts as the trade went down over two years ago.

Listen, you can prefer this current iteration of the Knicks, as I do, but there's no need to cap about the Mitchell trade. We're good now. No need to make chit up to feel better about our present.

I posted the deal directly from Woj. Not making things up.

3 Nyk 1sts, 2 swaps, 2 other picks, a bunch of 2nds, RJ, Fournier and IQ or Grimes.

If you think we could have gotten Mitchell for 3 picks, RJ and IQ that is straight up delusional when he was traded for 3 picks, 2 swaps, Lauri, Sexton, and Agbaji (lottery pick in the draft).

Just use common sense. To beat Cleveland's offer, it would have to be something similar to what I posted. What you posted doesn't come close to beating the actual deal.

Plus on one hand your saying RJ can be the center piece of a deal for Mitchell, on the other hand he didn't matter to Toronto

With IQ vs Grimes, the issue is Mitchell and Brunson would be playing most of the minutes. There wouldn't have been much minutes or opportunity for IQ thus why he was preferred to be in the deal.

So basically every asset we used to get OG, Mikal and Hart would have been gone. It's almost word for word.... Combine the Mikal, Hart, OG trades and that's what Ainge wanted... Maybe a tad less.

Would have been a totally different team so tough to say. Rose def would have made more moves and maybe we get 2 of those 4. We certainly wouldn't have everyone. Don't think you can simply swap Mikal for Mitchell because it doesn't even work cap wise.

In the end I do love this team and where we are at. Just posting facts about what the deal actual was and saying I prefer this team.

Woj reported different returns as the negotiations went on.

But it was well reported that they were getting closer to an agreement around Grimes, RJ and 2 unprotected firsts, back when Grimes was our most valuable young player value wise. A protected first and pick swaps would have possibly been involved. That still leaves IQ, Cam, Obi, future unprotected firsts (not to mention the ones that renewed with years passing by), future protected firsts as tradeable assets, not to mention Randle down the line.

The 3 unprotected firsts were only requested when the Knicks tried to pivot from Grimes to Quickley.

The package with RJ, Grimes, 2 unprotected firsts, potential pick swaps, possibly 1-2 protected picks from other teams is the one the sides were closest on and it's the one I'm discussing. It would have been a positive trade for the Knicks.

Cleveland reportedly raised their offer to seal the deal after the Knicks shot themselves in the foot with the extension, which essentially took their out of sweepstakes.

But make no mistake, regardless of who's wrong or right about when the Cavs entered the fray, Cleveland are not regretting that trade, no matter how costly you paint the return out to be. Not even close. Mitchell is one of the best guards in the NBA and a hall-of-famer. The Cavs have the best record in the league.

And the Knicks would've still had the assets to trade for Hart, OG and KAT.

Again, you can prefer this iteration of the Knicks over the version with Mitchell. I think our team is more balanced in this way. But to regurgitate the party line and pretend that the Donovan Mitchell Knicks would have been depleted of assets and a failure is just not accurate, sorry. That's the kind of analysis I expect from the likes of Scott Perry.

[Jalen Bluntson]

RJ and Grimes plus 3 firsts is the most high-end reporting of the return (perhaps a 1-2 additional pick swap). Inserting Grimes in the deal instead of IQ was always supposed to reduce the amount of outgoing draft picks, and he was the biggest sticking point.

Fournier's deal was mentioned as going to Utah and other places. There were different iterations. I don't know which report you're using - sources varied and talks kept evolving so the negotiations changed over time.

But we would still have had a protected pick plus Reddish for Hart. There was never any report by credible insiders about all our protected picks going in that trade.

We'd have kept IQ which means we'd still have the centerpiece of the OG trade.

If we still signed DDV in the subsequent summer, we'd still be able to package Randle and DDV for KAT.

The only big acquisition we couldn't pull off would be Bridges. And we'd have regained rights over two of our firsts as the trade went down over two years ago.

Listen, you can prefer this current iteration of the Knicks, as I do, but there's no need to cap about the Mitchell trade. We're good now. No need to make chit up to feel better about our present.

I posted the deal directly from Woj. Not making things up.

3 Nyk 1sts, 2 swaps, 2 other picks, a bunch of 2nds, RJ, Fournier and IQ or Grimes.

If you think we could have gotten Mitchell for 3 picks, RJ and IQ that is straight up delusional when he was traded for 3 picks, 2 swaps, Lauri, Sexton, and Agbaji (lottery pick in the draft).

Just use common sense. To beat Cleveland's offer, it would have to be something similar to what I posted. What you posted doesn't come close to beating the actual deal.

Plus on one hand your saying RJ can be the center piece of a deal for Mitchell, on the other hand he didn't matter to Toronto

With IQ vs Grimes, the issue is Mitchell and Brunson would be playing most of the minutes. There wouldn't have been much minutes or opportunity for IQ thus why he was preferred to be in the deal.

So basically every asset we used to get OG, Mikal and Hart would have been gone. It's almost word for word.... Combine the Mikal, Hart, OG trades and that's what Ainge wanted... Maybe a tad less.

Would have been a totally different team so tough to say. Rose def would have made more moves and maybe we get 2 of those 4. We certainly wouldn't have everyone. Don't think you can simply swap Mikal for Mitchell because it doesn't even work cap wise.

In the end I do love this team and where we are at. Just posting facts about what the deal actual was and saying I prefer this team.

Woj reported different returns as the negotiations went on.

