2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[HEZI]

Here's what I can almost guarantee you

Frank Ntilikina will be better than Killian Hayes next season. He's going to be more polished and experienced than Hayes and will win the starting spot over him next season if it were to come down to the Knicks taking Hayes. Knicks will see how raw Hayes is and will count on Frank and possibly another vet guard while Hayes gets minimal playing time. Rose is not going to make Hayes his first draft selection of his Knicks tenure. Might as well ride with Frank then. Rose will go for a more impact player, that is almost certain.

if that is how Rose is going to evaluate the players he would have to select Haliburton then? He has the lowest floor of all the guards and probably is the least "project" out of all of them.

It all depends on the belief in Haliburtons scoring ability on the next level. There are many reasons to like Haliburton and be high on him so I can see the rationale behind selecting him.

[mpharris36]

Here's what I can almost guarantee you

Frank Ntilikina will be better than Killian Hayes next season. He's going to be more polished and experienced than Hayes and will win the starting spot over him next season if it were to come down to the Knicks taking Hayes. Knicks will see how raw Hayes is and will count on Frank and possibly another vet guard while Hayes gets minimal playing time. Rose is not going to make Hayes his first draft selection of his Knicks tenure. Might as well ride with Frank then. Rose will go for a more impact player, that is almost certain.

if that is how Rose is going to evaluate the players he would have to select Haliburton then? He has the lowest floor of all the guards and probably is the least "project" out of all of them.

It all depends on the belief in Haliburtons scoring ability on the next level. There are many reasons to like Haliburton and be high on him so I can see the rationale behind selecting him.

I can as well. I think he is a safe pick. He can shoot, he can defend, he can run an offense.

But his upside is limtied since he is not a dynamic playmaker or athlete and he has a non exhistant mid range game.

Can he be a guy that late in a game he either can get a shot for himself or for teamates consistently? If not then he can't be a #1 option of your offense.

[HEZI]

thats fair. And someone can dislike or not want him for many reasons. I have no issues with you critizing him as a player. That is your evaluatoin on his talent, when others have a completely different view.

but not picking him because of Frank should be a non existant argument. Kobe played a majority of his early career overseas before the NBA (because of his father). It should have no bairing on evaluating a player.

I don't dislike Hayes I just don't see him being the right pick for us. If there is a team that can afford to take that risk they should go for it but we can't afford to blow this pick and Hayes just isn't worth the gamble.

going safe can also limit your upside

Not true. You can find a more impactful player who has even more upside. Taking a player based on younger age can limit you short and long term. Hayes isn't proven at all whatsoever so there isn't really any justification to take him since he's neither shown nor done anything than some of the other players. On top of that he has way more question marks in terms of transitioning to the NBA.

[RHODEY]

to be fair about Hayes he grew up in France but he is an American. He was born in Lakeland, FL but grew up in France because his father played ball overseas (DeRon Hayes). I personally don't think he has the same passive approach to the game that Frank has.

They are completely different players and not wanting to pick him because of Frank is a silly reason because they play nothing a like.

That aint the reason. His flaws have been discussed already. He aint better than a good amount of guards in this class. Only thing he's got going is his age and the allure of "potential". Expecting some type of impact from him early on would be foolish considering the amount of hurdles he's gotta get over to just become an average NBA guard.

thats fair. And someone can dislike or not want him for many reasons. I have no issues with you critizing him as a player. That is your evaluatoin on his talent, when others have a completely different view.

but not picking him because of Frank should be a non existant argument. Kobe played a majority of his early career overseas before the NBA (because of his father). It should have no bairing on evaluating a player.

Marc Berman has reported that the Knicks have given up French fries and French toast since Frank has signed on with the team ...now the word is that Dolan is threatening to ban French Dressing in the skybooth!....stay tuned

[HEZI]

if that is how Rose is going to evaluate the players he would have to select Haliburton then? He has the lowest floor of all the guards and probably is the least "project" out of all of them.

It all depends on the belief in Haliburtons scoring ability on the next level. There are many reasons to like Haliburton and be high on him so I can see the rationale behind selecting him.

