PG: Knicks-Hawks aka 1,2,3,Cancun! (Hawks win series 4-1)

[Iron Mantis]

While Windhorst declined to name a specific All-Star player, he added that he has guesses about which players could potentially be lured to play in the Big Apple. He cited several reasons as to why players would want to play for the Knicks, from its status as one of the league’s biggest markets, the team’s collection of draft picks, and sizeable cap space that could be used to sign more players.

"Here's the thing," said Brian Windhorst on his podcast. "They have one of the top former agents in the league running the organization in Leon Rose.

"Their number two in their team, I'm not sure what Wes Wesley's title is, but his speciality is relationship building with players. Even if it has waned a little bit as he's gotten older, his speciality is relationship building. And I don't want to say 'backroom dealing' because that implies that it is sinister. But he's known for working in the shadows.

"They play in New York City. They have an abundance of draft picks, young assets and cap space.

"The only sort of flaw in here is I'm not sure every player wants to play for Thibs, but there are some who like them.

"I say within the next 12 months a star, slash, superstar player demands a trade to New York. And I don't know who it's going to be. I have some guesses. I'm not going to say right here. I'll let you guys start thinking about that. Let's just put it this way: league executives certainly have some guesses.

Unless the star slash superstar is Jayson Tatum, Luka Doncic, or Zion Williamson, I don't care and neither should you.

Knicks will get desperate because Thibs wants to win now. They're going to go all in on a Derozan, Beal, Jimmy Butler type.

"All in?"...The Knicks FO haven't done anything to indicate they're desperate like the old regime. If the Knicks can get those types of players without being banished to cap-hell and emptying the chest of assets, do it.

They got D.Rose for free.

These types of moves will keep the Knicks competitive as the youth develops, the entire team situation is more attractive, and contributing pieces on a perennial playoff team have actual trade value.

[GONYK]

Yeah it's a toxic cocktail of MSG needing to sell tickets for shareholders, an easily duped fanbase, and a coach who doesn't have interest in or patience for the classic rebuild scenario.

Bring back Fizdale.

What's Thibs supposed to do, lose games on purpose so internet basketball fans can feel better about themselves until he gets fired like Fizdale did? He came in and did his job.

It's not his fault per se... he's part of a larger organizational problem. The organization wants "relevance" over contention. And it's 100% profit driven in the most cynical way. Other owners and ownership groups are okay with the slow and steady approach, but MSG is 100% about short term returns. Why construct a dynasty when you can fill seats by fielding a team in which your best players are Randle and Lonzo (or any other sub-star level player).

The organization didn't do anything to prevent tanking. They handed Thibs essentially the same roster that Fizdale could barely get to double digit wins with.

[Sark]

What's Thibs supposed to do, lose games on purpose so internet basketball fans can feel better about themselves until he gets fired like Fizdale did? He came in and did his job.

It's not his fault per se... he's part of a larger organizational problem. The organization wants "relevance" over contention. And it's 100% profit driven in the most cynical way. Other owners and ownership groups are okay with the slow and steady approach, but MSG is 100% about short term returns. Why construct a dynasty when you can fill seats by fielding a team in which your best players are Randle and Lonzo (or any other sub-star level player).

Other than the sixers whose success rate wasn't even that high, name one contender that's built a contender through tanking

Atlanta, and Phoenix.

[WargamesX]

Great regular season but we were outclassed, outmanned, and outcoached badly vs the Hawks.

Lot more concerning questions about our future. Can we still trend upwards? Sure can. But there is a little more uncertainty about what we have then about 10 days or so.

You can always tell members of the Closet Kenny Club by statements like that.

McMillan sent doubles at Randle and overplayed shooters. It's the exact same thing the Heat did and no master class in coaching.
Thib wasn't "outcoached" by some wide margin.

The fairly sh*tty roster was exposed.

Sorry Frank didn't get any minutes. That doesn't mean Thibs sucks. It means Frank sucks, as he has through like 18 coaches now. Unfortunately. I was really rooting for the guy. He'll probably put it all together on some other team. Specifically the Mavs, so the prophecy can be fulfilled.

damn we are really taking the gloves off now huh? turns out it's the frooters who are trying to get our coach fired after a tremendous season. they are getting very desperate now. sad.

Thibs **** the bed it was just hard to notice cause the load Randle left was 2X bigger. Nobody is trying to get Thibs fired, we’re just admitting he didn’t make changes to things that were not working. Playing Frank as a gimmick at the end of two halves and then throwing your hands up is basura coaching. Especially when it was clear Trae was hiding out defensively on Bullock since game 3 . Trae who should have been targeted hid on the D&3 player who never really stopped him and out side of shooting threes was no threat to even try to drive on him despite the size disadvantage Trae had.

[Reign23]

what did SAS say?

[robillionaire]

What's Thibs supposed to do, lose games on purpose so internet basketball fans can feel better about themselves until he gets fired like Fizdale did? He came in and did his job.

