Should the Knicks tank in the '16-'17 season?

[Americafkya]

Let's address the elephant in the room. The pelicans won 34 games in Anthony Davis second season, Jrue Holiday missed 48 games. If Porzingis makes the the same leap in his 2nd year than the tank will be an unmitigated failure. The time to tank was this year if you wanted another future all-star. it's too late to tank, Porzinigs will ruin the tank, he can be that good.

I love KP, but I highly doubt he will be anywhere near the offensive/defensive impact of Anthony Davis in that year when next season rolls around.

If we do tank, that means trading Melo and Lopez. We would deal those guys for draft picks, and have nothing much left on the roster at all.

Aside from Davis, that team still had Ryan Anderson, Tyreke Evans, Eric Gordon, and still managed to hold oppenents to 102 ppg.

If we deal our vets, there won't be a single player on the roster the level of any 3 of these guys aside from KP.

Replacement-level pg + Holiday for 34 games
Gordon
Evans
Anderson
Davis

is a playoff contender if healthy. The Knicks would field nothing remotely close if we went into the tank unless we pull a miracle player for Melo, which certainly won't happen. Even if KP took a solid jump next season, started averaging 18/8, played good defense and blocked a lot of shots(which is most likely the year he is going to have), then a team with him as the best player and lots of young guys would win 28 games maximum.

Thing is, I have nothing against winning 28 games if it means we are on the way up, get a high draft pick, preserve cap space for good trades or big fa's when we are on the cusp, and are growing a team with a high ceiling.

What I have a problem with is overpaying decent players for the hopes of maxing out as the 3-4th seed in the East. If we pull a serious haul next year, then we could easily make the playoffs, and if we get a nice player in 2017, I could really see us making noise...but is there any situation where you see the Knicks being a legit threat to Cleveland any time soon? Or better yet, do you see the Knicks being any threat to the West's 3 best teams? Not me.

Say we land Rondo/Bazemore next season. That's a great haul. We'd have Rondo/Baze/Melo/Kp/Lopez + Grant/Gallo/Dwill/Quinn bringing up the bench. We could legit be a good playoff seed depending on FA signings. But are we a top 5 team in the league...nah.

We will have a gigantic payroll, long-term money and no flexibility in the hopes of making the 2nd round or maybe, if god shines upon us, the honour of a 6 game loss to Cleveland in the East. IDK. It just doesn't sit well with me.

How is that not a top 5 team in the East? That type of team is a dream, especially with the cap going up and being able to get another player next year. Plus Willie and hopefully a healthy Wrotten. Atlanta is depleting and Cleveland may lose Love or Irving, this lineup would be one of the top defensive lineups in the league and you wouldn't want it? I'd take that over tanking in a second!

I said top 5 in the league. Top 5 in the East for sure.

I don't think we'd be one of the elite contenders with those players. We'd have to really move the ball well, play as a team, and play gritty defense to have any chance of making a deep run into the playoffs. Even with a solid lineup like that, we'd have some serious questions.

Could we shoot 3's consistently? KP and Melo have nice shots, but they've been inconsistent from 3. Rondo has improved but still isn't a world beater from there, and Lopez is obviously not shooting any.

Also, our bench would still struggle to score unless we had some sort of staggered set with KP staying on the floor.

I see Cleveland only getting better next season to be honest. Extra cap space, a better evaluation of Love/Irving, possible trades, etc. Some teams will prob get better in FA as well. But I could easily see us being a top East team next season. By top I mean a home court seed, but I don't see us being a team that has any hope of contention in the next 2 seasons.

[Americafkya]

No way are we top 5 just by adding Bazemore and Rondo. That's a 35 to 37 win team, and probably picking after 10 in the draft.

Nightmare scenario.

How are we a 35 win team next season with those additions? I can't see any justification for that.

this season we won 32 games with the worst back court in the history of the league, no defense, and injuries to many of our major players.

Melo missed 9 games. Thomas missed a ton. KP missed 10. AA missed a bunch.

We still won 32. With better health, we would have won closer to 36, especially since we dropped games to bad teams without Melo. So adding two average/above average guards wouldn't improve us? They'd improve the defense substantially, be able to attack off the dribble and score a bit. Compare their production from this year to that of Jose and Sasha and tell me how we don't get better.

