NYK roster compared to BOS and PHI

[jvsimonetti0514]

It is kinda funny that Embiid has never really had an 90’s early 2000’s Shaq era of his game. He's always big and out of shape. That’s why “If healthy” is kind of a meaningless qualifier especially when it comes to Embiid. Shams is right that on paper their top 3 is better but when they already have Embiid on injury management and the season hasn’t started yet it doesn’t really matter. If they do keep him upright it will be the first time anyone has pulled of this level of load management cuz hasn’t been successful yet.

it is kind of like what the clippers tried to do with kawhi and the raptors did successfully with him. so i would say it has been done. there's certainly some luck involved. you have to have it be timed right. porzingis was healthy more most of last year but the playoffs came and he missed most of it. they just didn't really need him. that's how good that roster is.

Oh I’m terrified of Boston but that’s a different story. Fair enough about the raptors but he still played 60 games that year. Kawhi already had a finals mvp at that point too and you didn’t need to worry about him getting out of shape. Will Embiid play that many and stay in shape? He's apparently lost weight but that can just be training camp hype.

[3toheadmelo]

I'd rather root for the Brooklyn Nets than watch Giannis shoot free throws for my team.

no

yes

you rather watch ben simm0ns and killian hayes over the great giannis. you deserve hell.

[Chanel Bomber]

no

yes

you rather watch ben simm0ns and killian hayes over the great giannis. you deserve hell.

They don't call me ChaHell for nothing.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Jrue is better than Mikal Bridges

The difference is not as much as you would think. Minimal actually if you base it on stats. Pretty much a wash.

[Clyde_Style]

I think we are looking at it differently OP.
What we should be looking at is matchups, for instance

OG will shut down Tatum, you know he will get that assignment, and on the defensive end OG wins
Mikal will neutralize Brown too, not as much as OG can to Tatum, but still enough
Josh Hart will line up against Jrue, and that is about as good of a defense you can have on jrue
Brunson/ White and KP/ Kat are two matchups defensively for us that are a push

I still think just based on the defensive versatility, Ny is better than Boston

KAT matches us very well vs. KP.

He should be able to limit KP's offensive impact considerably whereas I do not think KP can stop KAT.

[Clyde_Style]

they're washed ? maxey is a younger star than anyone we got and embiid was the mvp last year.

find any list of player rankings from any reputable place and embiid will be the number one player on the list from us or the sixers, brunson will be 2nd and then both maxey & paul george will be next before kat and mikal.

They have two players who choke every year in the playoffs if they are even able to play. Maxey is a great young player. Oubre is decent. Caleb Martin? Not scared at all. The rest of that roster is Lowry/Gordon/Drummond (washed) and what? Yabusele?

Those places are as reputable as this place. We are a better team than Philly. No doubt about it. Propping up Embiid/PG is better done with crutches than praise. In no sane person would suggest Maxey or PG13 better than KAT. :rofl:

every single person who judges these things professionally disagrees with you. all of them.

In that case, you're ESPN and we're not.

We'll take that as a compliment.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Watch on YouTube

They speak on it around 11:00

3 hours and 45 mins of bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo talking about gambling on basketball. the sports gambling epidemic is gonna get so bad.

They use it as a way to frame the discussion, which in and of itself is interesting. I like Russillo, and their segments on the Knicks and Sixers are pretty good. But yeah I'm with you - really not a fan of sports gambling advertising and how it's expanding.

Huge fan of both of them and will probably watch all 4 hours at some point cuz I love listening to them talking about basketball but as someone that grew up through the opioid epidemic I’m seeing a lot of similarities. To not derails the thread any further, I’m rather enjoying Ryen’s Embiid westbrook comparison

[Clyde_Style]

Closet Philly fans in here right now.

Definitely not closeted.

They've even told their parents

[Chanel Bomber]

It is kinda funny that Embiid has never really had an 90’s early 2000’s Shaq era of his game. He's always big and out of shape. That’s why “If healthy” is kind of a meaningless qualifier especially when it comes to Embiid. Shams is right that on paper their top 3 is better but when they already have Embiid on injury management and the season hasn’t started yet it doesn’t really matter. If they do keep him upright it will be the first time anyone has pulled of this level of load management cuz hasn’t been successful yet.

it is kind of like what the clippers tried to do with kawhi and the raptors did successfully with him. so i would say it has been done. there's certainly some luck involved. you have to have it be timed right. porzingis was healthy more most of last year but the playoffs came and he missed most of it. they just didn't really need him. that's how good that roster is.

There have been several examples where the narrative about a player solidified over time to the point where it became almost a collective assumption, until it got proven wrong, and you had to look back at their career in an entirely different light.

