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OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series

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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#81 » by Fat Kat » Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:53 pm

Luv those Knicks wrote:
Knick4Real wrote:I just finished watching all 5 parts and so many thoughts are flooding through my head.

For CENTURIES, black men have been convicted of crimes they didn't commit, simply because (for example) a WHITE woman said he raped her, or a WHITE man said he stole from him. It didn't matter if it was true or not...if a WHITE person said it, that's all that mattered. It WAS true!

The O.J. trial and the verdict that followed was a manifestation of all those years blacks were falsely accused and lynched for having done nothing wrong. So at some point, the trial became less about O.J. and more of a referendum on years of bias against Black Americans. Blame the end result on a history of national racism and corrupt police departments that actively promoted it.

I won't get into if O.J. really did it or not, since everybody has their own opinions. However, just as White America cheered the day the cops who beat Rodney King were found not guilty, they found out how it felt to be on the opposite end of a court decision. Blacks cheered because they'd heard "GUILTY" for so long...even when the black man or woman wasn't guilty. For once, "NOT GUILTY" was a celebration.

Was O.J. the wrong person to be the face of this moment of black vindication? Perhaps. Is it sad that 2 people died brutally on the day Nicole and Ron were killed? Absolutely! However, after YEARS of being beat down physically, mentally and emotionally, did Black America need this brief moment of feeling as if THEY had finally won? You better believe it!


I'm white and old enough to remember all of this going down. I don't remember any white people cheering. Cops may have cheered, white people in society didn't at least, not any I knew.

Many white people, me among them, feel relief the rare instances where cops are charged and I think they still get away with too much. Every case should be looked at individually, but generally speaking, cops get found not guilty much too often in my opinion. The Staten Island choking really stands out as just a terrible job by an asleep at the wheel grand jury. That was an absolute travesty that makes me mad every time I think about it. You don't have to be black to think that Daniel Pantaleo belongs in a jail cell. I think he belongs in a jail cell.

But other than the hilighted part, I agree with what you wrote.

I posted a few pages back that I thought the OJ trial was good for the country (which I think one or two people disagreed with). It's a tragedy for the victims and their families, obviously, and the trial was a joke, but it was also good that cops went on trial for questionable work. That part was a good thing.

I still think Johnnie Cochran's a scumbag for the Hitler thing, and one lesson of the trial that's not been given enough attention is that rich people with good lawyers can do terrible things and get away with it. But I still think overall the trial was good for the country because it did bring some things to the surface.


I was in my twenties when the Rodney King verdict went down, and there was plenty of cheering. Plenty of cheering after the Zimmerman verdict too. To say there was no cheering probably means you weren't paying attention.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#82 » by Luv those Knicks » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:09 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
I was in my twenties when the Rodney King verdict went down, and there was plenty of cheering. Plenty of cheering after the Zimmerman verdict too. To say there was no cheering probably means you weren't paying attention.


I'm by no means an expert on this, nor is my memory perfect. I also lived in NY at the time, didn't know anyone from LA, but I knew absolutely nobody who cheered for the cops when they got off during the Rodney King trial.

Zimmerman, to me, and today with the internet, everything is different. Everyone has opinions and those opinions are expressed. There was a very strong outcry against Zimmerman and a significant (but less numerous) response in defense of him. We never had that situation with Rodney King. There were no blogs and no message boards, no long arguments where people vented at each other. If the Rodney King trial was today and there were threads on it on current affairs board, I might have a very different opinion, I only know what I remember, not being a local.

So, you may well be right. I'm sure fellow cops (and cops families) presumably were cheering for the cops on that trial. I can only say that I don't remember large crowds cheering for and defending the LA cops, not like there were in the more recent, Zimmerman or Darren Wilson or Peter Liang, situations. In Zimmerman's and Wilson's case, strangers sending them money for their defense funds.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#83 » by Greenie » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:33 pm

May I ask a question? Why were people upset at Johnny?
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#84 » by delvec19 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:47 pm

Greenie wrote:May I ask a question? Why were people upset at Johnny?


Because of his closing statements? The Fuhrman comparison to Hitler was pretty harsh.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#85 » by delvec19 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:59 pm

The best part was the Vegas judge sentencing him to 33 years. Symbolizing the 33 million he owed. And exactly 13 years to the day he was acquitted of the murders.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#86 » by Greenie » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:00 pm

delvec19 wrote:
Greenie wrote:May I ask a question? Why were people upset at Johnny?


