BaF Season Three: Offseason thread (Free Agency announcement- page 96)

[Context]

I don’t get the opposition. If you prefer free agency then go that way. For Trae if you’re unsure wait until the end of this year to see how he does and then drop a one or two year extension on him. It seems like a can’t miss for him. Guys that take longer to develop may not get extended IRL too, and real teams make that call.

Also - players that may need more developing can be taken later and will make far less. I drafted Okogie with a 2nd rounder last year, and he’s getting extended which will be $17. Later picks have time to develop due to lower cost.

I agree with him- 1 year is not enough time to make such a franchising decision on a lottery pick...a lot of these guys take 3 years to find themselves -much less a year...

I guess instead of evaluating how a player's NBA performance get reflected in sim and in relation how your team performs before investing in further you can blindly trust sim

I say compromise and make it two years instead of one Bish...just my thoughts

[bishnykfan]

You want the dude give Bagley 100+ a year before he even sees how NBA Bagley would be reflected in sim

This would be acceptable if ratings were updated through year according to real life, at least make it possible after second year so his first year in NBA would be in sim

Still dont see why anyone would waste high pick allocate salary to undeveloped needing time youth though since you wont be able to extend

I'm missing your argument completely tbh...the way the game has been for the first two years, there was no ability to keep a draft pick from UFA after four years. If you argue that the first year is a "wasted" year which others did as well because the sim doesn't hold rookies in high regard, then the extension proposal is only helping your ability to keep that draft pick to the point of paying off.

Why won't you be able to extend?

Well no one is gonna pay Cam Reddish 100+ second year of his contract so you wont extend and this becomes completely meaningless instead of inviting people to invest in such players

+1 year in 2023 for a 23 year old Cam Reddish not gonna make any difference lol

Cam Reddish is projected to go #8 in the draft on nbadraft.net.

#8 pick gets $33 a year. Max extension for the #8 pick would be $63...not $100+


You're arguing that the extensions are too high and hoffa is arguing that they are too low... I wrote this proposal two weeks ago and only smash brought up an alternative which I looked into and put my counterargument to which got no response. I will not be offended if anyone doesn't like this rule change and wants to vote no, but it is a little frustrating that after two weeks and many announcements stating that we would be voting on this soon, that now on the day it gets put up for a vote, that there are all these complaints.

[bishnykfan]

Do they get paid 10 million second year of their contracts since you are drafting them to keep them for years?

NBA salary cap 2018- $101,869,000
#5 pick in the draft rookie contract IRL 2018- $3,841,000

This is approximately 3.77% of the IRL cap.

BaF salary cap $1010
3.77% of $1010 = $39
Trae Young (#5 pick in draft) salary- $39/year (rounded up)

That is how salary draft spots were figured out. The salaries that you are paying are exactly what they IRL NBA teams are paying their draft picks proportional to our salary cap.

so bish- the cap hit for this years #1 draft pick is $67? just want to be clear

Yes

[Manhattan Project]

I vote yes, though I would argue that year two should be 30, year three 60, final year 90 instead of being flat throughout. Obviously I'm one of the few teams that this rule doesn't affect at all at the time being having built my team through the initial draft.

[bringbackhoffa]

Tbh its kinda funny that I would benefit the most from this proposal and am still against it. I am one of the few teams that has the capspace to capitalize on this

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[Smash3]

Sauces tell me BroLo and Jabari will be wearing Celtics jerseys this season

[bishnykfan]

You dont have to pay them 10 million if u dont want to. The only reason u would do that is to get them at a HUGE discount in years 5-7. There is no way some of these studs would sign for $10 mil in there extension years when they would probably get close to $20mil or more.

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Two things...there is a hard cap here which makes extending draft picks next to impossible under that model. Secondly, IRL, the player has to wait until his rookie contract is up in order to get that extension money. Here, they get a raise immediately. More money for the player sooner, a little less later. The team is buying out the first 1-3 years of their free agency by paying them up front immediately.

But for a late first or a second rounder why would the resign at such a meaningless amount, they would likely bet on themselves and go to free agency.

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True, IRL they probably would...we are playing a game with different set of rules. IRL teams wouldn't or couldn't do a lot of the things we can and can't do here.

If a team drafted very well, lets say Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, (or Embiid, Simmons, Fultz (if he turned into a stud), IRL those teams could conceivably keep those players past their rookie deals by going above the cap. There is restricted FA etc...

In our game as it is now, a team will be punished for drafting well. You have Bamba, Jackson and the #2 pick. If all three turn into studs, there will be no way for you to keep them all beyond the 4 years on their initial contracts. This idea was just a way to combat that. I understand it isn't perfect and a team that drafts a Draymond Green in the second round will get a bargain by extending him, but IMO, it is better to reward a team with that vision then punish him by not being able to keep that player.

