Is Brunson the pg Knicks have needed

[whocares1]

Signing Brunson is only a treadmill move if you think you can't trade the contract down the line.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong with making incremental upgrades.

I heard this in the Fournier signing thread too.

There was no need to overpay for a one dimensional scorer who can't play defense. A lot of people hated the Fournier signing when it happened and then tried to rationalize it since there was nothing anyone can do at that moment.

There is a need for a PG though.

It’s not even that they rationalized it. They started to support the move which is different and much worse. We do need a point guard that’s for sure but at this point we are not even close to a championship so anything that marginally makes us better that requires us to give up assets and a lot of cap space doesn’t make sense to me.

I guess if we just want to watch more entertaining basketball than sure but no star player is saying “Hey the Knicks have RJ and Jalen Brunson, I think I want to sign here.” We’d just be doing to try to be a treadmill team.

[cgmw]

I heard this in the Fournier signing thread too.

There was no need to overpay for a one dimensional scorer who can't play defense. A lot of people hated the Fournier signing when it happened and then tried to rationalize it since there was nothing anyone can do at that moment.

There is a need for a PG though.

It’s not even that they rationalized it. They started to support the move which is different and much worse. We do need a point guard that’s for sure but at this point we are not even close to a championship so anything that marginally makes us better that requires us to give up assets and a lot of cap space doesn’t make sense to me.

I guess if we just want to watch more entertaining basketball than sure but no star player is saying “Hey the Knicks have RJ and Jalen Brunson, I think I want to sign here.” We’d just be doing to try to be a treadmill team.

Exactly, and what’s worse is that Jalen Brunson would only sign here if he had literally no other options for the same money. Players know there’s no future here. They know it’s volatile and can turn nasty on a dime. He’d only come here as a payday and then probably demand a trade like Randle is probably doing as we speak.

But whatever, let’s see how Dolan’s CAA Mafia dream plays out. Can’t wait for those CAA superstars to start banging down the door to Leon’s pork store.

[3toheadmelo]

How is a mediocre backup an upgrade over kemba?

He's averaging 18ppg, 6.5apg, 4.2apg on 50%FG and 36% 3pt as a starter, and he's doing it with only 30% of his shots being assisted.

Watch on YouTube

You'll notice in these highlights how much he's creating for himself, that is not a backup PG and their record improved when they made him starting PG.

You were against Brunson like a week ago, now you want him huh..

[NoDopeOnSundays]

How is a mediocre backup an upgrade over kemba?

He's averaging 18ppg, 6.5apg, 4.2apg on 50%FG and 36% 3pt as a starter, and he's doing it with only 30% of his shots being assisted.

Watch on YouTube

You'll notice in these highlights how much he's creating for himself, that is not a backup PG and their record improved when they made him starting PG.

You were against Brunson like a week ago, now you want him huh..

I was against the idea of giving up a ton of assets because of how asinine it is to blow caproom on Kemba/Fournier when there's a player you covet on the market in the future, and I said he's not the next VanVleet, because he's not that good of a volume three point shooter. I also said I'd take him over Fox, half the price similar production. Plus, getting him would mean goodbye to Randle in the medium term

You really want to go to war with me again? I got my flag hanging from your capital building right now, all Meloicans are learning my language and have my picture on their walls at their homes.

[thebuzzardman]

It’s not me, it’s the nature of reality. The Knicks refuse to admit that they aren’t a destination for top veterans. Instead they continue to operate in preparation of a massive delusional shortcut like KD, Kyrie and Zion.

Instead of having vision, courage, and the basic humility to admit that no veteran star is coming here (without a massive toxic overpay); Dolan’s minions insist on operating with a delusional lack of integrity trying to beat the odds by hitting home runs on up-and-coming 26 year old veterans as if by doing so it will make us cool enough again to recruit the next wave of LeBrons and Durants.

And in Randle’s case they doubled down the delusional pretense by acting as if he’s a perennial All-NBA player who will surely recruit fellow All-NBA players just like fugaze Fizdale was supposed to do. Both Fizdale and Randle then, shockingly, fall victim to overhyped expectations gone bad.