But it was well reported that they were getting closer to an agreement around Grimes, RJ and 2 unprotected firsts, back when Grimes was our most valuable young player value wise. A protected first and pick swaps would have possibly been involved. That still leaves IQ, Cam, Obi, future unprotected firsts (not to mention the ones that renewed with years passing by), future protected firsts as tradeable assets, not to mention Randle down the line.

The 3 unprotected firsts were only requested when the Knicks tried to pivot from Grimes to Quickley.

The package with RJ, Grimes, 2 unprotected firsts, potential pick swaps, possibly 1-2 protected picks from other teams is the one the sides were closest on and it's the one I'm discussing. It would have been a positive trade for the Knicks.

Cleveland reportedly raised their offer to seal the deal after the Knicks shot themselves in the foot with the extension, which essentially took their out of sweepstakes.

But make no mistake, regardless of who's wrong or right about when the Cavs entered the fray, Cleveland are not regretting that trade, no matter how costly you paint the return out to be. Not even close. Mitchell is one of the best guards in the NBA and a hall-of-famer. The Cavs have the best record in the league.

And the Knicks would've still had the assets to trade for Hart, OG and KAT.

Again, you can prefer this iteration of the Knicks over the version with Mitchell. I think our team is more balanced in this way. But to regurgitate the party line and pretend that the Donovan Mitchell Knicks would have been depleted of assets and a failure is just not accurate, sorry. That's the kind of analysis I expect from the likes of Scott Perry.

Seeing how we traded RJ/IQ for OG I fail to see how we get OG. Then we have Mitchell getting a Max extension and what else changes?

We wouldn't have this team plus Mitchell in any fantasy. Mikal isn't a Knick either because we used the picks for Mitchell. We would have Brunson/Mitchell/Randle and maybe Hart. Mitch in a walking boot. Good times.

[KnicksGadfly]

Moved to different thread….



That protected first we used for Hart would have been gone to move Fournier in the deal.

Woj reported 3 picks Nyk 1sts, 2 swaps, 2 other picks, a bunch of 2nds….plus RJ and IQ or Grimes. Basically the assets we used to get OG, Hart, and Mikal

RJ and Grimes plus 3 firsts is the most high-end reporting of the return (perhaps a 1-2 additional pick swap). Inserting Grimes in the deal instead of IQ was always supposed to reduce the amount of outgoing draft picks, and he was the biggest sticking point.

Fournier's deal was mentioned as going to Utah and other places. There were different iterations. I don't know which report you're using - sources varied and talks kept evolving so the negotiations changed over time.

But we would still have had a protected pick plus Reddish for Hart. There was never any report by credible insiders about all our protected picks going in that trade.

We'd have kept IQ which means we'd still have the centerpiece of the OG trade.

If we still signed DDV in the subsequent summer, we'd still be able to package Randle and DDV for KAT.

The only big acquisition we couldn't pull off would be Bridges. And we'd have regained rights over two of our firsts as the trade went down over two years ago.

Listen, you can prefer this current iteration of the Knicks, as I do, but there's no need to cap about the Mitchell trade. We're good now. No need to make chit up to feel better about our present.

I posted the deal directly from Woj. Not making things up.

3 Nyk 1sts, 2 swaps, 2 other picks, a bunch of 2nds, RJ, Fournier and IQ or Grimes.

If you think we could have gotten Mitchell for 3 picks, RJ and IQ that is straight up delusional when he was traded for 3 picks, 2 swaps, Lauri, Sexton, and Agbaji (lottery pick in the draft).

Just use common sense. To beat Cleveland's offer, it would have to be something similar to what I posted. What you posted doesn't come close to beating the actual deal.

Plus on one hand your saying RJ can be the center piece of a deal for Mitchell, on the other hand he didn't matter to Toronto

With IQ vs Grimes, the issue is Mitchell and Brunson would be playing most of the minutes. There wouldn't have been much minutes or opportunity for IQ thus why he was preferred to be in the deal.

So basically every asset we used to get OG, Mikal and Hart would have been gone. It's almost word for word.... Combine the Mikal, Hart, OG trades and that's what Ainge wanted... Maybe a tad less.

Would have been a totally different team so tough to say. Rose def would have made more moves and maybe we get 2 of those 4. We certainly wouldn't have everyone. Don't think you can simply swap Mikal for Mitchell because it doesn't even work cap wise.

In the end I do love this team and where we are at. Just posting facts about what the deal actual was and saying I prefer this team.

Not to mention the fact that Brunson doesn't really become Brunson unless the Knicks give him the opportunity. Brunson is now mostly acknowledged as a better player than Mitchell, but at that moment, he was not seen as close to Mitchell. Brunson would not have been given the ball, like he is now. We can't really take prime Brunson now and put him together with prime Mitchell because on this team, today, Brunson would still be the man, even if Mitchell joined today. Weirdly enough, the argument for Mitchell transformed over the years. It used to be that we wanted Brunson to be Mitchell's sidekick. One or two years ago, we started arguing about whether Mitchell could be Brunson's sidekick. Of course, the people supporting Mitchell still wanted Brunson to play off ball.

We also don't know the effect it would have had on Randle - Randle with less shots and less offensive opportunity is a really bad player. At that point, he really does nothing of value. Same with KAT.

Finally, we also know IQ became the centerpiece of the OG trade because he was also given opportunity, minutes, and shots. I doubt this happens with Mitchell and Brunson on the team, although having a team with Brunson and Mitchell almost necessitates having strong defenders up and down the roster. I don't think I'd make a move for KAT with those two guys.