Now add that we could have improvement from KP and Grant plus Wroten and Gomez. Not gonna be the best team around but certainly gonna be better.

[Sark]

No way are we top 5 just by adding Bazemore and Rondo. That's a 35 to 37 win team, and probably picking after 10 in the draft.

Nightmare scenario.

How are we a 35 win team next season with those additions? I can't see any justification for that.

this season we won 32 games with the worst back court in the history of the league, no defense, and injuries to many of our major players.

Melo missed 9 games. Thomas missed a ton. KP missed 10. AA missed a bunch.

We still won 32. With better health, we would have won closer to 36, especially since we dropped games to bad teams without Melo. So adding two average/above average guards wouldn't improve us? They'd improve the defense substantially, be able to attack off the dribble and score a bit. Compare their production from this year to that of Jose and Sasha and tell me how we don't get better.

Now add that we could have improvement from KP and Grant plus Wroten and Gomez. Not gonna be the best team around but certainly gonna be better.

So no one else improves except us? We finished 13th in the Conference. Sorry but Rondo/Bazemore is not jumping us 8 spots.

[Americafkya]

No way are we top 5 just by adding Bazemore and Rondo. That's a 35 to 37 win team, and probably picking after 10 in the draft.

Nightmare scenario.

How are we a 35 win team next season with those additions? I can't see any justification for that.

this season we won 32 games with the worst back court in the history of the league, no defense, and injuries to many of our major players.

Melo missed 9 games. Thomas missed a ton. KP missed 10. AA missed a bunch.

We still won 32. With better health, we would have won closer to 36, especially since we dropped games to bad teams without Melo. So adding two average/above average guards wouldn't improve us? They'd improve the defense substantially, be able to attack off the dribble and score a bit. Compare their production from this year to that of Jose and Sasha and tell me how we don't get better.

Now add that we could have improvement from KP and Grant plus Wroten and Gomez. Not gonna be the best team around but certainly gonna be better.

So no one else improves except us? We finished 13th in the Conference. Sorry but Rondo/Bazemore is not jumping us 8 spots.

I doubt that the rest of the conference improves so significantly that adding two quality guards to a team that was pretty good outside of its guard play would amount to a lateral move.

we won 32 games with Melo missing 9 games and KP missing 10. We lost nearly 20 games with really close scores. This team easily could have been 37 wins with better health and better execution.

You are insinuating that adding a good point guard and good 3/d shooting guard, our biggest weaknesses, would not improve the team at all.

It doesn't make sense.

[Sark]

How are we a 35 win team next season with those additions? I can't see any justification for that.

this season we won 32 games with the worst back court in the history of the league, no defense, and injuries to many of our major players.

Melo missed 9 games. Thomas missed a ton. KP missed 10. AA missed a bunch.

We still won 32. With better health, we would have won closer to 36, especially since we dropped games to bad teams without Melo. So adding two average/above average guards wouldn't improve us? They'd improve the defense substantially, be able to attack off the dribble and score a bit. Compare their production from this year to that of Jose and Sasha and tell me how we don't get better.

Now add that we could have improvement from KP and Grant plus Wroten and Gomez. Not gonna be the best team around but certainly gonna be better.

So no one else improves except us? We finished 13th in the Conference. Sorry but Rondo/Bazemore is not jumping us 8 spots.

I doubt that the rest of the conference improves so significantly that adding two quality guards to a team that was pretty good outside of its guard play would amount to a lateral move.

we won 32 games with Melo missing 9 games and KP missing 10. We lost nearly 20 games with really close scores. This team easily could have been 37 wins with better health and better execution.

You are insinuating that adding a good point guard and good 3/d shooting guard, our biggest weaknesses, would not improve the team at all.

It doesn't make sense.

I'm insinuating that Bazemore and Rondo aren't really that good. They had PERs of 13.4 and 16.9 respectively. While it's better than what we have, it's not earth shattering to the point that we become a top team. On top of that, Rondo is getting older and declining, and Bazemore really isn't that great offensively. He shoots 35.7% on 3s, which is decent but not outstanding, and he is not a great passer. You're left with the same situation as had this year: Melo and KP are the only legit scoring options, and Bazemore will have a good game every once in a while.

The fact is we're further away from contending than you realize. Not only do we need a better bench, which was putrid, but we need another superstar type of player. Melo is regressing and will regress more next year, and KP probably is not ready to make that jump.

