#10 - Spida Thread - I hate sham

[bearadonisdna]

We got all sorts of young punks running up on the old dudes here on the forum but don't get caught...

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He should have just shot him in the face

That’s how my polls did some of the young’uns, when they was out here thinking the wrong thing

[2010]

I hate those charts with a bunch of heads that you can't **** see. There has to be a better way of displaying that kind of data.

F them head charts. I am not sitting here zooming in trying to figure out who these people are.

They need to make 4 lists, one for each quadrant

[DOT]

Yeah, I hate those things

If you're gonna do it, it has to be interactive so you can filter out most people, cause I can't tell who's who half the time

Only thing it's good for is pointing out outliers, guys who are so far out of the pack you can see them clear as day. And even then, there're better ways to show that.

[mpharris36]

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?

He gets hidden on defense and guards the weakest matchups and doesn’t really make a defensive impact. He’s in the No 3 No D category

He has had a negative DEF RAPTOR all 3 years too. Again not an end all be all stat but I wouldn't call him a plus defender.

negative def raptor for 3 years hasn't stopped people from calling rj a plus defender

Who's called RJ a good defender. I do think you need to have context behind it. RJ was tasked with guarding the oppositions best wing player. There is a difference. He started the season off well on defense then fell off a cliff.

That is something for sure he needs to improve on and potentially with less usage he can focus on being a better more consistent defender.

But my point remains if you look up matchup difficulty RJ is a lot of times tasked with guarding the oppositions best perimeter player because Kemba/Fournier couldn't do it.

[DOT]

RJ's fine defensively

He's not gonna hurt you, but he's not gonna lock anyone down for an extended period

If he's your best defender, you're gonna have a rough time

Like, he was great against isolation this year (though he only had roughly the 70th most iso defense possessions in the league), he was solid against spot-ups (57th percentile, guys scored 1.00 ppp when spotting up with RJ as the primary defender), but that can mean a lot of things, so it's hard to draw conclusions

He was also solid against the PnR, 57th percentile with opponents scoring .84 ppp, though again, we need more context because PnR is a multiple person defensive effort, and the ball handler scoring isn't the only metric

I guess my point is, I don't think anyone who's saying that RJ is the worst defender on the team or that he brings no value on defense is either trolling or just doesn't watch. And that defensive metrics are still pretty difficult overall because individual defense is difficult to evaluate, especially in the modern day where offenses are so much more advanced that they require all 5 guys to defend every play.

[TerrenceClarke]

..

I question anything you have to say, cause you dont think EL Camino can spit.

Watch on YouTube

..

Talk to ya mans....

[Fury]

Just saw Alan Hahn at the airport lol

Nice guy

[mpharris36]

RJ's fine defensively

He's not gonna hurt you, but he's not gonna lock anyone down for an extended period

If he's your best defender, you're gonna have a rough time

Like, he was great against isolation this year (though he only had roughly the 70th most iso defense possessions in the league), he was solid against spot-ups (57th percentile, guys scored 1.00 ppp when spotting up with RJ as the primary defender), but that can mean a lot of things, so it's hard to draw conclusions

He was also solid against the PnR, 57th percentile with opponents scoring .84 ppp, though again, we need more context because PnR is a multiple person defensive effort, and the ball handler scoring isn't the only metric

I guess my point is, I don't think anyone who's saying that RJ is the worst defender on the team or that he brings no value on defense is either trolling or just doesn't watch. And that defensive metrics are still pretty difficult overall because individual defense is difficult to evaluate, especially in the modern day where offenses are so much more advanced that they require all 5 guys to defend every play.

Lot of good info here. I know you said you don't like these charts but its clear he was forced to guard above his capabilities right now

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He had matchup difficulties along the lines of Lonzo Ball, Thybulle, Herb Jones, and Mikal Bridges...basically on par with defensive specialists.

The only 2 players on that chart that even sniff RJ's usage offensively and also defend the oppositions best matchup is Dejounte Murray and Jimmy Butler.

Basically my point is...usually the guys that are required to do a lot of the offensive output aren't required to also expend all that defensive energy on the best offensive player as well. It's very rare.

That is why you even see guys like Giannis with great defensive metric but he is rarely tasked with guarding the oppositions best offensive player...

[god shammgod]

you guys are just baiting chanel now

[god shammgod]

..

I question anything you have to say, cause you dont think EL Camino can spit.

Watch on YouTube

..

Talk to ya mans....

i saw a clip of this song yesterday but it was just the chorus and it sounded good. woke up to find benny didn't even spit a verse on it and gave it to his weed carriers. sad. benny gotta stop being so loyal. nobody wants to hear from the 2022 version of the theodore unit.