Dirk was said to be too soft to win a championship until he won one of the hardest titles ever. LeBron didn't have the "killer instinct" to win a ring. We were told Jokic could never lead the Nuggets to a chip because of his supposedly bad defense or whatever.

Embiid might never be healthy enough to make a deep playoff run. He was culpable in some instances, undermining his health to chase regular-season awards for instance.

But he needs just one break, with a bit of luck (e.g. injuries to other teams, good health on his team, favorable officiating), and he could absolutely win a chip and reverse the narrative around his lack of playoff success.

I don't think it's about him being some playoff midget or being intrinsically unable to stay healthy for the playoffs. He and the Sixers need to be much smarter about his regular-season minutes, and they need some luck along the way.

Obviously it's perfectly fine with me if he never gets past the second round.

[Parraknick]

Jrue is better than Mikal Bridges

The difference is not as much as you would think. Minimal actually if you base it on stats. Pretty much a wash.

Jrue is a playoff God & probably the best intangibles guy there is

[nykballa2k4]

IMO of course...

NYK vs. Boston

Top Dog: Brunson > Tatum
Second Banana: KAT = Brown
Third Wheel: Mikal = Jrue
Fourth Fulcrum: OG = KP
Fifth Starter: Hart < White
Bench: Miles, Precious, Payne = Hortford, Hauser, Pritchard

*These two teams are closer than people think. BOS gets the edge for now due to experience and slight defensive edge

NYK vs. PHI

Top Dog: Brunson > Maxey
Second Banana: KAT = Embiid
Third Wheel: Mikal = PG13
Fourth Fulcrum: OG > Oubre
Fifth Starter: Hart > Martin
Bench: Miles Precious, Payne > Lowry, Gordon, Drummond

*I give the edge to NYK if both teams are healthy. It's close, but we got the edge in overall talent IMO, especially considering PG13's age and Embiid's health.

Agree, disagree?

Match ups make fights.
I like Boston, they have a REALLY good team. With KAT we are right there with them, and we can do something to them that they can't do to us.

We can match their 5-out with Kat
OR
we can go big on them and use PnR to make TatumTots guard KAT.

Philly, similar sauce - KAT vs Embiid could be a problem ... but in the playoffs we could easily have Mitch - KAT vs Embiid and whatever they think is playing (K-Mart jr?).

The Brunson, Bridges, OG is better than Maxey, PG, Ombre.

More worried about the Bucks than I am Philly

[Jalen Bluntson]

Jrue is better than Mikal Bridges

The difference is not as much as you would think. Minimal actually if you base it on stats. Pretty much a wash.

Jrue is a playoff God & probably the best intangibles guy there is

I am not knocking Jrue. I wanted him for years. Just acknowledging that statistically they are not far off from one another at all. I think Jrue was the better player throughout his career but, he is getting older and Mikal is up and coming. One is a PG...the other is SG. Why compare?

These team comparisons need actual context. How do we match up against them? That's the real discussion. Not player rankings. We have three of the best defenders in the league in our starting five, one more on the bench. Mikal/Hart/OG/Deuce. Precious is also a good defender. Cam gets pesky and can hustle on that end as well. Mitch may come back as well. These things matter.

Deuce/Mikal/Hart/OG/Mitch. Who's scoring on that lineup? Even if you replace Mitch with Precious. That's about as good as it has ever been for any team in the league.

Brunson/Deuce/Mikal/OG/KAT. Shooting/scoring from everywhere. Who's containing that? Tough challenge for sure.

I think we match up perfectly against Boston in a tough series. I think we would roast Philly in a series.

Also...we have a bunch of high BBIQ players. That also matters.

[Parraknick]

The difference is not as much as you would think. Minimal actually if you base it on stats. Pretty much a wash.

Jrue is a playoff God & probably the best intangibles guy there is

I am not knocking Jrue. I wanted him for years. Just acknowledging that statistically they are not far off from one another at all. I think Jrue was the better player throughout his career but, he is getting older and Mikal is up and coming. One is a PG...the other is SG. Why compare?

These team comparisons need actual context. How do we match up against them? That's the real discussion. Not player rankings. We have three of the best defenders in the league in our starting five, one more on the bench. Mikal/Hart/OG/Deuce. Precious is also a good defender. Cam gets pesky and can hustle on that end as well. Mitch may come back as well. These things matter.

Deuce/Mikal/Hart/OG/Mitch. Who's scoring on that lineup? Even if you replace Mitch with Precious. That's about as good as it has ever been for any team in the league.

