Does Tom Thibodeau deserve an apology?

[Jalen Bluntson]

Unless we have the two best ISO scorers in the world. We will be easily defended late in the game and in the playoffs. There is not enough creativity to adjust to the talent level of the players or the flow of the game. For more of a team impact as opposed to ISO ISO RINSE REPEAT. Read and react? They all read ISO plays. We don't even run BASIC shyt enough! PnR anyone? Pick and Pop? Anyone?

Love the way he has them play defense though.

[dakomish23]

Depends on whether you went overboard (the other way) to begin with. Same as was the case with Randle.

Fans tend to get carried away with IMO a lot of unrealistic expectations of players and coaches. The same way to basically expect Randle to be Lebron James (basically soloing by himself for team success) was unfair and unrealistic, expecting Thibodeau to take a team that only had Randle as his Lebron James to anything was also unrealistic.

Folks saw what Randle could do in his MIP season and expected that to be the norm regardless of who was (or rather wasn't) on his floor with him. Folks bring up Thibs time with the Bulls and expected that to be the norm regardless of what players he had to coach here (compared to what he had in Chicago). Just as it was unfair and unrealistic to expect Randle to keep single handedly carrying the Knicks to anything, it was unfair and unrealistic to expect Thibs to get a team that had Randle as the only real talent to anything.

There's a reason talent and team building are critical for success in professional sports. If it wasn't every team would be winning right? Why would any team not want to win if talent and team building wasn't important? Up until the additions of Brunson and Hart this team lacked the talent and team to do much of anything. Without more talent and better teammates Randle would have to be prime Lebron and Thibs would have to be Red Auerbach to do what fans demanded that they be able to do. Talking fantasy land not reality.

That's also the reason why you never saw me want to lynch Randle nor chuck Thibs out with the dirty bath water. Both player and coach are very very good but they are not elite elite. So for them to be successful you need to give them help and not expect them to pull miracles out their butt. The Knicks FO (the party that should bear most of the blame) appears to have gotten things right more and more often than they did when they started.

If anything it's the FO that should be getting a good amount of credit for how they are playing now (they got Brunson and they got Hart, adding significant talent and team play) just like they deserved a good amount of the blame when they sucked (by making mind boggling contract offers/signings and head scratching collection followed by punting of draft picks...and not much of anything else).

Sound arguments.

My wishlist at this point is for a) Thibs to actually create functional inbounds plays for the final 2 minutes. b) to make sure Randle is not handling the ball near double teams on big possessions. If we are not going to use Rose, than perhaps we need to call Wall or something just to have a true ball handler in reserve.

It doesn’t have to be something over the top crazy. Something basic like this could work

Watch on YouTube

[HarthorneWingo]

No, but Wingo sure as hell deserves an apology.

I’m waiting …

[gavran]

No, but Wingo sure as hell deserves an apology.

I’m waiting …

Please forgive me.

[HarthorneWingo]

No, but Wingo sure as hell deserves an apology.

I’m waiting …

Please forgive me.

Only a good and just man, a man with integrity, self-awareness and wisdom, knows when to apologize. Thank you, my friend from the central European country with all the hot women. I accept. And I for your forgiveness you too.

[Iron Mantis]

Knicks need a coaching upgrade.

Thibs is not the "promised land" coach, no matter who is on the roster.

In the playoffs where coaches are playing chess, Thibs plays checkers.

Unless Randle and Brunson go super Saiyan in the playoffs, any team with less talent will beat this team by virtue of a better coach simply strategizing (chess) to exploit any weakness, and throwing surprises, knowing Thibs will not adjust..... meanwhile Thibs will play checkers (just give Randle, Brunson, Quick more minutes and iso more) as a blanket strategy on both ends.

And he's absolutely never looking to be the one to be creative and make moves that catch the other team off guard and force them to adjust. He's always 10 steps behind.

Any intelligent coach will exploit Thibs in the playoffs, which is why his playoff record is abysmal.

[Adelheid]

he is a regular season coach; the most adjustment he could do is roster changes and banishments

[KnicksGadfly]

Depends on whether you went overboard (the other way) to begin with. Same as was the case with Randle.

Fans tend to get carried away with IMO a lot of unrealistic expectations of players and coaches. The same way to basically expect Randle to be Lebron James (basically soloing by himself for team success) was unfair and unrealistic, expecting Thibodeau to take a team that only had Randle as his Lebron James to anything was also unrealistic.

