Is RJ Barrett a beast?

[Clyde_Style]

he will have some good games. some games the shots will fall. they fell for payton once even. but how many bad ones in-between those will he have ? it's the ratio. honestly it's just a bad backcourt. you can blame payton, you can blame rj, you can claim they'd both look better without the other, sure. but it's both of them. they're not very good.

It's a combination of, we're not really using him the right way as well as he's just bricking completely wide open shots

He really isn't a consistent player right now, and he wasn't last year either. The question is, so what?

I don't expect guys to be good right away, and we really shouldn't. Even Obi, who was touted as being super-NBA ready cause he was older I expect to struggle for at least this year, maybe next year too. But that shouldn't mean we should give up on them or call them busts

I get why people are frustrated, but this is how it is. A lot of really good players take a few years to get up to speed, and most of the time, there will be a player better than the one you pick that gets drafted afterwards. That's how life works. It just seems like a large contingent of fans feel entitled to great players but don't want to put the work in or be patient to develop guys

RJ may never be a superstar. And that's okay. He's not a good player right now, and that's okay too. I just don't get this entitlement that some fans have to where we're supposed to turn up our noses at any player who isn't great out the gates. It's just stupid. Let the kids develop, and if they're not good, they're not good. But 4 games into a sophomore year is way too soon to call them a bust, especially when he has shown flashes of greatness, even as recently as 3 games ago.

i don't think anyone is saying don't play him anymore. they're wondering about his future if he can never improve his outside shooting. and honestly, it's a bigger issue than just rj. we'd be more accepting of the struggles of both rj and most of the young guys if they could just shoot decently. the nba has increasingly become about outside shooting. there are a lot of times where the games look like 3 point contests. and we continue to pile up kids who can't really shoot. knox has made progress in a lot of little areas but why is he really looking better this year ? because some 3 point shots are falling. that's it. the question is, how good do you have to be in other areas to make up for a lack of outside shooting ? for any player. what are you excelling at that we can live with it ? the answer for rj right now is...nothing. and so if you can't shoot, how much worth do you really have ? we'll be asking the same questions about obi. it's the same questions we asked about frank. and at least frank can play d which gives him a usable skill.

TO shot 51 threes last night. If we even hit ours for a mediocre % we would have won the game

It appears the basic formula for building a contender now is a good mix of defense and three point shooting

I think we have the coach who fully comprehends this so you're going to need guards and wings and maybe one big who can BOTH play D and hit their shots

Of all of our players, I think Mitch might be the only one who can be made to work without contributing with outside shooting. But everyone else is on the clock and will have to show that blend of abilities or they're gone

[god shammgod]

It's a combination of, we're not really using him the right way as well as he's just bricking completely wide open shots

He really isn't a consistent player right now, and he wasn't last year either. The question is, so what?

I don't expect guys to be good right away, and we really shouldn't. Even Obi, who was touted as being super-NBA ready cause he was older I expect to struggle for at least this year, maybe next year too. But that shouldn't mean we should give up on them or call them busts

I get why people are frustrated, but this is how it is. A lot of really good players take a few years to get up to speed, and most of the time, there will be a player better than the one you pick that gets drafted afterwards. That's how life works. It just seems like a large contingent of fans feel entitled to great players but don't want to put the work in or be patient to develop guys

RJ may never be a superstar. And that's okay. He's not a good player right now, and that's okay too. I just don't get this entitlement that some fans have to where we're supposed to turn up our noses at any player who isn't great out the gates. It's just stupid. Let the kids develop, and if they're not good, they're not good. But 4 games into a sophomore year is way too soon to call them a bust, especially when he has shown flashes of greatness, even as recently as 3 games ago.

i don't think anyone is saying don't play him anymore. they're wondering about his future if he can never improve his outside shooting. and honestly, it's a bigger issue than just rj. we'd be more accepting of the struggles of both rj and most of the young guys if they could just shoot decently. the nba has increasingly become about outside shooting. there are a lot of times where the games look like 3 point contests. and we continue to pile up kids who can't really shoot. knox has made progress in a lot of little areas but why is he really looking better this year ? because some 3 point shots are falling. that's it. the question is, how good do you have to be in other areas to make up for a lack of outside shooting ? for any player. what are you excelling at that we can live with it ? the answer for rj right now is...nothing. and so if you can't shoot, how much worth do you really have ? we'll be asking the same questions about obi. it's the same questions we asked about frank. and at least frank can play d which gives him a usable skill.

