MeloDrama Part V

[suicidedeuce]

There has got to be a happy medium, that is a silly trade, but so is the proposed trade on this board of 3 1st rounders, mirotic & mcdermott. That would be an unprecedented trade for a free agent. Can anyone put together a reasonable trade proposal?

That's the inherent problem with fans trades and why they by rule always suck.

There is no "happy medium" in a circumstance when one party doesn't want to participate in the trade.

Can can't walk up to someone's house that isn't for sale and offer them the market price for a house that in that neighborhood. Part of the your offer has to the extra incentive to sell.

Knicks would

1.) Prefer to keep Melo.
2.) Let him walk for nothing rather than help the Bulls and get back a token return.
3.) S&T with Bulls.

So any Bulls offer has to reconfigure those preferences.

Your fanbase has been trying the "but it's better than nothing" argument for weeks. You're not going to find any takers.

You want to receptive audience, then you have to propose something "unprecedented."

[Workforce250]

Tell them this.. bring in Minnesota and we want 2 unprotective picks,, Taj and Love. Or else fuggetabouTit.
it will cause mas confusion on the Bulls board.

[Thugger HBC]

The Bulls do not have enough to get a deal done, it's just that simple.

Unknowns and hype dont cut it, neither do low picks, and certainly not a pick that might not even ever translate into a first rounder.

Boozer is an amnesty candidate, no one trades for those, and the one who did got fired.

Bulls fans need to get a dose of reality, look at their roster beyond Noah, and understand those other pieces do not get Melo.

Get a third team involved that has something worthwhile.....all those trades are garbage, every single one.

[IrishBeatdown]

Bulls board got me dying

There has got to be a happy medium, that is a silly trade, but so is the proposed trade on this board of 3 1st rounders, mirotic & mcdermott. That would be an unprecedented trade for a free agent. Can anyone put together a reasonable trade proposal? If we wanted to trade three firsts and two first round prospects, getting back a **** sandwich like JR, we'd just trade for Love, who is a better player than Melo anyways and would come cheaper moneywise.

Probably will be moot once NYK signs Melo anyhow.

I'd personally be fine with Niko in additon to two 1st rounders for Melo.

If you want us to take Boozer back that would, of course, demand some additional incentives. I don't see why it wouldn't.

But if it turns out that you guys need a sign and trade to get Melo, I don't see why we don't hold out for as many assets as possible. There's no incentive for us to sign and trade him to you guys for a crappy return. We'd rather keep him for ourselves or let him walk out West to LA for nothing.

Lets be honest, NYK would S&T him for a first rounder if it came down to it, if it doesn't involve taking on Boozer, Phil isn't going to turn down assets out of pride.

That assumes, however, that Chicago can clear the cap room to sign him outright, which is problematic and I can't see them doing. Chicago would give up a decent return in a S&T for this reason, because any deal with a third team to dump Boozer would require assets as well.

I don't see Chicago wanting to give up more than Mirotic and two firsts, and that includes getting rid of Boozer in the package. I'm really not sure what Utah would want to dump Boozer on them, likely two firsts. For this reason, I think Utah is a likelier trade partner for Chicago to clear cap. NYK will rightly demand more assets, and Chicago will rightly balk at the asking price.

Say what you will about the situation, but I believe the S&T has already been talked about between the Bulls and NY. I base this on the ridiculous LAL rumors, there is no way Melo wants to go there, just a bunch of made up crap to facilitate a trade to the rockets or bulls. Unfortunately for the Bulls, I still think there is too many roadblocks to the situation, and ultimately it is easy for Melo to re-sign with NY.

[Tron Carter]

The Bulls do not have enough to get a deal done, it's just that simple.

Unknowns and hype dont cut it, neither do low picks, and certainly not a pick that might not even ever translate into a first rounder.

Boozer is an amnesty candidate, no one trades for those, and the one who did got fired.

Bulls fans need to get a dose of reality, look at their roster beyond Noah, and understand those other pieces do not get Melo.

Get a third team involved that has something worthwhile.....all those trades are garbage, every single one.

this should just be an automated response to the dump truck of **** trade scenarios that has plagued our board for the past 5 threads now.

[god shammgod]

The Bulls do not have enough to get a deal done, it's just that simple.