[DaGawd]

So no one else improves except us? We finished 13th in the Conference. Sorry but Rondo/Bazemore is not jumping us 8 spots.

I doubt that the rest of the conference improves so significantly that adding two quality guards to a team that was pretty good outside of its guard play would amount to a lateral move.

we won 32 games with Melo missing 9 games and KP missing 10. We lost nearly 20 games with really close scores. This team easily could have been 37 wins with better health and better execution.

You are insinuating that adding a good point guard and good 3/d shooting guard, our biggest weaknesses, would not improve the team at all.

It doesn't make sense.

I'm insinuating that Bazemore and Rondo aren't really that good. They had PERs of 13.4 and 16.9 respectively. While it's better than what we have, it's not earth shattering to the point that we become a top team. On top of that, Rondo is getting older and declining, and Bazemore really isn't that great offensively. He shoots 35.7% on 3s, which is decent but not outstanding, and he is not a great passer. You're left with the same situation as had this year: Melo and KP are the only legit scoring options, and Bazemore will have a good game every once in a while.

The fact is we're further away from contending than you realize. Not only do we need a better bench, which was putrid, but we need another superstar type of player. Melo is regressing and will regress more next year, and KP probably is not ready to make that jump.

This. The Knicks are not that close to being a legit contender by any stretch.. Some fans need to let that sink in and marinate! Adding Rondo and Bazemore adds maybe 5-10 more wins are most which means going off this year's standings we jump from 13th seed to maybe 9th or just barely making the 8th seed... which just ain't worth it.

[AmazingJason]

So no one else improves except us? We finished 13th in the Conference. Sorry but Rondo/Bazemore is not jumping us 8 spots.

I doubt that the rest of the conference improves so significantly that adding two quality guards to a team that was pretty good outside of its guard play would amount to a lateral move.

we won 32 games with Melo missing 9 games and KP missing 10. We lost nearly 20 games with really close scores. This team easily could have been 37 wins with better health and better execution.

You are insinuating that adding a good point guard and good 3/d shooting guard, our biggest weaknesses, would not improve the team at all.

It doesn't make sense.

I'm insinuating that Bazemore and Rondo aren't really that good. They had PERs of 13.4 and 16.9 respectively. While it's better than what we have, it's not earth shattering to the point that we become a top team. On top of that, Rondo is getting older and declining, and Bazemore really isn't that great offensively. He shoots 35.7% on 3s, which is decent but not outstanding, and he is not a great passer. You're left with the same situation as had this year: Melo and KP are the only legit scoring options, and Bazemore will have a good game every once in a while.

The fact is we're further away from contending than you realize. Not only do we need a better bench, which was putrid, but we need another superstar type of player. Melo is regressing and will regress more next year, and KP probably is not ready to make that jump.

Rondo doesn't even play defense anymore. He was the PG on a 33-win Kings team that has another great scorer (Cousins). He's not going to move the needle that much.

[malik959]

I love KP, but I highly doubt he will be anywhere near the offensive/defensive impact of Anthony Davis in that year when next season rolls around.

If we do tank, that means trading Melo and Lopez. We would deal those guys for draft picks, and have nothing much left on the roster at all.

Aside from Davis, that team still had Ryan Anderson, Tyreke Evans, Eric Gordon, and still managed to hold oppenents to 102 ppg.

If we deal our vets, there won't be a single player on the roster the level of any 3 of these guys aside from KP.

Replacement-level pg + Holiday for 34 games
Gordon
Evans
Anderson
Davis

is a playoff contender if healthy. The Knicks would field nothing remotely close if we went into the tank unless we pull a miracle player for Melo, which certainly won't happen. Even if KP took a solid jump next season, started averaging 18/8, played good defense and blocked a lot of shots(which is most likely the year he is going to have), then a team with him as the best player and lots of young guys would win 28 games maximum.

Thing is, I have nothing against winning 28 games if it means we are on the way up, get a high draft pick, preserve cap space for good trades or big fa's when we are on the cusp, and are growing a team with a high ceiling.

What I have a problem with is overpaying decent players for the hopes of maxing out as the 3-4th seed in the East. If we pull a serious haul next year, then we could easily make the playoffs, and if we get a nice player in 2017, I could really see us making noise...but is there any situation where you see the Knicks being a legit threat to Cleveland any time soon? Or better yet, do you see the Knicks being any threat to the West's 3 best teams? Not me.

