The Official 101 Thread: Offseason, Cap etc

[30andoverclub]

Thank you for the info, hoopdata. I forgot about the BYC rule...

However, if both Bosh and Amare opt out, Toronto and Phoenix should both be under the cap. But not enough to sign David to a good deal. Would that help in a BYC situation? If, for example, Toronto is $5-6M under the cap?

And what about a bonus? Could you start David at $8.4M, but include a bonus to get his trade value up without the BYC kicking in? All of this interests me as this would seem to be the absolutely best scenario for the Knicks, that is, if it's possible. 2 maxes plus $6M or so to spend on supporting players. Thanks again.

[Mecca]

Dream Team.

PG: Mayo/Sergio/Giddens
SG: T-Mac/Scheyer/Giddens
SF: LeBron/Harris/Walker
PF: Gallo/Dorsey
C: Bosh/Camby

Trade:
OJ Mayo for Wilson Chandler and Toney Douglas

Sign:
T-Mac at vet. min. for 2 years.
LeBron and Bosh for a max each.
Sign Marcus Camby for 2 years, 6 million.
Sign (LLE) Joey Dorsey.
Renounce Sergio, Walker, and Giddens.

Draft:
Jon Scheyer and Manny Harris with both 2nd round picks.

Buyout:
Eddy Curry.

[FutureKnicksGM]

Personally...if he signs one real good young player this offseason, and then gets someone like Melo in 2011...I'll be happy even if we surrendered a high draft pick.

So you would be happy he surrendered Hill and picks even though he could have done exactly what you wanted (a young player and Melo next year) without trading Hill or the picks?


Anyway thanks for the info hoopsdata, i didn't know Lee would be BYC again. Could you tell me if we sign and traded Lee, what would be the best deal Lee could get(without being a BYC contract)? I'm assuming it would start at $8.4 million and be 6 years long, with 10.5% raises. Is that correct?

[hoopdata]

Dream Team.

PG: Mayo/Sergio/Giddens
SG: T-Mac/Scheyer/Giddens
SF: LeBron/Harris/Walker
PF: Gallo/Dorsey
C: Bosh/Camby

Trade:
OJ Mayo for Wilson Chandler and Toney Douglas

Sign:
T-Mac at vet. min. for 2 years.
LeBron and Bosh for a max each.
Sign Marcus Camby for 2 years, 6 million.
Sign (LLE) Joey Dorsey.
Renounce Sergio, Walker, and Giddens.

Draft:
Jon Scheyer and Manny Harris with both 2nd round picks.

Buyout:
Eddy Curry.

No LLE allowed. No MLE allowed (assuming that's what you're trying to use to sign Camby, as the Knicks don't have the money for that. They need to buy someone out to get the money to sign two maxes. Anything more than that is impossible unless it's the vet minimum.

[sol537]

Raja Bell
Coming off an injury year so his market value is low. If healthy, he'd be a great role-playing SG who can knock down the three at a high percentage and who loves playing for D'antoni. Would be a nice 6th man. All these guys are free agents next year, btw.

Luke Ridnour
Serviceable PG either as a back-up or a potential starter. Earned over $6 million but won't probably get offers more than $3 or $4 million. If he's left dangling, he may accept a low ball offer.

Sasha Pavlovic
A SG/SF hybrid who provides lots of energy. Market value is around $1 to $2 million. Used to playing with a star like Lebron.

Etan Thomas
I dunno but I always liked this cat. He's been overpaid severely the last few years, but I think he could be had for cheap $ since he's not getting much burn in OKC. He's a NY guy and tough as nails. Could be a nice role-player if we bring in Oakley to work with him.

Louis Amundson
Nice hustle big man off the bench. Has some potential. Good role player. Likely to come cheap.

Marcus Camby
Would he give us a discount? He's getting old, but can still ball. Would be a solid role player off the bench or starting. One of those veteran guys every good team needs. Again, his value may be too much for us to afford, however.

Mike Miller
This guy is getting lost in the shuffle in Washington. I like his game and I think he can be had for a reasonable contract. Someone to keep an eye on.

My hope is that we can get one Max guy (Lebron) and maybe one below Max guy like Joe Johnson so that we can sign a third solid role-player. And then maybe we can grab 2 or 3 guys from this list on the cheap for the Vet minimum. Then we'd have some 2nd rounders to work with as well.