[Chanel Bomber]

I posted the deal directly from Woj. Not making things up.

3 Nyk 1sts, 2 swaps, 2 other picks, a bunch of 2nds, RJ, Fournier and IQ or Grimes.

If you think we could have gotten Mitchell for 3 picks, RJ and IQ that is straight up delusional when he was traded for 3 picks, 2 swaps, Lauri, Sexton, and Agbaji (lottery pick in the draft).

Just use common sense. To beat Cleveland's offer, it would have to be something similar to what I posted. What you posted doesn't come close to beating the actual deal.

Plus on one hand your saying RJ can be the center piece of a deal for Mitchell, on the other hand he didn't matter to Toronto

With IQ vs Grimes, the issue is Mitchell and Brunson would be playing most of the minutes. There wouldn't have been much minutes or opportunity for IQ thus why he was preferred to be in the deal.

So basically every asset we used to get OG, Mikal and Hart would have been gone. It's almost word for word.... Combine the Mikal, Hart, OG trades and that's what Ainge wanted... Maybe a tad less.

Would have been a totally different team so tough to say. Rose def would have made more moves and maybe we get 2 of those 4. We certainly wouldn't have everyone. Don't think you can simply swap Mikal for Mitchell because it doesn't even work cap wise.

In the end I do love this team and where we are at. Just posting facts about what the deal actual was and saying I prefer this team.

Woj reported different returns as the negotiations went on.

But it was well reported that they were getting closer to an agreement around Grimes, RJ and 2 unprotected firsts, back when Grimes was our most valuable young player value wise. A protected first and pick swaps would have possibly been involved. That still leaves IQ, Cam, Obi, future unprotected firsts (not to mention the ones that renewed with years passing by), future protected firsts as tradeable assets, not to mention Randle down the line.

The 3 unprotected firsts were only requested when the Knicks tried to pivot from Grimes to Quickley.

The package with RJ, Grimes, 2 unprotected firsts, potential pick swaps, possibly 1-2 protected picks from other teams is the one the sides were closest on and it's the one I'm discussing. It would have been a positive trade for the Knicks.

Cleveland reportedly raised their offer to seal the deal after the Knicks shot themselves in the foot with the extension, which essentially took their out of sweepstakes.

But make no mistake, regardless of who's wrong or right about when the Cavs entered the fray, Cleveland are not regretting that trade, no matter how costly you paint the return out to be. Not even close. Mitchell is one of the best guards in the NBA and a hall-of-famer. The Cavs have the best record in the league.

And the Knicks would've still had the assets to trade for Hart, OG and KAT.

Again, you can prefer this iteration of the Knicks over the version with Mitchell. I think our team is more balanced in this way. But to regurgitate the party line and pretend that the Donovan Mitchell Knicks would have been depleted of assets and a failure is just not accurate, sorry. That's the kind of analysis I expect from the likes of Scott Perry.

Seeing how we traded RJ/IQ for OG I fail to see how we get OG. Then we have Mitchell getting a Max extension and what else changes?

We wouldn't have this team plus Mitchell in any fantasy. Mikal isn't a Knick either because we used the picks for Mitchell. We would have Brunson/Mitchell/Randle and maybe Hart. Mitch in a walking boot. Good times.

Utah wanted Grimes over IQ, which is why Utah asked for more pick compensation when the Knicks offered Quickley instead. The sides were reportedly close to an agreement around a deal that involved Grimes, RJ and picks. This package didn't include Quickley, who was the central piece of the OG deal.

I think it's fair to assume Toronto would've traded OG for IQ, an unprotected future first and salary filler.

The bigger point is that they would've had the assets and flexibility to make other moves, starting with Hart, and including at least one of OG or KAT.

Listen, I love our team, and I think we have a better balanced roster than the Cavs. So I don't begrudge the fact we didn't trade for Mitchell. But we would've been in a great position to succeed with him as well. I think both things can be true at once. Mitchell is a special player and the Cavs have the best record in the NBA as the result of - among other factors - the trade. It didn't cripple them and it wouldn't have crippled us.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Woj reported different returns as the negotiations went on.

But it was well reported that they were getting closer to an agreement around Grimes, RJ and 2 unprotected firsts, back when Grimes was our most valuable young player value wise. A protected first and pick swaps would have possibly been involved. That still leaves IQ, Cam, Obi, future unprotected firsts (not to mention the ones that renewed with years passing by), future protected firsts as tradeable assets, not to mention Randle down the line.

The 3 unprotected firsts were only requested when the Knicks tried to pivot from Grimes to Quickley.

The package with RJ, Grimes, 2 unprotected firsts, potential pick swaps, possibly 1-2 protected picks from other teams is the one the sides were closest on and it's the one I'm discussing. It would have been a positive trade for the Knicks.

Cleveland reportedly raised their offer to seal the deal after the Knicks shot themselves in the foot with the extension, which essentially took their out of sweepstakes.

But make no mistake, regardless of who's wrong or right about when the Cavs entered the fray, Cleveland are not regretting that trade, no matter how costly you paint the return out to be. Not even close. Mitchell is one of the best guards in the NBA and a hall-of-famer. The Cavs have the best record in the league.

And the Knicks would've still had the assets to trade for Hart, OG and KAT.