It's not his fault per se... he's part of a larger organizational problem. The organization wants "relevance" over contention. And it's 100% profit driven in the most cynical way. Other owners and ownership groups are okay with the slow and steady approach, but MSG is 100% about short term returns. Why construct a dynasty when you can fill seats by fielding a team in which your best players are Randle and Lonzo (or any other sub-star level player).

The organization didn't do anything to prevent tanking. They handed Thibs essentially the same roster that Fizdale could barely get to double digit wins with.

Because Fizdale sucks. They were 17-27 under mike miller, and brought in better role players, and randle had an all-star season

[WargamesX]

It's not his fault per se... he's part of a larger organizational problem. The organization wants "relevance" over contention. And it's 100% profit driven in the most cynical way. Other owners and ownership groups are okay with the slow and steady approach, but MSG is 100% about short term returns. Why construct a dynasty when you can fill seats by fielding a team in which your best players are Randle and Lonzo (or any other sub-star level player).

Other than the sixers whose success rate wasn't even that high, name one contender that's built a contender through tanking

Atlanta, and Phoenix.

The Spurs when they got Duncan

Hell we only got RJ our most promising young player because..... we tanked

[ENYK]

What's Thibs supposed to do, lose games on purpose so internet basketball fans can feel better about themselves until he gets fired like Fizdale did? He came in and did his job.

It's not his fault per se... he's part of a larger organizational problem. The organization wants "relevance" over contention. And it's 100% profit driven in the most cynical way. Other owners and ownership groups are okay with the slow and steady approach, but MSG is 100% about short term returns. Why construct a dynasty when you can fill seats by fielding a team in which your best players are Randle and Lonzo (or any other sub-star level player).

here's why I disagree with that

Relevance and contention are not mutually exclusive, that's a false dilemma, and in fact we have examples where relevance has ultimately lead to contention. being relevant until the point you can contend is actually a slow and steady approach as it gets, that's why people don't want to do it, they would rather get the instant gratification of thinking we are about to draft the savior of the franchise every single summer

I don't see how it's profit driven when this team has sucked for 20 years and ticket prices already already so high most people can't afford them, and they raise them every year no matter how bad the team is because they know they will sell out every time, mostly to tourists. They could go 0-82 and would have no problem filling seats.

They are absolutely mutually exclusive when you don't have the ability to acquire (via draft, or any other means) a single All NBA level talent. There is no slow and steady, and then you get a contender. Superstars join other superstars, or a low cost core of borderline young stars (think LeBron rejoining the Cavs with Kyrie on a rookie deal). If we can't draft high, we get nothing.

The Knicks have selected in the top 5 only 3 times in the past 30+ years. It's pretty simplistic to say the fanbase/organization hinges its hopes on draft salvation. If we have, we certainly haven't set ourselves up historically for that outcome with being bad but not bad enough to get a top pick.

You make a good point about ticket sales... I still think the classic Knicks organization signing (or trading for) of mediocre sub-star talent has something to do with pandering to the fanbase... More eyeballs on the screen = better ad revenues for MSG network, the centerpiece of MSG the publicly traded company.

[Reign23]

People getting hyped up for the draft need to dial it back - our coach is Thibs. He's not going to play any young kid regardless of how well they play.

I hope we give him one more season, he imparts more defensive mechanics or whatever and we move on from him. His stubbornness and inability to think on his feet was completely exploited by Nate. No coach is easier to scheme against.

this is not a good example. they were the 9th and 10th man of a 10 men rotation. and just because the alternatives were also young players in Knox, Frank and Harper (+Iggy). If we had a decent 30 year old vet on a one year deal, thibs would have played him over IQ and Obi every day of the week.

[GONYK]

It's not his fault per se... he's part of a larger organizational problem. The organization wants "relevance" over contention. And it's 100% profit driven in the most cynical way. Other owners and ownership groups are okay with the slow and steady approach, but MSG is 100% about short term returns. Why construct a dynasty when you can fill seats by fielding a team in which your best players are Randle and Lonzo (or any other sub-star level player).

The organization didn't do anything to prevent tanking. They handed Thibs essentially the same roster that Fizdale could barely get to double digit wins with.

Because Fizdale sucks. They were 17-27 under mike miller, and brought in better role players, and randle had an all-star season

This is the only part of the equation that matters.

So unless people wanted Randle traded early in the year, there was no tanking to be had.

I'd also question the wisdom of trading Randle, who you have under a cheap contract, in order to pursue tanking.

[Oscirus]

It's not his fault per se... he's part of a larger organizational problem. The organization wants "relevance" over contention. And it's 100% profit driven in the most cynical way. Other owners and ownership groups are okay with the slow and steady approach, but MSG is 100% about short term returns. Why construct a dynasty when you can fill seats by fielding a team in which your best players are Randle and Lonzo (or any other sub-star level player).