[kasino]

naw go after the 2 max contracts(lebron and Wade/Bosh/Amare/Joe)
start Gallo and Chandler we can win any game once we get a center.

[JimmyDolan]

Say the Knicks buy a mid to late #1 pick in the 2010 draft. Does that player count against the cap(using the rookie scale)before he signs a contract since first round picks receive guaranteed contracts?

[TwelvePac]

IMO you can add Kurt Thomas to that list. He would be a great fit here and already has experience playing for D'Antoni.

[j4remi]

Brad Miller + this system = nice cheap big on a 2 yr deal.

[Knicksick]

We definitely need a real presence at Center. Someone to get 10 rebounds and 2 blocks at least. We might be able to pick it up with Eddy's expiring. Other than that I love Raja Bell--he'd be great if he'd agree to a minimum contract.

House,Bell off the bench is terrific shooting,scrappy play---very nice.

[Knicksick]

BTW no way Mike Miller signs for a minimum contract. I picture he can still get 4mill. a year which makes it difficult for us to get him.

[hoopdata]

Say the Knicks buy a mid to late #1 pick in the 2010 draft. Does that player count against the cap(using the rookie scale)before he signs a contract since first round picks receive guaranteed contracts?

Yes. Depending on how mid to late it is, it'll be in the 800k-1.5mil range for the cap hold, but it'll be replacing a 470k caphold, so it'd actually only be an additional 300k-1mil or so counted against the cap. Considering the Knicks already need to clear a good 1.2million through some kind of creative maneuvering with Curry's contract and/or one of their other three players (Chandler, Gallo, Toney) in order to offer two max deals, adding a first round pick would probably just about seal the deal for us not being able to offer two maxes.

On the other hand, we could buy 10 second round picks in this draft and it wouldn't affect our bottom line by a cent, because they're not guaranteed and they'd be getting signed to contracts equal to the minimum cap hold (470k for the first year) anyway. The Knicks' best chance of fortifying this roster for the long term is going on a spending spree for second round picks this year, buying a ton to both stack the roster with (we're going to likely have 10 minimum contract players on the roster in our ideal scenario) and to stash overseas to develop for the future, as our avenues for adding talent down the road are severely limited given our lack of first round picks and because the status of cap exceptions like the MLE/LLE are in doubt with the upcoming CBA negotiations.

[next2spike]

Wrong thread - continue.

[Fire AnDice]

I'm not worried about filling the roster. We have two second round picks,Douglas,Gallo,Chandler--that's about 5 players on cheap contracts and it is also good value. IMO Gallo and Chandler are ideal 3rd and 4th options. Both are getting 15/5 this season and are bound to improve further. If we are lucky enough to get two Max FAs then all you need is like 3 decent rotation players that can stay healthy.

We also have David Lee as possible sign and trade candidate but more important we'll have Curry's expiring contract which could easily net us 1 or 2 decent rotation players on longterm contract.

We certainly aren't gonna have a deep ass team if we sign two max FAs but we'll still be able to get a good 8man rotation.

Don't leave out the guys that get attracted by a title contending NY team (like Camby for example).There will be opportunities once we sign two Max Fas.

The thing I'm worried about is getting those two guys. Once we have them everything else will fall into place.

Maybe you can add TMac and Sergio to that list. Maybe House also for the Minimum?

Camby/2nd Rounder (Minimum)
Bosh/Gallo
LBJ/Chandler
TMac/House
Sergio/Douglas

[30andoverclub]

hoopdata, can you please take a look at my question regarding Lee's BYC considerations if we assume the Raptors and/or Suns would be under the cap?

Also, if Lee gets a great offer and decides to leave, we could do a courtesy sign and trade so that we at least net a trade exception. Would we need to waive the trade exception if we're still under the cap? Or could we keep it and use it after our cap space is gone? Thanks!

As respects trading Curry's expiring contract, I wonder if the Warriors wouldn't be willing to trade for him purely to save money? There's a lot of talk that the Warrior's are up for sale. Curry for Biedrins and Turiaf would save them a ton of money while giving us a lot more size in our front court. Of course, you wouldn't look to make a move like this unless you brought in a max contract or two.

A LeBron, Bosh, Biedrins, Gallo, Turiaf front court would be pretty formidable...

[hoopdata]

Trade exceptions count against your cap space. All exceptions do. Everything has a cap hold except for second round picks, pretty much (which is how teams continue to stash them overseas in abundance).