I can as well. I think he is a safe pick. He can shoot, he can defend, he can run an offense.

But his upside is limtied since he is not a dynamic playmaker or athlete and he has a non exhistant mid range game.

Can he be a guy that late in a game he either can get a shot for himself or for teamates consistently? If not then he can't be a #1 option of your offense.

I don't get why a guy like Hayes is given room and time to improve and is worth the gamble but Haliburton is treated as a finished product. The vibe I get from Haliburton is that he's a gym rat and really it's hard to even put a ceiling on him years down the road. His potential is actually higher than Hayes since he's coming into the league with more polished skills and the age difference is just over 1 year. The only reason you say Haliburton is a safe pick is because you feel confident in his ability to step on the NBA court and provide some impact from day 1 but at the end of the day he's still going to be a young rookie with a bunch of improving left.

[mpharris36]

It all depends on the belief in Haliburtons scoring ability on the next level. There are many reasons to like Haliburton and be high on him so I can see the rationale behind selecting him.

I can as well. I think he is a safe pick. He can shoot, he can defend, he can run an offense.

But his upside is limtied since he is not a dynamic playmaker or athlete and he has a non exhistant mid range game.

Can he be a guy that late in a game he either can get a shot for himself or for teamates consistently? If not then he can't be a #1 option of your offense.

I don't get why a guy like Hayes is given room and time to improve and is worth the gamble but Haliburton is treated as a finished product. The vibe I get from Haliburton is that he's a gym rat and really it's hard to even put a ceiling on him years down the road. His potential is actually higher than Hayes since he's coming into the league with more polished skills and the age difference is just over 1 year. The only reason you say Haliburton is a safe pick is because you feel confident in his ability to step on the NBA court and provide some impact from day 1 but at the end of the day he's still going to be a young rookie with a bunch of improving left.

he can and will improve. But he has a set shot for a jumper. How can you translate that to shooting off the dribble. He wont be able to just like Lonzo really can't shoot off the dribble at all and Lonzo is a solid player. And if we are picking 7th or 8th I have no problem with picking a solid long time NBA player. I would feel more comfortable picking Haliburton over Cole Anthony personally.

I like a lot of what Haliburton can bring. But the difference are with the ball even though you knock Hayes, hayes already is more dynamic with the ball in terms of getting into the paint and already having an NBA mid range game with that step back jumper.

I do agree early in there careers (year 1 at least) you probably will get more production out of Haliburton. But if you see the development with hayes we aren't winning anything in the first couple years anyway. You pick the guy that will be better over the longevity of there careers.

[malik959]

Long term project who is going to struggle to find his game in the NBA for a while considering he has some really alarming weaknesses. No right hand, carless sloppy passes that make him a turnover machine, inconsistent jumper, no burst of speed or quickness, soft handles, inconsistent defense.

Knicks have enough long term projects, they need some immediate impact players

Hey so how many publications have Cole Anthony rated as the top 2020 prospect ?

https://medium.com/locked-on-jazz/get-to-know-2017-nba-draft-prospects-donovan-mitchell-706ae79f34c3

Best Case Comparison: Avery Bradley, Norman Powell, Gary Harris

2017 Big Board Ranking
Kevin O’Connor: 11
Chad Ford: 15
Draft Express: 11
Sports Illustrated: 13
CBS Sports: 18

So much for publications

We missed out on one athletic NY born guard, I'd hate to miss out on another just because people say he's not a big time passer.

[HEZI]

I can as well. I think he is a safe pick. He can shoot, he can defend, he can run an offense.

But his upside is limtied since he is not a dynamic playmaker or athlete and he has a non exhistant mid range game.

Can he be a guy that late in a game he either can get a shot for himself or for teamates consistently? If not then he can't be a #1 option of your offense.

