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The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here..

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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#781 » by mugzi » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:31 am

Capn'O wrote:
mugzi wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
And I work at a large bank, am a grownup, understand how the world can be sometimes, but simple fact is, people have gotten f*n greedy the last 10 years. Making money if fine. Making lots of money is more fine. Being an F*n pig about it in regards to rest of society is not.


I dont disagree with you, except for this last part. People have always been greedy. Human nature doesn't change.

Look at history, the Egyptians enslaved the Jews, then you had empires from the Roman to the Ottoman subjugating people. The Middle ages, fiefs, serfdom, the birth of America, slavery here, the caste system in India, etc etc.

The point I'm making is that in just these few examples Ive shown there's been a small group of people acting like pigs towards their fellow man. And this was justified on racial superiority, colonialism, etc.

There's only two types of people in this global society now. The rich and the rest of us. Not black, white, chinese, latin, etc etc.

Now do certain people with certain political leanings and agendas try to make everything about race, sure but if you look deeper the root cause of nearly all human suffering has to do with money, those who don't have it are beholden to those who do. It's still slavery, just a softer type with a different name and face.

Communists and socialists would have you believe capitalism is the root cause of all that ails this global economy. Yet everytime they try their enlightened brand of economic egalitarianism it doesn't work. Why is that? Well part of it is corruption by the state, large amounts of a nations wealth controlled by the elite in power.

This may shock my adversaries on this thread but I'd have no problem with communism under one condition. That the leaders of the communist nation had to live in the same exact kind of house, drive the same type of car and be limited to the same food, furniture and other amenities that their proletariat would receive.

But that would never happen. Because then the leaders of said nation would be subjected to the same sub standard conditions that their people have to endure. Communism loses it's cache for a gov't official when they can't hoard their nations wealth and divvy it up amongst the chosen few.

So lets look at what capitalism has actually done for the world and this nation in particular. Well it has made America the richest most prosperous nation on earth. Is that evil? Flawed as they may be the US capital markets are the greatest engine of wealth creation this planet has ever seen.

Capitalism isnt perfect but it's the best system that's been introduced so far. And unless people think that a NWO one govt global communism will be better, which it wont, then I dont see things changing anytime within our lifetimes.


Mugzi, you make some interesting posts when you go off of the attack. I wonder though, if you believe what I bolded, why you wouldn't support political measures within a capitalist society that would work to safeguard the poor and make sure some resources are allocated for their well being and infrastructure? I tend to think that free markets push the intellectual engine as well as the economic one within the country but that a mix of socialist policy is necessary to ensure a degree of stability and opportunity that wouldn't exist in a strictly capitalist society... there are certain things that government does well and certain things it doesn't (and I think you would be surprised at some of the things I think it doesn't do well...)


But haven't we tried allocating resources that way vis a vis social security/welfare/medicare etc?

Where has that gotten us? SS will be bankrupt by the time you and I reach retirement age, welfare is used by most as a continuous free ride and medicare provides medical assistance to people who by and large have made poor health decisions in their lives and need assistance to pay for their diabetes or heart medication, etc.

I believe in empowerment, not in entitlements.

If you're going to tackle poverty on any real level, the root causes have to be addressed. And those stem from lack of real education, and the decline of the nuclear family.

The educational system in this country has become a joke. We spend more per child I believe than almost every developed nation yet we're falling further and further behind in our kids performance.

The curriculum has to be updated, improved and teachers need to be held to strict performance standards. Wisconsin teachers earn over 100k in total compensation a year yet their students test scores are in the lower half of the nation. Somethings wrong there.

You know how easy it's become to get a college degree in this country? Hell, I went to UCLA, showed up on the first day for all my classes to get the syllabus, showed up for the midterm and finals and that was it. And still maintained a 3.0 gpa without even trying.

If I could direct policy, I would do a few things to try to right the ship.

One I'd tell China to fly right or go fly a kite. And what I mean is, Id tell them if they want to continue to do business with us, they need to revalue their currency immediately to an appropriate level which would eliminate our trade deficit with them, and I'd also tell them that they need to enact major reforms to crack down on the rampant piracy that plagues their nation and affects American business. I dont think Trump would make a good president but he is right that China is getting away with murder with us.

I'd also slash corporate tax rates enough to entice business to bring back manufacturing jobs that have been lost.

Then I would get the govt out of the mortgage biz once and for all. Let Fannie and Freddie die, they will continue to do nothing but suck this country dry if we let them.

I'd also eliminate job killing free trade agreements like NAFTA, it has not helped the average American worker at all.

Thats just the tip of the iceburg, but if we had actual leadership and people willing to make those bold decisions, this economy would get a definite shot in the arm.
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Re: OT: Oil Companies Controlling Nuclear Media Coverage 

Post#782 » by fullermd » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:02 am

mugzi wrote:

Look at history, the Egyptians enslaved the Jews, then you had empires from the Roman to the Ottoman subjugating people. The Middle ages, fiefs, serfdom, the birth of America, slavery here, the caste system in India, etc etc.

The point I'm making is that in just these few examples Ive shown there's been a small group of people acting like pigs towards their fellow man. And this was justified on racial superiority, colonialism, etc.

There's only two types of people in this global society now. The rich and the rest of us. Not black, white, chinese, latin, etc etc.

Now do certain people with certain political leanings and agendas try to make everything about race, sure but if you look deeper the root cause of nearly all human suffering has to do with money, those who don't have it are beholden to those who do. It's still slavery, just a softer type with a different name and face.