TO shot 51 threes last night. If we even hit ours for a mediocre % we would have won the game

It appears the basic formula for building a contender now is a good mix of defense and three point shooting

I think we have the coach who fully comprehends this so you're going to need guards and wings and maybe one big who can BOTH play D and hit their shots

Of all of our players, I think Mitch might be the only one who can be made to work without contributing with outside shooting. But everyone else is on the clock and will have to show that blend of abilities or they're gone

yep. this is the nba now. mitch is clearly anchoring the defense, which gives him value without shooting. but even still, the biggest complaint about mitch from the fans is that he's not taking 3s. if you need him to take them, how can you live with guards who can't make them ?

[Clyde_Style]

When I watch him I just don’t really enjoy it.. nothing about his game is exciting and most of the time it looks like a struggle.. I’ll be honest I don’t think he’s the worst player ever so he’s not a complete bust in that sense, but I have a hard time seeing him being a multi time all star at this point which is ideally what you want from your number 3 pick in a draft. So he is a bust in that sense to me

This. Very few superstars in today’s game wait 3-4 years to show they belong. I’m not really sure what Barrett does or doesn’t do well. He’s so inconsistent from game to game. Gun to my head add him to the recent string of busts for us including Frank and Knox. Doesn’t matter who’s drafting the Knicks just have really bad luck drafting and even worse scouting.

It is not lost on me how ironic it is to say today if I had to pick either Knox or RJ, I'm starting to think maybe Knox's future is brighter. I would not have said that before. I don't think Knox is going to be a great player, but I'm seeing reasons why he can be utilized on a contender to good effect.

Both guys are wildly inconsistent. Perhaps the bar was low on Knox and I'm kidding myself, but I'm seeing more to his game than at any time prior and I think he has the talent to be a good player if he turns the corner and becomes consistent.

[BugginOut]

i don't think anyone is saying don't play him anymore. they're wondering about his future if he can never improve his outside shooting. and honestly, it's a bigger issue than just rj. we'd be more accepting of the struggles of both rj and most of the young guys if they could just shoot decently. the nba has increasingly become about outside shooting. there are a lot of times where the games look like 3 point contests. and we continue to pile up kids who can't really shoot. knox has made progress in a lot of little areas but why is he really looking better this year ? because some 3 point shots are falling. that's it. the question is, how good do you have to be in other areas to make up for a lack of outside shooting ? for any player. what are you excelling at that we can live with it ? the answer for rj right now is...nothing. and so if you can't shoot, how much worth do you really have ? we'll be asking the same questions about obi. it's the same questions we asked about frank. and at least frank can play d which gives him a usable skill.

TO shot 51 threes last night. If we even hit ours for a mediocre % we would have won the game

It appears the basic formula for building a contender now is a good mix of defense and three point shooting

I think we have the coach who fully comprehends this so you're going to need guards and wings and maybe one big who can BOTH play D and hit their shots

Of all of our players, I think Mitch might be the only one who can be made to work without contributing with outside shooting. But everyone else is on the clock and will have to show that blend of abilities or they're gone

yep. this is the nba now. mitch is clearly anchoring the defense, which gives him value without shooting. but even still, the biggest complaint about mitch from the fans is that he's not taking 3s. if you need him to take them, how can you live with guards who can't make them ?

My biggest complaint about Mitch is that he is down in every single category this year. Most important his finishing that was elite has dropped to 56% which is obvious to the multiple fumbled dunks and putbacks he has every game. If Mitch isn't finishing in the high 60s he is useless on offense. People are talking about RJ, but outside Knox, everyone of our young guys have looked bad so far.