Again, you can prefer this iteration of the Knicks over the version with Mitchell. I think our team is more balanced in this way. But to regurgitate the party line and pretend that the Donovan Mitchell Knicks would have been depleted of assets and a failure is just not accurate, sorry. That's the kind of analysis I expect from the likes of Scott Perry.

Seeing how we traded RJ/IQ for OG I fail to see how we get OG. Then we have Mitchell getting a Max extension and what else changes?

We wouldn't have this team plus Mitchell in any fantasy. Mikal isn't a Knick either because we used the picks for Mitchell. We would have Brunson/Mitchell/Randle and maybe Hart. Mitch in a walking boot. Good times.

Utah wanted Grimes over IQ, which is why Utah asked for more pick compensation when the Knicks offered Quickley instead. The sides were reportedly close to an agreement around a deal that involved Grimes, RJ and picks. This package didn't include Quickley, who was the central piece of the OG deal.

I think it's fair to assume Toronto would've traded OG for IQ, an unprotected future first and salary filler.

The bigger point is that they would've had the assets and flexibility to make other moves, starting with Hart, and including at least one of OG or KAT.

Listen, I love our team, and I think we have a better balanced roster than the Cavs. So I don't begrudge the fact we didn't trade for Mitchell. But we would've been in a great position to succeed with him as well. I think both things can be true at once. Mitchell is a special player and the Cavs have the best record in the NBA as the result of - among other factors - the trade. It didn't cripple them and it wouldn't have crippled us.

No?

[Deeeez Knicks]

RJ and Grimes plus 3 firsts is the most high-end reporting of the return (perhaps a 1-2 additional pick swap). Inserting Grimes in the deal instead of IQ was always supposed to reduce the amount of outgoing draft picks, and he was the biggest sticking point.

Fournier's deal was mentioned as going to Utah and other places. There were different iterations. I don't know which report you're using - sources varied and talks kept evolving so the negotiations changed over time.

But we would still have had a protected pick plus Reddish for Hart. There was never any report by credible insiders about all our protected picks going in that trade.

We'd have kept IQ which means we'd still have the centerpiece of the OG trade.

If we still signed DDV in the subsequent summer, we'd still be able to package Randle and DDV for KAT.

The only big acquisition we couldn't pull off would be Bridges. And we'd have regained rights over two of our firsts as the trade went down over two years ago.

Listen, you can prefer this current iteration of the Knicks, as I do, but there's no need to cap about the Mitchell trade. We're good now. No need to make chit up to feel better about our present.

I posted the deal directly from Woj. Not making things up.

3 Nyk 1sts, 2 swaps, 2 other picks, a bunch of 2nds, RJ, Fournier and IQ or Grimes.

If you think we could have gotten Mitchell for 3 picks, RJ and IQ that is straight up delusional when he was traded for 3 picks, 2 swaps, Lauri, Sexton, and Agbaji (lottery pick in the draft).

Just use common sense. To beat Cleveland's offer, it would have to be something similar to what I posted. What you posted doesn't come close to beating the actual deal.

Plus on one hand your saying RJ can be the center piece of a deal for Mitchell, on the other hand he didn't matter to Toronto

With IQ vs Grimes, the issue is Mitchell and Brunson would be playing most of the minutes. There wouldn't have been much minutes or opportunity for IQ thus why he was preferred to be in the deal.

So basically every asset we used to get OG, Mikal and Hart would have been gone. It's almost word for word.... Combine the Mikal, Hart, OG trades and that's what Ainge wanted... Maybe a tad less.

Would have been a totally different team so tough to say. Rose def would have made more moves and maybe we get 2 of those 4. We certainly wouldn't have everyone. Don't think you can simply swap Mikal for Mitchell because it doesn't even work cap wise.

In the end I do love this team and where we are at. Just posting facts about what the deal actual was and saying I prefer this team.

Woj reported different returns as the negotiations went on.

But it was well reported that they were getting closer to an agreement around Grimes, RJ and 2 unprotected firsts, back when Grimes was our most valuable young player value wise. A protected first and pick swaps would have possibly been involved. That still leaves IQ, Cam, Obi, future unprotected firsts (not to mention the ones that renewed with years passing by), future protected firsts as tradeable assets, not to mention Randle down the line.

The 3 unprotected firsts were only requested when the Knicks tried to pivot from Grimes to Quickley.

The package with RJ, Grimes, 2 unprotected firsts, potential pick swaps, possibly 1-2 protected picks from other teams is the one the sides were closest on and it's the one I'm discussing. It would have been a positive trade for the Knicks.

Cleveland reportedly raised their offer to seal the deal after the Knicks shot themselves in the foot with the extension, which essentially took their out of sweepstakes.

But make no mistake, regardless of who's wrong or right about when the Cavs entered the fray, Cleveland are not regretting that trade, no matter how costly you paint the return out to be. Not even close. Mitchell is one of the best guards in the NBA and a hall-of-famer. The Cavs have the best record in the league.

And the Knicks would've still had the assets to trade for Hart, OG and KAT.

Again, you can prefer this iteration of the Knicks over the version with Mitchell. I think our team is more balanced in this way. But to regurgitate the party line and pretend that the Donovan Mitchell Knicks would have been depleted of assets and a failure is just not accurate, sorry. That's the kind of analysis I expect from the likes of Scott Perry.

There were a ton of rumors over the course of negotiations. Some true, some not but in the end we know the cost and we know what woj said:

Cost: 3 unprotected picks, 2 swaps, Lauri, Sexton, and Agbaji (lottery pick in the draft).