These are all great points, with the exception of the slavery comparison. The Hebrews in Egypt kept their language, religion, traditions, were literate permitted to read and study, maintained their family structures, which were not violated w/o official mandate. This is very much the case in every other example you mentioned, with the exception of American Slavery------the African Slave Trade/Enslavement of 16th-19th centuries is unparalleled in the history of man, in regards to the ultimate debasing of human beings. To the point that even a hundred and fifty years later the humanity of African Descendents is still questioned and challenged. No other race of people (that I am aware of), with the exception of Native Americans and the indigenous people of Australia/New Zealand even come close to being exploited in the horrific ways that African descendents were. Over 90million were estimated to die in the African diaspora. Once arriving in, or being born in slavery, the brutality experienced is unspeakable.
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#783 » by mugzi » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:10 am

I agree that culturally the American slave traders tried to erase African culture. But they weren't entirely successful in that regard. And slavery is slavery. I don't think its right or accurate to say that one people's subjugation under slavery was less or more than another.

And I have a history degree and even though it was from a very liberal institution I never once heard anything close to that number of deaths in the African diaspora. That wreaks of revisionism to me.

Fuller, I cant help but notice that you make race an issue often on the board. Why? Are you black? If so, do you feel as if America still owes black people something for its past sins?
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#784 » by mugzi » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:13 am

Here's a blog that to me nails liberalism.

The Post-American Liberal Culture
Sultan Knish a blog by Daniel Greenfield ^ | March 15, 2011 | Daniel Greenfield
Posted on Wed Mar 16 2011 00:34:34 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) by 6ft2inhighheelshoes

Even as an NPR associate was admitting that it had marginalized itself by targeting a liberal culture elite (which she generously estimated at 11 percent of the country), David Brooks was making the case that America needs PBS to provide it with a common culture. So which is it. Is public broadcasting the realm of a liberal culture elite or a defining common ground for what being an American means?

Liberals have over time successfully redefined liberal values as American values. Their cultural revisionism has worked so well that even for many conservatives, it is hard to tell one from the other. Particularly on immigration, tolerance, education and foreign affairs-- among many others. Their cultural programming stopped trying to assimilate immigrants around the 1970's, but has redoubled its efforts to assimilate Americans. And over and over again they have been successful. Wildly so. America is a country of conservative values, which becomes unrecognizable every generation.

Public broadcasting does not represent a common culture, but a culture of consensus. It reflects a liberal worldview. And liberals have a great deal of trouble articulating what America is. Ask a liberal what America should be, and he'll chew your ear off. Ask him what's wrong with America, and he'll offer you a reading list. But ask him what America is-- besides a massive social service center or a collection of war crimes and corporations, and he'll have no real answer.

The liberal worldview is post-national and multicultural. If 19th and early 20th century liberals could articulate the 'Union' as the defining point of America, by the 21st century the "Union" has given way to the "United Nations" as the ideal. Global federalism replacing national federalism. Bigger and bigger forms of government which have no room for American exceptionalism or nationalism. Where Mark Twain could favorably compare American democracy to the national institutions of Europe and the Ottoman Empire, the modern day liberal avoids such dangerous ground.

Liberalism has embraced relativism, trapping it in a feedback loop of reflexive national self-criticism. Talk about the status of women in the Muslim world, and a liberal interjects by pointing out unequal salary levels in America. Mention genocide in the Sudan and he talks about Native Americans. Summon outrage over some a beam in the Third World, and the liberal finds a mote in your eye. There's a protective ideological short circuit in that thinking, a governor that cuts in to defend against dangerous ideas with an irrelevant counterattack.

Soviet citizens were trained to respond to all criticisms of human rights in the USSR by shouting, "But Negroes are being lynched in Alabama." One had nothing to do with the other. The chief function of such responses is to immediately deflect dangerous ideas before they can be considered. Liberals invert the Soviet practice by replying to any criticism of non-Western countries with, "But Negroes are being lynched in Alabama." Less a criticism than a magic totem phrase that keeps them from making value judgments. A "What right do you have to judge" invocation that completely fails to address the problem, but instead silences the entire discussion.

As the UN has replaced the American Union as the most moral form of liberal government, so too multiculturalism has replaced American culture. Once liberals decided that America was no longer the world's beacon of freedom, its lady with the golden torch holding open a doorway for exiles, its culture ceased to have any value. The E Pluribus Unum was no longer the American experiment, but the global one without need of any country. H.G. Wells' The Shape of Things to Come had eclipsed Jefferson, Paine and Twain in their imagination. Their burning vision was no longer of a country that would be a model to the world, a shining city on a hill, a new Jerusalem-- but of an age of global revolution and international brotherhood. The American exceptionalism that they had embraced in the fevers of 1776 and 1861 was tossed aside. Now their mandate had become the Brotherhood of Man.

The Post-Civil War liberal enthusiasm for American Unionism had soured with WW1, soured, revived and then soured against with WW2. By Korea, American soldiers were mass murderers. By Vietnam, they were maddened apocalyptic monsters serving a state of lunatic statesmen. Today they're torturers and murderers engaged in a bigoted crusade that obstructs global understanding in the service of corporations and bible loving rednecks. This is the worldview of everything from the media to academia, and from the entertainment industry to the non-profits. They see themselves as engaged in a struggle with evil and the name of that evil is America.

This is what NPR and PBS and the whole ugly Titanic of liberal cultural warfare pits itself against. American exceptionalism is their mortal enemy. A sin of arrogance by a country with an ugly history whose every attempt at sovereignty and every effort to cling to freedom is an offense against their globalist ideals. O'Keefe's NPR sting captured that attitude on tape. But it is a wholly ubiquitous and unsurprising attitude. It's the default position among the liberal elite. And it radiates from everything they touch, from the pit of the lowest entertainment to the highest ivory tower of ideas. It has become an inseparable part of them.

Can people who think like that assimilate immigrants? What would they assimilate them into. 19th and 20th century liberals wanted to assimilate immigrants, because those immigrants were more religious and did not share their assumptions and beliefs. But liberals don't think that way about immigrants anymore, just about their own fellow Americans. And they wouldn't know what to assimilate immigrants into if they tried.