Say we land Rondo/Bazemore next season. That's a great haul. We'd have Rondo/Baze/Melo/Kp/Lopez + Grant/Gallo/Dwill/Quinn bringing up the bench. We could legit be a good playoff seed depending on FA signings. But are we a top 5 team in the league...nah.

We will have a gigantic payroll, long-term money and no flexibility in the hopes of making the 2nd round or maybe, if god shines upon us, the honour of a 6 game loss to Cleveland in the East. IDK. It just doesn't sit well with me.

How is that not a top 5 team in the East? That type of team is a dream, especially with the cap going up and being able to get another player next year. Plus Willie and hopefully a healthy Wrotten. Atlanta is depleting and Cleveland may lose Love or Irving, this lineup would be one of the top defensive lineups in the league and you wouldn't want it? I'd take that over tanking in a second!

I said top 5 in the league. Top 5 in the East for sure.

I don't think we'd be one of the elite contenders with those players. We'd have to really move the ball well, play as a team, and play gritty defense to have any chance of making a deep run into the playoffs. Even with a solid lineup like that, we'd have some serious questions.

Could we shoot 3's consistently? KP and Melo have nice shots, but they've been inconsistent from 3. Rondo has improved but still isn't a world beater from there, and Lopez is obviously not shooting any.

Also, our bench would still struggle to score unless we had some sort of staggered set with KP staying on the floor.

I see Cleveland only getting better next season to be honest. Extra cap space, a better evaluation of Love/Irving, possible trades, etc. Some teams will prob get better in FA as well. But I could easily see us being a top East team next season. By top I mean a home court seed, but I don't see us being a team that has any hope of contention in the next 2 seasons.

My fault I read your comment wrong. This squad may not be a top 5 contender but it is a step in the right direction. Teams like The Hawks (losing Bazemore and Horford), and Chicago are going to drop. Well Chicago already started but the only team I can see getting better is Boston and NY in the East. Unless of course Durant goes to Washington.

Having a squad like this gives us a great push for FA that want to go to a contender in 2017. You were talking about bench scoring, well Williams has shown to be pretty effective lately, along with Wrotten (if he recovers well) and Grant that would be pretty solid for a year. Our rebuild started last year in which we are still in it, if we were able to pick up both Rondo and Bazemore than that's one hell of a defensive squad with Rolo, KP, and Baze. We would just need that one player to solidify a championship team.

[BernardKing]

When we strike out on Durant, we should sign only one year deals... Then if we're real lucky, Melo smells the tank coming and waives his NTC... Then we tank hard. Build long term around KP and a top 3 pick from what is supposedly going to be a historically great draft class. And oh yeah, keep Rambis on so the tank is done right this time. We got lucky last year when KP was available at #4, and that Phil had the guts to take a rail thin euro big, in the face of screaming crying Knicks "fans".

[X-Man Cometh]

We'll probably do it anyway, regardless if we want it or not.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

#TeamTank with a commanding 48-34 lead...a core of KP and Josh Jackson would be ridiculous

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrSeRwSbZfI[/youtube]

[dakomish23]

Roll that **** over if you don't land any big fish. Settling for mediocre FAs is the #1 sure fire way we will not build a contender. Take the pick and swing for the fences again in 2017 with the ability to bring in two studs. Melo won't like it, but it's his best way to a championship as well while in a NYK jersey

[malik959]

I'm up for 1 year deals if we can't get any big fish. Stephenson and Jennings.

[nytonm]

How are we gonna truly tank with Melo Lopez and KP? I'm sorry that's not bad enough. If I have to chose between watching a bad team that's not bad enough to get a high lottery pick and a good team that's not good enough to challenge for a title im gonna chose the latter. At least we'd get to watch some playoff games. If you want to tank you have do it right from the start (ie trading Melo instead of giving him a ntc) anything else is just sucking. "Tanking" now would entail kicking the can down the road for years while we wait for the next big name free agent to pass on joining a bad team and getting nothing but 7th to 10th picks to show for it.

[dakomish23]

I'm up for 1 year deals if we can't get any big fish. Stephenson and Jennings.