[mpharris36]

you guys are just baiting chanel now

[Richard4444]

RJ's fine defensively

He's not gonna hurt you, but he's not gonna lock anyone down for an extended period

If he's your best defender, you're gonna have a rough time

Like, he was great against isolation this year (though he only had roughly the 70th most iso defense possessions in the league), he was solid against spot-ups (57th percentile, guys scored 1.00 ppp when spotting up with RJ as the primary defender), but that can mean a lot of things, so it's hard to draw conclusions

He was also solid against the PnR, 57th percentile with opponents scoring .84 ppp, though again, we need more context because PnR is a multiple person defensive effort, and the ball handler scoring isn't the only metric

I guess my point is, I don't think anyone who's saying that RJ is the worst defender on the team or that he brings no value on defense is either trolling or just doesn't watch. And that defensive metrics are still pretty difficult overall because individual defense is difficult to evaluate, especially in the modern day where offenses are so much more advanced that they require all 5 guys to defend every play.

Lot of good info here. I know you said you don't like these charts but its clear he was forced to guard above his capabilities right now

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He had matchup difficulties along the lines of Lonzo Ball, Thybulle, Herb Jones, and Mikal Bridges...basically on par with defensive specialists.

The only 2 players on that chart that even sniff RJ's usage offensively and also defend the oppositions best matchup is Dejounte Murray and Jimmy Butler.

Basically my point is...usually the guys that are required to do a lot of the offensive output aren't required to also expend all that defensive energy on the best offensive player as well. It's very rare.

That is why you even see guys like Giannis with great defensive metric but he is rarely tasked with guarding the oppositions best offensive player...

Coaches also try to avoid getting their best offensive players fouling out by giving them easier matchups.

[Zenzibar]

RJ will eventually go out for the trade for the next star to play with Donovan if RJ's doesn't take massive leaps too...but he's young enough and if he continues to improve his game him along with whatever picks we can keep out of the deal probably headline the next trade they make...I think eveeryone see that.

Brunson isn't going anywhere under this regime....if Leon gets fired sure...but Brunson is locked here for as long as Leon is here.

The thing is that basketball isn’t like other sports. Basketball you need time with the ball especially if you’re better with the ball in your hands. This is a key developmental year for Barrett and with Brunson and Mitchell likely taking the ball up every single time, and them and Randle taking the most shots…I have no idea how RJ is going to improve under those conditions.

We will blame Thibs but in reality if they trade Obi and allow Randle to stay, RJ is being put in a position to fail.

He was the number 3 pick. He's had the ball in his hands for 3 years. He averaged 20ppg last year on league worst efficiency.

The Knicks FO want to "win" with second contact stars, maybe including Donovan Mitchell.

RJ has already failed. This is not his year, Randle or no, for key development.

RJ has already failed?

[mpharris36]

Coaches also try to avoid getting their best offensive players fouling out by giving them easier matchups.

yes another good point...foul trouble and exerting energy during a long regular season is not what most coaches want there best offensive players doing often. Playoffs are a different animal though.

Just shows you how good Jimmy Butler is that he does it on both ends all season long.

[thebuzzardman]

Just saw Alan Hahn at the airport lol

Nice guy

At least you didn't corner him, call him an MSG shill, get security called on you, and then wound up in that tiny security room for 4 hours, like would have happened to 25% of the posters on here.

[Deeeez Knicks]

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[DaGawd]

:lol:

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at least he would come back if we were a better constructed team… didn’t completely burn that bridge with the organization/fans lol

[Chanel Bomber]

you guys are just baiting chanel now

The fact is you're only now reaching the point where we've been at all along

RJ hasn't been a good defender. I'm glad that's settled.

But yes, if you reduced his usage on offense, maybe he would have more energy to expand on defense and go back to being decent on that end of the floor. It's been said for months.

He's a good man-to-man defender but he's not a good team defender. He's awful in help defense and he often gets caught with backdoor cuts.

[snadler]

Been very quiet, which could mean a deal is close and both teams said no more leaks, or they have ended their negotiations. Expect to hear another rumor today, media needs something to talk about and carry over the weekend

[Fat Kat]

Not sure why but I hate that guy (video guy not wingo). Something about him wishing me happiness and health and that preachy crap makes me sick. Plus he makes up nonsense.

I need to remember the logo so I never click it again.

He was a regular caller into KnicksFanTV that decided to branch out on his own. He has no sources and is extremely boring

KnicksFanTV has had him on as a guest. Don't be blaspheming The Rev! Besides I think what he's saying here makes sense. I mean, what doesn't make sense about it? Anyhow, let Ainge make that deal with the Cavs and Lakers. I'm content with our players except for Randle.