Popular American culture is globally ubiquitous and meaningless. The world wears baseball caps and T-shirts, and listens to music from Cleveland, Detroit and New York and watches movies from Los Angeles. But as liberals have changed, so have the assumptions of the cultural products they make. The world still watches American movies, but they no longer convey that old American sense of optimism and confidence in wrongs being righted, but rather they speak an international language of opulence and cynicism. American culture has become kinetic, hyperactive in its dazzling displays of sound and light, yet conveying nothing except wealth and power. A foreigner watching Hollywood movies of the 40's and 50's could gain a sense of who Americans were, or who they thought they were. Today he knows American cities intimately without ever setting in foot in them, he knows that all Americans are rich, American women are easy, American life is violent and American government is corrupt. To the world, America has become a mirror of its sins and vices. Whatever fault they find at home, they see redoubled in American popular culture.

For all that liberal filmmakers fly the occasional American flag in a crucial scene, or news anchors do their best homespun tone, or liberal musicians go on the occasional USO tour-- they don't believe in their own country. And it shows. This is Brooks' common ground culture and it doesn't look very pretty. You can hear it in Obama's teleprompter fed attempts at patriotism or Pelosi trying to speak about biblical values. You can stop by the local theater to see once again that the only heroic American soldiers in movies are fighting aliens, not terrorists. The tropes are there, but they lack content. The symbols are there, but there is no faith behind them.

NPR and PBS's exercises in faux Americanism fall into that same sad category. The tape rolls, the flag unfurls and there's nothing inside it except stories about diversity, British programs, liberals droning on about something no one can stay awake long enough to listen to, fake country color (which has come down a long way from Mark Twain to Garrison Keillor), the hobbies and shopping habits of the elite, their tastes and opinions. Their worldview leavened with occasional exotic imports to remind them of how broadminded they are. What does this all add up to? Nothing.

Multiculturalism is more of an absence than a presence. A throwing up of the hands, as if to say, "We don't know who we are, you guys get together and figure it out." Multiculturalism is a math teacher saying that every answer to X + Y = 4 is valid, except the ones she doesn't like. Multiculturalism is liberals saying that they don't know who they are anymore, but they know who they aren't. They aren't Republicans, they aren't into biblical literalism or flag waving or English Only signs or cheering the troops. They may not know who they are, but they damn well know who they aren't. They aren't Americans.

Defining multiculturalism as Americanism is not a definition, but an absence of a definition. And that's the definition that liberals are most comfortable with. The missing answer. The absence. The abyss. They don't know who they are anymore, but they damn well sure intend that no one else find out either. In the meantime they are citizens of the world, they are human beings who are concerned about the plight of other human beings so long as they are as different from them as possible. They are open-minded, tolerant and willing to listen to anyone who isn't an American.

Liberals have hijacked the culture with no real idea where to take it. Like stupid bank robbers, they're making their getaway, but where are they going? Anywhere but here. Anywhere but America. Their big idea is internationalism, the brotherhood of man, mingling with the nations of the world, tearing down borders and singing John Lennon sings. And to do that, they have decided they don't need to know who they are. Even as they spend half their time trying to discover themselves in self-help sections. Searching for happiness in other countries and cultures. Constantly exploring everything, even as the cold realization creeps in that they have nothing to come home to.

Their culture war has become an extended filibuster making less and less sense by the hour. They traffic in cliches, and the substance is completely lost. It's easy enough to see that in the media or in the entertainment industry. Or to listen to one of Obama's overpraised speeches, which have less semantic content than a box of cereal. NPR and PBS come down to the same thing. Much talk with no content. "Where's the beef?" "There isn't any. We all eat soy now."

NPR and PBS reflect the tastes and attitudes of a lost elite, a liberal bicoastal Brahmin caste forever at war with the untouchables of the heartland. Its public service is a service to that one percent of the country which treats NPR listenership and PBS viewership as hallmarks of its own superiority, toting PBS and NPR carry bags like Mensa membership cards. A sign to discerning people that you are a discerning person. A non-profit status symbol, among the many non-profit status symbols of the elite.

The bike riding, sandal wearing NPR listener, who furrows his brow over events in Libya, demands only Fair Trade coffee and is forever explaining to people that Burma is now Myanmar, knows that he is a better person for it. Not a better American, but a better Citizen of Gaia. The PBS viewer, who totes her tote full of library books on Southeast Asia, retired after working in some capacity for the government, signs petitions for whales, donates money to the Southern Poverty Law Center and listens to hideous Chinese operas for the same reason. None of these things matter in and of themselves. But they testify to the status of liberalism as a status symbol.

Liberals could easily fund all of public broadcasting with a shake of their wallets. But they wouldn't want to. Public broadcasting has an air of mission about it. Take the 'public' out of the equation and it all too quickly stands revealed for what it is, a status symbol and a club for the elite. A game played by the rebellious children of the upper class and middle class aspirants to that status. Its rules are arbitrary and so are its values. Like James Dean's rebel, it knows what it is against, but only has a faint idea of what it is for. It dresses up its simple thoughts in complex formulas, leaps from trend to trend to always be ahead of whatever it is escaping, and finds charm only in ironic detachment. And that ditzy elitism requires that its culture be worthless in order to be worthwhile, non-profit in order to be profitable and meaningless in order to have meaning.

The liberal aspires to be post-modern, post-consumer and post-American. He admires Banksy, wears shoes made out of recycled tires and prides himself on being ashamed of his country. His culture is as hollow as it is hypocritical, as antithetical as it is absurd. It is a culture of being against things. Of running away from things only to find himself doing them anyway. Tearing down art in order to reclaim it and collect it. Shopping for anti-consumer goods to take a stand against consumerism. Bashing his own country in order to be proud of it again. Thus the childish perversity of our cultural hijackers undoes themselves.
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#785 » by Capn'O » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:48 pm

mugzi wrote:
But haven't we tried allocating resources that way vis a vis social security/welfare/medicare etc?

Where has that gotten us? SS will be bankrupt by the time you and I reach retirement age, welfare is used by most as a continuous free ride and medicare provides medical assistance to people who by and large have made poor health decisions in their lives and need assistance to pay for their diabetes or heart medication, etc.

I believe in empowerment, not in entitlements.

