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Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo

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What Should We Do?

Draft Barrett
126
73%
Draft Someone Else
16
9%
Trade the Pick
30
17%
 
Total votes: 172

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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#781 » by Deeeez Knicks » Fri May 31, 2019 2:10 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:I would not trade back from #3 to #8 and #10 in this draft.


i hear that. but a question i have to ask myself.

is RJ > cam + bol?

what if garland is on the board at 8?

what if you really like sekou doumbouya?


I would take RJ over Cam + Bol.

If someone like Garland falls, then we may have to consider. I dont see him falling past #7 though (probably goes #6).

Overall there will probably be 2 players after #8 that are better then RJ, i just think it will be very difficult to find them and we are playing against the odds. All the years we wished we had picked a little bit sooner, and this could be our last chance in awhile for a top 3 pick (or maybe not). I see enough potential in RJ that I dont think I would pass unless we are going all in for a title with AD/KD/Kemba or something.
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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#782 » by moocow007 » Fri May 31, 2019 2:14 pm

Fury wrote:
Milk wrote:Does anyone have ESPN+? If possible could you paste what they wrote about RJ here :)

Read on Twitter


Interesting.
“The Knicks are exploring the possibility of trading back in the draft to acquire pieces that better complement potential high volume All-Star free agents, per @DraftExpress.”

Read on Twitter


I was gonna PM you but you don't have PM

I don't think I can post the article here
The problems with this notion (using draft picks to find complimentary role players for Durant):

1. There is still the chance Durant doesn't come...which means no one else will follow. For a team that has very little talent and, without Durant, be looking at 14% chance at the 1st overall pick in the 2020 draft the notion of adding more supporting characters is a bit on the assinine side.

2. If Durant does come and brings his friends with him, I'd assume that, given Durant is 30 years old, the expectation is to win immediately. I'd also assume that veteran coat riders and band wagoners will also follow hoping to win a title. I don't recall teams looking to seriously win immediately basing their plan on filling the roster with unproven less talented rookies.

3. If the goal is for Durant and Co so you can win right now, and you want to add some complimentary pieces to you studs, it would logically make more sense to trade a much higher level prospect to another team to get a proven complimentary piece for your imported stars. A no.3 overall prospect has more value to a team looking to trade proven vets than the no.8 and 10. Just think about that one a bit. Don't have to go any further than Anthony Davis (as the ultimate "complimentary" player) to see this. Teams looking to trade quality vets are likely rebuilding. Rebuilding teams would be looking for possible cornerstone youngsters not depth.

So if this is true...doubt it...then it puts into question what the Knicks FO thought pattern is. I personally think this is just more not completely thought out click bait as it doesn't make sense.

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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#783 » by j4remi » Fri May 31, 2019 2:15 pm

From that article, here are a few bits that got my attention.

Memphis wants to workout Barrett
Givony: There are few sure things in any draft. After I reported a couple of weeks ago from the combine that the Memphis Grizzlies informed interested parties that they intend to select Murray State's Ja Morant at No. 2, Memphis has been sending out some mixed messages. The Grizzlies' ownership group is still telling people around the league the team is locked in on Morant, but the front office has requested to have Barrett in for a private workout -- something he has declined but might revisit over the next three weeks, sources told ESPN.


The relevant bit about trading down and due diligence
And in recent weeks, the Knicks have been considering a number of alternative scenarios with the No. 3 pick that don't involve Barrett, according to multiple sources.
Editor's Picks

New York has explored the possibility of trading back in the lottery, sources told ESPN, perhaps to acquire pieces that better complement potential high-volume All-Star free agents (such as Kevin Durant or Kyrie Irving). Trading the No. 3 pick for the Atlanta Hawks' two first-rounders (Nos. 8 and 10) is under consideration by the Knicks, one source said. This is a similar package to the one Dallas used to move up in last year's draft -- trading the No. 5 pick and a top-five protected pick (which ended up being No. 10) to select Luka Doncic at No. 3. A move like this likely wouldn't happen until the draft was actually underway, as both teams would want to know which players are actually available with the No. 8 pick before consummating a trade.

In addition, the Knicks are looking closely at other draft prospects who might be in play at No. 3 but could also very well fall later in the top 10, including Cam Reddish, Jarrett Culver, Coby White and Nassir Little.


Some countering the Dunc'd On Podcast narrative here, these guys are much more bullish on Barrett overall

Barrett is ideally suited for that big wing role with his ability to bust out in transition and make reads out of pick-and-rolls, as he's a much better athlete than he gets credit for. According to P3 sports science data from last year, Barrett tested very well relative to NBA athletes in acceleration and posted elite deceleration metrics, on par with James Harden.