I don't get why a guy like Hayes is given room and time to improve and is worth the gamble but Haliburton is treated as a finished product. The vibe I get from Haliburton is that he's a gym rat and really it's hard to even put a ceiling on him years down the road. His potential is actually higher than Hayes since he's coming into the league with more polished skills and the age difference is just over 1 year. The only reason you say Haliburton is a safe pick is because you feel confident in his ability to step on the NBA court and provide some impact from day 1 but at the end of the day he's still going to be a young rookie with a bunch of improving left.

he can and will improve. But he has a set shot for a jumper. How can you translate that to shooting off the dribble. He wont be able to just like Lonzo really can't shoot off the dribble at all and Lonzo is a solid player. And if we are picking 7th or 8th I have no problem with picking a solid long time NBA player. I would feel more comfortable picking Haliburton over Cole Anthony personally.

I like a lot of what Haliburton can bring. But the difference are with the ball even though you knock Hayes, hayes already is more dynamic with the ball in terms of getting into the paint and already having an NBA mid range game with that step back jumper.

I do agree early in there careers (year 1 at least) you probably will get more production out of Haliburton. But if you see the development with hayes we aren't winning anything in the first couple years anyway. You pick the guy that will be better over the longevity of there careers.

Lets get real about Hayes' step back jumper, its a travel and not even Harden gets away with the double step back anymore. Hayes also plants very soft on the jab that's why he results to taking extra steps on his step back. That stuff will not work in the NBA especially for a rookie. He's also very left hand dominant and not very strong on his drives either, he's very finesse and that won't work either.

You are right about Haliburton In terms of iso scoring but that's not what he relies on. He likes to do his work off the ball, give and go, hand offs and move around. I like him more in a secondary playmaker role but not primary but if we open up the floor for RJ and get rid of Randle and put the ball in RJs hands more then the pairing can work. Haliburton really knows how to play off the big man and it's a beauty watching him work off the ball. He's the type of player that would thrive so well on the Warriors and I won't be shocked if they target him with their pick. He's not really an ideal fit for the Knicks though but I can definitely see him being All Star caliber if he lands in the right situation.

[mpharris36]

I don't get why a guy like Hayes is given room and time to improve and is worth the gamble but Haliburton is treated as a finished product. The vibe I get from Haliburton is that he's a gym rat and really it's hard to even put a ceiling on him years down the road. His potential is actually higher than Hayes since he's coming into the league with more polished skills and the age difference is just over 1 year. The only reason you say Haliburton is a safe pick is because you feel confident in his ability to step on the NBA court and provide some impact from day 1 but at the end of the day he's still going to be a young rookie with a bunch of improving left.

he can and will improve. But he has a set shot for a jumper. How can you translate that to shooting off the dribble. He wont be able to just like Lonzo really can't shoot off the dribble at all and Lonzo is a solid player. And if we are picking 7th or 8th I have no problem with picking a solid long time NBA player. I would feel more comfortable picking Haliburton over Cole Anthony personally.

I like a lot of what Haliburton can bring. But the difference are with the ball even though you knock Hayes, hayes already is more dynamic with the ball in terms of getting into the paint and already having an NBA mid range game with that step back jumper.

I do agree early in there careers (year 1 at least) you probably will get more production out of Haliburton. But if you see the development with hayes we aren't winning anything in the first couple years anyway. You pick the guy that will be better over the longevity of there careers.

Lets get real about Hayes' step back jumper, its a travel and not even Harden gets away with the double step back anymore. Hayes also plants very soft on the jab that's why he results to taking extra steps on his step back. That stuff will not work in the NBA especially for a rookie. He's also very left hand dominant and not very strong on his drives either, he's very finesse and that won't work either.

You are right about Haliburton In terms of iso scoring but that's not what he relies on. He likes to do his work off the ball, give and go, hand offs and move around. I like him more in a secondary playmaker role but not primary but if we open up the floor for RJ and get rid of Randle and put the ball in RJs hands more then the pairing can work. Haliburton really knows how to play off the big man and it's a beauty watching him work off the ball. He's the type of player that would thrive so well on the Warriors and I won't be shocked if they target him with their pick. He's not really an ideal fit for the Knicks though but I can definitely see him being All Star caliber if he lands in the right situation.