If you're going to tackle poverty on any real level, the root causes have to be addressed. And those stem from lack of real education, and the decline of the nuclear family.

The educational system in this country has become a joke. We spend more per child I believe than almost every developed nation yet we're falling further and further behind in our kids performance.

The curriculum has to be updated, improved and teachers need to be held to strict performance standards. Wisconsin teachers earn over 100k in total compensation a year yet their students test scores are in the lower half of the nation. Somethings wrong there.

You know how easy it's become to get a college degree in this country? Hell, I went to UCLA, showed up on the first day for all my classes to get the syllabus, showed up for the midterm and finals and that was it. And still maintained a 3.0 gpa without even trying.

If I could direct policy, I would do a few things to try to right the ship.

One I'd tell China to fly right or go fly a kite. And what I mean is, Id tell them if they want to continue to do business with us, they need to revalue their currency immediately to an appropriate level which would eliminate our trade deficit with them, and I'd also tell them that they need to enact major reforms to crack down on the rampant piracy that plagues their nation and affects American business. I dont think Trump would make a good president but he is right that China is getting away with murder with us.

I'd also slash corporate tax rates enough to entice business to bring back manufacturing jobs that have been lost.

Then I would get the govt out of the mortgage biz once and for all. Let Fannie and Freddie die, they will continue to do nothing but suck this country dry if we let them.

I'd also eliminate job killing free trade agreements like NAFTA, it has not helped the average American worker at all.

Thats just the tip of the iceburg, but if we had actual leadership and people willing to make those bold decisions, this economy would get a definite shot in the arm.


You've actually identified an area where I think the Federal government, in particular is horribly inefficient. Administration of social programs has really never been their strong suit and most times that they get caught up perpetuating the very scenario that they were trying to avoid because the sheer scale of the nation is two diverse to filter through one mouthpiece.

What's disappointing about the early stages of this whole Tea Party shabang is

1. So many of the leaders and people involved are just absolute nutjobs and completely oblivious to the political process and impact of their proposals.

and

2. that the cuts that are actually happening are happening in the areas where Federal Governments are most effective - collecting money and reallocating based on merit and need. Programs like CDBG and CWA Title 301 that reallocate money to states, local governments and NGOs THAT ACTUALLY GET WORK DONE are getting funding cut left and right while the big cash cows INCLUDING IMPERIALIST MILITARY POLICY* that suck our resources dry remain relatively untouched.

I also want to address your point about cutting corporate taxes - I wish that would bring manufacturing jobs back but the #1 reason by a large, large margin that so many manufacturing corporations relocated is cost of labor is much lower in other countries than it is here. That is why even as developing countries begin to ramp up their environmental regs and fees abroad we are not seeing industry return to the United States. Why pay your workforce 7.50 an hour (or whatever minimum wage is these days) when you can pay them a dollar a day? Either way, when you adjust for cost of living the workers are just scraping by but the profit margin is just too large to ignore.

The only solution to leveling the playing field and bringing industry back home is a global one that has so many other ramifications that it is not yet viable. FIRE (as Mildred puts it) was not an economy of choice but one of adaptation, unfortunately.

*Which is why I am a pretty big fan of Obama's "guiding hand" approach to the Middle East uprisings and the general scaling back and diplomacy efforts he has undertaken abroad.
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#786 » by mugzi » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:57 pm

I dont disagree that globalism has really hurt this economy. It is true that there are workers in certain parts of the globe that will work for peanuts compared to even the minimum wage here, its a vicious cycle.

Its the inherent contradiction of capitalism, its a system that creates massive wealth, but that wealth is maximized by minimizing costs and when you can slash labor costs by 50-75% you do it and don't look back otherwise your competition does and you become obsolete.

I dont see things getting better, I see them getting worse. I dont think the economys coming back, despite what the talking heads tell you on the news. I can see riots happening in this country especially in the next few years. We just simply don't have enough jobs anymore for the size of our workforce.

I just worry that if there's enough civil unrest that Obama will use that as a pretext to try to declare Martial Law and then we'll never get rid of him. I'm prepared for whatever, I believe personal protection is paramount.

Personally I think Obama's whole approach to the Middle East crises has been a joke. He's sat idly by while Egypt went down. Mubarak may have been a dictator, but he was a US ally. What's the alternative there? Install a puppet regime run by the Muslim Brotherhood? As if thats not a dictatorship?

And how hard would it be to enforce a no-fly zone over Libya?

No instead you have Hillary making empty statements about peaceful demonstrations and political solutions. Like it or not the world looks to the USA for leadership in times like this and going to play golf for the 61st time in your presidency, filling out an NCAA bracket on ESPN and planning another vacation for your family on the taxpayers dime is endemic of a party boy, not a president.

This isnt leadership, this is a joke. I cant wait until this man is gone.
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#787 » by mugzi » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:00 pm

HANDS OFF MY INTERNET NANNY STATE!!!!!!!!!

by Declan McCullagh


The White House today proposed sweeping revisions to U.S. copyright law, including making "illegal streaming" of audio or video a federal felony and allowing FBI agents to wiretap suspected infringers.
In a 20-page white paper (PDF), the Obama administration called on the U.S. Congress to fix "deficiencies that could hinder enforcement" of intellectual property laws.