[Manhattan Project]

At the end of the day people have to realize we've been winging this for the most part, no one exactly knew how this was going to play out after the initial draft. Bish has done an amazing job trying to lay out the fairest rules for everyone. BAT's are an easy operation that's fun for a few days, do people not realize we're about to complete YEAR TWO!!! of BAF.

Yes the SIM ratings can be weird, no 2K isn't the perfect answer to this. It's very simple, adapt to the BAF system instead of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Aside from a few outliers thus far, the sim has been pretty damn good with establish players. Yes a few players don't quite play like their real life counterparts, yes the sim hates young players but at the end of the day lets not overlook the job that Bish has done and has to put up with.

[bringbackhoffa]

Two things...there is a hard cap here which makes extending draft picks next to impossible under that model. Secondly, IRL, the player has to wait until his rookie contract is up in order to get that extension money. Here, they get a raise immediately. More money for the player sooner, a little less later. The team is buying out the first 1-3 years of their free agency by paying them up front immediately.

But for a late first or a second rounder why would the resign at such a meaningless amount, they would likely bet on themselves and go to free agency.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

True, IRL they probably would...we are playing a game with different set of rules. IRL teams wouldn't or couldn't do a lot of the things we can and can't do here.

If a team drafted very well, lets say Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, (or Embiid, Simmons, Fultz (if he turned into a stud), IRL those teams could conceivably keep those players past their rookie deals by going above the cap. There is restricted FA etc...

In our game as it is now, a team will be punished for drafting well. You have Bamba, Jackson and the #2 pick. If all three turn into studs, there will be no way for you to keep them all beyond the 4 years on their initial contracts. This idea was just a way to combat that. I understand it isn't perfect and a team that drafts a Draymond Green in the second round will get a bargain by extending him, but IMO, it is better to reward a team with that vision then punish him by not being able to keep that player.

Most late round picks that pan out will be luck, otherwise we would be real life scouts

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[bishnykfan]

I agree with him- 1 year is not enough time to make such a franchising decision on a lottery pick...a lot of these guys take 3 years to find themselves -much less a year...

I guess instead of evaluating how a player's NBA performance get reflected in sim and in relation how your team performs before investing in further you can blindly trust sim

I say compromise and make it two years instead of one Bish...just my thoughts

As it's written in the proposal, you can extend players after 1, 2 or 3 years. You can wait until the second year and still extend the player for an additional two years.

[bringbackhoffa]

Yea I agree with MP this is a huge undertaking by bish and impossible to make perfect. I still cant believe bish has the time for all of this..I can barely manage my own team

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[bishnykfan]

But for a late first or a second rounder why would the resign at such a meaningless amount, they would likely bet on themselves and go to free agency.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

True, IRL they probably would...we are playing a game with different set of rules. IRL teams wouldn't or couldn't do a lot of the things we can and can't do here.

If a team drafted very well, lets say Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, (or Embiid, Simmons, Fultz (if he turned into a stud), IRL those teams could conceivably keep those players past their rookie deals by going above the cap. There is restricted FA etc...

In our game as it is now, a team will be punished for drafting well. You have Bamba, Jackson and the #2 pick. If all three turn into studs, there will be no way for you to keep them all beyond the 4 years on their initial contracts. This idea was just a way to combat that. I understand it isn't perfect and a team that drafts a Draymond Green in the second round will get a bargain by extending him, but IMO, it is better to reward a team with that vision then punish him by not being able to keep that player.

Most late round picks that pan out will be luck, otherwise we would be real life scouts

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Well I like to reward luck too. Golden State would never have been able to keep Draymond past his initial 2-3 year deal if they were playing in our game.

[Smash3]

I'm missing your argument completely tbh...the way the game has been for the first two years, there was no ability to keep a draft pick from UFA after four years. If you argue that the first year is a "wasted" year which others did as well because the sim doesn't hold rookies in high regard, then the extension proposal is only helping your ability to keep that draft pick to the point of paying off.

Why won't you be able to extend?

Well no one is gonna pay Cam Reddish 100+ second year of his contract so you wont extend and this becomes completely meaningless instead of inviting people to invest in such players

+1 year in 2023 for a 23 year old Cam Reddish not gonna make any difference lol

Cam Reddish is projected to go #8 in the draft on nbadraft.net.

#8 pick gets $33 a year. Max extension for the #8 pick would be $63...not $100+


You're arguing that the extensions are too high and hoffa is arguing that they are too low... I wrote this proposal two weeks ago and only smash brought up an alternative which I looked into and put my counterargument to which got no response. I will not be offended if anyone doesn't like this rule change and wants to vote no, but it is a little frustrating that after two weeks and many announcements stating that we would be voting on this soon, that now on the day it gets put up for a vote, that there are all these complaints.