He's a freight train once he gets downhill. He brings elite body control, and he's as aggressive as they come seeking out contact in the paint. He's going to continue to improve his pull-up jumper as his career moves along due to his outstanding work ethic, as he has already made huge strides in that area over the past few years. Combine that with his court vision, scoring instincts, competitiveness and the fact that he still hasn't turned 19 years old, and you have everything you look for in a modern NBA prospect.


But they still like Morant more, although honestly I feel like they're gassing him here.

Although slight and wiry, Morant is a more functional athlete, better decision-maker, superior facilitator, stronger ball handler, more capable shooter and more explosive finisher. He's easier to build around and loaded with more upside. While clearly better on the ball, let's not forget the fact that Morant actually shared the backcourt with OVC player of the year Jonathan Stark as a freshman and still put together an efficient season while helping the Racers to the NCAA tournament. The fact that Morant is likely a (poor) one-position defender at this stage and ball-dominant offensively sways in Barrett's favor in terms of modern fit, but I'd bet on a De'Aaron Fox/Trae Young hybrid guard with star potential as opposed to the versatility that comes along with a player like Barrett.


There's a LOT in there so I just grabbed a few parts to capture the general tone of things. This is one of those back and forth convo articles, but these dudes are mostly just co-signing each other anyway.
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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#784 » by robillionaire » Fri May 31, 2019 2:18 pm

highest knicks pick since 1985, let's trade down to 8th, we always find good value there
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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#785 » by Jeff Van Gully » Fri May 31, 2019 2:21 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:I would not trade back from #3 to #8 and #10 in this draft.


i hear that. but a question i have to ask myself.

is RJ > cam + bol?

what if garland is on the board at 8?

what if you really like sekou doumbouya?


I would take RJ over Cam + Bol.

If someone like Garland falls, then we may have to consider. I dont see him falling past #7 though (probably goes #6).

Overall there will probably be 2 players after #8 that are better then RJ, i just think it will be very difficult to find them and we are playing against the odds. All the years we wished we had picked a little bit sooner, and this could be our last chance in awhile for a top 3 pick (or maybe not). I see enough potential in RJ that I dont think I would pass unless we are going all in for a title with AD/KD/Kemba or something.


agreed on all counts. i just understand why a FO would consider it if they think the value of the 2 will exceed that of the 1. i was just using examples in my mind of who would make that a good discussion. i don't think garland gets past 6. i believe he has a draft promise from the suns. but that could bump cam down to 8 which would make me think... especially if there are at least 2 targets still on the board who i am very high on.

but generally speaking, if we believe RJ can be a transcendent talent, he would be more valuable than 2 "good" prospects. if you see the players at 8 and 10 as close to that 3 player... i totally get the flip.
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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#786 » by Jeff Van Gully » Fri May 31, 2019 2:24 pm

j4remi wrote:From that article, here are a few bits that got my attention.

Memphis wants to workout Barrett
Givony: There are few sure things in any draft. After I reported a couple of weeks ago from the combine that the Memphis Grizzlies informed interested parties that they intend to select Murray State's Ja Morant at No. 2, Memphis has been sending out some mixed messages. The Grizzlies' ownership group is still telling people around the league the team is locked in on Morant, but the front office has requested to have Barrett in for a private workout -- something he has declined but might revisit over the next three weeks, sources told ESPN.


The relevant bit about trading down and due diligence
And in recent weeks, the Knicks have been considering a number of alternative scenarios with the No. 3 pick that don't involve Barrett, according to multiple sources.
Editor's Picks

New York has explored the possibility of trading back in the lottery, sources told ESPN, perhaps to acquire pieces that better complement potential high-volume All-Star free agents (such as Kevin Durant or Kyrie Irving). Trading the No. 3 pick for the Atlanta Hawks' two first-rounders (Nos. 8 and 10) is under consideration by the Knicks, one source said. This is a similar package to the one Dallas used to move up in last year's draft -- trading the No. 5 pick and a top-five protected pick (which ended up being No. 10) to select Luka Doncic at No. 3. A move like this likely wouldn't happen until the draft was actually underway, as both teams would want to know which players are actually available with the No. 8 pick before consummating a trade.

In addition, the Knicks are looking closely at other draft prospects who might be in play at No. 3 but could also very well fall later in the top 10, including Cam Reddish, Jarrett Culver, Coby White and Nassir Little.