[Clyde_Style]

i don't think anyone is saying don't play him anymore. they're wondering about his future if he can never improve his outside shooting. and honestly, it's a bigger issue than just rj. we'd be more accepting of the struggles of both rj and most of the young guys if they could just shoot decently. the nba has increasingly become about outside shooting. there are a lot of times where the games look like 3 point contests. and we continue to pile up kids who can't really shoot. knox has made progress in a lot of little areas but why is he really looking better this year ? because some 3 point shots are falling. that's it. the question is, how good do you have to be in other areas to make up for a lack of outside shooting ? for any player. what are you excelling at that we can live with it ? the answer for rj right now is...nothing. and so if you can't shoot, how much worth do you really have ? we'll be asking the same questions about obi. it's the same questions we asked about frank. and at least frank can play d which gives him a usable skill.

TO shot 51 threes last night. If we even hit ours for a mediocre % we would have won the game

It appears the basic formula for building a contender now is a good mix of defense and three point shooting

I think we have the coach who fully comprehends this so you're going to need guards and wings and maybe one big who can BOTH play D and hit their shots

Of all of our players, I think Mitch might be the only one who can be made to work without contributing with outside shooting. But everyone else is on the clock and will have to show that blend of abilities or they're gone

yep. this is the nba now. mitch is clearly anchoring the defense, which gives him value without shooting. but even still, the biggest complaint about mitch from the fans is that he's not taking 3s. if you need him to take them, how can you live with guards who can't make them ?

We probably see Mitch and value him pretty much the same. It is possible he expands his offensive game, but as a believer that defense wins rings I'm pretty sure a guy who can give you 8-15 super efficient PPG while anchoring the D is someone who can stick with the club. He's raw AF so the maturity and hoops IQ issues are fair game, but I believe his natural talent requires proper coaching and he's finally receiving that. So I think the Mitch we'll see by the end of the season may be an upgrade and thus a significant part of the puzzle. If he doesn't evolve, then those questions may be legit as he has the coaches now to become much better

[Nostrand Ave]

From the 2019 draft, in hindsight, would anyone prefer someone else? If we had a chance to get Ja and passed I would be livid. All we can do is be patient. Only thing that upsets me is that he keeps shooting even when he's having an off night. It's an ego thing with RJ and it bothers me. He will shoot himself out the league like that.

[MaseInYourFace]

I can see him having a Jeff Green/Marvin Williams kind of career. Guys who got drafted high, seemed to have the tools to be better than they turned out to be, had long careers as rotation players, but never put it together to be a high level starter.

Not a bust, but a disappointment.

Hope I'm wrong, though.

If he has that kind of career it’ll be because he never got to a consistent enough level with his offense. I think part of the issue is RJ needs to simplify his offense a bit. He needs to find the spots on the court where he can put up a reliable mid range jumper and where he hits his 3’s the best. He should not be shooting 3’s all over the court because it is highly doubtful he’ll ever become that good of a shooter.

[nedleeds]

From the 2019 draft, in hindsight, would anyone prefer someone else? If we had a chance to get Ja and passed I would be livid. All we can do is be patient. Only thing that upsets me is that he keeps shooting even when he's having an off night. It's an ego thing with RJ and it bothers me. He will shoot himself out the league like that.

Maybe a better question is what other players from the 2019 draft would you take over him, just disregarding that he was the 3 pick.

no doubt
-----------
ja
zion
herro

maybe, at least they do 1 to 2 things at an NBA starter level
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
cam reddish (bigger, better 3 point shooter)
brandon clarke (playing poorly this year, after last year i'd have said yes after he shot 36% from 3 on good volume and was a great rebounder and defender, he's also 24 compared with RJ being 21)
cam johnson (elite stretch shooter, but older, defense is fine)
garland (atrocious defense, can't draw fouls to save his life, but if this 3 point shooting keeps up he'll be a starter)

I feel like if RJ can get his ft% above 80 and be a foul drawing wing who plays good defense and can rebound and go then he'll at least be a rotation player.

Unless they change the rules or he can shoot 3's at a high school starter level he'll never be a quality starter on a real team. With his volume we'll know by year end if he can get there. He's currently shooting 5 a game (almost all uncontested) and clocking a Chuck Hayes like 12.5%.

