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Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG?

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Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#81 » by Scalabrine » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:36 pm

AllanH20 wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:George Hill would be the perfect point guard.

Dont think he is leaving Indy though.


Na, we have to rule him out because of the hair. Simply can't have that on the team.



I'm down to have an all crazy hair roster.

Have KP grow it out and corn row it again, then we have Lopez and his sideshow bob hair, Derrick Williams and his tarantula leg hair, George Hill pulling the sisco look off...then Afflalo with no hair...
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Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#82 » by blanko » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:59 pm

Jose has one of the worst drpm in the league


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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#83 » by Newyorknick94 » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:00 pm

It's time to call for our savior once again.
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Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#84 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:06 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
Gotcha. Problem with that is, teams gameplan specifially to exploit Jose, which isn't hard to do. That not only leaves the team in a hole early, it also helps the opposition's momentum.

Starting Calderon over Galloway is like spending more on your life vest than on your boat. When the crappy boat sinks, at least you'll have brand new shiny life vest.


But if you look at Jose's RPM ranking this year, it's not THAT bad. Look at all the guards who fall below him. Many of whom people here have wanted us to replace Jose with.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1


Never paid much attention to this stat. I'll take a look at it.



I never heard of it either until I was searching around on the internet for something to defend Jose with. :lol: But it's supposed to be the newest thang.
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Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#85 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:12 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
Gotcha. Problem with that is, teams gameplan specifially to exploit Jose, which isn't hard to do. That not only leaves the team in a hole early, it also helps the opposition's momentum.

Starting Calderon over Galloway is like spending more on your life vest than on your boat. When the crappy boat sinks, at least you'll have brand new shiny life vest.


But if you look at Jose's RPM ranking this year, it's not THAT bad. Look at all the guards who fall below him. Many of whom people here have wanted us to replace Jose with.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1


Never paid much attention to this stat. I'll take a look at it.



This is the article I found on it.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740818/introducing-real-plus-minus

The next big thing: real plus-minus (RPM)
Apr 16, 2014
Steve Ilardi
ESPN.com

Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau recently made the case for Taj Gibson as the NBA's Sixth Man of the Year. "I think that the biggest thing for him is what he has contributed to us winning," said Thibs. "The things that he does for us are all team-oriented. He plays great defense, challenges shots, guards everybody, runs the floor hard, sets great screens, does his job."

So Gibson helps his team win by doing all the little things that never show up in a box score. But how can we measure the value of running the floor hard, or making smart defensive rotations, or setting great screens?

And how can we tell if Gibson has been more valuable to his team than, let's say, Clippers sixth man Jamal Crawford, who has scored more points than Gibson (18.6 versus 13.2 PPG) on a higher true shooting percentage (55.7 versus 52.8) while logging heavier minutes (30.3 versus 28.8 MPG) for a better team in a tougher conference?

Today we're introducing an advanced metric that can help us out: real plus-minus (RPM).

What is real plus-minus?

As the name suggests, real plus-minus shares a family resemblance with the +/- stat in the box score, which merely registers the net change in score (plus or minus) while each player is on the court.

RPM is inspired by the same underlying +/- logic: If a team outscores its opponents when a player is on the court, he's probably doing something to help his team, whether or not he's putting up big numbers.

But the familiar +/- stat has a serious flaw: Each player's rating is heavily influenced by the play of his on-court teammates.

For example, in the basic +/- numbers, Thunder backup point guard Reggie Jackson is ranked 27th in the league. But he's also spent the majority of his minutes playing alongside Kevin Durant, the league's likely MVP. What we really want to know is how much of Jackson's elite rating is attributable to his own play, and basic +/- simply can't tell us.

But real plus-minus can.

Where does real plus-minus come from?

Drawing on advanced statistical modeling techniques (and the analytical wizardry of RPM developer Jeremias Engelmann, formerly of the Phoenix Suns), the metric isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate and opposing player.

The RPM model sifts through more than 230,000 possessions each NBA season to tease apart the "real" plus-minus effects attributable to each player, employing techniques similar to those used by scientific researchers when they need to model the effects of numerous variables at the same time.

RPM estimates how many points each player adds or subtracts, on average, to his team's net scoring margin for each 100 possessions played. The RPM model also yields separate ratings for the player's impact on both ends of the court: offensive RPM (ORPM) and defensive RPM (DRPM).