Some countering the Dunc'd On Podcast narrative here, these guys are much more bullish on Barrett overall

Barrett is ideally suited for that big wing role with his ability to bust out in transition and make reads out of pick-and-rolls, as he's a much better athlete than he gets credit for. According to P3 sports science data from last year, Barrett tested very well relative to NBA athletes in acceleration and posted elite deceleration metrics, on par with James Harden.

He's a freight train once he gets downhill. He brings elite body control, and he's as aggressive as they come seeking out contact in the paint. He's going to continue to improve his pull-up jumper as his career moves along due to his outstanding work ethic, as he has already made huge strides in that area over the past few years. Combine that with his court vision, scoring instincts, competitiveness and the fact that he still hasn't turned 19 years old, and you have everything you look for in a modern NBA prospect.


But they still like Morant more, although honestly I feel like they're gassing him here.

Although slight and wiry, Morant is a more functional athlete, better decision-maker, superior facilitator, stronger ball handler, more capable shooter and more explosive finisher. He's easier to build around and loaded with more upside. While clearly better on the ball, let's not forget the fact that Morant actually shared the backcourt with OVC player of the year Jonathan Stark as a freshman and still put together an efficient season while helping the Racers to the NCAA tournament. The fact that Morant is likely a (poor) one-position defender at this stage and ball-dominant offensively sways in Barrett's favor in terms of modern fit, but I'd bet on a De'Aaron Fox/Trae Young hybrid guard with star potential as opposed to the versatility that comes along with a player like Barrett.


There's a LOT in there so I just grabbed a few parts to capture the general tone of things. This is one of those back and forth convo articles, but these dudes are mostly just co-signing each other anyway.


i actually am most fascinated by RJ rejecting to work out for the grizzlies. wow. he's trying to get to NY. it's a great fit, but i thought you didn't care who drafted you. :lol:
RIP magnumt

thanks for everything, thibs.

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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#787 » by dakomish23 » Fri May 31, 2019 2:25 pm

Fury wrote:
ZeroStatic2 wrote:So if the knicks obtain 3 superstars this summer and win the championship, it would be the first time a team would win a championship without any home grown stars on it.


Pistons, and don't give me Tayshaun, he wasn't an all-star


Raptors this year if they win it
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#788 » by dakomish23 » Fri May 31, 2019 2:27 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:I would not trade back from #3 to #8 and #10 in this draft.


i hear that. but a question i have to ask myself.

is RJ > cam + bol?

what if garland is on the board at 8?

what if you really like sekou doumbouya?


Hunter & Clarke for me if we trade back.

:clap:

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52% FG 44% 3PT 78% FT 58% EFG 62% TS

Clarke
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69% FG 69% FT 69% EFG 70% TS

Two very good role players to flank the stars (assuming they come & assuming we do this b/c we’re not trading for AD).
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#789 » by TheGreenArrow » Fri May 31, 2019 2:35 pm

Read on Twitter


Perry isn't stupid folks. Rj will be a knick.
NewYorkOrNoWhere!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#790 » by moocow007 » Fri May 31, 2019 2:43 pm

Yeah I would go with Barrett or Morant (whichever is at 3) then try to trade Frank for another late 1st pick. Knicks seem to do real well finding diamonds among the late draft rough.

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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#791 » by Jeff Van Gully » Fri May 31, 2019 2:45 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Fury wrote:
ZeroStatic2 wrote:So if the knicks obtain 3 superstars this summer and win the championship, it would be the first time a team would win a championship without any home grown stars on it.


Pistons, and don't give me Tayshaun, he wasn't an all-star


Raptors this year if they win it


how do you view pascal siakam?
RIP magnumt

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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#792 » by Jeff Van Gully » Fri May 31, 2019 2:46 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:I would not trade back from #3 to #8 and #10 in this draft.


i hear that. but a question i have to ask myself.

is RJ > cam + bol?

what if garland is on the board at 8?

what if you really like sekou doumbouya?


Hunter & Clarke for me if we trade back.

:clap:

Hunter
15.2 PPG 5.1 RPG 2.0 APG 0.6 SPG 0.6 BPG
52% FG 44% 3PT 78% FT 58% EFG 62% TS

Clarke
16.9 PPG 8.6 RPG 1.9 APG 1.2 SPG 3.2 BPG
69% FG 69% FT 69% EFG 70% TS

Two very good role players to flank the stars (assuming they come & assuming we do this b/c we’re not trading for AD).


i like them too.
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thanks for everything, thibs.

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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#793 » by Milk » Fri May 31, 2019 2:46 pm

:nod:

Any potential trade between the Knicks and the Hawks involving their first-round picks is not currently under "serious consideration" by either side, a league source told SNY.