The report was prepared by Victoria Espinel, the first Intellectual Property Enforcement Coordinator who received Senate confirmation in December 2009, and represents a broad tightening of many forms of intellectual property law including ones that deal with counterfeit pharmaceuticals and overseas royalties for copyright holders. (See CNET's report last month previewing today's white paper.)
Some of the highlights:
• The White House is concerned that "illegal streaming of content" may not be covered by criminal law, saying "questions have arisen about whether streaming constitutes the distribution of copyrighted works." To resolve that ambiguity, it wants a new law to "clarify that infringement by streaming, or by means of other similar new technology, is a felony in appropriate circumstances." :o


• Under federal law, wiretaps may only be conducted in investigations of serious crimes, a list that was expanded by the 2001 Patriot Act to include offenses such as material support of terrorism and use of weapons of mass destruction. The administration is proposing to add copyright and trademark infringement, arguing that move "would assist U.S. law enforcement agencies to effectively investigate those offenses."
• Under the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, it's generally illegal to distribute hardware or software--such as the DVD-decoding software Handbrake available from a server in France--that can "circumvent" copy protection technology. The administration is proposing that if Homeland Security seizes circumvention devices, it be permitted to "inform rightholders," "provide samples of such devices," and assist "them in bringing civil actions."
The term "fair use" does not appear anywhere in the report. But it does mention Web sites like The Pirate Bay, which is hosted in Sweden, when warning that "foreign-based and foreign-controlled Web sites and Web services raise particular concerns for U.S. enforcement efforts." (See previous coverage of a congressional hearing on overseas sites.)
The usual copyright hawks, including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, applauded the paper, which grew out of a so-called joint strategic plan that Vice President Biden and Espinel announced in June 2010.
Rob Calia, a senior director at the Chamber's Global Intellectual Property Center, said we "strongly support the white paper's call for Congress to clarify that criminal copyright infringement through unauthorized streaming, is a felony. We know both the House and Senate are looking at this issue and encourage them to work closely with the administration and other stakeholders to combat this growing threat."
In October 2008, President Bush signed into law the so-called Pro IP ACT, which created Espinel's position and increased penalties for infringement, after expressing its opposition to an earlier version.
Unless legislative proposals--like one nearly a decade ago implanting strict copy controls in digital devices--go too far, digital copyright tends not to be a particularly partisan topic.
The Digital Millennium Copyright Act, near-universally disliked by programmers and engineers for its anti-circumvention section, was approved unanimously in the U.S. Senate.
At the same time, Democratic politicians tend to be a bit more enthusiastic about the topic. Biden was a close Senate ally of copyright holders, and President Obama picked top copyright industry lawyers for Justice Department posts. Last year, Biden warned that "piracy is theft."
No less than 78 percent of political contributions from Hollywood went to Democrats in 2008, which is broadly consistent with the trend for the last two decades, according to OpenSecrets.org.


Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20043 ... z1GmV2qOdH
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#788 » by fullermd » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:51 pm

mugzi wrote:I agree that culturally the American slave traders tried to erase African culture. But they weren't entirely successful in that regard. And slavery is slavery. I don't think its right or accurate to say that one people's subjugation under slavery was less or more than another.

And I have a history degree and even though it was from a very liberal institution I never once heard anything close to that number of deaths in the African diaspora. That wreaks of revisionism to me.

Fuller, I cant help but notice that you make race an issue often on the board. Why? Are you black? If so, do you feel as if America still owes black people something for its past sins?


The numbers vary based on source. However, no source document that I have seen has come out and mentioned an accurate assessment of how many Africans died in the diaspora....but if you have some simple algebra skills you can deduce what the numbers are by combining statistics gathered from independent source documents. For instance: one source mentions that an estimated 10million Africans arrived in North America between the 15th and 19th centuries...(I think this is conservatively low- however, let's use that number). Another document mentions that North America (ie United States) only accounts for 3.5% of the African Slave trade (shocking?). You do a quick calculation and you get about 285million. Many accounts mention that there was a loss of 30% of the "cargo" during the overseas trips to final destinations to North/South Americas, which includes French, Portuguese, and British Americas/Islands. Some accounts say as much as 50%, some intentionally lost for insurance benefits/collections (by the way some of the insurance companies that insured slave ships are insuring today''s citizens). O.k. do the math, 30% of 285million is 85.5million.
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#789 » by richardhutnik » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:29 am

Where is the info on the "big oil cabal" trying to block nuclear, as a reality?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSiD7l_TXHM[/youtube]
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#790 » by fullermd » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:08 am

richardhutnik wrote:Where is the info on the "big oil cabal" trying to block nuclear, as a reality?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSiD7l_TXHM[/youtube]



Prime example of oil propaganda. However, the President understands what the oil companies are trying to do. They want to keep the U.S and world economies slaves to crude oil, and continue to rack up record profit margins due to escalated profits for any news story that may occur in the middle east. The amazing thing for me is that they can spill thousands of barrels of oil in the gulf coast for 45days and prices go down, but a story about Egypt or Lybia and prices go up almost 33percent. Point is, public sentiment towards BP/Shell was extremely low with the gulf spill, and even though they were losing thousands of barrels of oil daily, they could afford to lower prices. There is no need to say anything else on this.
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#791 » by fullermd » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:43 am

mugzi wrote:I dont disagree that globalism has really hurt this economy. It is true that there are workers in certain parts of the globe that will work for peanuts compared to even the minimum wage here, its a vicious cycle.

Its the inherent contradiction of capitalism, its a system that creates massive wealth, but that wealth is maximized by minimizing costs and when you can slash labor costs by 50-75% you do it and don't look back otherwise your competition does and you become obsolete.

I dont see things getting better, I see them getting worse. I dont think the economys coming back, despite what the talking heads tell you on the news. I can see riots happening in this country especially in the next few years. We just simply don't have enough jobs anymore for the size of our workforce.

I just worry that if there's enough civil unrest that Obama will use that as a pretext to try to declare Martial Law and then we'll never get rid of him. I'm prepared for whatever, I believe personal protection is paramount.

Personally I think Obama's whole approach to the Middle East crises has been a joke. He's sat idly by while Egypt went down. Mubarak may have been a dictator, but he was a US ally. What's the alternative there? Install a puppet regime run by the Muslim Brotherhood? As if thats not a dictatorship?

And how hard would it be to enforce a no-fly zone over Libya?

No instead you have Hillary making empty statements about peaceful demonstrations and political solutions. Like it or not the world looks to the USA for leadership in times like this and going to play golf for the 61st time in your presidency, filling out an NCAA bracket on ESPN and planning another vacation for your family on the taxpayers dime is endemic of a party boy, not a president.

