PG: Out of our Misery

[MrDollarBills]

The Knicks are going to be more than fine. Making a deep ECF run for the first time in 25 years is a big deal. This was the first year for this core - they need time to gel. It's always tempting to be hyperbolic and be a prisoner of the moment but let's have some perspective.

I've been thinking about this.

The Knicks had enough talent to get this far and we can all agree that there's room to improve.

It sucks that we lost a very winnable series, but there is a lot of room for optimism.

[NYKat]

Watch on YouTube

Lot of knee jerk Knicks fans need to listen to Marks here between 1:38 - 4:34

I agree with his assessment 100 percent.

[spree2kawhi]

We almost made the Finals and clowns are acting relieved they can go back to bashing Towns now. Towns and Bridges drove this thing to the ECF. FOH.

[god shammgod]

Biggest ones are obviously if KAT and Brunson can coexist enough to truly win it all and if Thibs is the right coach

i believe the new starting lineup with mitch ended the post season positive. but to me, there's still too many holes to fill defensively and our two main guys don't even play well together offensively to overcome that.

[MrDollarBills]

Watch on YouTube

Lot of knee jerk Knicks fans need to listen to Marks here between 1:38 - 4:34

I agree with his assessment 100 percent.

He makes a good point.

The most likely thing that happens is that they add to this group and kick the tires again.

I would not extend Mikal this summer though. But that's just me.

[spree8]

Yeah I think it's obvious that these guys were never on the same page at all the entire year. When PJ started talking about communication and then we kept hearing about it after every loss. Even Mitch was getting on himself about not communicating defensively.

KAT and JB not being able to function offensively as a tandem in PnR/PnP screams that the chemistry is either bad or not where it needs to be.

If we are running it back with this core group, these guys need to spend some time this summer together working out, watching film and developing chemistry. Because the communication starts between them. Tom can't speak for them.

Brunson is the leader so I expect him to work towards fixing things.

Yea that’s the other part of why Denver won a title… Joker n Murray’s 2-man game is amazing. So between that, Joker being better than KAT overall, and their coaching (Malone is a better coach than Thibs, just because he’s an old white guy that plays shorter rotations doesn’t mean he’s the same lol), it got the job done.

If Thibs consistently sticks with the adjustments he made in the PO starting day 1… switch heavy defense, playing 9-10 guys every night so our guys aren’t dead this time of year (I think a lot of the TO’s were just mental fatigue), and Jalen n KAT work on developing a 2-man game, then we could win. Gotta work on that transition defense too and shoot more 3’s.

I think Leon, Wes, Rick, and co gotta talk to Tom about adding some modern wrinkles to his game plan. Longer rotations. More emphasis on shooting the deep ball. 3 point defense.

These are things that can be corrected.

It's okay to need help. There's no shame in that.

Like yeah, I had a lot of concerns with what Tom did this year. But we got to the conference finals. He's not getting fired. So I think the entire organization from the front office down to the 15th man need to come together to figure out what works, what doesn't, and what can be made better.

I hope he’s receptive to it. Scary cuz even Dolan said Thibs wouldn’t listen to him about the minutes lol. We’re really not asking for a lot, that’s what’s so frustrating. But let’s hope for the best..

[Iron Mantis]

Yeah I think it's obvious that these guys were never on the same page at all the entire year. When PJ started talking about communication and then we kept hearing about it after every loss. Even Mitch was getting on himself about not communicating defensively.

KAT and JB not being able to function offensively as a tandem in PnR/PnP screams that the chemistry is either bad or not where it needs to be.

If we are running it back with this core group, these guys need to spend some time this summer together working out, watching film and developing chemistry. Because the communication starts between them. Tom can't speak for them.

Brunson is the leader so I expect him to work towards fixing things.

Yea that’s the other part of why Denver won a title… Joker n Murray’s 2-man game is amazing. So between that, Joker being better than KAT overall, and their coaching (Malone is a better coach than Thibs, just because he’s an old white guy that plays shorter rotations doesn’t mean he’s the same lol), it got the job done.

If Thibs consistently sticks with the adjustments he made in the PO starting day 1… switch heavy defense, playing 9-10 guys every night so our guys aren’t dead this time of year (I think a lot of the TO’s were just mental fatigue), and Jalen n KAT work on developing a 2-man game, then we could win. Gotta work on that transition defense too and shoot more 3’s.

I think Leon, Wes, Rick, and co gotta talk to Tom about adding some modern wrinkles to his game plan. Longer rotations. More emphasis on shooting the deep ball. 3 point defense.

These are things that can be corrected.

It's okay to need help. There's no shame in that.

Like yeah, I had a lot of concerns with what Tom did this year. But we got to the conference finals. He's not getting fired. So I think the entire organization from the front office down to the 15th man need to come together to figure out what works, what doesn't, and what can be made better.

If a 67 year-old 13 year head coach needs to be coached on how to coach....it may be time for a change.

