Thibs Got To Go

[HopelessKnick]

After winning COTY it is too early to fire Thibs. The only thing that could have him canned this season would be a double digit losing streak or something else that is extreme. In regards to the current state of the team, I would put a huge chunk of the blame on the players and the FO as well. Last year the Knicks had good defense on all 5 positions on the floor---this year they don't. After the impressions left from the Hawks series the FO went All-in on acquiring and extending talent on offense and it failed (letting go of Bullock, acquiring Kemba and Fournier). The Knicks starting line-up essentially went from having 4.5 good defenders (Randle being ok) to having only 2 good defenders in the line-up.

If you look at last years team, the Knicks had one guy playing on legit All-star level (Randle) and two players on star-level (Rose and Barrett). This season Randle and Barrett have regressed so far. While I disagree with many things that Thibs is doing, I cannot put the regression of Randle and Barrett (both young and healthy) on Thibs. Either Randle's season was a complete fluke and aberration or we'll hopefully see some elevation to his game in the second half of the season.

However, Thibs definitely has his blind spots and flaws. On a team that is not contending and has a chunk of young players it is unclear if Thibs is a good fit. At this stage it is not wise to give the biggest chunk of playing time to veterans that are ultimately not going to make you a top team. For the Knicks it is much more important to find out what exactly they have in all their young players.

Especially they play of Quentin Grimes recently (hitting 12 three-pointers in 2 games along with solid defense and decision-making) is making Thibs look bad. It begs the question: Why did someone like Grimes not get any burn after say 15 games when it was clear that the additions weren't working out quite well and the Knicks were struggling to find defense and shot-making? I ask this question especially in regards to Grimes because to me his shooting ability does not look flukish at all. His shot looks beautifully smooth, he shows no hesitation at all and does not seem to be bothered by an opposing player standing close to him either. On top of that he looks like a potentially strong perimeter defender. Now I could understand him riding the bench if the team was playing very well----but with them struggling and losing so many games and Grimes looking like he can replicate what Bullock gave us last season, I find it difficult to understand why he only started to get time when the COVID situation literally forced Thibs hand on this.

This leads me to my final point: I think management should be looking at a smaller trade in the coming weeks where they trade one of the veteran perimeter players for a future pick or consideration just to make room for the younger players--the logical candidate here being Burks. The Rose injury is a blessing in disguise at this point because it opens up several possibilities:

1) Rose is a very proven commodity around the leage and the injury will give his body time to regenerate so he can have a strong final 30 games and potentially playoffs. Teams that are in contention may be willing to trade us a late first round pick or early second round pick at the deadline. It opens up playing time for Quickley, McBride and Grimes.

2) If Kemba can keep up his current play his market value will rise quite significantly. His contract is cheap and in this form he could be a huge boost to a contending team providing him the right situation.

Let me conclude with this: I have never been a fan of many of the Knicks draftees and rookies. Never expected much from Knox, Robinson, Ntilikina etc.---not even too high on Quickly and Barrett (although I love RJ's attitude and hope he proves me wrong but he looks to me way too stiff and mechanical to become a legit first or second option on a contending team)--but I am high on Grimes. To me his shooting ability screams "natural talent". He is not the most explosive athlete but with his quick, confident and smooth stroke along with potentially good defense and decision making I see a rock solid starter at the 2 in this league. To me his floor is Brogdon and his ceiling something like Klay (I know I am reaching here and he probably is not gonna reach there). Grimes should be getting at least 25 minutes per game from here on out and I hope the FO is smart enough to realize that out of the 4 veterans (Rose, Kemba, Burks and Fournier) at least one should go, preferrably two.

[HopelessKnick]

I just read an article from 2 weeks ago:

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjTlMTptIT1AhUmR_EDHVC-BpYQFnoECAcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2F2021%2F12%2F07%2Fnew-york-knicks-thibodeau-calls-out-rj-barrett%2F&usg=AOvVaw2Evk2ZpjxiAX4F87EtiokO

That really surprised me a lot. Wasn't RJ supposed to have elite work ethic? Now if RJ has limited natural basketball talent along with a less than elite work ethic, than he sure as hell is not gonna make it here. I'm kind of bummed----I thought he was a gym rat. For Thibs to be calling him out in the open he must have been lagging in that department for quite some time. It sure as hell explains his regression this season.

[HarthorneWingo]

Thibs is not getting fired this season or next.

[NYKat]

Thibs won COTY last year, but he’s been flat out terrible this year.

I know I’ve been beating a dead horse about it, but for him to actually think to himself…

“I’ll banish Kemba Walker from the rotation COMPLETELY in favor of Alec Burks (WHO IS NOT EVEN A POINT GUARD!!) when we have a WININNG RECORD”

…was such a ridiculously poor decision it should have been a fireable offense in and of itself… Covid turned out to be a blessing in disguise to save Thibs from himself otherwise Kemba still wouldn’t be playing.

