2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[HEZI]

publications

Tic toc all you want but Knicks aren't drafting another project guard from France

[RHODEY]

Tic toc all you want but Knicks aren't drafting another project guard from France

[HEZI]

Tic toc all you want but Knicks aren't drafting another project guard from France

[mpharris36]

to be fair about Hayes he grew up in France but he is an American. He was born in Lakeland, FL but grew up in France because his father played ball overseas (DeRon Hayes). I personally don't think he has the same passive approach to the game that Frank has.

They are completely different players and not wanting to pick him because of Frank is a silly reason because they play nothing a like.

[3toheadmelo]

I like Hayes but yeah I highly doubt we are going to pick another player from France

[RHODEY]

I accept your surrender, you almost broke the interwebs trying to find a Cole #1 ranking

[RHODEY]

to be fair about Hayes he grew up in France but he is an American. He was born in Lakeland, FL but grew up in France because his father played ball overseas (DeRon Hayes). I personally don't think he has the same passive approach to the game that Frank has.

They are completely different players and not wanting to pick him because of Frank is a silly reason because they play nothing a like.

I agree very silly....

[malik959]

idk i think Hayes is kind of a project. Doesn't have a right hand and needs to become more athletic. He's like super young and his body is still developing. You have to hope he gets faster cuz having a back court with average athleticism could become a problem. At least Frank just showed us that you develop athletically so it makes me more optimistic about Hayes.

Do you think he Is any more of a project than Ball - because of his poor shot IQ and his lack of defensive mindset?

or Haliburton because his lack of offensive versatility, refined handle, and slight build?

or Cole due to his poor passing/play making and bad shot IQ?

I'm not sure Killian any less ready than they are. I might argue the opposite since eye test shows he is a crafty heady player.

I don't see "project" as an insult I see it more as a young player with a lot of potential who may need extended time to fully develop some skills. Basically they have a lot of upside

killian is 18 and playing in europe on a small stage, asking him to come and start at PG for the knicks in MSG and expecting him to be great from day 1 is a big ask. Not to say he can't. Ball will take time too but he's been in the spotlight his whole life so might be able to handle the one in NY a little faster. Any 18 year old you draft is probably going to need at least 1 year if not more to get their feet wet. Sometimes they don't make a big jump until year 2 3 or even 4.

Cole and Haliburton are in their 20s, they may be more prepared mentally for the role early on at least, but not as high of a ceiling

We're still going to be bad next year no matter what but hopefully we finally start to see progress and build on it

When I say project I do mean he'll take time to develop, it's no negative. Players that are expected to take 3+ years to develop are considered projects. Jaylen Brown, Brandon Ingram, Andrew Wiggins, Kevin Knox, Aaron Gordan, Mudiay, Porzingis, Hezonja, Buddy Hield, Jonathan Isaac, Frank Ntilikina, and Marvin Bagley are all players that you know will take 3-4 years to develop. They are project players that don't start out year one scoring 12+ points per game.

[mpharris36]

Do you think he Is any more of a project than Ball - because of his poor shot IQ and his lack of defensive mindset?

or Haliburton because his lack of offensive versatility, refined handle, and slight build?

or Cole due to his poor passing/play making and bad shot IQ?

I'm not sure Killian any less ready than they are. I might argue the opposite since eye test shows he is a crafty heady player.

I don't see "project" as an insult I see it more as a young player with a lot of potential who may need extended time to fully develop some skills. Basically they have a lot of upside

killian is 18 and playing in europe on a small stage, asking him to come and start at PG for the knicks in MSG and expecting him to be great from day 1 is a big ask. Not to say he can't. Ball will take time too but he's been in the spotlight his whole life so might be able to handle the one in NY a little faster. Any 18 year old you draft is probably going to need at least 1 year if not more to get their feet wet. Sometimes they don't make a big jump until year 2 3 or even 4.