Unknowns and hype dont cut it, neither do low picks, and certainly not a pick that might not even ever translate into a first rounder.

Boozer is an amnesty candidate, no one trades for those, and the one who did got fired.

Bulls fans need to get a dose of reality, look at their roster beyond Noah, and understand those other pieces do not get Melo.

Get a third team involved that has something worthwhile.....all those trades are garbage, every single one.

[Deeeez Knicks]

The issue isn't even what the Bulls have to offer. The issue is what does Melo want to do. If he doesn't want to play in Chicago, then it really doesn't matter what the Bulls offer. There's really no way either team is negotiating serious terms if Melo hasn't even made a decision either. Once he makes a decision, it'll swing leverage.

[GONYK]

The issue isn't even what the Bulls have to offer. The issue is what does Melo want to do. If he doesn't want to play in Chicago, then it really doesn't matter what the Bulls offer. There's really no way either team is negotiating serious terms if Melo hasn't even made a decision either. Once he makes a decision, it'll swing leverage.

The only thing that will swing leverage is Melo willing to play for $15m in Chicago.

[newyorker4ever]

It's not about one year. There roster will not be better than ours after next year.

Really?? Do you know something the rest of the world doesn't?? Without Melo we will have a tough time bringing in the big boys and there's no telling which big names will even be out thee after next year.

Um ok. What are you talking about?

You said after next year that our team will be better than their team and i asked how do you know that....basically.

[Dkillanyk4lyf]

melo's waiting till monday so his mouthpiece sas can break the news of his decision.

#INPHILWETRUST!!!!

[Thugger HBC]

i dont think the teams have talked to each other, all of it has been speculation.

But on this board, those Bulls trades are an issue mainly because we all are damn near forced to read them, and they are all terrible.

If those terrible scenarios stayed on their board, they'd be no issues at all.

[K_ick_God]

Longer it goes could mean he's hesitant to commit or they're working on the details of the Knick numbers.

With Lakers, the deal would be set. He knows the deal exactly right now -- Max over 4 -- so why wait to commit with them unless it's something to do with Bron which seems unlikely.

So time may favor Knicks actually. Bulls would need work but that seems dead to me.

[liknicks7]

Really?? Do you know something the rest of the world doesn't?? Without Melo we will have a tough time bringing in the big boys and there's no telling which big names will even be out thee after next year.

Um ok. What are you talking about?

You said after next year that our team will be better than their team and i asked how do you know that....basically.

I'm saying if Melo signs here. Obvi if Melo does not our team will be garbage.

[Workforce250]

The issue isn't even what the Bulls have to offer. The issue is what does Melo want to do. If he doesn't want to play in Chicago, then it really doesn't matter what the Bulls offer. There's really no way either team is negotiating serious terms if Melo hasn't even made a decision either. Once he makes a decision, it'll swing leverage.

The only thing that will swing leverage is Melo willing to play for $15m in Chicago.

If Kobe was his REAL boy he would say **** Chicago and non-impressive $15, get your cheese son.
if not in LA, get paid in NYC. period

[liknicks7]

I love how the NBA is basically held hostage right now. No one is doing anything until these two make up their damn minds.

[xNewYorkMadex]

The issue isn't even what the Bulls have to offer. The issue is what does Melo want to do. If he doesn't want to play in Chicago, then it really doesn't matter what the Bulls offer. There's really no way either team is negotiating serious terms if Melo hasn't even made a decision either. Once he makes a decision, it'll swing leverage.

The only thing that will swing leverage is Melo willing to play for $15m in Chicago.

If Melo is really willing to play in Chicago for such a huge discount then we dont have much leverage.

But since he likely isnt willing to play for only 15-16 million, we arent going to bend over backwards to help him and the Bulls pay him what he desires. Many Bulls fans still dont understand this.

The Lakers on the other hand do have cap space, and if we for whatever reason do a sign and trade with the Lakers, we will get crap in return because they hold all the power. The Bulls dont.

[IrishBeatdown]

There has got to be a happy medium, that is a silly trade, but so is the proposed trade on this board of 3 1st rounders, mirotic & mcdermott. That would be an unprecedented trade for a free agent. Can anyone put together a reasonable trade proposal?

That's the inherent problem with fans trades and why they by rule always suck.