I agree on all your Haliburton evaluations. I do think you are being over critical on Hayes...getting on him for that step back? You know he wont be called for a travel on that in the NBA

[HEZI]

he can and will improve. But he has a set shot for a jumper. How can you translate that to shooting off the dribble. He wont be able to just like Lonzo really can't shoot off the dribble at all and Lonzo is a solid player. And if we are picking 7th or 8th I have no problem with picking a solid long time NBA player. I would feel more comfortable picking Haliburton over Cole Anthony personally.

I like a lot of what Haliburton can bring. But the difference are with the ball even though you knock Hayes, hayes already is more dynamic with the ball in terms of getting into the paint and already having an NBA mid range game with that step back jumper.

I do agree early in there careers (year 1 at least) you probably will get more production out of Haliburton. But if you see the development with hayes we aren't winning anything in the first couple years anyway. You pick the guy that will be better over the longevity of there careers.

Lets get real about Hayes' step back jumper, its a travel and not even Harden gets away with the double step back anymore. Hayes also plants very soft on the jab that's why he results to taking extra steps on his step back. That stuff will not work in the NBA especially for a rookie. He's also very left hand dominant and not very strong on his drives either, he's very finesse and that won't work either.

You are right about Haliburton In terms of iso scoring but that's not what he relies on. He likes to do his work off the ball, give and go, hand offs and move around. I like him more in a secondary playmaker role but not primary but if we open up the floor for RJ and get rid of Randle and put the ball in RJs hands more then the pairing can work. Haliburton really knows how to play off the big man and it's a beauty watching him work off the ball. He's the type of player that would thrive so well on the Warriors and I won't be shocked if they target him with their pick. He's not really an ideal fit for the Knicks though but I can definitely see him being All Star caliber if he lands in the right situation.

I agree on all your Haliburton evaluations. I do think you are being over critical on Hayes...getting on him for that step back? You know he wont be called for a travel on that in the NBA

Hayes' stepbacks are as slow and as efficient as Julius Randle. Cmon man

[RHODEY]

Hey so how many publications have Cole Anthony rated as the top 2020 prospect ?

https://medium.com/locked-on-jazz/get-to-know-2017-nba-draft-prospects-donovan-mitchell-706ae79f34c3

Best Case Comparison: Avery Bradley, Norman Powell, Gary Harris

2017 Big Board Ranking
Kevin O’Connor: 11
Chad Ford: 15
Draft Express: 11
Sports Illustrated: 13
CBS Sports: 18

So much for publications

We missed out on one athletic NY born guard, I'd hate to miss out on another just because people say he's not a big time passer.

Im more afraid of missing out on a high IQ, two way, playmaking point guard. He could be born on Mars, it wouldnt make difference to me. Ball guards like Cole Anthony's are common...heck-we already have one one our team ...(DSJ).

[RHODEY]

he can and will improve. But he has a set shot for a jumper. How can you translate that to shooting off the dribble. He wont be able to just like Lonzo really can't shoot off the dribble at all and Lonzo is a solid player. And if we are picking 7th or 8th I have no problem with picking a solid long time NBA player. I would feel more comfortable picking Haliburton over Cole Anthony personally.

I like a lot of what Haliburton can bring. But the difference are with the ball even though you knock Hayes, hayes already is more dynamic with the ball in terms of getting into the paint and already having an NBA mid range game with that step back jumper.

I do agree early in there careers (year 1 at least) you probably will get more production out of Haliburton. But if you see the development with hayes we aren't winning anything in the first couple years anyway. You pick the guy that will be better over the longevity of there careers.

Lets get real about Hayes' step back jumper, its a travel and not even Harden gets away with the double step back anymore. Hayes also plants very soft on the jab that's why he results to taking extra steps on his step back. That stuff will not work in the NBA especially for a rookie. He's also very left hand dominant and not very strong on his drives either, he's very finesse and that won't work either.