Cole and Haliburton are in their 20s, they may be more prepared mentally for the role early on at least, but not as high of a ceiling

We're still going to be bad next year no matter what but hopefully we finally start to see progress and build on it

When I say project I do mean he'll take time to develop, it's no negative. Players that are expected to take 3+ years to develop are considered projects. Jaylen Brown, Brandon Ingram, Andrew Wiggins, Kevin Knox, Aaron Gordan, Mudiay, Porzingis, Hezonja, Buddy Hield, Jonathan Isaac, Frank Ntilikina, and Marvin Bagley are all players that you know will take 3-4 years to develop. They are project players that don't start out year one scoring 12+ points per game.

with the way the draft is an the age of the kids I would say almost everyone in the top 10 should be considered a "project" outside of maybe Obi Toppin (because he is a senior citizen) and Tyrese Haliburton. I think both guys will probably be the most productive early on because they are more seasoned players with lower floors. They might have more capt ceilings because they have limitations to there games. But both I think have pretty easily tranlatable skills right off the bat and both are 20+ years old. Some of these guys are still babies (just turned 18 or 19). It will take all these guys time.

[HEZI]

I accept your surrender, you almost broke the interwebs trying to find a Cole #1 ranking

Publications are your go to for scouting, not mine. You just battling yourself here

[RHODEY]

Do you think he Is any more of a project than Ball - because of his poor shot IQ and his lack of defensive mindset?

or Haliburton because his lack of offensive versatility, refined handle, and slight build?

or Cole due to his poor passing/play making and bad shot IQ?

I'm not sure Killian any less ready than they are. I might argue the opposite since eye test shows he is a crafty heady player.

I don't see "project" as an insult I see it more as a young player with a lot of potential who may need extended time to fully develop some skills. Basically they have a lot of upside

killian is 18 and playing in europe on a small stage, asking him to come and start at PG for the knicks in MSG and expecting him to be great from day 1 is a big ask. Not to say he can't. Ball will take time too but he's been in the spotlight his whole life so might be able to handle the one in NY a little faster. Any 18 year old you draft is probably going to need at least 1 year if not more to get their feet wet. Sometimes they don't make a big jump until year 2 3 or even 4.

Cole and Haliburton are in their 20s, they may be more prepared mentally for the role early on at least, but not as high of a ceiling

We're still going to be bad next year no matter what but hopefully we finally start to see progress and build on it

When I say project I do mean he'll take time to develop, it's no negative. Players that are expected to take 3+ years to develop are considered projects. Jaylen Brown, Brandon Ingram, Andrew Wiggins, Kevin Knox, Aaron Gordan, Mudiay, Porzingis, Hezonja, Buddy Hield, Jonathan Isaac, Frank Ntilikina, and Marvin Bagley are all players that you know will take 3-4 years to develop. They are project players that don't start out year one scoring 12+ points per game.

Right not taken as negative , I just questioned why you would think he would take longer to develop than Ball with his broken shot, Cole, with his poor court vision or Haliburton ...especially since he checks off more all around than the other guys.

[HEZI]

to be fair about Hayes he grew up in France but he is an American. He was born in Lakeland, FL but grew up in France because his father played ball overseas (DeRon Hayes). I personally don't think he has the same passive approach to the game that Frank has.

They are completely different players and not wanting to pick him because of Frank is a silly reason because they play nothing a like.

That aint the reason. His flaws have been discussed already. He aint better than a good amount of guards in this class. Only thing he's got going is his age and the allure of "potential". Expecting some type of impact from him early on would be foolish considering the amount of hurdles he's gotta get over to just become an average NBA guard.

[RHODEY]

I accept your surrender, you almost broke the interwebs trying to find a Cole #1 ranking

Publications are your go to for scouting, not mine. You just battling yourself here

Dude no need to get personal, take the L with dignity.

[mpharris36]

to be fair about Hayes he grew up in France but he is an American. He was born in Lakeland, FL but grew up in France because his father played ball overseas (DeRon Hayes). I personally don't think he has the same passive approach to the game that Frank has.

They are completely different players and not wanting to pick him because of Frank is a silly reason because they play nothing a like.

