Knicks Clippers PG: Never again

[Gravy]

i’m not gonna lie… i might even take rj over mikal right now..

They are more similar than I have enjoyed watching now that you mention it lol. Divo was the anti-RJ/Mikal

It made way more sense to run it back with Randle and Donte and use some assets to get a C instead of wasting all of them on KAT and Mikal.

I'll give it another year when they are hopefully healthy and have played together for a while but running it back with another center is starting to look like it was a decent option.

[Capn'O]

Josh needs to start shooting again. This is not acceptable from a vet.

[Gravy]

Good thing the Knicks were without the selfish Jalen Brunson. Offense runs like a well oiled machine without his toxic me first play!

Knicks fans been complaining about iso since the Melo and Ewing days. They want a team of scrappy Tyler Koleks and Franks passing the ball around the perimeter for infinity!

Do you think this team would look better with prime Chris Paul or prime Jalen Brunson?

They are both great players. Not sure what your point is, we dont have anyone that can be anywhere close to Chris Paul's playmaking.

[DaGawd]

Josh needs to start shooting again. This is not acceptable from a vet.

or bring his ass off the bench, thibs refuses to adjust to what’s happening out there on the nightly basis

[Wildcat]

Randle has a lot of gravity just like a black hole

That black hole is 9-0 in his last 9 games. You must be thrilled that we traded him so we can be extra mid this year.

since you love plus minus, Randle is only positive in 4 of those games.

Only thing it tells me is +/- isn't the only stat someone should look at. T-Wolves are grooving with that current starting lineup.

[god shammgod]

It’s a poorly put together roster. Too many bad defenders, not enough shooting, not enough playmakers, multiple guys playing out of position. It was obvious before the season started this wasn’t going to be what people expected. But y’all never listen. Even worse you respond belligerently. What can you do. I’m pretty sick of trying to talk sense around here. I guess I’ll have to continue to just hate you all.

[JayTWill]

Knicks fans been complaining about iso since the Melo and Ewing days. They want a team of scrappy Tyler Koleks and Franks passing the ball around the perimeter for infinity!

Do you think this team would look better with prime Chris Paul or prime Jalen Brunson?

They are both great players. Not sure what your point is, we dont have anyone that can be anywhere close to Chris Paul's playmaking.

Just wondering if you thought this team could look better with a point guard that is more of a natural playmaker that can score rather than more of a natural scorer. Prime Chris Paul may have been too high of a standard. What about older Chris Paul that helped OKC get to the playoffs or the Suns to the finals?

Brunson has been a game changer but it is still fair to be critical of how much he dominates the ball looking for his own offense. Sometimes it is the only option but I still feel like he could do a better job of involving his teammates within the flow of the game.

[3toheadmelo]

since you love plus minus, Randle is only positive in 4 of those games.

Since you love winning records, they’re 9-0.

Randle - 52 games played, 31-21 (.596) +114 (+237 in wins) -.02 on/off
Kat - 56 games played, 37-19 (.660) +286 (+510 in wins) +5.61 on/off

knicks are only +.82 net rating when Kat isn't on the floor compared to +6.43 when he's on.
meanwhile wolves are +3.60 when randle isn't on the floor and +3.58 when he is.

And yet the Timberwolves are undefeated in their last 9 games with Randle. How come they weren't winning games without him? Couldn't even beat Utah

And KAT is literally the worst defensive big man in the league. He literally makes Randle look like AD on defense. Sad

Going back to those games against top-10 offenses, Towns has allowed opponents in those games to shoot 63% from the field -- ranking 346th out of 346 players to contest at least 50 shots against those teams, per ESPN Research.

On layups and dunks in those games, Towns is allowing 70% shooting -- and opponents are shooting 60% overall on layups and dunks against him, which is the worst mark of any player to contest at least 300 of them.

[HerSports85]

That black hole is 9-0 in his last 9 games. You must be thrilled that we traded him so we can be extra mid this year.

since you love plus minus, Randle is only positive in 4 of those games.

Since you love winning records, they’re 9-0.