[HopelessKnick]

Thibs won COTY last year, but he’s been flat out terrible this year.

I know I’ve been beating a dead horse about it, but for him to actually think to himself…

“I’ll banish Kemba Walker from the rotation COMPLETELY in favor of Alec Burks (WHO IS NOT EVEN A POINT GUARD!!) when we have a WININNG RECORD”

…was such a ridiculously poor decision it should have been a fireable offense in and of itself… Covid turned out to be a blessing in disguise to save Thibs from himself otherwise Kemba still wouldn’t be playing.

Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in this. You have to consider that if there was no Covid outbreak on the Knicks, Kemba would have 4 more DNPs and no eastern conference player of the week award. It really is crazy to consider that. And like you said, the benching was not in favor of giving the young guys more minutes or changing the team's direction or whatever---it was to make Alec Burks the PG of this team. I don't know if that is a fireable offense itself but it sure as hell raises huge huge question marks about Thibs judgement and decision making. It somehow shows what some have criticized before: He has this rigid vision of what a team needs to look like to succeed in this league and it seems that he has a very very hard time to divert from that. He'd rather play a 6'6 SG with minimal playmaking skills at PG because in his mind having a 6 feet tall PG is a liability (granted Kemba's defense is weak).

Same goes for not playing Grimes: Again his hand got forced here due to COVID and all of a sudden a 21-year old Grimes pops up who looks like he may be this team's best shooter and a good perimeter defender as well. It is concerning that Thibs seemingly has a hard time making the correct judgements.

Same goes for the Center situation: He has this idea that you must have a tall shotblocking presence at the 5 or otherwise you can't succeed. Maybe -again due to Covid- we will be forced to play Randle and Toppin alongside each other and all of a sudden our offense will look much better with much improved spacing. Not saying that it definitely would, but on a team losing games left and right --what do you have to lose trying to find minutes for the only player that has shown some improvement from last year? What is the downside of giving unconventional line-ups a try? Maybe Randle would be more effective taking all the 5s in this league of the dribble and maybe the mobility and spacing of such a line-up would cancel out the **** defense. Why not roll out your best possible perimeter defense (McBride-Grimes-Barrett) along with Toppin and Randle and see how they do?

Between Thib's lack of correct judgement, Randle's inexplicable regression and Barrett's seemingly lack of consistent work ethic....there are unfortunately many red flags about this team and coach. However there is no need to panic. We are generally in a good spot--even if we don't succeed this season. All our players will be easily tradable in the offseason, we have our own picks and other FRPs and a bunch of interesting young players on the roster. As a Knicks fan for close to 3 decades now I can assure you that we have been in much much worse positions. Try having a roster full of Evan Fourniers or Alec Burks type players with all FRPs traded for multiple years and players locked into absolutely unmovable contracts and **** coaches. Compared to that we are still in a very solid position.

[Juco24]

Thibs is too F'ing stubborn to win a title and develop players. Can't stand the gut

[Clyde_Style]

Thibs is not getting fired this season or next.

He could easily get fired next season if they miss the play-ins this season and they falter in the first half of next season. He's not untouchable

[nyczlegacy]

Did Obi bang out Thibs wife why is he in the doghouse?

[TKKnicks1]

Did Obi bang out Thibs wife why is he in the doghouse?

Its absolutely ridiculous the hate Obi gets from the coach. He does 2 things wrong during a game and hes pulled immediately. On the other hand we got Randle turning the ball over, taking awful contested shots while doubled that don't even meet the rim, completely giving up on defense, etc and hes left out there playing 40 minutes a night. I don't understand what Thibs sees that we all don't see in Randle.

[KnixtapeH20]

If Thibs really thinks having Randle take a last second contested shot to end the half, if he thinks that's the best option for us to be successful to score then he's a terrible **** coach.

Just wasting possessions.

[Spot31]

Did Obi bang out Thibs wife why is he in the doghouse?

Tom Thibodeau is not married! Basketball is his only love

[NYKat]

It’s a hunch but I get the feeling Woodoson was the perfect buffer to protect Thibs from his worst tendencies…

really missing his voice in the locker room.

[rayraypico]

It’s a hunch but I get the feeling Woodoson was the perfect buffer to protect Thibs from his worst tendencies…

really missing his voice in the locker room.

Agree with this. The fact that Randle went for a technical free throw with Quickley on the floor the other night should have a headcoach fuming. Thibs doesnt do anything about it. Feel like he is lost in Randles glory and not seeing the writing on the wall. Woody would have called that out

[robillionaire]

It’s a hunch but I get the feeling Woodoson was the perfect buffer to protect Thibs from his worst tendencies…

really missing his voice in the locker room.