That aint the reason. His flaws have been discussed already. He aint better than a good amount of guards in this class. Only thing he's got going is his age and the allure of "potential". Expecting some type of impact from him early on would be foolish considering the amount of hurdles he's gotta get over to just become an average NBA guard.

thats fair. And someone can dislike or not want him for many reasons. I have no issues with you critizing him as a player. That is your evaluatoin on his talent, when others have a completely different view.

but not picking him because of Frank should be a non existant argument. Kobe played a majority of his early career overseas before the NBA (because of his father). It should have no bairing on evaluating a player.

[HEZI]

Here's what I can almost guarantee you

Frank Ntilikina will be better than Killian Hayes next season. He's going to be more polished and experienced than Hayes and will win the starting spot over him next season if it were to come down to the Knicks taking Hayes. Knicks will see how raw Hayes is and will count on Frank and possibly another vet guard while Hayes gets minimal playing time. Rose is not going to make Hayes his first draft selection of his Knicks tenure. Might as well ride with Frank then. Rose will go for a more impact player, that is almost certain.

[HEZI]

I accept your surrender, you almost broke the interwebs trying to find a Cole #1 ranking

Publications are your go to for scouting, not mine. You just battling yourself here

Dude no need to get personal, take the L with dignity.

I would if you actually could put up a fight

[mpharris36]

Here's what I can almost guarantee you

Frank Ntilikina will be better than Killian Hayes next season. He's going to be more polished and experienced than Hayes and will win the starting spot over him next season if it were to come down to the Knicks taking Hayes. Knicks will see how raw Hayes is and will count on Frank and possibly another vet guard while Hayes gets minimal playing time. Rose is not going to make Hayes his first draft selection of his Knicks tenure. Might as well ride with Frank then. Rose will go for a more impact player, that is almost certain.

if that is how Rose is going to evaluate the players he would have to select Haliburton then? He has the lowest floor of all the guards and probably is the least "project" out of all of them.

[HEZI]

to be fair about Hayes he grew up in France but he is an American. He was born in Lakeland, FL but grew up in France because his father played ball overseas (DeRon Hayes). I personally don't think he has the same passive approach to the game that Frank has.

They are completely different players and not wanting to pick him because of Frank is a silly reason because they play nothing a like.

That aint the reason. His flaws have been discussed already. He aint better than a good amount of guards in this class. Only thing he's got going is his age and the allure of "potential". Expecting some type of impact from him early on would be foolish considering the amount of hurdles he's gotta get over to just become an average NBA guard.

thats fair. And someone can dislike or not want him for many reasons. I have no issues with you critizing him as a player. That is your evaluatoin on his talent, when others have a completely different view.

but not picking him because of Frank should be a non existant argument. Kobe played a majority of his early career overseas before the NBA (because of his father). It should have no bairing on evaluating a player.

I don't dislike Hayes I just don't see him being the right pick for us. If there is a team that can afford to take that risk they should go for it but we can't afford to blow this pick and Hayes just isn't worth the gamble.

[RHODEY]

Publications are your go to for scouting, not mine. You just battling yourself here

Dude no need to get personal, take the L with dignity.

I would if you actually could put up a fight

[mpharris36]

That aint the reason. His flaws have been discussed already. He aint better than a good amount of guards in this class. Only thing he's got going is his age and the allure of "potential". Expecting some type of impact from him early on would be foolish considering the amount of hurdles he's gotta get over to just become an average NBA guard.

thats fair. And someone can dislike or not want him for many reasons. I have no issues with you critizing him as a player. That is your evaluatoin on his talent, when others have a completely different view.

but not picking him because of Frank should be a non existant argument. Kobe played a majority of his early career overseas before the NBA (because of his father). It should have no bairing on evaluating a player.

I don't dislike Hayes I just don't see him being the right pick for us. If there is a team that can afford to take that risk they should go for it but we can't afford to blow this pick and Hayes just isn't worth the gamble.

going safe can also limit your upside