[dakomish23]

Jalen Brunson Hero Ball had a bigger negative effect than KAT in my opinion. KAT was our best player easily

Yesterday in the 2nd half I get it. We just needed to stop the bleeding.

There was def a bit too much of that too early in games. I understand if under two minutes close game. But we fell into it early IMO

Brunson when more of a floor general getting others involved and getting his in the flow of the offense is probably the best PG in the league. We saw it game 3 DET game 4 BOS. He was unreal.

[K_ick_God]

towns plus minus is a reflection of him playing with the bench unit in this series. mcbride has the best and mitch had the 2nd best until they made him a starter. landry shamet played a total of 83 minutes and is 3rd best and wright played 48 minutes and is 4th best. context matters.

But you could say they did well bc they played with him

At worst, for KAT, he was positive with good role players around him — players who were marginal roster guys

[Jeff Van Gully]

Jalen Brunson Hero Ball had a bigger negative effect than KAT in my opinion. KAT was our best player easily

Yesterday in the 2nd half I get it. We just needed to stop the bleeding.

There was def a bit too much of that too early in games. I understand if under two minutes close game. But we fell into it early IMO

Brunson when more of a floor general getting others involved and getting his in the flow of the offense is probably the best PG in the league. We saw it game 3 DET game 4 BOS. He was unreal.

pacers defended our trench warfare approach really well. we made them uncomfortable on the perimeter in game 5. they made the interior game difficult in game 6. lots of good deflections that caused turnovers that opened the game up for them.

i hated to see it, but it was well done. they deserve more than a little credit for how that game went.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Yea that’s the other part of why Denver won a title… Joker n Murray’s 2-man game is amazing. So between that, Joker being better than KAT overall, and their coaching (Malone is a better coach than Thibs, just because he’s an old white guy that plays shorter rotations doesn’t mean he’s the same lol), it got the job done.

If Thibs consistently sticks with the adjustments he made in the PO starting day 1… switch heavy defense, playing 9-10 guys every night so our guys aren’t dead this time of year (I think a lot of the TO’s were just mental fatigue), and Jalen n KAT work on developing a 2-man game, then we could win. Gotta work on that transition defense too and shoot more 3’s.

I think Leon, Wes, Rick, and co gotta talk to Tom about adding some modern wrinkles to his game plan. Longer rotations. More emphasis on shooting the deep ball. 3 point defense.

These are things that can be corrected.

It's okay to need help. There's no shame in that.

Like yeah, I had a lot of concerns with what Tom did this year. But we got to the conference finals. He's not getting fired. So I think the entire organization from the front office down to the 15th man need to come together to figure out what works, what doesn't, and what can be made better.

If a 67 year-old 13 year head coach needs to be coached on how to coach....it may be time for a change.

i know you need to do what you do here, but gregg popovich would strongly disagree with you on this one. he would argue that the humility, openmindedness, and adaptability kept him in the game.

[Iron Mantis]

I think Leon, Wes, Rick, and co gotta talk to Tom about adding some modern wrinkles to his game plan. Longer rotations. More emphasis on shooting the deep ball. 3 point defense.

These are things that can be corrected.

It's okay to need help. There's no shame in that.

Like yeah, I had a lot of concerns with what Tom did this year. But we got to the conference finals. He's not getting fired. So I think the entire organization from the front office down to the 15th man need to come together to figure out what works, what doesn't, and what can be made better.

If a 67 year-old 13 year head coach needs to be coached on how to coach....it may be time for a change.

i know you need to do what you do here, but gregg popovich would strongly disagree with you on this one. he would argue that the humility, openmindedness, and adaptability kept him in the game.

And Thibs has none of those characteristics....

And I do not believe at 67 years old that popovich needed the president of basketball operations or team owner to teach him how to coach.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Biggest ones are obviously if KAT and Brunson can coexist enough to truly win it all and if Thibs is the right coach

i believe the new starting lineup with mitch ended the post season positive. but to me, there's still too many holes to fill defensively and our two main guys don't even play well together offensively to overcome that.

The starting lineup looked much better with Mitch, and KAT looks good with the bench units. Robinson/KAT had a 105 defensive rating and +4.4 net rating. There might be something there. I would say we would be going to game 7 if we started the series with that lineup.

But yea, Brunson/KAT just never looked totally in sync offensively together. Do they just not fit, is it coaching, chemistry?

[cgmw]

The Knicks are going to be more than fine. Making a deep ECF run for the first time in 25 years is a big deal. This was the first year for this core - they need time to gel. It's always tempting to be hyperbolic and be a prisoner of the moment but let's have some perspective.

[/RealGM_welcome_bus.jpg]

[Zenzibar]

Yup. Indy wasn't that good last year. They're really good this year, so . . . very different series. Last year we were clearly the better team. We were just really banged up. This year, hate to say it, but they were the better team.

Sure, if we would have brought back last year's Knicks we would have beat them. But while the Pacer's developed continuity, we brought back pratically a new band.