Because of his closing statements? The Fuhrman comparison to Hitler was pretty harsh.

It was supposed to be.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#87 » by Knick4Real » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:15 pm

delvec19 wrote:
Greenie wrote:May I ask a question? Why were people upset at Johnny?


Because of his closing statements? The Fuhrman comparison to Hitler was pretty harsh.


LOL Fuhrman called black people the "N" word DOZENS of times, yet the only thing people remembered and took issue with was Cochran comparing him to Hitler ONCE??? :crazy: :banghead: :noway:
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#88 » by Knick4Real » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:17 pm

Luv those Knicks wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
I was in my twenties when the Rodney King verdict went down, and there was plenty of cheering. Plenty of cheering after the Zimmerman verdict too. To say there was no cheering probably means you weren't paying attention.


I'm by no means an expert on this, nor is my memory perfect. I also lived in NY at the time, didn't know anyone from LA, but I knew absolutely nobody who cheered for the cops when they got off during the Rodney King trial.

Zimmerman, to me, and today with the internet, everything is different. Everyone has opinions and those opinions are expressed. There was a very strong outcry against Zimmerman and a significant (but less numerous) response in defense of him. We never had that situation with Rodney King. There were no blogs and no message boards, no long arguments where people vented at each other. If the Rodney King trial was today and there were threads on it on current affairs board, I might have a very different opinion, I only know what I remember, not being a local.

So, you may well be right. I'm sure fellow cops (and cops families) presumably were cheering for the cops on that trial. I can only say that I don't remember large crowds cheering for and defending the LA cops, not like there were in the more recent, Zimmerman or Darren Wilson or Peter Liang, situations. In Zimmerman's and Wilson's case, strangers sending them money for their defense funds.


I was actually with my family visiting LA at the time of the verdict. Believe me, they cheered. I saw them!
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#89 » by Luv those Knicks » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:41 pm

Knick4Real wrote:
delvec19 wrote:
Greenie wrote:May I ask a question? Why were people upset at Johnny?


Because of his closing statements? The Fuhrman comparison to Hitler was pretty harsh.


LOL Fuhrman called black people the "N" word DOZENS of times, yet the only thing people remembered and took issue with was Cochran comparing him to Hitler ONCE??? :crazy: :banghead: :noway:


Furman was a jerk and Cochran was a jerk.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#90 » by Fat Kat » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:49 pm

delvec19 wrote:
Greenie wrote:May I ask a question? Why were people upset at Johnny?


Because of his closing statements? The Fuhrman comparison to Hitler was pretty harsh.


"If I had my way I'd gather, all the n*****s would be gathered together and burned.
"

"The only good n***** is a dead n*****."


Very Hitler like in my opinion.

It's telling how folks focus on Johnny Cochran and not Fuhrman and the systemic police brutality.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#91 » by Luv those Knicks » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:49 pm

Knick4Real wrote:
I was actually with my family visiting LA at the time of the verdict. Believe me, they cheered. I saw them!


I didn't have a birds eye view, but nobody in NY cheered when they got off, at least, nobody that I saw or knew.

anyway, I wanted to expand on this, if I got that wrong, my apologies. I was taken a back by a comment a while earlier, something about white's cheering when the cops got off, cause I didn't see that happen at all. I saw every white person I knew thinking the cops should have been charged, though, granted, I tended to hang around more of an anti-Reagan, anti-conservative crowd.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#92 » by delvec19 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:43 pm

Yeah except Fuhrman didn't kill anyone and Hitler killed oh about 11 million people.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#93 » by Fat Kat » Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:04 pm

Greenie wrote:May I ask a question? Why were people upset at Johnny?


It's a way for some folks to obfuscate their real sentiment about race with specious arguments.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#94 » by Greenie » Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:42 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
delvec19 wrote:
Greenie wrote:May I ask a question? Why were people upset at Johnny?


Because of his closing statements? The Fuhrman comparison to Hitler was pretty harsh.


"If I had my way I'd gather, all the n*****s would be gathered together and burned.
"

"The only good n***** is a dead n*****."


Very Hitler like in my opinion.

It's telling how folks focus on Johnny Cochran and not Fuhrman and the systemic police brutality.

!!!!
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#95 » by Greenie » Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:46 pm

delvec19 wrote:Yeah except Fuhrman didn't kill anyone and Hitler killed oh about 11 million people.