The great irony here is that it would take 2-3 seasons TOPS of doing things the right way before the Knicks would stumble on the kind of franchise talent they’ve been so desperate to acquire. In the meantime, signings like Randle, Fournier, Kemba, Burks, Noel, and now maybe Brunson are just more of the same disgraceful negligence from an ownership who’s main priority is pretending like we’re more attractive than we really are.

Pretty much all of your post is spot on, but especially the bolded part. Tanking 2-3 seasons hardcore would have probably gotten us a first or second pick and another top 5 picks and we'd probably have had our franchise talent already. Dang I remember prior to the Towns draft we held the worst record in the league but **** ourselves winning the last two games and then having no lottery luck and dropping to 4. I know Towns may not be a top superstar but he'd have been a nice franchise type building block.

Those extra couple wins at the end of the season are exactly the kind of short-sighted, ego-driven, toxic, self-destructive bullsh*t that make the Knicks a non-destination for serious talent, either players or coaches/executives.

And so would yet another veteran signing like Brunson, who very well could be a solid starter for us. But like those extra couple wins that cost us lottery odds, what is the point exactly? Bigger picture, what does Jaylen Brunson accomplish here? Let’s say he plays at an All Star level. Now what?

I can tell you what the Knicks FO think. They think he’ll sell Playoff tickets, cable subscriptions and give us an air of respectability that would make us a destination for bigger fish down the line. Obviously I think that’s a far-fetched delusion that reeks of the same toxic Dolan stench that’s torn down a once-great franchise. But hey, that’s just one long-suffering fan’s opinion. Let’s just keep repeating history for another 20 years. What did Van Gundy say about insanity again?

Any Brunson trade isn't about this year, it's about next year etc. If the trade has to happen during THIS season, Knicks should do it. I doubt it would, since the Mavericks wouldn't do that.

[3toheadmelo]

He's averaging 18ppg, 6.5apg, 4.2apg on 50%FG and 36% 3pt as a starter, and he's doing it with only 30% of his shots being assisted.

Watch on YouTube

You'll notice in these highlights how much he's creating for himself, that is not a backup PG and their record improved when they made him starting PG.

You were against Brunson like a week ago, now you want him huh..

I was against the idea of giving up a ton of assets because of how asinine it is to blow caproom on Kemba/Fournier when there's a player you covet on the market in the future, and I said he's not the next VanVleet, because he's not that good of a volume three point shooter. I also said I'd take him over Fox, half the price similar production. Plus, getting him would mean goodbye to Randle in the medium term

You really want to go to war with me again? I got my flag hanging from your capital building right now, all Meloicans are learning my language and have my picture on their walls at their homes.

I have already won the first war my friend. I don’t mind winning another! Thenodopestanians have already sided with me.

Replacing Randle with Brunson is like replacing Burks with Fournier. What difference does it make? $20 mil a year for someone who’s a fringe starter isn’t going to do us anything good in the long term.

[thebuzzardman]

The only way that team makes the playoffs is if somebody in that group elevates their play to All-Star level. If that's the case, then perhaps we actually become a viable destination for top-level Free Agents afterall.

Otherwise, that squad will commit the very predictable mistakes young players make that lead to teams being at the bottom of the standings. Either way, it's a feasible path forward.

As it stands, signing another Brunson-level veteran does absolutely nothing except set the bar of "excellence" as "go out there, sell tickets, and compete for the 12 seed play-in game while Leon combs the trade market for a disgruntled former star."

It's like there's no middle path the Knicks can ever take for you.

What the Knicks need to do is get in players who are good, who fit more easily with a variety of potentially in bound players.

Knicks f*cked up by investing long term in Randle or signing Fournier, but why not try to be the 7th or 8th seed with DeRozan and...Trent Jr instead? That wouldn't be a great team, but better than current one.

Again, why not bring in a guy like Brunson who offers more in ability/availability than Kemba/Rose?