Knicks cost: 3 Nyk 1sts, 2 swaps, 2 other picks, a bunch of 2nds, RJ, Fournier and IQ or Grimes.
If Grimes, the last pick was protected. If IQ the last pick was unprotected. Knicks also needed that extra pick because nobody wanted Fournier and the extra pick was needed to move him to a different team. Woj broke it all down on his podcast after the trade.

You can choose to believe the facts or cherry pick the cheapest rumor from some random dude on twitter who said the Knicks could get Mitchell for RJ and 2 picks.

If we are legitimaly debating, probably the most realistic scenario would be whether the Knicks would be better with Mitchell or OG and Mikal. I would prefer OG and Mikal since we need the defense, depth and length and already have an elite offense and 2 elite scoring threats.

The thing is even you said you preferred this iteration of the Knicks so I don’t even know what your arguing about

Even the Knicks came out and said this trade would have crippled them from being able to add the nescessary pieces hence why they turned it down. A lot of people roasted them and said the Knicks needed to go all in. But turned out the Knicks were right and they built a really good team. A lot of credit to them.

[Deeeez Knicks]

RJ and Grimes plus 3 firsts is the most high-end reporting of the return (perhaps a 1-2 additional pick swap). Inserting Grimes in the deal instead of IQ was always supposed to reduce the amount of outgoing draft picks, and he was the biggest sticking point.

Fournier's deal was mentioned as going to Utah and other places. There were different iterations. I don't know which report you're using - sources varied and talks kept evolving so the negotiations changed over time.

But we would still have had a protected pick plus Reddish for Hart. There was never any report by credible insiders about all our protected picks going in that trade.

We'd have kept IQ which means we'd still have the centerpiece of the OG trade.

If we still signed DDV in the subsequent summer, we'd still be able to package Randle and DDV for KAT.

The only big acquisition we couldn't pull off would be Bridges. And we'd have regained rights over two of our firsts as the trade went down over two years ago.

Listen, you can prefer this current iteration of the Knicks, as I do, but there's no need to cap about the Mitchell trade. We're good now. No need to make chit up to feel better about our present.

I posted the deal directly from Woj. Not making things up.

3 Nyk 1sts, 2 swaps, 2 other picks, a bunch of 2nds, RJ, Fournier and IQ or Grimes.

If you think we could have gotten Mitchell for 3 picks, RJ and IQ that is straight up delusional when he was traded for 3 picks, 2 swaps, Lauri, Sexton, and Agbaji (lottery pick in the draft).

Just use common sense. To beat Cleveland's offer, it would have to be something similar to what I posted. What you posted doesn't come close to beating the actual deal.

Plus on one hand your saying RJ can be the center piece of a deal for Mitchell, on the other hand he didn't matter to Toronto

With IQ vs Grimes, the issue is Mitchell and Brunson would be playing most of the minutes. There wouldn't have been much minutes or opportunity for IQ thus why he was preferred to be in the deal.

So basically every asset we used to get OG, Mikal and Hart would have been gone. It's almost word for word.... Combine the Mikal, Hart, OG trades and that's what Ainge wanted... Maybe a tad less.

Would have been a totally different team so tough to say. Rose def would have made more moves and maybe we get 2 of those 4. We certainly wouldn't have everyone. Don't think you can simply swap Mikal for Mitchell because it doesn't even work cap wise.

In the end I do love this team and where we are at. Just posting facts about what the deal actual was and saying I prefer this team.

Not to mention the fact that Brunson doesn't really become Brunson unless the Knicks give him the opportunity. Brunson is now mostly acknowledged as a better player than Mitchell, but at that moment, he was not seen as close to Mitchell. Brunson would not have been given the ball, like he is now. We can't really take prime Brunson now and put him together with prime Mitchell because on this team, today, Brunson would still be the man, even if Mitchell joined today. Weirdly enough, the argument for Mitchell transformed over the years. It used to be that we wanted Brunson to be Mitchell's sidekick. One or two years ago, we started arguing about whether Mitchell could be Brunson's sidekick. Of course, the people supporting Mitchell still wanted Brunson to play off ball.

We also don't know the effect it would have had on Randle - Randle with less shots and less offensive opportunity is a really bad player. At that point, he really does nothing of value. Same with KAT.

Finally, we also know IQ became the centerpiece of the OG trade because he was also given opportunity, minutes, and shots. I doubt this happens with Mitchell and Brunson on the team, although having a team with Brunson and Mitchell almost necessitates having strong defenders up and down the roster. I don't think I'd make a move for KAT with those two guys.

Yea, so many variables would be different. For me, the pieces around Mitchell just didn’t fit and we wouldn’t have had much left over. I much prefer where we are at now. Think the pieces all fit much better and we still have a ton of talent. That all matters.

Brunson/Mitchell/Randle….that never would have worked well. And there wouldn’t have been many touches leftover for others.

[robillionaire]

I posted the deal directly from Woj. Not making things up.

3 Nyk 1sts, 2 swaps, 2 other picks, a bunch of 2nds, RJ, Fournier and IQ or Grimes.

If you think we could have gotten Mitchell for 3 picks, RJ and IQ that is straight up delusional when he was traded for 3 picks, 2 swaps, Lauri, Sexton, and Agbaji (lottery pick in the draft).

Just use common sense. To beat Cleveland's offer, it would have to be something similar to what I posted. What you posted doesn't come close to beating the actual deal.

