OT: Morey doin work

[cgmw]

We did stockpile assets. What do you call Gallo, Chandler, Fields, Douglas, Moz, Anthony Randolph, and Felton?

I call them the well-intentioned, yet half-assed attempts to dig ourselves out of Scott Layden and Isiah Thomas.

You understand that we had to trade this year's pick in order to get rid of Jeffries who was signed because our delusional GM was trying to justify his "win-now" team led by Eddy Curry, who cost us even more picks, right? We've been digging ourselves out of that hole for over a decade.

The difference between Morey's Rockets and anything we've seen in NY since at least the Allan Houston signing is that he's working with a surplus while we're always working from a deficit. If Morey lands Dwight Howard, he won't have to give up any future first round picks because he's got 3 of them right here right now. That's real flexibility. Not this, oh-we-can't-include-this-year's-pick-because-we-already-sold-it, so-here-please-take-six-years-of-future-picks crap.

As a Knick fan, I have to apologize for being upset at how we've been mismanaged for a decade and a half? I don't think so. I'm happy we have Melo, but we've been shortchanged for years.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Well then your point is that Isaiah did a terrible job and dug us into a deep hole? I don't think anybody disagrees with that.

Also, it's highly unlikely that Houston will be able to put together a team that can compete now without giving up a lot of their flexibility. Even if they get Dwight, how are they going to get pieces to put around him? If their end result is Dwight-Dragic-Scola, that's hardly something to be proud of.

[Fat Kat]

Well then your point is that Isaiah did a terrible job and dug us into a deep hole? I don't think anybody disagrees with that.

Also, it's highly unlikely that Houston will be able to put together a team that can compete now without giving up a lot of their flexibility. Even if they get Dwight, how are they going to get pieces to put around him? If their end result is Dwight-Dragic-Scola, that's hardly something to be proud of.

Even if they get Dwight, he's not staying. Like I said, I'm enjoying the show.

[cgmw]

How does this guy not comprehend we just had flexibility and it netted us one player that Morey wanted.

If we didn't have the flexibility he's describing how did we end up with Chandler, Amar'e and Melo?

And explain to me how the team is suffering? These guys are here for next season and two years after that and that's it. We still have a 1st rounder in 2014.. we got the rights for Jeremy Lin for nothing a PLAYER MOREY HAD!!!! And didn't want. I don't see the suffering..

Wow. Ok.

First of all, we're stuck with Amar'e because no other team in the league will have him. That's just a sad fact. Secondly, we're about to be in litigation with the league because of how absolutely rail-thin our margins are under the salary cap. Third, we're forced to invent depth through some kind of MacGuyver like process of duct tape, chop sticks, and saw dust. And finally, we're about to enter a draft with no draft pick. And it's not the last time that'll happen.

The Knicks are not just completely capped out, but also lack the kind of real assets to make a significant move or add reliable depth. I'm not saying Walsh and Grunwald haven't been miracle workers with the moves they've made. But that doesn't change the fact New York hasn't had any kind of clean slate in well over two decades.

I've been on record on this board (ad nauseum) saying that Amar'e is a crap fit next to Melo. I'm still pissed off that things went so badly pre-2010 that Walsh was desperate enough to give Amar'e that ridiculous contract in the first place. Now we're paying for it.

Granted, the Tyson Chandler and Jeremy Lin signings were f*king brilliant. But they were brilliant precisely because they were made out of desperate necessity caused by -- ready for it? -- lack of flexibility.

Again, I think it's preposterous that I have to apologize for being upset at the past and -- yes -- present ramifications of decades of mismanagement.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

The Amare signing had nothing to do with lack of assets. It was just a bad decision. All the draft picks in the world doesn't immunize you from that.

[cgmw]

The Amare signing had nothing to do with lack of assets. It was just a bad decision. All the draft picks in the world doesn't immunize you from that.

Disagree.

If the Knicks had more assets, they would have been a more desirable destination. They also would have (theoretically) had more reason to just stand pat and play out another year while stockpiling resources for an in-season trade. But they didn't have the resources for a big trade, and no other 2010 free agents wanted to deal with our crappy roster and lack of picks... hence overpaying Amar'e. There's a reason we were desperate. Morey shouldn't be desperate this summer because he's got a crapload of assets to play his hand later if he wants. We didn't have that luxury. We had to make a move, and it cost us.

[ibraheim718]

How does this guy not comprehend we just had flexibility and it netted us one player that Morey wanted.

If we didn't have the flexibility he's describing how did we end up with Chandler, Amar'e and Melo?

And explain to me how the team is suffering? These guys are here for next season and two years after that and that's it. We still have a 1st rounder in 2014.. we got the rights for Jeremy Lin for nothing a PLAYER MOREY HAD!!!! And didn't want. I don't see the suffering..

Wow. Ok.

First of all, we're stuck with Amar'e because no other team in the league will have him. That's just a sad fact. Secondly, we're about to be in litigation with the league because of how absolutely rail-thin our margins are under the salary cap. Third, we're forced to invent depth through some kind of MacGuyver like process of duct tape, chop sticks, and saw dust. And finally, we're about to enter a draft with no draft pick. And it's not the last time that'll happen.

The Knicks are not just completely capped out, but also lack the kind of real assets to make a significant move or add reliable depth. I'm not saying Walsh and Grunwald haven't been miracle workers with the moves they've made. But that doesn't change the fact New York hasn't had any kind of clean slate in well over two decades.

I've been on record on this board (ad nauseum) saying that Amar'e is a crap fit next to Melo. I'm still pissed off that things went so badly pre-2010 that Walsh was desperate enough to give Amar'e that ridiculous contract in the first place. Now we're paying for it.