As for Lee and the BYC thing, it would make it easier for Toronto/Phoenix if they have 5-6million in cap space, because they could absorb more of that incoming blow. You're right, that does make it more feasible. The problem with this, though, is that in order for us to reap the benefits of a sign-and-trade by using Lee's cap hold to go over the cap with a sign-and-trade is that we need to make all our other signings before completing the sign-and-trade. If we send Lee's cap hold of 10.5 million for a max contract, as soon as the deal is done, the new 16.6 million deal replaces Lee's 10.5 million. Only if we sign everyone beforehand would it make it worthwhile for us to pursue that. That's a lot of moving parts while dealing with two teams that probably won't want to do us many favors, so it may be tough to get all those ducks in a row.

On Golden State, first of all, we need to free up cash to sign two maxes, meaning we either need to buy out Curry, trade Curry for a smaller figure in 2010, or trade one of Chandler/Gallo for something without a cap hold (i.e. future first). Trading Curry for MORE money in 2010 would end any chance we had at two maxes, unless we got lucky with a Lee S&T to a team mildly under the cap that could absorb the BYC. Again, that's a lot of ducks to get in a row and a big risk if it doesn't work out, which it likely wouldn't.

Biedrins/Turiaf make about 3million more than Curry, so that doesn't help us, while Biedrins is actually a good player, making it hard for Golden State to make that deal. On the other hand, Maggette makes about 2million less than Curry (which would put us comfortably into max range), his contract goes 2 years beyond Curry's, and he's selfish and completely averse to playing defense, while having one of the most untradeable contracts in the league. That's a transaction we could possibly pursue, and I think works well for both teams. Other guys with awful long-term deals but make less than Curry in 2010 are Posey, Diop, Maxiell, Nocioni, and Najera/Carroll. Those could all be options for taking on money in 2011/2012 but saving in 2010, getting us in max range.

[crazybranman360]

can we get Michael Redd? What if we did a sign and trade with Lee + Curry's contract for Michael Redd?

[bringinhinkie]

can we get Michael Redd? What if we did a sign and trade with Lee + Curry's contract for Michael Redd?

and lose 7mill in capspace? for a guy whose career as we knew it could be over?

[hoopdata]

can we get Michael Redd? What if we did a sign and trade with Lee + Curry's contract for Michael Redd?

That would hurt our cap space situation AND give away David Lee. Not incredibly wise. However, what we could potentially try to do is trade Curry for Redd straight up (yielding Milwaukee 7million in cap savings next season), and getting us a player without using too much of our cap space.

How it would work is as follows. With an 11.3 cap figure next season, Curry can take back 125% +$100,000 in a trade, meaning he can bring back about 14.2million in salary. Since Redd is 18.3million, we'd need to have just 4.1million in cap space available to perform the 1-for-1 swap.

Going off a 53million cap figure, we would have about 31.5million to start the offseason. After signing a 16.6million max player, we'd be down to about 15.4million in cap space, as we'd recoup one 473k roster spot hold. If we hold onto 4.1million of that space to do the Curry-for-Redd swap (we'd need to do this LAST in the offseason because we're going to be going about 3.1million over the cap when it's all said and done), that leaves us 11.3million to spend on a free agent, or 11.8million to spend on two free agents (again, after signing a free agent, we recoup a 473k roster cap hold, so we get to spend a little bit more if we go after two guys).

So one example under this scenario would be spending 16.6mil on Lebron, 9mil on Lee, 2.8mil on Tracy, and saving 4.1mil for the Curry-for-Redd swap.

Is it the Knicks' best option? Probably not, but there is some merit to going this route, especially if all the max guys start getting gobbled up elsewhere. Bringing in Redd as a supporting player (for just 4.1million of the team's cap space, for all intents and purposes) wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but I wouldn't rely on him to be any kind of focal point (third offensive option at BEST, in my opinion).

[kosmovitelli]

In the chart it says our contracts plus cap holds for the rest of the roster equals 19,501,847 for next year. Under a projected $51 million you say this would leave us with $29,556,391. However, $51 mill minus $19,501,847 equals $31,498,153, a difference of $1,941,762 from your number. This difference is the same for every cap space projection you have.

Am I missing something here or are your numbers off?

The numbers are correct except the total salaries. It's not $19,501,847 but $21,443,609.
I edited my previous post to correct the amount.