Plus on one hand your saying RJ can be the center piece of a deal for Mitchell, on the other hand he didn't matter to Toronto

With IQ vs Grimes, the issue is Mitchell and Brunson would be playing most of the minutes. There wouldn't have been much minutes or opportunity for IQ thus why he was preferred to be in the deal.

So basically every asset we used to get OG, Mikal and Hart would have been gone. It's almost word for word.... Combine the Mikal, Hart, OG trades and that's what Ainge wanted... Maybe a tad less.

Would have been a totally different team so tough to say. Rose def would have made more moves and maybe we get 2 of those 4. We certainly wouldn't have everyone. Don't think you can simply swap Mikal for Mitchell because it doesn't even work cap wise.

In the end I do love this team and where we are at. Just posting facts about what the deal actual was and saying I prefer this team.

Not to mention the fact that Brunson doesn't really become Brunson unless the Knicks give him the opportunity. Brunson is now mostly acknowledged as a better player than Mitchell, but at that moment, he was not seen as close to Mitchell. Brunson would not have been given the ball, like he is now. We can't really take prime Brunson now and put him together with prime Mitchell because on this team, today, Brunson would still be the man, even if Mitchell joined today. Weirdly enough, the argument for Mitchell transformed over the years. It used to be that we wanted Brunson to be Mitchell's sidekick. One or two years ago, we started arguing about whether Mitchell could be Brunson's sidekick. Of course, the people supporting Mitchell still wanted Brunson to play off ball.

We also don't know the effect it would have had on Randle - Randle with less shots and less offensive opportunity is a really bad player. At that point, he really does nothing of value. Same with KAT.

Finally, we also know IQ became the centerpiece of the OG trade because he was also given opportunity, minutes, and shots. I doubt this happens with Mitchell and Brunson on the team, although having a team with Brunson and Mitchell almost necessitates having strong defenders up and down the roster. I don't think I'd make a move for KAT with those two guys.

Yea, so many variables would be different. For me, the pieces around Mitchell just didn’t fit and we wouldn’t have had much left over. I much prefer where we are at now. Think the pieces all fit much better and we still have a ton of talent. That all matters.

Brunson/Mitchell/Randle….that never would have worked well. And there wouldn’t have been many touches leftover for others.

We still could have traded Randle for towns. But OG is really the guy for us that brings everything together so without him idk about our chances especially on defense. Chanel says maybe they still take IQ and a pick for him. In theory maybe but who knows maybe they really valued the RJ in Canada reunion. And we definitely can’t get Mikal

Ultimately I’ll take the known over the unknown and stick with the great team we have, don’t think I’d risk it and change anything, but I think the other route could also have been pretty fun. Also maybe we would have won the championship 2 years ago

[KnicksGadfly]

I posted the deal directly from Woj. Not making things up.

3 Nyk 1sts, 2 swaps, 2 other picks, a bunch of 2nds, RJ, Fournier and IQ or Grimes.

If you think we could have gotten Mitchell for 3 picks, RJ and IQ that is straight up delusional when he was traded for 3 picks, 2 swaps, Lauri, Sexton, and Agbaji (lottery pick in the draft).

Just use common sense. To beat Cleveland's offer, it would have to be something similar to what I posted. What you posted doesn't come close to beating the actual deal.

Plus on one hand your saying RJ can be the center piece of a deal for Mitchell, on the other hand he didn't matter to Toronto

With IQ vs Grimes, the issue is Mitchell and Brunson would be playing most of the minutes. There wouldn't have been much minutes or opportunity for IQ thus why he was preferred to be in the deal.

So basically every asset we used to get OG, Mikal and Hart would have been gone. It's almost word for word.... Combine the Mikal, Hart, OG trades and that's what Ainge wanted... Maybe a tad less.

Would have been a totally different team so tough to say. Rose def would have made more moves and maybe we get 2 of those 4. We certainly wouldn't have everyone. Don't think you can simply swap Mikal for Mitchell because it doesn't even work cap wise.

In the end I do love this team and where we are at. Just posting facts about what the deal actual was and saying I prefer this team.

Not to mention the fact that Brunson doesn't really become Brunson unless the Knicks give him the opportunity. Brunson is now mostly acknowledged as a better player than Mitchell, but at that moment, he was not seen as close to Mitchell. Brunson would not have been given the ball, like he is now. We can't really take prime Brunson now and put him together with prime Mitchell because on this team, today, Brunson would still be the man, even if Mitchell joined today. Weirdly enough, the argument for Mitchell transformed over the years. It used to be that we wanted Brunson to be Mitchell's sidekick. One or two years ago, we started arguing about whether Mitchell could be Brunson's sidekick. Of course, the people supporting Mitchell still wanted Brunson to play off ball.

We also don't know the effect it would have had on Randle - Randle with less shots and less offensive opportunity is a really bad player. At that point, he really does nothing of value. Same with KAT.

Finally, we also know IQ became the centerpiece of the OG trade because he was also given opportunity, minutes, and shots. I doubt this happens with Mitchell and Brunson on the team, although having a team with Brunson and Mitchell almost necessitates having strong defenders up and down the roster. I don't think I'd make a move for KAT with those two guys.

Yea, so many variables would be different. For me, the pieces around Mitchell just didn’t fit and we wouldn’t have had much left over. I much prefer where we are at now. Think the pieces all fit much better and we still have a ton of talent. That all matters.

Brunson/Mitchell/Randle….that never would have worked well. And there wouldn’t have been many touches leftover for others.