[Nostrand Ave]

From the 2019 draft, in hindsight, would anyone prefer someone else? If we had a chance to get Ja and passed I would be livid. All we can do is be patient. Only thing that upsets me is that he keeps shooting even when he's having an off night. It's an ego thing with RJ and it bothers me. He will shoot himself out the league like that.

Maybe a better question is what other players from the 2019 draft would you take over him, just disregarding that he was the 3 pick.

no doubt
-----------
ja
zion
herro

maybe, at least they do 1 to 2 things at an NBA starter level
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
cam reddish (bigger, better 3 point shooter)
brandon clarke (playing poorly this year, after last year i'd have said yes after he shot 36% from 3 on good volume and was a great rebounder and defender, he's also 24 compared with RJ being 21)
cam johnson (elite stretch shooter, but older, defense is fine)
garland (atrocious defense, can't draw fouls to save his life, but if this 3 point shooting keeps up he'll be a starter)

I feel like if RJ can get his ft% above 80 and be a foul drawing wing who plays good defense and can rebound and go then he'll at least be a rotation player.

Unless they change the rules or he can shoot 3's at a high school starter level he'll never be a quality starter on a real team. With his volume we'll know by year end if he can get there. He's currently shooting 5 a game (almost all uncontested) and clocking a Chuck Hayes like 12.5%.

Ok, I didn't catch the game. He's missing like that when he's wide open?

[BugginOut]

Looking back at the first game, after he hit the first couple of 3s the defender started going over the screen in the P&R allowing RJ to go downhill and into the paint. Also the first 3s he made were in rhythm when he had the ball in the P&R, he only made one catch and shoot 3.

So I think RJ's path to success is simple. He just has to make 3s at a decent enough rate that the defender goes over the screen instead of under it. This opens up his drives and allows his playmaking. Also he should be taking 3s in the P&R and not catch and shoot as that is not his game, and it is probably harder for him to use his new shot form off the catch and shoot while not in rhythm.

[Nostrand Ave]

See if RJ is humble and isn't obstinate in his ways I say he can make drastic improvements. Markelle Fultz is an example of this. But if RJ feels like nothing is wrong then perhaps this is all we are going to get. Kind of reminds me of John Hamm on 30 Rock.

Watch on YouTube

[Nbabrothers]

Ive heard this several times tonight amongst many Knick fans and especially non Knick fans


I wouldn't call him a bust. Hes def a rotation player

But at a top 3 pick. I dont see the star potential off these last 4 games

He’s not a bust. He needs to be put in situations to succeed. For example, be given the ball for him to drive towards the basket. He scores mostly, if I’m not wrong, from driving to the basket and creating free throw attempts for himself on and ones. He averaged close to five free throws per game which should be higher but not his fault.
If put in a lineup with Quickley back at point and Knox, Mitchell and Obi the floor is spread out which is favorable to his game. Greater transition opportunities with this lineup as well.
He is playing 6mpg more than last year yet only getting to the line .6 more times proves he’s not getting the looks he should be.
The only way he can be considered all star level is if he ups his ppg to 20. He rebounds well at 7.4 snd passes well at 3.6 ast but his shooting percentage needs to improve hence going back to my previous point.

[thebuzzardman]

[HarthorneWingo]

i don't think anyone is saying don't play him anymore. they're wondering about his future if he can never improve his outside shooting. and honestly, it's a bigger issue than just rj. we'd be more accepting of the struggles of both rj and most of the young guys if they could just shoot decently. the nba has increasingly become about outside shooting. there are a lot of times where the games look like 3 point contests. and we continue to pile up kids who can't really shoot. knox has made progress in a lot of little areas but why is he really looking better this year ? because some 3 point shots are falling. that's it. the question is, how good do you have to be in other areas to make up for a lack of outside shooting ? for any player. what are you excelling at that we can live with it ? the answer for rj right now is...nothing. and so if you can't shoot, how much worth do you really have ?