-more-

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Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#86 » by DeanTheDream » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:17 pm

I believe that we have to use some stopgap for now and next year because Calderon stunts our growth as a unit. I think that Westbrook vaults us into instant title contender status - he is the one, the key - more important than any player we could have signed this year like Aldridge...which is why Durant leaving Okla could be so critical. So I am a no on Conley for that simple reason of Westbrook's impact. I don't see Curry leaving
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Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#87 » by thekiller99 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:53 am

Honest question guys!
Lin has player options next season.
What are your thoughts on Lin?
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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#88 » by WhyISO » Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:54 pm

Time to bring Linsanity home.
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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#89 » by earthmansurfer » Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:33 pm

wang000hk wrote:While he isn't perfect,we should have kept Shved


Shved was damn near perfect for this system. But I'm glad we went with Seraphin over him. He really helps to make sure the right bench and the left bench have an equal amount of people on it. You know, I've seen a bench lift up in the air, dangerously so, when only two people were on it and the one from one end got up and the guy at the other end was too close to the end and fulcrumed it up. Just a dangerous situation.
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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#90 » by KikupKnik » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:32 pm

With so many good guards in the league today, we end up without one, as usual.Now it's dangerous to just pick up anybody cause teams can fleece in trades cause where obviously desperate for one.
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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#91 » by Fat Kat » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:34 pm

Newyorknick94 wrote:It's time to call for our savior once again.
Baron Davids where you at?


Better than Jose.
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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#92 » by Knicksfan1992 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:38 pm

I just don't see how we can upgrade the PG spot without losing something very valuable. We need. DWill or else we won't be able to score off of the bench. Without LG we'll have to see more of grant or vujacic who quite frankly have been horror shows. And if we lose any of the starters there is going to be a steep decline from them to their replacements on the bench. Unless somebody really wants Kyle Oquinn we're stuck with Jose.
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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#93 » by DeanTheDream » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:39 pm

NY2TheBay wrote:obligatory


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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#94 » by Thugger HBC » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:53 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:I just don't see how we can upgrade the PG spot without losing something very valuable. We need. DWill or else we won't be able to score off of the bench. Without LG we'll have to see more of grant or vujacic who quite frankly have been horror shows. And if we lose any of the starters there is going to be a steep decline from them to their replacements on the bench. Unless somebody really wants Kyle Oquinn we're stuck with Jose.

Depends on the upgrade. If we're upgrading the bench backcourt, not talking about a Wroten signing :lol: but rather an actual known quality backup, then I can see the team parting with some things.

Now if we're talking starter quality that does things a pg should on the regular, outside of Kris6 & Melo, any player should be openly available.
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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#95 » by reub » Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:26 pm

It's too late in the season to change the PG with a major trade. It would upset our whole system. Pick up a young guy like Wroten or Jimmer or Erick Green or even Trice and slowly work him in. If it doesn't work out then just say goodbye and try again.
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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#96 » by blanko » Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:53 pm

Are we giving up on grant? We should play the young kid more


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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#97 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:05 pm

Mecca wrote:It's become quite evident that this team's potential is crippled due to the fact that we have extremely weak point guard play. Jose Calderon, while anchoring the triangle system efficiently is 35 years old and simply can no longer defend at the NBA level against starting point guards. This is a young mans game, and Calderon's lack of athleticism is apparent.

I completely understand that this topic is beat to death, but it will only continue to hamper our future until we take care of this issue. We did't expect for KP, Lance Thomas or Derrick Williams to be this good. Afflalo has taken the role of a mini-Kobe, and Robin has been coming on as of late. This team can seriously compete for an ECF appearance with fresh legs at Point Guard.



The over the top criticism of Jose's play ones this board is simply wrong. Jose's play is not nearly as bad as those here - like yourself - make it out to be. According to this years "Real Plus/Minus" rankings amongst Point Guards this year, Jose ranks 20th, ahead of guards like Jeff Teague, Jrue Holiday, Goran Dragic, Kyrie Irving and Rajon Rondo. Here are the rankings:

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1

Also, if you look at Jose's defensive RPM (DRPM), it's not THAT bad. For example, it's better than Mike Conley's, Damian Lillard's, Reggie Jackson's, Jrue Holiday's, Ramon Session's, Jeff Teague's, Kyrie Irving's, Brandon' Knight's and others.

For those who want to read up on RPM:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740818/introducing-real-plus-minus

So, in the words of the immortal Wilson Pickett ..

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t82Glf_9W48[/youtube]
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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#98 » by Fat Kat » Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:07 pm

blanko wrote:Are we giving up on grant? We should play the young kid more


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Management isn't, but impatient fans might be. I'd send him to the Dleague to start full time and call up a guy for a 10-day.
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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#99 » by AmazingJason » Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:11 pm

blanko wrote:Are we giving up on grant? We should play the young kid more


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I really wish Payne fell to the Knicks. He's so much better than Grant. If we had him, we'd be looking at him close to how we see KP...our savior.
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Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#100 » by AmazingJason » Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:14 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
blanko wrote:Are we giving up on grant? We should play the young kid more


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Management isn't, but impatient fans might be. I'd send him to the Dleague to start full time and call up a guy for a 10-day.


In the D-League, he's going to see what Jimmer can do, and wonder why AA and Sasha toss up bricks :lol:
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