I must have missed your counterargument, but I came up with the alternative because I thought the salaries would be too low compared to market value for star players. If you guys thought it was unfair to the GM's who drafted well I was cool with that, but even with my alternative $300 is pretty cheap compared to what star players got in FA $400-515.

[bishnykfan]

Well no one is gonna pay Cam Reddish 100+ second year of his contract so you wont extend and this becomes completely meaningless instead of inviting people to invest in such players

+1 year in 2023 for a 23 year old Cam Reddish not gonna make any difference lol

Cam Reddish is projected to go #8 in the draft on nbadraft.net.

#8 pick gets $33 a year. Max extension for the #8 pick would be $63...not $100+


You're arguing that the extensions are too high and hoffa is arguing that they are too low... I wrote this proposal two weeks ago and only smash brought up an alternative which I looked into and put my counterargument to which got no response. I will not be offended if anyone doesn't like this rule change and wants to vote no, but it is a little frustrating that after two weeks and many announcements stating that we would be voting on this soon, that now on the day it gets put up for a vote, that there are all these complaints.

I must have missed your counterargument, but I came up with the alternative because I thought the salaries would be too low compared to market value for star players. If you guys thought it was unfair to the GM's who drafted well I was cool with that, but even with my alternative $300 is pretty cheap compared to what star players got in FA $400-515.

This was what I found when I looked into your proposal. I don't mind the clause for players that make an All-NBA team but I think just being an all-star and getting that type of max ($300) deal would be prohibitive to our game.

Elton Brand (#1)
Anthony Davis (#1)
Tim Duncan (#1)
Blake Griffin (#1)
Dwight Howard (#1)
Kyrie Irving (#1)
Allen Iverson (#1)
LeBron James (#1)
Kenyon Martin (#1)
Yao Ming (#1)
Derrick Rose (#1)
Ben Simmons (#1)
Karl-Anthony Towns (#1)
John Wall (#1)

Kevin Durant (#2)
Steve Francis (#2)
D'Angelo Russell (#2)

Carmelo Anthony (#3)
Baron Davis (#3)
Joel Embiid (#3)
James Harden (#3)
Al Horford (#3)

Chris Bosh (#4)
Chris Paul (#4)
Kristaps Porzingis (#4)
Russell Westbrook (#4)

Ray Allen (#5)
Vince Carter (#5)
Kevin Love (#5)
Dwayne Wade (#5)

Damian Lillard (#6)
Brandon Roy (#6)
Wally Szczerbiak (#6)

Andre Drummond (#9)
Shawn Marion (#9)
Tracy McGrady (#9)
Dirk Nowitzki (#9)
Amare Stoudemire (#9)

Paul George (#10)
Paul Pierce (#10)

Klay Thompson (#11)

Kobe Bryant (#13)

Peja Stojakovic (#14)

Giannis Antetokounmpo (#15)

Danny Granger (#17)
Roy Hibbert (#17)
Jrue Holiday (#17)

Jamaal Magloire (#19)

Rajon Rondo (#21)

Andrei Kirilenko (#24)

Josh Howard (#29)

Jimmy Butler (#30)

Gilbert Arenas (#31)

Draymond Green (#35)

Nikola Jokic (#41)

Michael Redd (#43)

Marc Gasol (#48)

Manu Ginobili (#57)


58 players since the year 2000 have made an all star team during the first four years of their career (rookie contracts). First off, 30 of those players were top 5 picks, 28 were picked after the top 5, including six second rounders. Making all of these players worth a $300 contract will be a detriment to good scouting and drafting. Secondly, 58 players in the last 20 or so years means about three players a draft would need to get these MAX contracts. It wouldn't be about good cap management at some point, it just would not be able to get done. It is different than IRL where Philly could resign Embiid and Simmons plus afford a Jimmy Butler or OKC could go over the cap to extend Durant, Harden and Westbrook if they chose. BaF could not have that with $300+ extensions and a hard cap. Teams would lose players that they draft and develop and it would devalue draft picks which defeats the purpose of the proposal. Finally, not everyone on this list would deserve a max deal...Wally Szczerbiak? Jamaal Magloire? How do you determine which all stars are worthy?

The idea is that teams can retain their draft picks longer while still paying the player. To offer a max extension to Zion, Indy would have to pay him $567 total more than he would get in just his rookie contract. The reward for paying that extra amount is that they keep his rights for an additional three years. It can still be a bit of a gamble and would take a lot of cap management in order to get it to work.