Brunson makes the team a little better and that's worth it, IF done correctly and getting rid of Fournier/Burks/ Noel in the correct timeline.

It’s not me, it’s the nature of reality. The Knicks refuse to admit that they aren’t a destination for top veterans. Instead they continue to operate in preparation of a massive delusional shortcut like KD, Kyrie and Zion.

Instead of having vision, courage, and the basic humility to admit that no veteran star is coming here (without a massive toxic overpay); Dolan’s minions insist on operating with a delusional lack of integrity trying to beat the odds by hitting home runs on up-and-coming 26 year old veterans as if by doing so it will make us cool enough again to recruit the next wave of LeBrons and Durants.

And in Randle’s case they doubled down the delusional pretense by acting as if he’s a perennial All-NBA player who will surely recruit fellow All-NBA players just like fugaze Fizdale was supposed to do. Both Fizdale and Randle then, shockingly, fall victim to overhyped expectations gone bad.

The great irony here is that it would take 2-3 seasons TOPS of doing things the right way before the Knicks would stumble on the kind of franchise talent they’ve been so desperate to acquire. In the meantime, signings like Randle, Fournier, Kemba, Burks, Noel, and now maybe Brunson are just more of the same disgraceful negligence from an ownership who’s main priority is pretending like we’re more attractive than we really are.

So, the Knicks should acknowledge they aren't going to get any stars in here but also not sign Brunson and try to get better either. Ok. I get it.

This is the pure "lets tank and build exclusively through the draft" argument.

Brunson is a good trade target because it's a position of need. Because he's actually good.
Kemba and Fournier were bad ideas because they aren't that good.
Burks? Whatever. He was brought in to play a bench role. He's overpromoted because the Knicks decided to role out Kemba and Rose for 48 minutes per game, even though both have injury concerns.
Noel? Yeah, that sucked but they needed a backup C. I'd have signed someone else, but it was going to be SOMEONE.
Randle we've all been over too many times to repeat.

[thebuzzardman]

I just remembered why I rarely get into serious discussions on here. It's not worth it.

[thebuzzardman]

It's like there's no middle path the Knicks can ever take for you.

What the Knicks need to do is get in players who are good, who fit more easily with a variety of potentially in bound players.

Knicks f*cked up by investing long term in Randle or signing Fournier, but why not try to be the 7th or 8th seed with DeRozan and...Trent Jr instead? That wouldn't be a great team, but better than current one.

Again, why not bring in a guy like Brunson who offers more in ability/availability than Kemba/Rose?

Brunson makes the team a little better and that's worth it, IF done correctly and getting rid of Fournier/Burks/ Noel in the correct timeline.

It’s not me, it’s the nature of reality. The Knicks refuse to admit that they aren’t a destination for top veterans. Instead they continue to operate in preparation of a massive delusional shortcut like KD, Kyrie and Zion.

Instead of having vision, courage, and the basic humility to admit that no veteran star is coming here (without a massive toxic overpay); Dolan’s minions insist on operating with a delusional lack of integrity trying to beat the odds by hitting home runs on up-and-coming 26 year old veterans as if by doing so it will make us cool enough again to recruit the next wave of LeBrons and Durants.

And in Randle’s case they doubled down the delusional pretense by acting as if he’s a perennial All-NBA player who will surely recruit fellow All-NBA players just like fugaze Fizdale was supposed to do. Both Fizdale and Randle then, shockingly, fall victim to overhyped expectations gone bad.

The great irony here is that it would take 2-3 seasons TOPS of doing things the right way before the Knicks would stumble on the kind of franchise talent they’ve been so desperate to acquire. In the meantime, signings like Randle, Fournier, Kemba, Burks, Noel, and now maybe Brunson are just more of the same disgraceful negligence from an ownership who’s main priority is pretending like we’re more attractive than we really are.