Yep...the Cavs were in the right position to overpay. They gave up a substantial package for Mitchell, kept most of their core pieces, and not only that, but they've given this core several seasons to gel together and build chemistry. I think it took them a while to also unlock Evan Mobley, but they've always had him as an upside piece and a ceiling raiser, in addition to guys like Garland and Allen. Okoro was also another young pick for them.

[Clyde_Style]

We got that Calinks guy too. And MrDollarBills. **** is like that story a few years back about the black guy that was befriending KKK guys, showing them the error of their ways, and collecting their robes.

Keep Donte (or send him back to us) and dump Randle

I don't think there's a way. In any event, it would involve Mitch and I don't see a scenario where they need him.

Wishful thinking only, but would love seeing Nova Mob at full force

[Deeeez Knicks]

Not to mention the fact that Brunson doesn't really become Brunson unless the Knicks give him the opportunity. Brunson is now mostly acknowledged as a better player than Mitchell, but at that moment, he was not seen as close to Mitchell. Brunson would not have been given the ball, like he is now. We can't really take prime Brunson now and put him together with prime Mitchell because on this team, today, Brunson would still be the man, even if Mitchell joined today. Weirdly enough, the argument for Mitchell transformed over the years. It used to be that we wanted Brunson to be Mitchell's sidekick. One or two years ago, we started arguing about whether Mitchell could be Brunson's sidekick. Of course, the people supporting Mitchell still wanted Brunson to play off ball.

We also don't know the effect it would have had on Randle - Randle with less shots and less offensive opportunity is a really bad player. At that point, he really does nothing of value. Same with KAT.

Finally, we also know IQ became the centerpiece of the OG trade because he was also given opportunity, minutes, and shots. I doubt this happens with Mitchell and Brunson on the team, although having a team with Brunson and Mitchell almost necessitates having strong defenders up and down the roster. I don't think I'd make a move for KAT with those two guys.

Yea, so many variables would be different. For me, the pieces around Mitchell just didn’t fit and we wouldn’t have had much left over. I much prefer where we are at now. Think the pieces all fit much better and we still have a ton of talent. That all matters.

Brunson/Mitchell/Randle….that never would have worked well. And there wouldn’t have been many touches leftover for others.

We still could have traded Randle for towns. But OG is really the guy for us that brings everything together so without him idk about our chances especially on defense. Chanel says maybe they still take IQ and a pick for him. In theory maybe but who knows maybe they really valued the RJ in Canada reunion. And we definitely can’t get Mikal

Ultimately I’ll take the known over the unknown and stick with the great team we have, don’t think I’d risk it and change anything, but I think the other route could also have been pretty fun. Also maybe we would have won the championship 2 years ago

we wouldnt have any picks left though for OG. I think that’s exactly why the Knicks passed. They were eyeing up OG for awhile and tried to make sure they had enough leftover.

[KnicksGadfly]

Aight...just wanna say thank God we didn't bring in Dejounte or DeFrozen.

[Guano]

only thing that explains this is chanel saw that thibs is now #1 on the terrorist list and can't have anyone stealing his shine.

revisting the donovan trade - ffs - i'd rather dust off my old inorganic chemistry textbook than read about that.

[Capn'O]

I apologize guys!!!

KAT is HIM and we won the trade!

The next day:

The audacity of you when you wrote a thesis on Cam Reddish being as talented as rookie Kobe

by GettinitDone » Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:28 am
Offensively, he can shoot: catch and shoot, shoot off dribble (step back or step side), shoot turnaround fadeaways off the post. He's pretty much ambidextrous can go left as well as he can go right, can finish with either hand in the paint. He has nasty hesi and head fake and euro step moves. He knocks down free throws. He can pass at a high level, to backdoor cutters or kick out off penetration or alley oops off dribble. Since becoming an NBA fan in 1996, I can say Cam has one of the most diverse arrays of offensive moves I've seen from a player. Mark Jackson once commentated on a game saying Cam can do what others in blue and orange can't, or Mark Jones saying hes "so effortless".

Defensively, he's far and away the best on ball defender in the entire NBA. Watching Wiggins in Finals, I thought Cam can easily be even a better lockdown defensive specialist than Wiggins.
t's clear all you critical of Cam evaluate players based on what they've already accomplished. Well if this was 1997, you'd have a hard time choosing a teenage Kobe (averaged only 15mpg, 7.6ppg, shot 4 airballs in a playoffs elimination game) over a then more accomplished Eddie Jones (established starter, on verge of becoming All Star). But the real astute talent evaluator Jerry West chose Kobe over Eddie, traded EJ to clear up playing time and starting spot for Kobe). I started collecting Kobe cards as he was getting DNP-CDs or 3-5 mins garbage time while my friends were collecting their MJs, Hills, Pippens, Shaqs... and they would never understand why I'd collect a trash player whose only forte seemed to be a dunking showboat.

Btw, I hadn't collected any dang NBA card since Kobe RCs in 1997 and I started doing again for Cam RCs (getting them while cheap becoz he's still "trash"... easiest investment choice ever)

Can you evaluate talent not based on their accomplishments but based on what they've shown in the garbage minutes they're receiving?? That's hard.

I'll just let Cam's play in the season do the talking from here on out

Great point Melo but wrong thread!

[Clyde_Style]

Hey guys, what do you think about trading for Donovan Mitchell?

Spoiler:

[Chanel Bomber]

I posted the deal directly from Woj. Not making things up.