And 5 games into his 2nd year is way too soon to be saying he can't improve his outside shooting

If he doesn't improve, you're right, he won't be worth much, but it annoys me that people are assuming he won't and treating it as fact. People already begging to trade him for Harden while saying he ain't worth sh*t. I give every player at least 3 seasons before judgement, and even that's too quick in some cases, but some people can't even wait 1 season before giving up on a guy. Lord help us if Obi and Quickley aren't John Collins and CJ McCollum their first game back.

i edited this post to say, we're gonna be saying the same things about obi. if obi can't hit outside shots, we'll be instantly wondering what is he really worth. the bigger headache is the combination of all these guys on one team. we keep doing this.

Why can't we just move RJ to the second unit and let him grow with the other youngins.

[MaseInYourFace]

Who is this?

[KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127]

When I watch him I just don’t really enjoy it.. nothing about his game is exciting and most of the time it looks like a struggle.. I’ll be honest I don’t think he’s the worst player ever so he’s not a complete bust in that sense, but I have a hard time seeing him being a multi time all star at this point which is ideally what you want from your number 3 pick in a draft. So he is a bust in that sense to me

This. Very few superstars in today’s game wait 3-4 years to show they belong. I’m not really sure what Barrett does or doesn’t do well. He’s so inconsistent from game to game. Gun to my head add him to the recent string of busts for us including Frank and Knox. Doesn’t matter who’s drafting the Knicks just have really bad luck drafting and even worse scouting.

It is not lost on me how ironic it is to say today if I had to pick either Knox or RJ, I'm starting to think maybe Knox's future is brighter. I would not have said that before. I don't think Knox is going to be a great player, but I'm seeing reasons why he can be utilized on a contender to good effect.

Both guys are wildly inconsistent. Perhaps the bar was low on Knox and I'm kidding myself, but I'm seeing more to his game than at any time prior and I think he has the talent to be a good player if he turns the corner and becomes consistent.

I agree Knox has a defined roll as the first scorer off the bench, we don’t expect much more than that from him. Anything he adds besides points is a plus. RJ still has expectations from the organization and fan base as a starter/star.

[thebuzzardman]

Who is this?

No idea. Seemed appropriate.

[SmoothLefty21]

He's not a bust but he's exactly who he was at Duke. Anyone who watched him closely in college knew what we were getting: an average NBA athlete with no plus-level/standout skill. He needs time to develop.

A) Not an explosive athlete
B) Poor shooter
C) Not a great finisher, especially in traffic.
D) Some playmaking potential, but average vision and not a plus-level playmaker coming into the draft.
E) Works his butt off and has a lot of intangibles.

We're banking on Item E to turn this kid into a borderline All-Star level player.

There's no one else I would have taken in the 2019 draft at #3 but I also knew it was a two-player draft and we missed out on the studs. As of now, Barrett's ceiling is tied to his jumper. If he can become an above-average shooter he might make an all-star team or two. If his jumper never comes around I don't see how you can offer him a second contract. With so many big men learning to shoot, who never shot from range their entire career--and given RJ's work ethic--I think there's a good chance he becomes an at least average 3PT threat.

[prophet_of_rage]

1) We shouldn’t be worrying about fitting a roster around any specific player since we have no star player worthy of making roster moves around
2) Regardless of star players we do need shooters at most positions, it’s the current NBA.
3) RJ isn’t a bust. His shot will improve, his FT is looking much better which is a good sign. These reactions threads are always too extreme. He’s either better than Ja or he’s headed to China. You’re a sick group of people, you know that?

Hinkie philosophy was championship or bust. That's how fans think now.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[prophet_of_rage]

yeah. i won't even get into if he's a bust or not yet, although dagawd is pretty much making a compelling as f*ck argument. but i've been saying the same thing. you can't build around him. he doesn't have nearly enough talent to be built around. how far are you ever getting with that ? all people seem to want to do is make his stats look a little better.

I'm not going to say he's a bust either, he's still a very young player learning the game, but I just think he gets a special coddling that other young players haven't gotten, I see very little accountability. Maybe they are afraid if they bench him it will hurt his confidence. I don't know what it is.

i wouldn't mind benching him. i've noticed that his best basketball (according to my eyes at least) seems to happen when knox and frank (and now IQ) are sharing the floor with him. things get fast and the ball gets shared. i'm honestly somewhat surprised he's been playing like a black hole

Because he is the alpha in that group.

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