Pretty much all of your post is spot on, but especially the bolded part. Tanking 2-3 seasons hardcore would have probably gotten us a first or second pick and another top 5 picks and we'd probably have had our franchise talent already. Dang I remember prior to the Towns draft we held the worst record in the league but **** ourselves winning the last two games and then having no lottery luck and dropping to 4. I know Towns may not be a top superstar but he'd have been a nice franchise type building block.

Welp, it's too late for the tank right now, so do nothing to better the team is the path eh?

Tanking would have been nice. It's not going to happen for a few years now.

[thebuzzardman]

He's averaging 18ppg, 6.5apg, 4.2apg on 50%FG and 36% 3pt as a starter, and he's doing it with only 30% of his shots being assisted.

Watch on YouTube

You'll notice in these highlights how much he's creating for himself, that is not a backup PG and their record improved when they made him starting PG.

You were against Brunson like a week ago, now you want him huh..

I was against the idea of giving up a ton of assets because of how asinine it is to blow caproom on Kemba/Fournier when there's a player you covet on the market in the future, and I said he's not the next VanVleet, because he's not that good of a volume three point shooter. I also said I'd take him over Fox, half the price similar production. Plus, getting him would mean goodbye to Randle in the medium term

You really want to go to war with me again? I got my flag hanging from your capital building right now, all Meloicans are learning my language and have my picture on their walls at their homes.

F*ck everybody on here. They want to tank for some imaginary draft star that never comes, or any player who is actually decent isn't "good enough" to satisfy some weird metric of who is elevated enough to don the vaunted Knick uniform.

They deserve the Elfs and Fourniers of the NBA. And 10 years of Randle sulking.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

You were against Brunson like a week ago, now you want him huh..

I was against the idea of giving up a ton of assets because of how asinine it is to blow caproom on Kemba/Fournier when there's a player you covet on the market in the future, and I said he's not the next VanVleet, because he's not that good of a volume three point shooter. I also said I'd take him over Fox, half the price similar production. Plus, getting him would mean goodbye to Randle in the medium term

You really want to go to war with me again? I got my flag hanging from your capital building right now, all Meloicans are learning my language and have my picture on their walls at their homes.

I have already won the first war my friend. I don’t mind winning another! Thenodopestanians have already sided with me.

Replacing Randle with Brunson is like replacing Burks with Fournier. What difference does it make? $20 mil a year for someone who’s a fringe starter isn’t going to do us anything good in the long term.

Nah, you literally waved the white flag, all the countries of Knicks UN saw it. Now I got work and re-education programs to take all Meloicans out of the 3rd world, to a brighter future without isolation spinning turnovers or ineffective step backs. You keep this up and we're gonna take your Oreo refineries and wells.

No it's not the same, it's taking the ball out of an inefficient players' hands and putting it into the hands of an actual PG who is a much more efficient scorer and passer. The pace of our team would pick up, we can run fundamental plays between the primary ball handler and our bigs, and he's shown he can play off a dominant ball handler so he's future proof in case we do get a superstar in the next 3-5 years.

[3toheadmelo]

I was against the idea of giving up a ton of assets because of how asinine it is to blow caproom on Kemba/Fournier when there's a player you covet on the market in the future, and I said he's not the next VanVleet, because he's not that good of a volume three point shooter. I also said I'd take him over Fox, half the price similar production. Plus, getting him would mean goodbye to Randle in the medium term

You really want to go to war with me again? I got my flag hanging from your capital building right now, all Meloicans are learning my language and have my picture on their walls at their homes.

I have already won the first war my friend. I don’t mind winning another! Thenodopestanians have already sided with me.

Replacing Randle with Brunson is like replacing Burks with Fournier. What difference does it make? $20 mil a year for someone who’s a fringe starter isn’t going to do us anything good in the long term.

Nah, you literally waved the white flag, all the countries of Knicks UN saw it. Now I got work and re-education programs to take all Meloicans out of the 3rd world, to a brighter future without isolation spinning turnovers or ineffective step backs. You keep this up and we're gonna take your Oreo refineries and wells.