Both of you can have this discussion in another thread.

[3toheadmelo]

They are more similar than I have enjoyed watching now that you mention it lol. Divo was the anti-RJ/Mikal

It made way more sense to run it back with Randle and Donte and use some assets to get a C instead of wasting all of them on KAT and Mikal.

I'll give it another year when they are hopefully healthy and have played together for a while but running it back with another center is starting to look like it was a decent option.

The only thing saving this team is Mitchell Robinson being healthy (or getting a dominant defensive C) and trading away Mikal for a secondary creator.

[3toheadmelo]

It’s a poorly put together roster. Too many bad defenders, not enough shooting, not enough playmakers, multiple guys playing out of position. It was obvious before the season started this wasn’t going to be what people expected. But y’all never listen. Even worse you respond belligerently. What can you do. I’m pretty sick of trying to talk sense around here. I guess I’ll have to continue to just hate you all.

They come at us hastily when we try to talk sense into them

It's going to be hilarious when we fire Thibs and we're still mid.

[kNicksGmen]

Since you love winning records, they’re 9-0.

Randle - 52 games played, 31-21 (.596) +114 (+237 in wins) -.02 on/off
Kat - 56 games played, 37-19 (.660) +286 (+510 in wins) +5.61 on/off

knicks are only +.82 net rating when Kat isn't on the floor compared to +6.43 when he's on.
meanwhile wolves are +3.60 when randle isn't on the floor and +3.58 when he is.

And yet the Timberwolves are undefeated in their last 9 games with Randle. How come they weren't winning games without him? Couldn't even beat Utah

And KAT is literally the worst defensive big man in the league. He literally makes Randle look like AD on defense. Sad

Going back to those games against top-10 offenses, Towns has allowed opponents in those games to shoot 63% from the field -- ranking 346th out of 346 players to contest at least 50 shots against those teams, per ESPN Research.

On layups and dunks in those games, Towns is allowing 70% shooting -- and opponents are shooting 60% overall on layups and dunks against him, which is the worst mark of any player to contest at least 300 of them.

wolves are 5-8 without randle with 4 of those losses being by 2 points or less. wins of +19, +13, +16, +15 and +3. wins against OKC twice, HOU and POR.

knicks are 3-4 without Kat, losses by 9, 9, 17 and 12. wins of +2, +6 and +6 against 2 of the worst teams in the league nets and philly 2x.

anyways who cares. the wolves are good with or without randle. we are seemingly mid with Kat and horrible without him.

[god shammgod]

It’s a poorly put together roster. Too many bad defenders, not enough shooting, not enough playmakers, multiple guys playing out of position. It was obvious before the season started this wasn’t going to be what people expected. But y’all never listen. Even worse you respond belligerently. What can you do. I’m pretty sick of trying to talk sense around here. I guess I’ll have to continue to just hate you all.

They come at us hastily when we try to talk sense into them

It's going to be hilarious when we fire Thibs and we're still mid.

kat is almost 30, he's had multiple coaches, none of them could get him to anchor a defense. it's not possible. that should have been obvious before this year started.

mikal is a role player. he's had multiple coaches. he was able to look like a real offensive option for less than half a season in his career. that was the only time he ever averaged above 20 points in his career. the very next year instead of staying aggressive he gave up his number 1 spot on offense to a hungry little chucking munchkin who had more heart than him.

so what the f*ck does any of this have to do with coaching.

[god shammgod]

p.s. josh hart, who i really like a lot, loses the ability and desire to shoot jumpers for half a season just about every year of his career. no coach has been able to fix that.

[Gravy]

Do you think this team would look better with prime Chris Paul or prime Jalen Brunson?

They are both great players. Not sure what your point is, we dont have anyone that can be anywhere close to Chris Paul's playmaking.

Just wondering if you thought this team could look better with a point guard that is more of a natural playmaker that can score rather than more of a natural scorer. Prime Chris Paul may have been too high of a standard. What about older Chris Paul that helped OKC get to the playoffs or the Suns to the finals?