Folks saw what Randle could do in his MIP season and expected that to be the norm regardless of who was (or rather wasn't) on his floor with him. Folks bring up Thibs time with the Bulls and expected that to be the norm regardless of what players he had to coach here (compared to what he had in Chicago). Just as it was unfair and unrealistic to expect Randle to keep single handedly carrying the Knicks to anything, it was unfair and unrealistic to expect Thibs to get a team that had Randle as the only real talent to anything.

There's a reason talent and team building are critical for success in professional sports. If it wasn't every team would be winning right? Why would any team not want to win if talent and team building wasn't important? Up until the additions of Brunson and Hart this team lacked the talent and team to do much of anything. Without more talent and better teammates Randle would have to be prime Lebron and Thibs would have to be Red Auerbach to do what fans demanded that they be able to do. Talking fantasy land not reality.

That's also the reason why you never saw me want to lynch Randle nor want to chuck Thibs out with the dirty bath water. Both player and coach are very very good but they are not elite elite. So for them to be successful you need to give them help and not expect them to pull miracles out their butt. The Knicks FO (the party that should bear most of the blame) appears to have gotten things right more and more often than they did when they started. Perspective if what most people (not just fans but people in general) lack.

If anything it's the FO that should be getting a good amount of credit for how they are playing now (they got Brunson and they got Hart, adding significant talent and team play) just like they deserved a good amount of the blame when they sucked (by making mind boggling contract offers/signings and head scratching collection followed by punting of draft picks...and not much of anything else).

So no, nothing really has changed for me.

False narrative. People were primarily upset Randle didn’t work hard last year and had a bad attitude. The inability to admit that also takes away important credit for Randle and the people in his life responsible for his improvement this season. Also a bit weird cause Randle admitted it on his own that he had these issues.

Yeah, it's hard to have a serious conversation when even legitimate criticism of Randle was met with "you're just mad he isn't LeBron, stop complaining."

Unfortunately, this is an issue that's endemic throughout America these days, not just Realgm. If you can't win the argument, attack the facts. Keep spouting your narrative. Don't listen. Find other people to join the echo chamber. Etc.

The thing is, there's no need to make up narratives like this. Randle fixed it and the reason Randle fixed his problems is because he faced up to them and took accountability. That's what a leader does. When the best player on the team is willing to be accountable, then everyone else usually shapes up. That's probably why he gets called sergeant. It's one of the reasons why Tim Duncan was so great.

[FrozenEnvelope]

For the record I consider Thibs a good HC but not an elite HC. There are only like 5 elite HCs, 25 good HCs (Thibs falls somewhere here) and 5 awful HCs. I think Thibs has had seasons where he has coached at an elite level and he has had a very good season but until we can clearly identify an upgrade, he should be here. The positives far outweigh the negatives imo.

I know some point to the playoff record but honestly he has never lost a series he should have won. Let's see how he does against Cleveland.

[BeatDaCavs420]

Hush rob

I mean I’m just asking

We are 42-30 these are good times in otherwise miserable Knicks land

I'm gona try and find my quote the other day about Thibs. Gimme a sec

I'm not saying Thibs doesn't know how to win. I'm saying he's a heavily flawed stubborn coach set in his ways and if he adjusted he could be a lot better and overcome the same hurdles that have stopped him from becoming a great coach when it really matters.

Tell me I'm wrong? U can't point to obvious things like benching an injury riddled Rose on his last legs, or Fournier who is a seive on defense. Those are obvious necessary adjustments that would of gotten him fired had he stayed with his old ways.

Hire an offensive assistant so we can actually see this group run a damn NBA offense. Where's the pick n roll? Pick n pop? Everything is ISO especially at the ends of games like we saw in Boston, Miami. That won't fly in the playoffs and you'll see

First off I come in peace!

But man this is all facts right here! As a bulls fan I've seen it too many times with Good ol Thibs he has a great regular season, but come playoff time the man is a sitting duck, because he refuses to change his ways and make adjustments. I honestly don't see any difference in his style of coaching now than what I saw when he was coaching the bulls. It's super frustrating!

[Jalen Bluntson]

I mean I’m just asking

We are 42-30 these are good times in otherwise miserable Knicks land

I'm gona try and find my quote the other day about Thibs. Gimme a sec

I'm not saying Thibs doesn't know how to win. I'm saying he's a heavily flawed stubborn coach set in his ways and if he adjusted he could be a lot better and overcome the same hurdles that have stopped him from becoming a great coach when it really matters.