Other than the sixers whose success rate wasn't even that high, name one contender that's built a contender through tanking

Atlanta, and Phoenix.

Fair enough with Phoenix but Atlantas not a contender

[Spree2Houston]

what did SAS say?

New York New YORK! We HERE in Cancun...BROOKLYN WHAT BROOKLYN WHAT

[Sark]

Thibodeau's regular season record: 393-277, .587%

Thibodeau's playoff record: 25-36, .410%

Why do you think there is such a discrepancy between the two? He gets his guys to hustle every game in the regular season. You can win 40, 50, even 60 games with subpar talent in the regular season like that. But in the playoffs, everyone plays hard. You can't out hustle your opponent in the playoffs. He doesn't make adjustments in his game planning, and that gets exposed in the playoffs.

There were countless times this year where we'd be down in the second quarter by double digits, and then in the third and fourth we'd turn up the pressure, and come back to win. That's all his coaching his guys up. That doesn't work in the playoffs though.

[ENYK]

Other than the sixers whose success rate wasn't even that high, name one contender that's built a contender through tanking

Atlanta, and Phoenix.

The Spurs when they got Duncan

Hell we only got RJ our most promising young player because..... we tanked

These anti-tanking people are really out of their minds...

Tanking fails for small market/undesirable market teams... If you're in a big market you will be able to draft a star and keep him if you play it smart and keep enough cap room to sign other stars/complementary players.

NYC is cool, it's the capital of the world, but we don't present FAs with any foundation to join.

Miami drafted Wade, he brought LeBron and Bosh... GS drafted Curry, Klay, Draymond, they added Kevin Durant.

The Nets are, if anything, the supreme outlier. And Kyrie is one of the more eccentric stars the league has ever seen. Not sure how people are using them as a blueprint the Knicks should follow. Literally dependent on some weirdo deciding to join an empty roster and bringing his 6'10 All NBA gimp to join him.

[god shammgod]

The organization didn't do anything to prevent tanking. They handed Thibs essentially the same roster that Fizdale could barely get to double digit wins with.

Because Fizdale sucks. They were 17-27 under mike miller, and brought in better role players, and randle had an all-star season

This is the only part of the equation that matters.

So unless people wanted Randle traded early in the year, there was no tanking to be had.

I'd also question the wisdom of trading Randle, who you have under a cheap contract, in order to pursue tanking.

so these playoffs gives you no pause to paying this guy 30 million a year for the next 4/5 years ?

[F N 11]

That didn't happen.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

not the whole clip but a couple people said it did happen

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It’s why no one passed him the ball at the all star game lol

Steven A taking money out of a mans pocket again. Leave that to the fans. Dude on major media talking about if hes worth the money and the knicks was still playing.

I agree Randle has major EGO thats for damn sure.

[ENYK]

Other than the sixers whose success rate wasn't even that high, name one contender that's built a contender through tanking

Atlanta, and Phoenix.

Fair enough with Phoenix but Atlantas not a contender

Atlanta has a brighter future than us 100%... They have one future All NBA talent... If they clear cap room and add another guy they contend. It's a sh** basketball market so it won't happen, but where do you (or anyone else) get off saying they're not closer to building a contender than the Knicks after they smoke us 4-1?

Hell, ATL might make it to the ECF this year (injuries to opponents are just part of the game).

[mpharris36]

Great regular season but we were outclassed, outmanned, and outcoached badly vs the Hawks.

Lot more concerning questions about our future. Can we still trend upwards? Sure can. But there is a little more uncertainty about what we have then about 10 days or so.

You can always tell members of the Closet Kenny Club by statements like that.

McMillan sent doubles at Randle and overplayed shooters. It's the exact same thing the Heat did and no master class in coaching.
Thib wasn't "outcoached" by some wide margin.

The fairly sh*tty roster was exposed.

Sorry Frank didn't get any minutes. That doesn't mean Thibs sucks. It means Frank sucks, as he has through like 18 coaches now. Unfortunately. I was really rooting for the guy. He'll probably put it all together on some other team. Specifically the Mavs, so the prophecy can be fulfilled.

someone woke up angry this morning...carry on

[GONYK]

Because Fizdale sucks. They were 17-27 under mike miller, and brought in better role players, and randle had an all-star season

This is the only part of the equation that matters.

So unless people wanted Randle traded early in the year, there was no tanking to be had.

I'd also question the wisdom of trading Randle, who you have under a cheap contract, in order to pursue tanking.

so these playoffs gives you no pause to paying this guy 30 million a year for the next 4/5 years ?

That a different matter. The Knicks, as an organization, did nothing to prevent tanking. They didn't go on a spending spree like the Hawks. They just gave Thibs the same roster.

As far as paying Julius, giving him $30M a year is not on the table for us. He's either getting paid $20M or getting extended for $26M. Either of those contracts are movable for his level of production.

[god shammgod]

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