Brunson has been a game changer but it is still fair to be critical of how much he dominates the ball looking for his own offense. Sometimes it is the only option but I still feel like he could do a better job of involving his teammates within the flow of the game.

I'd rather have Magic but we can only compare JB to pgs in the league now. Many of the good young ones are scorers too, Lamelo, Maxey, Fox, Trae... I'd take Brunson with his faults over all of them except SGA

[NoDopeOnSundays]

p.s. josh hart, who i really like a lot, loses the ability and desire to shoot jumpers for half a season just about every year of his career. no coach has been able to fix that.

So, don't play the guy in the last seconds of a game if he's not going to shoot, this isn't string theory.

Why even have a coach, if nothing is his fault, then nothing positive should be attributed to him either.

[spree8]

It’s a poorly put together roster. Too many bad defenders, not enough shooting, not enough playmakers, multiple guys playing out of position. It was obvious before the season started this wasn’t going to be what people expected. But y’all never listen. Even worse you respond belligerently. What can you do. I’m pretty sick of trying to talk sense around here. I guess I’ll have to continue to just hate you all.

They come at us hastily when we try to talk sense into them

It's going to be hilarious when we fire Thibs and we're still mid.

kat is almost 30, he's had multiple coaches, none of them could get him to anchor a defense. it's not possible. that should have been obvious before this year started.

mikal is a role player. he's had multiple coaches. he was able to look like a 1st option for less than half a season in his career. that was the only time he ever averaged above 20 points in his career. the very next year instead of staying aggressive he gave up his number 1 spot on offense to a hungry little chucking munchkin who had more heart than him.

so what the f*ck does any of this have to do with coaching.

iight, lemme ask you this. You think we’d be in a better position to contend if…

1: KAT wasn’t used in drop coverage

2: Mikal wasn’t used at POA

3: Deuce started at POA

4: Hart was 6th man since we have no wings off the bench

5: Our starters didn’t play so many mins (KAT/Hart overused knees)

6: The lineups were staggered better (more touches for starters)

7: We used Mikal in more p&r as the ball handler

8: KAT played more p&r with both Brunson and Mikal

9: Had KAT come off screens more as our best 3pt shooter (Hart screener)

10: Switched a lot more on defense (KAT+JB proven to be solid 1v1)

11: We didn’t have so many guys going for ORB’s=poor transition D

12: Took a lot more 3 pointers

13: Defended the 3 better (switching allows this)


If the answer is yes to all of them (as it should be) then how is that not all on the coach?


Nobody is saying Mikal is Durant or Melo or Kobe. But he’s shown enough to be a legit 3rd or 4th option here if used correctly. He’s being set up to fail on both ends (POA, chasing small guards thru the most amounts of screens playing 40mpg and on the other end being stuck in the corner playing 4th-5th fiddle and not given chances to play to his strengths. Cam Thomas is a ball hogging low IQ chucker, I wouldn’t say he’s got more heart either.

If these changes were made and the team still didn’t do well or the players still didn’t in their roles, then by all means, hate on or trade them. Until then tho… change the coach.

[god shammgod]

p.s. josh hart, who i really like a lot, loses the ability and desire to shoot jumpers for half a season just about every year of his career. no coach has been able to fix that.

So, don't play the guy in the last seconds of a game if he's not going to shoot, this isn't string theory.

Why even have a coach, if nothing is his fault, then nothing positive should be attributed to him either.

i guess because he's the guy who will most likely get the rebound if you miss. and at least you know he's gonna play with max effort.

there are legit complaints about thibs. the minutes for guys without a doubt. but some of this stuff is beyond his control.

[8516knicks]

liked what I saw from bridges was a plus

KAT/OG/Deuce shot a combined 14 for 49 from the field...ooof

Precious and Hart did what they do.

The Payne/Shamet duo is rough.

Hart with 20 f*ck*n rebounds deserves special mention despite the loss. Guy is what, 6'5"?

[Reign23]

(btw to add a little context to this Randle bs: of this mentioned 9-0 stretch they are with him, only one(!) team that they played is currently above .500)