This isnt leadership, this is a joke. I cant wait until this man is gone.


Calm down with all of your hate fueled ranting and raving. PRESIDENT Obama didn't initiate or perpetuate a decade of 1billion dollars/day wars that resulted in over $3.5 trillion dollars in national debt owed to foriegn banks and goverments. The interest rate of which is beyond our ability to pay. The person that is personally responsible for the deception of the American public via blatant lies and conceived conspiracies, is the one that has failed or ruined every other thing that he has ever put his hand to. Yes, the country has been sold to the highest bidder, but the administration that sold it is not in the White House now. They are sitting back accounting for all the money and power that they acquired by using U.S. Armed Forces and tax payer dollars to establish a means to pipe the natural gas out of the Middle East/Iraq, while controlling more of the international drug trade via Afghanistan, while we are stuck with the enormous amount of debt accumulated and with the highest gas prices in U.S. History.
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#792 » by richardhutnik » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:20 pm

fullermd wrote:
richardhutnik wrote:Where is the info on the "big oil cabal" trying to block nuclear, as a reality?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSiD7l_TXHM[/youtube]


Prime example of oil propaganda. However, the President understands what the oil companies are trying to do. They want to keep the U.S and world economies slaves to crude oil, and continue to rack up record profit margins due to escalated profits for any news story that may occur in the middle east. The amazing thing for me is that they can spill thousands of barrels of oil in the gulf coast for 45days and prices go down, but a story about Egypt or Lybia and prices go up almost 33percent. Point is, public sentiment towards BP/Shell was extremely low with the gulf spill, and even though they were losing thousands of barrels of oil daily, they could afford to lower prices. There is no need to say anything else on this.


You actually believe the left-leaning environmentalists who also oppose offshore drilling, and want to get off oil completely, are also some sort of oil propaganda? Cenk, who did that, is on the left and was opposed also to off-shore oil drilling. He rightly does label being pro-nuclear as being Republican agenda, because it is.

You may want to consider the world is more complicated than the belief that there is some sort of anti-nuclear cabal run by the oil industry.

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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#793 » by mugzi » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:07 pm

fullermd wrote:
mugzi wrote:I dont disagree that globalism has really hurt this economy. It is true that there are workers in certain parts of the globe that will work for peanuts compared to even the minimum wage here, its a vicious cycle.

Its the inherent contradiction of capitalism, its a system that creates massive wealth, but that wealth is maximized by minimizing costs and when you can slash labor costs by 50-75% you do it and don't look back otherwise your competition does and you become obsolete.

I dont see things getting better, I see them getting worse. I dont think the economys coming back, despite what the talking heads tell you on the news. I can see riots happening in this country especially in the next few years. We just simply don't have enough jobs anymore for the size of our workforce.

I just worry that if there's enough civil unrest that Obama will use that as a pretext to try to declare Martial Law and then we'll never get rid of him. I'm prepared for whatever, I believe personal protection is paramount.

Personally I think Obama's whole approach to the Middle East crises has been a joke. He's sat idly by while Egypt went down. Mubarak may have been a dictator, but he was a US ally. What's the alternative there? Install a puppet regime run by the Muslim Brotherhood? As if thats not a dictatorship?

And how hard would it be to enforce a no-fly zone over Libya?

No instead you have Hillary making empty statements about peaceful demonstrations and political solutions. Like it or not the world looks to the USA for leadership in times like this and going to play golf for the 61st time in your presidency, filling out an NCAA bracket on ESPN and planning another vacation for your family on the taxpayers dime is endemic of a party boy, not a president.

This isnt leadership, this is a joke. I cant wait until this man is gone.


Calm down with all of your hate fueled ranting and raving. PRESIDENT Obama didn't initiate or perpetuate a decade of 1billion dollars/day wars that resulted in over $3.5 trillion dollars in national debt owed to foriegn banks and goverments. The interest rate of which is beyond our ability to pay. The person that is personally responsible for the deception of the American public via blatant lies and conceived conspiracies, is the one that has failed or ruined every other thing that he has ever put his hand to. Yes, the country has been sold to the highest bidder, but the administration that sold it is not in the White House now. They are sitting back accounting for all the money and power that they acquired by using U.S. Armed Forces and tax payer dollars to establish a means to pipe the natural gas out of the Middle East/Iraq, while controlling more of the international drug trade via Afghanistan, while we are stuck with the enormous amount of debt accumulated and with the highest gas prices in U.S. History.


Oh so it's a hate filled rant to state facts about the president's ineptitude? Good to know. I guess because in your eyes it's hate since Obama's half African American and heaven forbid anyone criticizes the man for his policies, not his ethnicity. Since you love to make EVERYTHING about race. Louis Farrakhan likes to do that too, what are your thoughts on him?

You're either blind or willfully ignorant. Obama inherited a 500 bil deficit from Bush. He then exacerbated that by tripling that deficit within his first year.

...President Obama almost tripled deficit spending before his 100th day in office?
In 2008, the nation's yearly deficit was $459 billion. In 2009, the deficit is estimated to run $1.7 trillion.

According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office the national debt will grow by $9.3 trillion between 2010 and 2019 under Obama's budget plans. At this rate, the nation's publicly held debt would rise from 41 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2008 to 57 percent in 2009 and then to 82 percent of GDP by 2019.