[Context]

LET ME BE CLEAR!
what you are doing BISH is UNBELIEVABLE. I ran two BAT's and that was a ton of work- I could only IMAGINE what your
workload is now...I have GREAT respect for you and what you are doing...With that said,
I think we just need to find a way to make things better (if we can) it's not that serious BISH- not sure if you're feeling under appreciated when guys are complaining...I just got back into this so I wont say much but my thoughts are for both sides to- just
take it one step at a time- one improvement at a time- but in the end - we'll get there

[bishnykfan]

LET ME BE CLEAR!
what you are doing BISH is UNBELIEVABLE. I ran two BAT's and that was a ton of work- I could only IMAGINE what your
workload is now...I have GREAT respect for you and what you are doing...With that said,
I think we just need to find a way to make things better (if we can) it's not that serious BISH- not sure if you're feeling under appreciated when guys are complaining...I just got back into this so I wont say much but my thoughts are for both sides to- just
take it one step at a time- one improvement at a time- but in the end - we'll get there

Not feeling under appreciated, just frustrated because this proposal has been out there for two weeks waiting for discussion. I agree with you though, one step at a time. For nearly two years people have been calling for ways to keep their draft picks longer and raising the value of the draft. This was my idea. It may not be perfect and it definitely isn't exactly like IRL NBA, because we can't do that. If it needs tweaking over time, I'd obviously be open to that.

[King of Canada]

True, IRL they probably would...we are playing a game with different set of rules. IRL teams wouldn't or couldn't do a lot of the things we can and can't do here.

If a team drafted very well, lets say Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, (or Embiid, Simmons, Fultz (if he turned into a stud), IRL those teams could conceivably keep those players past their rookie deals by going above the cap. There is restricted FA etc...

In our game as it is now, a team will be punished for drafting well. You have Bamba, Jackson and the #2 pick. If all three turn into studs, there will be no way for you to keep them all beyond the 4 years on their initial contracts. This idea was just a way to combat that. I understand it isn't perfect and a team that drafts a Draymond Green in the second round will get a bargain by extending him, but IMO, it is better to reward a team with that vision then punish him by not being able to keep that player.

Most late round picks that pan out will be luck, otherwise we would be real life scouts

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Well I like to reward luck too. Golden State would never have been able to keep Draymond past his initial 2-3 year deal if they were playing in our game.

Luck is part of it for sure. I had a handful of 2nds last year, picked the guys I wanted and had scouted. Of the three one has planned out, one did not, and the other is up in the air (but I feel good about). The later picks are the funnest part for me.

[Context]

Well no one is gonna pay Cam Reddish 100+ second year of his contract so you wont extend and this becomes completely meaningless instead of inviting people to invest in such players

+1 year in 2023 for a 23 year old Cam Reddish not gonna make any difference lol

Cam Reddish is projected to go #8 in the draft on nbadraft.net.

#8 pick gets $33 a year. Max extension for the #8 pick would be $63...not $100+


You're arguing that the extensions are too high and hoffa is arguing that they are too low... I wrote this proposal two weeks ago and only smash brought up an alternative which I looked into and put my counterargument to which got no response. I will not be offended if anyone doesn't like this rule change and wants to vote no, but it is a little frustrating that after two weeks and many announcements stating that we would be voting on this soon, that now on the day it gets put up for a vote, that there are all these complaints.

I must have missed your counterargument, but I came up with the alternative because I thought the salaries would be too low compared to market value for star players. If you guys thought it was unfair to the GM's who drafted well I was cool with that, but even with my alternative $300 is pretty cheap compared to what star players got in FA $400-515.

and just for a footnote to the argument- the bold is a problem...no salary should be that high for one player - IMO it shouldnt eclipse 30% of the cap(i think gms learned their lesson on this one)...not to give you more **** to think about Bish but maybe a one time 20% increase of the cap is something you should explore to balance out some of these $500 contracts...at a later date ofcourse when you only have 30 things on your plate
you have my mod vote brother...

[Context]

LET ME BE CLEAR!
what you are doing BISH is UNBELIEVABLE. I ran two BAT's and that was a ton of work- I could only IMAGINE what your
workload is now...I have GREAT respect for you and what you are doing...With that said,
I think we just need to find a way to make things better (if we can) it's not that serious BISH- not sure if you're feeling under appreciated when guys are complaining...I just got back into this so I wont say much but my thoughts are for both sides to- just
take it one step at a time- one improvement at a time- but in the end - we'll get there

Not feeling under appreciated, just frustrated because this proposal has been out there for two weeks waiting for discussion. I agree with you though, one step at a time. For nearly two years people have been calling for ways to keep their draft picks longer and raising the value of the draft. This was my idea. It may not be perfect and it definitely isn't exactly like IRL NBA, because we can't do that. If it needs tweaking over time, I'd obviously be open to that.

and you know what bro- thats good enough...GM's out there- you know who you are- i say this with love- yeah you-the ones that I can never find when im trying to do deals -try to be more active- BISH is essentially doing a part time job called "BAF" if he puts time and energy into a proposal please jump on it...Bish is a better man than me- I FELT underappreciated by SOME of course...anyway...let me know if i can help you in any way Bish...

[Mecca]

Let’s rock OG. Series tied at 2-2 with a crucial game 5.