No it's not the same, it's taking the ball out of an inefficient players' hands and putting it into the hands of an actual PG who is a much more efficient scorer and passer. The pace of our team would pick up, we can run fundamental plays between the primary ball handler and our bigs, and he's shown he can play off a dominant ball handler so he's future proof in case we do get a superstar in the next 3-5 years.

the white flag gif was just a mind game to make you think i gave up, but i never did. thenodopetrumpians will not be able to steal this win. the win was made official after he signed that extension! everything after the extension is irrelavant. you are trying to win a war that already ended a year ago. let it go man!!!

why are we giving 20 mil to a back up pg when it's clear the knicks aren't going anywhere with this core and thibs. we should be blowing up the whole team and going full youth instead of overpaying for 26 year olds that won't change this team into a contender. you're just prolonging the treadmill. wait for someone like donovan mitchell or tatum to ask out instead of giving the bag to brunson.

[HEZI]

Won't find a solution as long as Randle is in the picture. Could we use a guy like Brunson? Yes of course but the goal still needs to remain to trade Randle. So if we need to include pieces to dump Randle, then it isn't worth giving those pieces up for Brunson because Randle will still be here. Move on from Randle first and foremost then worry about the rest of the team

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I have already won the first war my friend. I don’t mind winning another! Thenodopestanians have already sided with me.

Replacing Randle with Brunson is like replacing Burks with Fournier. What difference does it make? $20 mil a year for someone who’s a fringe starter isn’t going to do us anything good in the long term.

Nah, you literally waved the white flag, all the countries of Knicks UN saw it. Now I got work and re-education programs to take all Meloicans out of the 3rd world, to a brighter future without isolation spinning turnovers or ineffective step backs. You keep this up and we're gonna take your Oreo refineries and wells.

No it's not the same, it's taking the ball out of an inefficient players' hands and putting it into the hands of an actual PG who is a much more efficient scorer and passer. The pace of our team would pick up, we can run fundamental plays between the primary ball handler and our bigs, and he's shown he can play off a dominant ball handler so he's future proof in case we do get a superstar in the next 3-5 years.

the white flag gif was just a mind game to make you think i gave up, but i never did. thenodopetrumpians will not be able to steal this win. the win was made official after he signed that extension! everything after the extension is irrelavant. you are trying to win a war that already ended a year ago. let it go man!!!

why are we giving 20 mil to a back up pg when it's clear the knicks aren't going anywhere with this core and thibs. we should be blowing up the whole team and going full youth instead of overpaying for 26 year olds that won't change this team into a contender. you're just prolonging the treadmill. wait for someone like donovan mitchell or tatum to ask out instead of giving the bag to brunson.

They trying to trade this bum, not even a year into his extension, your nation will crumble if they actually trade him anytime in the next 4 yrs. I don't even think they have running water in most of Meloghanistan, just Mountain dew, it's a backwards nation that I'm trying to help. The belief in Randle is the nations religion and we are going to abolish that and bring analytics and reason here.


I remember this convo, you said all the same things about Fred, you about to call him Jalen Belton arent you? Only for him to comeback and average 20-22ppg for the Pistons next year while we pray that some big time FA will pick us, even though we don't have a PG. I'm just prolonging the treadmill?



The man who actually wanted Randle resigned and wanted to make the playoffs last years is telling me I want to prolong the treadmill? This is Fox news level spinning, rather One America News Network.

[KnicksGadfly]

He’s obviously not the 1A star the Knicks need, but the next question the Knicks should ask is if he can play with that star. He seems to be able to. After that, it’s all a matter of price. My only worry is the Knicks overpay cause of their connections to this kid.

[KnicksGadfly]

Y’all also can’t really blame Melo for Randle’s resigning. I still think it was the right move at the time. Randle had had a great year, seemed to embrace his responsibilities and Thibs, and was at an age when he should have been peaking. Definitely a gamble, but what if Randle put in another great year, got a Supermax and then started to suck? I was a long time Randle hater and I loved what he did last year.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Y’all also can’t really blame Melo for Randle’s resigning.