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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#794 » by Deeeez Knicks » Fri May 31, 2019 2:46 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:I would not trade back from #3 to #8 and #10 in this draft.


i hear that. but a question i have to ask myself.

is RJ > cam + bol?

what if garland is on the board at 8?

what if you really like sekou doumbouya?


Hunter & Clarke for me if we trade back.

:clap:

Hunter
15.2 PPG 5.1 RPG 2.0 APG 0.6 SPG 0.6 BPG
52% FG 44% 3PT 78% FT 58% EFG 62% TS

Clarke
16.9 PPG 8.6 RPG 1.9 APG 1.2 SPG 3.2 BPG
69% FG 69% FT 69% EFG 70% TS

Two very good role players to flank the stars (assuming they come & assuming we do this b/c we’re not trading for AD).


I do like Nickeil Alexander-Walker. I would snatch him up with one of the picks if we did end up trading back (although wouldnt want to do that)
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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#795 » by dakomish23 » Fri May 31, 2019 2:46 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Fury wrote:
Pistons, and don't give me Tayshaun, he wasn't an all-star


Raptors this year if they win it


how do you view pascal siakam?


I thought the statement was related to all stars. :dontknow:

I do like Paskal and love FVV
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#796 » by j4remi » Fri May 31, 2019 2:47 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:i actually am most fascinated by RJ rejecting to work out for the grizzlies. wow. he's trying to get to NY. it's a great fit, but i thought you didn't care who drafted you. :lol:


That caught my eye too fam! This dude wants NYC for real. I like that trait of course :nod: . For me, I'm not as bullish on RJ as most and also higher on Culver/Garland/Hunter (my next tier) than others. So I've been pretty big on the "if we can trade down and get more bang for our buck, I'm in" tip. But I'd be plenty content taking our shot at Barrett being a killer in better spacing. If we could get two of Culver/Hunter/Garland/Clarke/Reddish though...I'd probably prefer the trade. Maybe Doumbouya too, he's got a lot of my favorite traits but I don't trust this fan base to have the patience for his development tbh.
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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#797 » by Richard4444 » Fri May 31, 2019 2:49 pm

1) The trade down option is interesting. It depends on who will fall to the 8th spot. If Culver, Cam or maybe Hunter falls to the 8th pick, a deal can be exciting.

2) With the 10pick, the better options would be Sekou and Clarke. They look like solid defenders to a win now scenario. I dont think we need another rookie center, but Goga would be favorite ahead of Bol Bol because his frame. Maybe with 2 Centers we could make sure to give only one of them in a trade to NO.

3) Atlanta has 3 Second round picks. Maybe a pick or a swap with 55pick could sweet the deal.

4) Who can assure Pelicans wants RJ Barret? Jrue Holiday, Zion, RJ, Dennis, Frank and Mitch are poor 3pt shooters.

5) 8 pick + 10 pick would cost us around 9M (agains 7,8M for the 3pick). It will harder to keep Trier and Dotson without aditional trades.
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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#798 » by moocow007 » Fri May 31, 2019 2:50 pm

Colby White looks too much like Moochie Norris for comfort.

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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#799 » by spree8 » Fri May 31, 2019 2:51 pm

Only way we should be trading down is if we get one of Hunter/Cam with one of Garland/Coby, and that’s not happening...
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Re: Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo 

Post#800 » by BowlRips » Fri May 31, 2019 2:52 pm

Richard4444 wrote:1) The trade down option is interesting. It dependes of who will fall to the 8th spot. If Culver, Cam or maybe Hunter falls to the 8th pick, a deal can be exciting.

2) With the 10pick, the better options would be Sekou and Clarke. They look like solid defenders to a win now scenario. I dont think we need another rookie center, but Goga would be favorite ahead of Bol Bol because his frame. Maybe with 2 Centers we could make sure to give only one of them in a trade to NO.

3) Atlanta has 3 Second round picks. Maybe a pick or a swap with 55pick could sweet the deal.

4) Who can assure Pelicans wants RJ Barret? Jrue Holiday, Zion, RJ, Dennis, Frank and Mitch are poor 3pt shooters.

5) 8 pick + 10 pick would cost us around 9M (agains 7,8M for the 3pick). It will harder to keep Trier and Dotson without aditional trades.


Agree with this. Maybe also a Prince/Frank swap?
But I wouldnt get into the calculating our available salaries.
The roster is fluid. Knicks can offer 2 maxes if they want to.
If they have Kyrie/Kemba in tow, maybe they trade DSJ for a future pick or a player at another position with lower salary?
So much up in the air.
I wouldn't get granular over a few hundred thousand here or there at this point.
At execution time then yes

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