Step back for a second and think about the history of this country and what Fuhrman embodies. Now read what you just typed.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#96 » by delvec19 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:54 pm

Greenie wrote:
delvec19 wrote:Yeah except Fuhrman didn't kill anyone and Hitler killed oh about 11 million people.

Step back for a second and think about the history of this country and what Fuhrman embodies. Now read what you just typed.


Saying something and actually doing something are two COMPLETELY different things. He's a ****ing moronic cop who probably barely graduated high school.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#97 » by Sedale Threatt » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:57 pm

Luv those Knicks wrote:I still think Johnnie Cochran's a scumbag for the Hitler thing, and one lesson of the trial that's not been given enough attention is that rich people with good lawyers can do terrible things and get away with it. But I still think overall the trial was good for the country because it did bring some things to the surface.


Not only that, but he basically outright said, It's time for you to pick a side. I guess you can't blame a defense lawyer for doing anything he possibly can to get his client off. But what a repugnant, unethical thing to say.

I think Johnnie's a great lawyer who did a lot of positive things over his career, but I lost a lot of respect for him after hearing that.

At any rate, I thought the most telling comment of the whole documentary was from one of the preachers near the end. That wasn't a victory for the black community. It was just a rich dude named OJ who used his money to beat the system.

If we'd seen a positive shift in the system or attitudes after that trial, I'd agree with you. But it doesn't seem like much of anything has changed in terms of systemic racism in America -- the predatory court system in Ferguson is just one of about 10,000 examples you can come up with -- so I fail to see anything positive that came from it.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#98 » by Sedale Threatt » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:22 pm

Greenie wrote:May I ask a question? Why were people upset at Johnny?


The Hitler comment was way less inflammatory to me than him flat-out telling the jury to pick a side.

Yeah, the LAPD is completely f'd up. Yeah, black Angelinos were absolutely justified to have pent-up rage toward the system. Black Americans in general. And it seems like it's gotten even worse, given that now you can hardly even get a trial in instances of police criminality. What happened to that poor Rice kid in Cleveland is about 1,000 times worse than what happened to King, and that was bad enough. And Zimmerman...what an utter scumbag. Unfortunately, you can go on and on. Our track record on race relations as a country is truly shameful.

But to cynically ply on that legitimate rage in order to get your client off for the brutal murder of two people, including the mother of his children...I can't really come up with a better way to put it than, two wrongs don't justify a right. The fact that "I'm Not Black, I'm OJ" Simpson was the ultimate Uncle Tom, a total sell-out who did everything he could to distance himself from his roots, benefited from this just made the whole situation even more perverse. (That this doc aired on the heels of the death of Muhammad Ali, a true American hero, only underscores Simpson's lack of character even further.)

I guess you can say all that obfuscation and feinting and flagrant race baiting was just lawyers doing what they were allowed to do within the system. There's probably a lot of truth to that. Like Clark said, she doesn't blame the defense for doing what it had to do as much as she does Ito, who had almost no control over the case.

Case example is what they did to Simpson's friend Shipp, who I had a lot of respect for breaking ranks and telling the truth. Him having a drinking problem and being unfaithful to his wife had absolutely nothing to do with anything he said in regards to Simpson's waffling about the cut on his finger, or saying that he'd dreamed about murdering his wife. Why was that even allowed?

Then to sum up your entire case not by presenting facts, or providing an alibi, but by basically saying, he's black, you're black, the LAPD has been screwing us over for years, it's time to pick a side. That's what it all boiled down to, and I'm sorry, no matter how many instances where that was legitimately the case, that's unethical at best, flat-out wrong and immoral at worst.
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#99 » by Greenie » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:51 pm

delvec19 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
delvec19 wrote:Yeah except Fuhrman didn't kill anyone and Hitler killed oh about 11 million people.

Step back for a second and think about the history of this country and what Fuhrman embodies. Now read what you just typed.


Saying something and actually doing something are two COMPLETELY different things. He's a ****ing moronic cop who probably barely graduated high school.

Did Hitlers actions not start as words?
That's what Johnny said too...
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Re: OT: OJ Simpson: Made in America 5 part series 

Post#100 » by Greenie » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:55 pm

Hey, I don't like OJ. Fuq his Uncle Tom ass. You NEVER forget where you came from.
I also don't think he did it.
At most, I think he hired someone to do it.

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