And another distortion of facts, why would we need to "pipe natural gas out of Iraq" when as a nation, "As of 2009, the Potential Gas Committee estimated that the United States has total future recoverable natural gas resources approximately 100 times greater than current annual consumption."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas


So how about you admit for once your wrong {google is your friend} and take your false ranting elsewhere?
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#794 » by fullermd » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:57 am

Mugzi:

Here are some quick stats for you. Take a look and if you are rational and not full of hate, I think that you will be able to conceive that the spending increase by President Obama is a result of his attempt to jump-start the economy vice fiscal irresponsibility. Understand that the deficit trend that you mentioned is very much a function of the expected accrued interest associated with the percentage debt increases that I am going to show you:

Nixon/Ford Republican 1973-1977 .2% Increase in debt
Jimmy Carter Democrat 1977-1981 3.3% Decrease in debt
Ronald Reagan Republican 1981-1985 11.3% Increase in debt
Ronald Reagan Republican 1985-1989 9.3% Increase in debt
George H.W. Bush Rebublican 1989-1993 15% Increase in debt
Bill Clinton Democrat 1993-1997 .7% Decrease in debt
Bill Clinton Democrat 1997-2001 9% Decrease in debt
George W. Bush Republican 2001-2005 7.1% Increase in debt
George W. Bush Republican 2005-2009 20.0% Increase in debt

So to synthesize this data: Republican presidents over this period increased the national debt by a cumulative 63% (nearly 45% of which by President Obama's predecessor, G.W. Bush), while democratic presidents provided a cumulative decrease of 13%. No democratic president registered an increase in national debt.

A baseline synthesis of this data, without any mention of the condition of the economy at the time of President Obama's inauguration, leads me to think that the vast majority of your arguments are fueled by a white supremist/neo-racist mentality. Well, I can tell you this: Times are changing and they will never be the same. The inherent priviledges associated solely with the abscence of melanin in ones skin are evaporating as we speak. Now character and qualifications are gaining ground as the preliminary metrics in the analysis of whether opportunity is warranted or not. There is a whole generation of African American, Mexican American, Asian American and White American children (and children and people around the world) that have witnessed a very intelligent African American Man be the leader of the free world. The affects of THAT are irreversible and enduring in nature. Get with the program....stop calling evil good and wrong right. There is nothing to fear. Realize that the most abused and exploited people, are usually the most forgiving ones.
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#795 » by mugzi » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:50 pm

You forgot this

Image



You're so delusional and blinded by race it's pathetic. First you pull stats out of nowhere with no source, then you proceed to claim this gem...

A baseline synthesis of this data, without any mention of the condition of the economy at the time of President Obama's inauguration, leads me to think that the vast majority of your arguments are fueled by a white supremist/neo-racist mentality.

First of all bigot, I'm not defending W Bush, he was by and large a disappointment and left in his wake a half a trillion dollar deficit that was tripled by his successor. That's a fact, and no matter how much revisionism you want to do it can't be disputed.

Secondly, this is why no one likes or respects you on this board. You make everything about race. It's pathetic and indicative of a feeble mind obsessed with race and clearly showcases your own neo-racism {what a progressive little term there}.

And here's something that your narrow mind can't comprehend but being conservative and disliking the president because his policies are moronic doesn't make one a racist. It makes them concerned for the damage being inflicted on this country.

But I guess all white supremacists and "neo-racists" like basketball and hip hop music, and women of all races and faces because that's what the white devils are indoctrinated to believe at an early age, to embrace facets of other cultures and races to hone their neo-racism.

This is why ultimately liberals will never defeat conservatives because your morally and intellectually bankrupt and when confronted logically you resort to slander and bigotry by accusing those who disagree with you of the same thing. It would be sad if it wasn't dangerous. You propagate hate with one hand and accuse me of it with the other.

Oh and way to avoid answering my question about Farrakhan. So either you're a member yourself of his racist cult or tacitly approve of his words.

I know all I need to know about you, good day sir.
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#796 » by fullermd » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:15 am

mugzi wrote:You forgot this

Image



You're so delusional and blinded by race it's pathetic. First you pull stats out of nowhere with no source, then you proceed to claim this gem...

A baseline synthesis of this data, without any mention of the condition of the economy at the time of President Obama's inauguration, leads me to think that the vast majority of your arguments are fueled by a white supremist/neo-racist mentality.

First of all bigot, I'm not defending W Bush, he was by and large a disappointment and left in his wake a half a trillion dollar deficit that was tripled by his successor. That's a fact, and no matter how much revisionism you want to do it can't be disputed.

Secondly, this is why no one likes or respects you on this board. You make everything about race. It's pathetic and indicative of a feeble mind obsessed with race and clearly showcases your own neo-racism {what a progressive little term there}.

And here's something that your narrow mind can't comprehend but being conservative and disliking the president because his policies are moronic doesn't make one a racist. It makes them concerned for the damage being inflicted on this country.

But I guess all white supremacists and "neo-racists" like basketball and hip hop music, and women of all races and faces because that's what the white devils are indoctrinated to believe at an early age, to embrace facets of other cultures and races to hone their neo-racism.

This is why ultimately liberals will never defeat conservatives because your morally and intellectually bankrupt and when confronted logically you resort to slander and bigotry by accusing those who disagree with you of the same thing. It would be sad if it wasn't dangerous. You propagate hate with one hand and accuse me of it with the other.

Oh and way to avoid answering my question about Farrakhan. So either you're a member yourself of his racist cult or tacitly approve of his words.

I know all I need to know about you, good day sir.


Great. You layout definitive insults towards me for several paragraphs, and then end it with lower case 'sir'. Your writing wreaks with hatred. The only thing that will humble you Sir, is God. Pray that it happens for you, before you are held accountable for what is in your heart. I don't promote hatred or discord, I promote truth and love. Anything that lines up with it, I am for it. We are all equally children of the ultimate Creator, the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Its that simple for me. I am not commanded to hate men, but to hate that which is evil. White supremecy and any other form racism is evil, the affect that it has had on God's people both victims and perpetrators is unspeakable. I was once convinced, due to the things that I had experienced in life that I had to live my life with the reality of the presence of this evil in the forefront of my mind. Now I am convinced that although it is extremely prevalent in our world, that I am subject to God's will for me. That is enough for me. The statistics that I provided for you are truthful and relevant. Mismanagement of tax payer dollars existed a very long time before President Obama took office, especially in the previous eight years. The man is far from a moron. A great and brilliant human being is what he is. As for my narrow mind, I am almost certain that my eduacational/academic prowess will put you to shame. Don't be so quick to speak down to people, because of some folk story (or stories) that you heard growing up. Remember as I said the world is changing, never to be the same.
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#797 » by mugzi » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:30 am

fullermd wrote: As for my narrow mind, I am almost certain that my eduacational/academic prowess will put you to shame.