Granted, the Tyson Chandler and Jeremy Lin signings were f*king brilliant. But they were brilliant precisely because they were made out of desperate necessity caused by -- ready for it? -- lack of flexibility.

Again, I think it's preposterous that I have to apologize for being upset at the past and -- yes -- present ramifications of decades of mismanagement.

Oh dear lord... seriously?

Who cares if no other team wants Stat? Why not just let him regain his form again.. here? What's sad about it? So he's here for two seasons and then he's one of those "precious" expiring contracts... hardly suffering.

Highly doubt this litigation you speak of ever happens.

All of the good teams are duct taping together their rosters... but we're actually getting lucky in the process. We possess one of the most valuable ASSETS in the league for the foreseeable future.

We had a 1st rounder last year and it was a guy who showed he can play in the league. And we have a 1st round pick next year. nThe first rounder we traded this year is the one that got us over the hump for 2010 you know it gave us flexibility.

I'm just going to file you into the "never satisfied" category.

I'm just not seeing where the team isn't in the best shape it's been in in years.

[cgmw]

Fact: The team is in the best shape it's been in in years.
Fact: The team has suffered from cap hell for years and years and is still not as good as it could be because of it.

These are not mutually exclusive positions, Ibaheim. We're better than we've been since 1999, but we've been absolute crap, so that's not saying much.

[Capn'O]

Oh. I see. An opinion on Morey is actually an opinion on the Melo trade and Stat signings. As are all opinions on everything here.

Carry on.

[Phish Tank]

fact: morey's crazy moves, in the end, won't mean much cuz even having howard or deron will not get them far in the playoffs

[GONYK]

Oh. I see. An opinion on Morey is actually an opinion on the Melo trade and Stat signings. As are all opinions on everything here.

Carry on.

I think all that is being said is that you shouldn't be jealous of Morey and the Rockets, because Morey would kill to be in our position right now.

[Mr Rabbit]

In regard to the summer of 2010, if instead of Eddy Curry’s rotting corpse we had two or three other valuable assets to go along with Amare, Gallo, and Wilson Chandler perhaps Lebron make a different decision, but maybe not. I don’t think anyone is arguing that Layden and Isaiah didn’t hamstring the Knicks severely, but we did have a certain amount of flexibility after purging all of those contracts. We had a few nice young players and the cap room to offer two max contracts, plus the ability to be able to offer another max contract the offseason of 2011. Granted we didn’t have enough time to let those contracts expire without giving up draft picks and still make a run at Lebron, which would have been a much more desirable way to go about things, but it is what it is.

Houston is in a strange situation. They have been trying to make a major move for the last two seasons. Sooner or later, Morey is going to have to make a move. It’s not like he has a lifetime contract and if he misses on Howard and or DWill I have a feeling he may overpay for a marginal all-star type of player. Just my two cents.

[TKF]

We had to mortgage so much to get to the point where we had cap space for Amar'e that other (read: better) free agents wouldn't sign. Then, while still working from a deficit, we mortgaged even more to get Carmelo.

The Rockets have a clean slate, draft picks, and young assets like we haven't had since God knows when. For people asking "who would we get" I'm pretty sure the answer this year would be at least Deron Williams and Dwight Howard, probably. If we had it in 2010, I wouldn't be surprised if we got LeBron. If we had it in 2011, we could have traded for Carmelo and STILL had room to maneuver for somebody better than Amar'e to join him -- CP3 comes to mind.

I dont' understand anybody who bad mouths cap flexibility, young assets, and a ton of draft picks. Sorry, makes no sense to me. Knicks franchise would be way better off building this way even if it meant 5 years of mediocrity and playing 90s highlights on the jumbotron (oh wait, we've already had that for 13 years).

YEA, i AGREE, but you know the drill.. bad mouth the other team.. it will make you feel better about your situation.... go figure..

[Kampuchea]

Knicks are screwed. we dont have the assets to get a player like Carmelo Anthony. Houston, on the other hand, looks to be frontrunners for getting Melo via trade.

Thanks Donnie. Thanks for nothing

[magnumt]

Houston has the flexibility to sign multiple max players.

No they don't. They still have more maneuvering to do.

--Mags

[cgmw]

Knicks are screwed. we dont have the assets to get a player like Carmelo Anthony. Houston, on the other hand, looks to be frontrunners for getting Melo via trade.

Thanks Donnie. Thanks for nothing

And.... facepalm.

Ok, I give up. So do the Knicks have the assets to surround Carmelo with a championship team?

[Fat Kat]

Houston is in a strange situation. They have been trying to make a major move for the last two seasons. Sooner or later, Morey is going to have to make a move. It’s not like he has a lifetime contract and if he misses on Howard and or DWill I have a feeling he may overpay for a marginal all-star type of player. Just my two cents.

I'm predicting they get Josh Smith and another marginal player.

[TKF]

Fact: The team is in the best shape it's been in in years.
Fact: The team has suffered from cap hell for years and years and is still not as good as it could be because of it.

These are not mutually exclusive positions, Ibaheim. We're better than we've been since 1999, but we've been absolute crap, so that's not saying much.

I think people completely miss that point.. I hear it all of the time, but really what is that saying.. we have been horrible the past decade... we are now celebrating being better than we were the past decade,which I call the "lost decade" of knicks basketball...

[Fat Kat]

Knicks are screwed. we dont have the assets to get a player like Carmelo Anthony. Houston, on the other hand, looks to be frontrunners for getting Melo via trade.

Thanks Donnie. Thanks for nothing

Ok, I give up.

Thank God.

[cgmw]

Houston has the flexibility to sign multiple max players.

No they don't. They still have more maneuvering to do.

--Mags

Sorry. Trade for one, sign the other.