Brunson/Deuce/Mikal/OG/KAT. Shooting/scoring from everywhere. Who's containing that? Tough challenge for sure.

I think we match up perfectly against Boston in a tough series. I think we would roast Philly in a series.

All valid points, this is the first team in forever that we can be confident in. We’ve got an identity, emerging depth and two-way talent.

I just don’t want us to get ahead of ourselves. At this stage we’ve achieved nothing; we cannot compare ourselves to the NBA champs.

But am I happy to go to war with this squad? You bet

[Jalen Bluntson]

Jrue is a playoff God & probably the best intangibles guy there is

I am not knocking Jrue. I wanted him for years. Just acknowledging that statistically they are not far off from one another at all. I think Jrue was the better player throughout his career but, he is getting older and Mikal is up and coming. One is a PG...the other is SG. Why compare?

These team comparisons need actual context. How do we match up against them? That's the real discussion. Not player rankings. We have three of the best defenders in the league in our starting five, one more on the bench. Mikal/Hart/OG/Deuce. Precious is also a good defender. Cam gets pesky and can hustle on that end as well. Mitch may come back as well. These things matter.

Deuce/Mikal/Hart/OG/Mitch. Who's scoring on that lineup? Even if you replace Mitch with Precious. That's about as good as it has ever been for any team in the league.

Brunson/Deuce/Mikal/OG/KAT. Shooting/scoring from everywhere. Who's containing that? Tough challenge for sure.

I think we match up perfectly against Boston in a tough series. I think we would roast Philly in a series.

All valid points, this is the first team in forever that we can be confident in. We’ve got an identity, emerging depth and two-way talent.

I just don’t want us to get ahead of ourselves. At this stage we’ve achieved nothing; we cannot compare ourselves to the NBA champs.

But am I happy to go to war with this squad? You bet

We can't compare? Huh? You lost me.

[Parraknick]

I am not knocking Jrue. I wanted him for years. Just acknowledging that statistically they are not far off from one another at all. I think Jrue was the better player throughout his career but, he is getting older and Mikal is up and coming. One is a PG...the other is SG. Why compare?

These team comparisons need actual context. How do we match up against them? That's the real discussion. Not player rankings. We have three of the best defenders in the league in our starting five, one more on the bench. Mikal/Hart/OG/Deuce. Precious is also a good defender. Cam gets pesky and can hustle on that end as well. Mitch may come back as well. These things matter.

Deuce/Mikal/Hart/OG/Mitch. Who's scoring on that lineup? Even if you replace Mitch with Precious. That's about as good as it has ever been for any team in the league.

Brunson/Deuce/Mikal/OG/KAT. Shooting/scoring from everywhere. Who's containing that? Tough challenge for sure.

I think we match up perfectly against Boston in a tough series. I think we would roast Philly in a series.

All valid points, this is the first team in forever that we can be confident in. We’ve got an identity, emerging depth and two-way talent.

I just don’t want us to get ahead of ourselves. At this stage we’ve achieved nothing; we cannot compare ourselves to the NBA champs.

But am I happy to go to war with this squad? You bet

We can't compare? Huh? You lost me.

I mean it as a figure of speech. Anyway, all good

[Jalen Bluntson]

All valid points, this is the first team in forever that we can be confident in. We’ve got an identity, emerging depth and two-way talent.

I just don’t want us to get ahead of ourselves. At this stage we’ve achieved nothing; we cannot compare ourselves to the NBA champs.

But am I happy to go to war with this squad? You bet

We can't compare? Huh? You lost me.

I mean it as a figure of speech. Anyway, all good

Oh yeah. Figuratively they are the team to beat for sure. We have to prove we can. Those are actually facts as well. I am juggling Mets/Liberty at the same time so, I didn't get your meaning. LFGK!

[RHODEY]

Jrue is better than Mikal Bridges

The difference is not as much as you would think. Minimal actually if you base it on stats. Pretty much a wash.

I don't think he's better at all...and certainly not at 34 years of age.

[RHODEY]

Jrue is a playoff God & probably the best intangibles guy there is

I am not knocking Jrue. I wanted him for years. Just acknowledging that statistically they are not far off from one another at all. I think Jrue was the better player throughout his career but, he is getting older and Mikal is up and coming. One is a PG...the other is SG. Why compare?

These team comparisons need actual context. How do we match up against them? That's the real discussion. Not player rankings. We have three of the best defenders in the league in our starting five, one more on the bench. Mikal/Hart/OG/Deuce. Precious is also a good defender. Cam gets pesky and can hustle on that end as well. Mitch may come back as well. These things matter.