A worse band.

This team does not have the fight and spirit of that team. This team does not represent New York.

The Randle,and iHart team had continuity, with even OG having some time together with them.

Towns, Mikal and even Cam Payne were new to the team and had to learn a totally new system. The Pacers have no new players to the core and showed that they were more in sync than us. Case in point is OKC and their top three players, SGA, Willams and Holmgren have grown up in the system.

My feeling is that we have another year to build upon. Last year was the semi-final, this year the conference finals with a different core.
So while some fans want to rip this team up, I rather build upon it.

[G_K_F]

Sure, if we would have brought back last year's Knicks we would have beat them. But while the Pacer's developed continuity, we brought back pratically a new band.

A worse band.

This team does not have the fight and spirit of that team. This team does not represent New York.

The Randle,and iHart team had continuity, with even OG having some time together with them.

Towns, Mikal and even Cam Payne were new to the team and had to learn a totally new system. The Pacers have no new players to the core and showed that they were more in sync than us. Case in point is OKC and their top three players, SGA, Willams and Holmgren have grown up in the system.

My feeling is that we have another year to build upon. Last year was the semi-final, this year the conference finals with a different core.
So while some fans want to rip this team up, I rather build upon it.

Thibs doesn’t have a system. There’s nothing to learn.

Look, you can make all the excuses in the world - a team with Karl Anthony Towns as its second best player will never in any lifetime win an NBA title. If this franchise wants to waste the rest of Brunson’s prime trying to building around KAT’s many flaws then there’s no reason to care about them.

Continuity is fine when you’re building a roster of high IQ, hard working players who are mentally strong. KAT is not that. Mikal is not that. Can Payne is not that. The roster construction was a complete 180 from what we had before and it shows. Building upon this roster and wanting continuity for this specific roster is a recipe for failure.

[Zenzibar]

Sure, if we would have brought back last year's Knicks we would have beat them. But while the Pacer's developed continuity, we brought back pratically a new band.

A worse band.

This team does not have the fight and spirit of that team. This team does not represent New York.

We became more "Cavs" (regular season offense centric and kinda soft"ish") and less Knicks. Interesting enough he was good enough to beat the Celts, but not Indiana...or maybe it could have been if the could was.....

But last years squad if healthy destroys that years Indiana. Indiana got better...without adding anyone of note. Perhaps we can as well...get that "familiarity" bump. But we'll need an identity first.

That's the key there, you're saying that Indy has continuity and got better, I agree. Hopefully after licking their wounds these Knicks will be more in sync, add value to this experience, as Indy did after being swept last year by Boston.

[nedleeds]

If a 67 year-old 13 year head coach needs to be coached on how to coach....it may be time for a change.

i know you need to do what you do here, but gregg popovich would strongly disagree with you on this one. he would argue that the humility, openmindedness, and adaptability kept him in the game.

And Thibs has none of those characteristics....

And I do not believe at 67 years old that popovich needed the president of basketball operations or team owner to teach him how to coach.

Its all just homer delusion, people claiming a roster of soon to be 30 year olds -- most now with injury history have "lots of room for improvement"

[Luv those Knicks]

Sure, if we would have brought back last year's Knicks we would have beat them. But while the Pacer's developed continuity, we brought back pratically a new band.

A worse band.

This team does not have the fight and spirit of that team. This team does not represent New York.

The Randle,and iHart team had continuity, with even OG having some time together with them.

Towns, Mikal and even Cam Payne were new to the team and had to learn a totally new system. The Pacers have no new players to the core and showed that they were more in sync than us. Case in point is OKC and their top three players, SGA, Willams and Holmgren have grown up in the system.

My feeling is that we have another year to build upon. Last year was the semi-final, this year the conference finals with a different core.
So while some fans want to rip this team up, I rather build upon it.

I think the Pacers brought in one new player this year, but one is less than 3, obviously.

Maybe they'll gel and be better next year. I'd still like a deeper bench and perhaps a new coach as well. I'm not as anti Thibs as some posters here are, but I wouldn't say no to a new coach and a different approach.

[nedleeds]

A worse band.

This team does not have the fight and spirit of that team. This team does not represent New York.

We became more "Cavs" (regular season offense centric and kinda soft"ish") and less Knicks. Interesting enough he was good enough to beat the Celts, but not Indiana...or maybe it could have been if the could was.....

But last years squad if healthy destroys that years Indiana. Indiana got better...without adding anyone of note. Perhaps we can as well...get that "familiarity" bump. But we'll need an identity first.

That's the key there, you're saying that Indy has continuity and got better, I agree. Hopefully after licking their wounds these Knicks will be more in sync, add value to this experience, as Indy did after being swept last year by Boston.

25, 25, 25, 29, 31.

27, 28, 28, 29, 30.

The Pacers starters are entering their prime. Ours approaching 30. They've destroyed us 2 playoffs in a row. Try again.