3 Nyk 1sts, 2 swaps, 2 other picks, a bunch of 2nds, RJ, Fournier and IQ or Grimes.

If you think we could have gotten Mitchell for 3 picks, RJ and IQ that is straight up delusional when he was traded for 3 picks, 2 swaps, Lauri, Sexton, and Agbaji (lottery pick in the draft).

Just use common sense. To beat Cleveland's offer, it would have to be something similar to what I posted. What you posted doesn't come close to beating the actual deal.

Plus on one hand your saying RJ can be the center piece of a deal for Mitchell, on the other hand he didn't matter to Toronto

With IQ vs Grimes, the issue is Mitchell and Brunson would be playing most of the minutes. There wouldn't have been much minutes or opportunity for IQ thus why he was preferred to be in the deal.

So basically every asset we used to get OG, Mikal and Hart would have been gone. It's almost word for word.... Combine the Mikal, Hart, OG trades and that's what Ainge wanted... Maybe a tad less.

Would have been a totally different team so tough to say. Rose def would have made more moves and maybe we get 2 of those 4. We certainly wouldn't have everyone. Don't think you can simply swap Mikal for Mitchell because it doesn't even work cap wise.

In the end I do love this team and where we are at. Just posting facts about what the deal actual was and saying I prefer this team.

Woj reported different returns as the negotiations went on.

But it was well reported that they were getting closer to an agreement around Grimes, RJ and 2 unprotected firsts, back when Grimes was our most valuable young player value wise. A protected first and pick swaps would have possibly been involved. That still leaves IQ, Cam, Obi, future unprotected firsts (not to mention the ones that renewed with years passing by), future protected firsts as tradeable assets, not to mention Randle down the line.

The 3 unprotected firsts were only requested when the Knicks tried to pivot from Grimes to Quickley.

The package with RJ, Grimes, 2 unprotected firsts, potential pick swaps, possibly 1-2 protected picks from other teams is the one the sides were closest on and it's the one I'm discussing. It would have been a positive trade for the Knicks.

Cleveland reportedly raised their offer to seal the deal after the Knicks shot themselves in the foot with the extension, which essentially took their out of sweepstakes.

But make no mistake, regardless of who's wrong or right about when the Cavs entered the fray, Cleveland are not regretting that trade, no matter how costly you paint the return out to be. Not even close. Mitchell is one of the best guards in the NBA and a hall-of-famer. The Cavs have the best record in the league.

And the Knicks would've still had the assets to trade for Hart, OG and KAT.

Again, you can prefer this iteration of the Knicks over the version with Mitchell. I think our team is more balanced in this way. But to regurgitate the party line and pretend that the Donovan Mitchell Knicks would have been depleted of assets and a failure is just not accurate, sorry. That's the kind of analysis I expect from the likes of Scott Perry.

There were a ton of rumors over the course of negotiations. Some true, some not but in the end we know the cost and we know what woj said:

Cost: 3 unprotected picks, 2 swaps, Lauri, Sexton, and Agbaji (lottery pick in the draft).

Knicks cost: 3 Nyk 1sts, 2 swaps, 2 other picks, a bunch of 2nds, RJ, Fournier and IQ or Grimes.
If Grimes, the last pick was protected. If IQ the last pick was unprotected. Knicks also needed that extra pick because nobody wanted Fournier and the extra pick was needed to move him to a different team. Woj broke it all down on his podcast after the trade.

You can choose to believe the facts or cherry pick the cheapest rumor from some random dude on twitter who said the Knicks could get Mitchell for RJ and 2 picks.

If we are legitimaly debating, probably the most realistic scenario would be whether the Knicks would be better with Mitchell or OG and Mikal. I would prefer OG and Mikal since we need the defense, depth and length and already have an elite offense and 2 elite scoring threats.

The thing is even you said you preferred this iteration of the Knicks so I don’t even know what your arguing about

Even the Knicks came out and said this trade would have crippled them from being able to add the nescessary pieces hence why they turned it down. A lot of people roasted them and said the Knicks needed to go all in. But turned out the Knicks were right and they built a really good team. A lot of credit to them.

I never said we could get Mitchell for RJ and two picks. Woj reported the sides were close to reaching an agreement over RJ, Grimes (the apple of Leon's eye at the time), 2 unprotected firsts, and an additional protected first. Ultimately, the Knicks backed out and proposed Quickley instead of Grimes, as they completely overvalued Grimes. But that iteration of the trade would have likely turned out to be a positive transaction for us.

You're the one who seems to be inflating the return, for instance by suggesting Grimes and IQ were interchangeable and had equal value at the time when they didn't, or by suggesting that we'd have lost all our protected picks from other teams (only one of which we used to get Hart) as part of that package, which was never reported.

I prefer the current version of the Knicks, yes. But that doesn't mean we should still make chit up about that trade and paint it as a doomsday scenario. I don't find that fair, accurate, or necessary.

And OF COURSE the Knicks defended their decision publicly. That's called corporate propaganda. You fall for it if you want to.

As for Scott Perry (if you were alluding to his interviews), he was let go by the Knicks after a calamitous tenure here, the last act of a career defined by incompetence. He attempted to save his reputation in interviews by resorting to distortion and exaggeration over events that happened during his tenure to make himself look better (including that trade), but clearly nobody in the NBA's buying it and you shouldn't either. He was always a politician, never a basketball mind, and that's how he built himself a career in the NBA.

[Fury]

So now that melo hates Randle, does this mean this thread is over