Tell me I'm wrong? U can't point to obvious things like benching an injury riddled Rose on his last legs, or Fournier who is a seive on defense. Those are obvious necessary adjustments that would of gotten him fired had he stayed with his old ways.

Hire an offensive assistant so we can actually see this group run a damn NBA offense. Where's the pick n roll? Pick n pop? Everything is ISO especially at the ends of games like we saw in Boston, Miami. That won't fly in the playoffs and you'll see

First off I come in peace!

But man this is all facts right here! As a bulls fan I've seen it too many times with Good ol Thibs he has a great regular season, but come playoff time the man is a sitting duck, because he refuses to change his ways and make adjustments. I honestly don't see any difference in his style of coaching now than what I saw when he was coaching the bulls. It's super frustrating!

Can you posters come get your man's? What's it gonna take to get bearadonisdna reinstated to the Bulls board so we don't have to suffer him anymore? Name your price!!

[G_K_F]

These premature threads are always embarrassing whether everything works out or not.

[BeatDaCavs420]

I'm gona try and find my quote the other day about Thibs. Gimme a sec

I'm not saying Thibs doesn't know how to win. I'm saying he's a heavily flawed stubborn coach set in his ways and if he adjusted he could be a lot better and overcome the same hurdles that have stopped him from becoming a great coach when it really matters.

Tell me I'm wrong? U can't point to obvious things like benching an injury riddled Rose on his last legs, or Fournier who is a seive on defense. Those are obvious necessary adjustments that would of gotten him fired had he stayed with his old ways.

Hire an offensive assistant so we can actually see this group run a damn NBA offense. Where's the pick n roll? Pick n pop? Everything is ISO especially at the ends of games like we saw in Boston, Miami. That won't fly in the playoffs and you'll see

First off I come in peace!

But man this is all facts right here! As a bulls fan I've seen it too many times with Good ol Thibs he has a great regular season, but come playoff time the man is a sitting duck, because he refuses to change his ways and make adjustments. I honestly don't see any difference in his style of coaching now than what I saw when he was coaching the bulls. It's super frustrating!

Can you posters come get your man's? What's it gonna take to get bearadonisdna reinstated to the Bulls board so we don't have to suffer him anymore? Name your price!!

I literally have him on ignore still and I was cracking up seeing him still post here But Sorry buddy no chance he's yall now!

[Jalen Bluntson]

First off I come in peace!

But man this is all facts right here! As a bulls fan I've seen it too many times with Good ol Thibs he has a great regular season, but come playoff time the man is a sitting duck, because he refuses to change his ways and make adjustments. I honestly don't see any difference in his style of coaching now than what I saw when he was coaching the bulls. It's super frustrating!

Can you posters come get your man's? What's it gonna take to get bearadonisdna reinstated to the Bulls board so we don't have to suffer him anymore? Name your price!!

I literally have him on ignore still and I was cracking up seeing him still post here But Sorry buddy no chance he's yall now!

Damn. Can I speak to the manager? There must be something you can do!

[Iron Mantis]

The maker of this wack-a$$ thread needs to be permabanned.

Thibs is hot trash.

[robillionaire]

The maker of this wack-a$$ thread needs to be permabanned.

Thibs is hot trash.

This is my last season here, I’m leaving after it’s over

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Mods, close this thread.

[Iron Mantis]

The maker of this wack-a$$ thread needs to be permabanned.

Thibs is hot trash.

This is my last season here, I’m leaving after it’s over

Seriously? Why?

[Jalen Bluntson]

As much as I have enjoyed this season. Part of me wants to be embarrassed in the playoffs again so they fire Thibs. He is just not a winner. Never has been. Never has been without MVP Rose and, he broke his knees in half.

I'm done with him. He just makes no sense the way he coaches his players and his feel for the game is atrocious. Too much needs improvement. His offensive system is pure garbage. He will not win anything without a superteam and, even then I bet he gets out coached.

I won't actively root for this because I am enjoying the season but, it is my win/win scenario at this point. He needs to go.

[Jalen Bluntson]

The maker of this wack-a$$ thread needs to be permabanned.

Thibs is hot trash.

This is my last season here, I’m leaving after it’s over

Seriously? Why?