There is no "happy medium" in a circumstance when one party doesn't want to participate in the trade.

Can can't walk up to someone's house that isn't for sale and offer them the market price for a house that in that neighborhood. Part of the your offer has to the extra incentive to sell.

Knicks would

1.) Prefer to keep Melo.
2.) Let him walk for nothing rather than help the Bulls and get back a token return.
3.) S&T with Bulls.

So any Bulls offer has to reconfigure those preferences.

Your fanbase has been trying the "but it's better than nothing" argument for weeks. You're not going to find any takers.

You want to receptive audience, then you have to propose something "unprecedented."

Good post. I'm basing the value of the trade on what we would trade to another rebuilding team (much like NYK without Melo) to take on Boozer's contract. Much of the value of any Bulls - Melo trade that the Bulls contribute is so Boozer can be let loose to create cap for Melo. I agree with the fact that Chicago isn't going to force-feed a trade to NY. Isn't going to happen. If NY doesn't want Boozer for the price of two 1sts, than they don't do the deal, simple as that. Chicago is willing to give more assets when:

They can't find a taker for Boozer's salary for two 1sts, maybe 2nd toss in
Melo demands the max, which means more moves by Chicago to acquire him

NY would have to be willing to take on Boozer for the picks, or combo of Miro, ect; Like you said, all of this could be just mental masturbation, many NY fans don't like any package of Bulls assets, and who knows how Phil feels. I guess I'm just using this exercise to try and determine cost.

Specifically, how much is the cost of Boozer entering the deal?

[Deeeez Knicks]

The issue isn't even what the Bulls have to offer. The issue is what does Melo want to do. If he doesn't want to play in Chicago, then it really doesn't matter what the Bulls offer. There's really no way either team is negotiating serious terms if Melo hasn't even made a decision either. Once he makes a decision, it'll swing leverage.

The only thing that will swing leverage is Melo willing to play for $15m in Chicago.

Yup, exactly. Thats where the Bulls stand right now. Thats why they have lost a lot of appeal. No way Phil is going to bend right now and negotiate terms to help the Bulls position at least until Melo makes up his mind.

The options are on the table...its just up to Melo to make a decision. What the Bulls are willing to offer or what the Knicks are willing to except I dont even think matters at this point.

[Moose]

I'm fine with dealing Melo and JR for Mirotic, MCD, three firsts (sac and cleveland swap), as well as a 2016 second rounder, Boozer, and filler.

I wouldn't want to sign a 30-year-old Melo to 25mill a year with this team and our situation. I wouldn't go over 20 mill per.

I've literally said this a dozen times. Not all Knicks fans think that this specific Bulls offer is crap. Some may spew that it is, but I think it is fair for the circumstances of both teams. Outside of adding both Mirotic and MCD (instead 1 out of the 2), the Bulls would do this trade. And honestly, if it comes down to not having Melo or having Melo, they would add both (Mirotic and MCD).

[SelbyCobra]

Lets be honest, NYK would S&T him for a first rounder if it came down to it, if it doesn't involve taking on Boozer, Phil isn't going to turn down assets out of pride.

But as you say later in posts, they have to clear the space to sign him outright at the money he wants. The only reason teams were "forced" to accept S&T for stars in the past was to get the extra year for the player, and that's not possible anymore. You either have the money to sign the player outright, or you have to bend to the team that's trading him in order to get the player on your roster at the money he wants.

There is no longer any "recouping whatever possible" aspect to S&Ts under the new CBA because the trading team can't pass the 5th year or annual increases on to the accepting team.

The entirety of you and everyone else who is discussing a S&T using terms such as "if it came down to it" and "something rather than nothing" have a fundamentally incorrect understanding of the new CBA rules.

There are quite literally only two scenarios involving Melo to the Bulls:

1) The Bulls clear enough space to give him his desired salary outright.

2) The Bulls do not have enough money to give Melo his desired salary outright, but he wants to play there.

In scenario one the Knicks have no leverage and just get boned over. Lose Melo, no assets returned.

In scenario two the Bulls are completely at the Knicks' mercy. They have to satisfy the Knicks or PJax just sits there with his hands folded smiling.

But again, these trade scenarios where the Knicks have no leverage and are being forced into accepting assets are misinformed fan ramblings based on the previous CBA, not the current one.