Deuce/Mikal/Hart/OG/Mitch. Who's scoring on that lineup? Even if you replace Mitch with Precious. That's about as good as it has ever been for any team in the league.

Brunson/Deuce/Mikal/OG/KAT. Shooting/scoring from everywhere. Who's containing that? Tough challenge for sure.

I think we match up perfectly against Boston in a tough series. I think we would roast Philly in a series.

All valid points, this is the first team in forever that we can be confident in. We’ve got an identity, emerging depth and two-way talent.

I just don’t want us to get ahead of ourselves. At this stage we’ve achieved nothing; we cannot compare ourselves to the NBA champs.

But am I happy to go to war with this squad? You bet

Respect is good, submission isn't.Riley and Vangundy coached those Knicks teams to believe they could beat the Jordan Bulls and we played them like they believed. These Celtics were never tested the way we tested Jordans Bulls....and they aren't Jordans Bulls..we certainly have the talent to beat them ...we just have to believe it.

[jvsimonetti0514]

It is kinda funny that Embiid has never really had an 90’s early 2000’s Shaq era of his game. He's always big and out of shape. That’s why “If healthy” is kind of a meaningless qualifier especially when it comes to Embiid. Shams is right that on paper their top 3 is better but when they already have Embiid on injury management and the season hasn’t started yet it doesn’t really matter. If they do keep him upright it will be the first time anyone has pulled of this level of load management cuz hasn’t been successful yet.

it is kind of like what the clippers tried to do with kawhi and the raptors did successfully with him. so i would say it has been done. there's certainly some luck involved. you have to have it be timed right. porzingis was healthy more most of last year but the playoffs came and he missed most of it. they just didn't really need him. that's how good that roster is.

There have been several examples where the narrative about a player solidified over time to the point where it became almost a collective assumption, until it got proven wrong, and you had to look back at their career in an entirely different light.

Dirk was said to be too soft to win a championship until he won one of the hardest titles ever. LeBron didn't have the "killer instinct" to win a ring. We were told Jokic could never lead the Nuggets to a chip because of his supposedly bad defense or whatever.

Embiid might never be healthy enough to make a deep playoff run. He was culpable in some instances, undermining his health to chase regular-season awards for instance.

But he needs just one break, with a bit of luck (e.g. injuries to other teams, good health on his team, favorable officiating), and he could absolutely win a chip and reverse the narrative around his lack of playoff success.

I don't think it's about him being some playoff midget or being intrinsically unable to stay healthy for the playoffs. He and the Sixers need to be much smarter about his regular-season minutes, and they need some luck along the way.

Obviously it's perfectly fine with me if he never gets past the second round.

I just don’t think Embiid injury history is a media narrative in the same way dirk not being tough enough was. You can actually measure Embiid injury history unlike lebron’s killer instinct. Jokic can work on his defense, guys with injuries are something that usually don’t get better.

[Parraknick]

I am not knocking Jrue. I wanted him for years. Just acknowledging that statistically they are not far off from one another at all. I think Jrue was the better player throughout his career but, he is getting older and Mikal is up and coming. One is a PG...the other is SG. Why compare?

These team comparisons need actual context. How do we match up against them? That's the real discussion. Not player rankings. We have three of the best defenders in the league in our starting five, one more on the bench. Mikal/Hart/OG/Deuce. Precious is also a good defender. Cam gets pesky and can hustle on that end as well. Mitch may come back as well. These things matter.

Deuce/Mikal/Hart/OG/Mitch. Who's scoring on that lineup? Even if you replace Mitch with Precious. That's about as good as it has ever been for any team in the league.

Brunson/Deuce/Mikal/OG/KAT. Shooting/scoring from everywhere. Who's containing that? Tough challenge for sure.

I think we match up perfectly against Boston in a tough series. I think we would roast Philly in a series.

All valid points, this is the first team in forever that we can be confident in. We’ve got an identity, emerging depth and two-way talent.

I just don’t want us to get ahead of ourselves. At this stage we’ve achieved nothing; we cannot compare ourselves to the NBA champs.

But am I happy to go to war with this squad? You bet

Respect is good, submission isn't.Riley and Vangundy coached those Knicks teams to believe they could beat the Jordan Bulls and we played them like they believed. These Celtics were never tested the way we tested Jordans Bulls....and they aren't Jordans Bulls..we certainly have the talent to beat them ...we just have to believe it.

I think we are expressing similar thoughts in different ways. I want every guy on our team knowing that they can beat anyone on any given night.

Should we be scared of Boston? Nah… you’re right, they’re no super team.

To avoid any semblance of complacency, the team needs to take it 1 game at a time though