That's fine. But long term deals for mediocre role players will cripple this franchise for very short sighted gains. And it's no guarantee we even make the playoffs with those two or Jennings and Turner or whomever fits that criteria

[dakomish23]

How are we gonna truly tank with Melo Lopez and KP? I'm sorry that's not bad enough. If I have to chose between watching a bad team that's not bad enough to get a high lottery pick and a good team that's not good enough to challenge for a title im gonna chose the latter. At least we'd get to watch some playoff games. If you want to tank you have do it right from the start (ie trading Melo instead of giving him a ntc) anything else is just sucking. "Tanking" now would entail kicking the can down the road for years while we wait for the next big name free agent to pass on joining a bad team and getting nothing but 7th to 10th picks to show for it.

We very easily could of been in the 5th slot this year (29 wins).

It's gonna be painful. But I think one more year might be worth it for all parties.

[DaGawd]

How are we gonna truly tank with Melo Lopez and KP? I'm sorry that's not bad enough. If I have to chose between watching a bad team that's not bad enough to get a high lottery pick and a good team that's not good enough to challenge for a title im gonna chose the latter. At least we'd get to watch some playoff games. If you want to tank you have do it right from the start (ie trading Melo instead of giving him a ntc) anything else is just sucking. "Tanking" now would entail kicking the can down the road for years while we wait for the next big name free agent to pass on joining a bad team and getting nothing but 7th to 10th picks to show for it.

An off season of Lance Stevenson, Jennings, Turner type players on one year deals should have Melo waiving that NTC.. which would then clear the way for a tank. KP won't be good enough to will this team to 30 wins yet

[Americafkya]

I doubt that the rest of the conference improves so significantly that adding two quality guards to a team that was pretty good outside of its guard play would amount to a lateral move.

we won 32 games with Melo missing 9 games and KP missing 10. We lost nearly 20 games with really close scores. This team easily could have been 37 wins with better health and better execution.

You are insinuating that adding a good point guard and good 3/d shooting guard, our biggest weaknesses, would not improve the team at all.

It doesn't make sense.

I'm insinuating that Bazemore and Rondo aren't really that good. They had PERs of 13.4 and 16.9 respectively. While it's better than what we have, it's not earth shattering to the point that we become a top team. On top of that, Rondo is getting older and declining, and Bazemore really isn't that great offensively. He shoots 35.7% on 3s, which is decent but not outstanding, and he is not a great passer. You're left with the same situation as had this year: Melo and KP are the only legit scoring options, and Bazemore will have a good game every once in a while.

The fact is we're further away from contending than you realize. Not only do we need a better bench, which was putrid, but we need another superstar type of player. Melo is regressing and will regress more next year, and KP probably is not ready to make that jump.

This. The Knicks are not that close to being a legit contender by any stretch.. Some fans need to let that sink in and marinate! Adding Rondo and Bazemore adds maybe 5-10 more wins are most which means going off this year's standings we jump from 13th seed to maybe 9th or just barely making the 8th seed... which just ain't worth it.

I don't think it makes us a legit contender either. I don't think there is a single move this franchise can make that makes us a contender.

I just think adding Rondo and Bazemore is worth way more than 5 wins. This team easily could have won 36-37 this year with better health and no mental collapse. So adding two solid players at our weakest position would really help. Not to mention they'd help the defense so much more than Calderon and Vujacic. I could easily see 10 win improvement.

Just pointing out that 37 wins was not a realistic win total for that team.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

The lead for #TeamTank just continues to grow...somebody forward this page over to Phil. We're ready for a high lottery pick, we're ready for Josh Jackson

[nytonm]

How are we gonna truly tank with Melo Lopez and KP? I'm sorry that's not bad enough. If I have to chose between watching a bad team that's not bad enough to get a high lottery pick and a good team that's not good enough to challenge for a title im gonna chose the latter. At least we'd get to watch some playoff games. If you want to tank you have do it right from the start (ie trading Melo instead of giving him a ntc) anything else is just sucking. "Tanking" now would entail kicking the can down the road for years while we wait for the next big name free agent to pass on joining a bad team and getting nothing but 7th to 10th picks to show for it.

An off season of Lance Stevenson, Jennings, Turner type players on one year deals should have Melo waiving that NTC.. which would then clear the way for a tank. KP won't be good enough to will this team to 30 wins yet

You're assuming that Melo cares more about winning than he does about getting paid and living in NY. I wouldn't take that bet.