If you're going to brag about your educational prowess, here's a little advice. Spell educational correctly.

:lol:

And speaking of educational prowess, I earned a Bachelors degree from UCLA in History working full time, supporting myself and paying for school. I have been self-employed, managed 15 man teams and currently own a business.

I'm not trying to brag but you're not speaking to some high school dropout who lives in the south, clings to guns and religion and attends Klan rallies.

Now it wouldn't surprise me to claim you have a Masters or Doctorate in some liberal academic field like Ethnic Studies because you speak with a pomposity about history and ethnicity that reveals an elitist academic. And even if that were true, that doesn't give you carte blanche to disparage me as having a racist mentality because I disagree with your politics and the president. Then you have the temerity to tell me I spent a few paragraphs definitively insulting you after you hurl bile like that at me.

Maybe you forget how the God of Abraham dealt with hypocrites, and claiming someone else has a racist, white supremacist mentality while showing clear signs of being a black supremacist himself wreaks of hypocrisy.

Isiah 29:13 The Lord says: "These people come near me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain, their teachings are but rules taught by men."

Matthew 7:4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?

And I don't make it a habit of quoting the bible and I won't again but since you wanted to act like your a holy man that's as unequivocal as I can be.

You worship man made rules like affirmative action, reparations, diversity training when you don't recognize one very simple human truth.

NO ONE OWES YOU OR ANYONE SH*T.

Everything worth anything in life is earned not given. Why is it fair that Eric Holder's justice dept. is mandating that cities lower the entrance exam scores to 63% in Dayton Ohio?

The Dayton, Ohio, Police Department is lowering its testing standards for recruits. It's a move required by the US Department of Justice after it says not enough African-Americans passed the exam.

Dayton is in desperate need of officers to replace dozens of retirees. The hiring process was postponed for months because the DoJ rejected the original scores provided by the Dayton Civil Service Board, which administers the test.

Under the previous requirements, candidates had to get a 66% on part one of the exam and a 72% on part two. The DoJ approved new scoring policy only requires potential police officers to get a 58% and a 63%. That's the equivalent of an ‘F' and a ‘D'.


Is that fair? Is that justice? You'd probably call that "social justice" yet even the NAACP doesn't agree with Holder.

"The NAACP does not support individuals failing a test and then having the opportunity to be gainfully employed," agreed Dayton NAACP President Derrick Foward.

And then the same Holder has the gall to say that the Black Panther case focus "demeans my people."

So let me get this straight, this man works for the American people, are the American people solely Black Panthers?

Holder violated his oath of office to apply the equal protection of laws. He should resign or if he refuses to do so, he should be removed.

Now when the ATTY General of the United States makes an ignorant racist statement like that and nothing happens, it speaks volumes of the content of his character and the character of the man who appointed him.

A brilliant man doesn't surround himself with racists and charlatans. Frauds like the racist Rev. Wright who has made a number of crude, profane, melodramatic, theatrical Southern-dialect-complete-with-bad-grammar, nutty, belligerent speeches that included wild accusations about racism in America, e.g., the U.S. government creating the AIDS virus to perpetrate genocide against blacks. The same Rev Wright who has a longtime friendship and affiliation with anti-semite and everyone's favorite racist who coined the phrase "white devil" Louis Calypso Farrakhan.

A brilliant man doesn't have ties to 60s radical and terrorist Bill Ayers. Now he's terrorizing universities with his warped world view.

No a corrupt, radical who is the archetype of a Manchurian candidate has that kind of baggage. Not a brilliant, benevolent figure.

But I guess it's hard to tell the difference when you carry the same type of baggage yourself.
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#798 » by mugzi » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:35 am

Oh this is sweeter than tasting the tears of an enemy. :lol:


Michigan Dems charged in fake tea party scandal
By Rachel Rose Hartman

Two Michigan Democrats were arraigned Wednesday on election corruption charges for allegedly propping up of fake tea party candidates in 2010, the Detroit News reports.
Former Democratic Party Chairman Michael McGuinness (right) and ex-operations director Jason Bauer have been charged with forgery, putting people up for office without their knowledge and other charges. The two party leaders allegedly conspired to field phony tea party candidates in an apparent bid to siphon off GOP votes and boost Democrats in two Michigan County Commission races and a state Senate race last year, according to the newspaper. Several of the charges are felonies, some of which carry penalties of up to 14 years in prison.

McGuinnes and Bauer resigned their positions in August. News reports indicate they have not commented on this week's charges. Last year, as tea party power grew across the country, tea partiers began accusing Democrats and others of using their party label to run fake candidates and skew elections. A lawsuit was filed in Florida last year where Democrats, including then-Rep. Alan Grayson, were accused of creating a Florida Tea Party.
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#799 » by yaboynyp » Mon May 16, 2011 2:35 am

mugzi wrote:
fullermd wrote: As for my narrow mind, I am almost certain that my eduacational/academic prowess will put you to shame.


If you're going to brag about your educational prowess, here's a little advice. Spell educational correctly.

:lol:

And speaking of educational prowess, I earned a Bachelors degree from UCLA in History working full time, supporting myself and paying for school. I have been self-employed, managed 15 man teams and currently own a business.


I'm sure your a pleasure to work for....
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Re: The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here.. 

Post#800 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon May 16, 2011 2:46 am

yaboynyp wrote:
mugzi wrote:
fullermd wrote: As for my narrow mind, I am almost certain that my eduacational/academic prowess will put you to shame.


If you're going to brag about your educational prowess, here's a little advice. Spell educational correctly.

:lol:

And speaking of educational prowess, I earned a Bachelors degree from UCLA in History working full time, supporting myself and paying for school. I have been self-employed, managed 15 man teams and currently own a business.


I'm sure your a pleasure to work for....



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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