Agree with this. The fact that Randle went for a technical free throw with Quickley on the floor the other night should have a headcoach fuming. Thibs doesnt do anything about it. Feel like he is lost in Randles glory and not seeing the writing on the wall. Woody would have called that out

I find it hilarious people are mad about this. For one he made the free throw but also it’s not uncommon to have a player who is struggling take a tech free throw to try to get them in rhythm and going. Learn the game ppl

[thebuzzardman]

It’s a hunch but I get the feeling Woodoson was the perfect buffer to protect Thibs from his worst tendencies…

really missing his voice in the locker room.

Agree with this. The fact that Randle went for a technical free throw with Quickley on the floor the other night should have a headcoach fuming. Thibs doesnt do anything about it. Feel like he is lost in Randles glory and not seeing the writing on the wall. Woody would have called that out

I find it hilarious people are mad about this. For one he made the free throw but also it’s not uncommon to have a player who is struggling take a tech free throw to try to get them in rhythm and going. Learn the game ppl

I thought it showed motivation, which is a good trait, as the coach also seems to be a highly motivated individual. Again, I'm just learning about the team and coach, but both seem like a keeper!

[Ray Williams]

Agree with this. The fact that Randle went for a technical free throw with Quickley on the floor the other night should have a headcoach fuming. Thibs doesnt do anything about it. Feel like he is lost in Randles glory and not seeing the writing on the wall. Woody would have called that out

I find it hilarious people are mad about this. For one he made the free throw but also it’s not uncommon to have a player who is struggling take a tech free throw to try to get them in rhythm and going. Learn the game ppl

I thought it showed motivation, which is a good trait, as the coach also seems to be a highly motivated individual. Again, I'm just learning about the team and coach, but both seem like a keeper!

You’re father is rolling in his grave.

[thebuzzardman]

I find it hilarious people are mad about this. For one he made the free throw but also it’s not uncommon to have a player who is struggling take a tech free throw to try to get them in rhythm and going. Learn the game ppl

I thought it showed motivation, which is a good trait, as the coach also seems to be a highly motivated individual. Again, I'm just learning about the team and coach, but both seem like a keeper!

You’re father is rolling in his grave.

Maybe the team sees Randle as a 1B, or 2nd option. Or saw him that way. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to want to play a style conducive to being a second option.

[robillionaire]

I thought it showed motivation, which is a good trait, as the coach also seems to be a highly motivated individual. Again, I'm just learning about the team and coach, but both seem like a keeper!

You’re father is rolling in his grave.

Maybe the team sees Randle as a 1B, or 2nd option. Or saw him that way. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to want to play a style conducive to being a second option.

The rest of the team isn’t good enough to play that style, they all just defer to him. Mitch has no offensive game outside of lobs or garbage clean up. RJ can’t shoot or get by a defender or score at the rim and routinely has 0 point entire halves of games. Friar Suck gets his opportunities and often passes up wide open shots for more difficult shots and he certainly isn’t a first option. I thought maybe rejuvenated Kemba was going to change things but he switches between aggressively scoring 44 and then going 1-5 and playing timid and passive depending on his mood or maybe knee pain that day. In the last game he just dribbled it up and stood in the corner. Maybe they should get a real first option in here who actually wants to play aggressive before concluding Randle just don’t wanna do it.

He’s not playing tonight, curious at who the first or second options will even be. IQ is probably the only one aggressive and confident enough to try to step into the role. Or maybe bipolar Kemba if he feels like it. Or Toppin accepts the responsibility. We’ll see

[3toheadmelo]

I find it hilarious people are mad about this. For one he made the free throw but also it’s not uncommon to have a player who is struggling take a tech free throw to try to get them in rhythm and going. Learn the game ppl

I thought it showed motivation, which is a good trait, as the coach also seems to be a highly motivated individual. Again, I'm just learning about the team and coach, but both seem like a keeper!

You’re father is rolling in his grave.

His father would be very proud of him! Great post buzz jr!!!!

Thibs and Randle are awesome!!!

[robillionaire]

Also Kemba 1-5 in the last game, the game before that 3-11 and all 3 were 3s so no 2 point baskets, the Christmas game 3-12 and 2-9 from 3 so 1 2 point basket. He isn’t driving and trying to score at the rim for the past 3 games now like he did in the prior affairs when he was playing with a chip on his shoulder

So we have a lineup of a non aggressive non driving PG who maybe fears contact except on rare special occasions when he’s mad about getting benched, the inconsistent friar suck, maple Morrison who plays timid shoots poor percentages and likes to have 0 point halves, and Mitch who bless his heart has absolutely no offensive ability yet just led the team in scoring in the last game all on putback dunks off bricks. Which of these are supposed to supplant Randle as a number 1 scoring option so he can take a backseat and relax. Edit: my bad I forgot Fournier was out in the last game so they started grimes and he had 0 points.

IQ is the only one who I think actually wants the smoke and would take shots away from Randle and Thibs isn’t going to start him nor am I convinced he’s should be first option on offense

This team sucks