[3toheadmelo]

Nah, you literally waved the white flag, all the countries of Knicks UN saw it. Now I got work and re-education programs to take all Meloicans out of the 3rd world, to a brighter future without isolation spinning turnovers or ineffective step backs. You keep this up and we're gonna take your Oreo refineries and wells.

No it's not the same, it's taking the ball out of an inefficient players' hands and putting it into the hands of an actual PG who is a much more efficient scorer and passer. The pace of our team would pick up, we can run fundamental plays between the primary ball handler and our bigs, and he's shown he can play off a dominant ball handler so he's future proof in case we do get a superstar in the next 3-5 years.

the white flag gif was just a mind game to make you think i gave up, but i never did. thenodopetrumpians will not be able to steal this win. the win was made official after he signed that extension! everything after the extension is irrelavant. you are trying to win a war that already ended a year ago. let it go man!!!

why are we giving 20 mil to a back up pg when it's clear the knicks aren't going anywhere with this core and thibs. we should be blowing up the whole team and going full youth instead of overpaying for 26 year olds that won't change this team into a contender. you're just prolonging the treadmill. wait for someone like donovan mitchell or tatum to ask out instead of giving the bag to brunson.

They trying to trade this bum, not even a year into his extension, your nation will crumble if they actually trade him anytime in the next 4 yrs. I don't even think they have running water in most of Meloghanistan, just Mountain dew, it's a backwards nation that I'm trying to help. The belief in Randle is the nations religion and we are going to abolish that and bring analytics and reason here.


I remember this convo, you said all the same things about Fred, you about to call him Jalen Belton arent you? Only for him to comeback and average 20-22ppg for the Pistons next year while we pray that some big time FA will pick us, even though we don't have a PG. I'm just prolonging the treadmill?



The man who actually wanted Randle resigned and wanted to make the playoffs last years is telling me I want to prolong the treadmill? This is Fox news level spinning, rather One America News Network.

like i said, the win was already made official!! stop trying to steal it!!!! randle getting traded after the win doesn't mean anything to us. we won!

and get it right, we run off milk, not mountain dew. oreo built castles with milk as the source of energy. it's very efficient!

don't look now but fred van felton is shooting 34% from the field in his last 8 games. he's still very inconsistent and toronto is just .500. eventually they are going to move him beause they aren't going to win anything soon. in fact, there are a number of toronto fans on their board that already want him traded.

me wanting randle to get resigned was just to win the war officially against the nodopetrumpians! now it's time to blow up the team and go full youth!

[8516knicks]

I'll save future posters the trouble - let's not get a PG if he's not as good as Curry, Let's not get a power forward if he's not as good as Kawhi, let's not get a stretch 5 if he's not as good as Jokic. In short, let's follow the current gameplan of overpaying over the hill vets and ISO head cases - for the next 20 years. The first 20 wasn't enough!

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

There was no need to overpay for a one dimensional scorer who can't play defense. A lot of people hated the Fournier signing when it happened and then tried to rationalize it since there was nothing anyone can do at that moment.

There is a need for a PG though.

It’s not even that they rationalized it. They started to support the move which is different and much worse. We do need a point guard that’s for sure but at this point we are not even close to a championship so anything that marginally makes us better that requires us to give up assets and a lot of cap space doesn’t make sense to me.

I guess if we just want to watch more entertaining basketball than sure but no star player is saying “Hey the Knicks have RJ and Jalen Brunson, I think I want to sign here.” We’d just be doing to try to be a treadmill team.

Exactly, and what’s worse is that Jalen Brunson would only sign here if he had literally no other options for the same money. Players know there’s no future here. They know it’s volatile and can turn nasty on a dime. He’d only come here as a payday and then probably demand a trade like Randle is probably doing as we speak.

But whatever, let’s see how Dolan’s CAA Mafia dream plays out. Can’t wait for those CAA superstars to start banging down the door to Leon’s pork store.

your

(volume of words) / (amount of thought about Brunson that goes into posts)

appears to be tending to infinity.

But I didn't expect the casual kicker.