You are right about Haliburton In terms of iso scoring but that's not what he relies on. He likes to do his work off the ball, give and go, hand offs and move around. I like him more in a secondary playmaker role but not primary but if we open up the floor for RJ and get rid of Randle and put the ball in RJs hands more then the pairing can work. Haliburton really knows how to play off the big man and it's a beauty watching him work off the ball. He's the type of player that would thrive so well on the Warriors and I won't be shocked if they target him with their pick. He's not really an ideal fit for the Knicks though but I can definitely see him being All Star caliber if he lands in the right situation.

I agree on all your Haliburton evaluations. I do think you are being over critical on Hayes...getting on him for that step back? You know he wont be called for a travel on that in the NBA

[HEZI]

https://medium.com/locked-on-jazz/get-to-know-2017-nba-draft-prospects-donovan-mitchell-706ae79f34c3





So much for publications

We missed out on one athletic NY born guard, I'd hate to miss out on another just because people say he's not a big time passer.

Im more afraid of missing out on a high IQ, two way, playmaking point guard. He could be born on Mars, it wouldnt make difference to me. Ball guards like Cole Anthony's are common...heck-we already have one one our team ...(DSJ).

Fill in the blank type of statements when you are searching for actual skills to add in there. You can easily say Hayes has poor IQ because of his mistakes, he has some really questionable decision making. Yeah ok, we will see how two way he is when he has to defend guards in the NBA with actual elite skills and on top of that he's gotta actually be able to have a reliable offense to be considered 2 way. Playmaking? His assist to turnover ratio is not good at all. For all the knocks on Cole for his playmaking, Hayes is right there with him in terms of assist to turnover. So really what's Hayes elite skill set that separates him from the rest of the pack? He really has none. Cole is a much better shooter, a lot quicker and a lot more athletic than him. They are very close in terms of playmaking and Hayes is just as inconsistent on defense.

Simply put, Cole is a better player than Hayes

[HarthorneWingo]

Lets get real about Hayes' step back jumper, its a travel and not even Harden gets away with the double step back anymore. Hayes also plants very soft on the jab that's why he results to taking extra steps on his step back. That stuff will not work in the NBA especially for a rookie. He's also very left hand dominant and not very strong on his drives either, he's very finesse and that won't work either.

You are right about Haliburton In terms of iso scoring but that's not what he relies on. He likes to do his work off the ball, give and go, hand offs and move around. I like him more in a secondary playmaker role but not primary but if we open up the floor for RJ and get rid of Randle and put the ball in RJs hands more then the pairing can work. Haliburton really knows how to play off the big man and it's a beauty watching him work off the ball. He's the type of player that would thrive so well on the Warriors and I won't be shocked if they target him with their pick. He's not really an ideal fit for the Knicks though but I can definitely see him being All Star caliber if he lands in the right situation.

I agree on all your Haliburton evaluations. I do think you are being over critical on Hayes...getting on him for that step back? You know he wont be called for a travel on that in the NBA

Hayes' stepbacks are as slow and as efficient as Julius Randle. Cmon man

It does look like Randle’s!

[HEZI]

I agree on all your Haliburton evaluations. I do think you are being over critical on Hayes...getting on him for that step back? You know he wont be called for a travel on that in the NBA

Hayes' stepbacks are as slow and as efficient as Julius Randle. Cmon man

It does look like Randle’s!

[WargamesX]

Hey so how many publications have Cole Anthony rated as the top 2020 prospect ?

https://medium.com/locked-on-jazz/get-to-know-2017-nba-draft-prospects-donovan-mitchell-706ae79f34c3

Best Case Comparison: Avery Bradley, Norman Powell, Gary Harris

2017 Big Board Ranking
Kevin O’Connor: 11
Chad Ford: 15
Draft Express: 11
Sports Illustrated: 13
CBS Sports: 18

So much for publications

We missed out on one athletic NY born guard, I'd hate to miss out on another just because people say he's not a big time passer.

Cole Anthony couldn't average over 5 assists on a Roy Williams's coached UNC Tarheels squad.........think about that.

Research all the UNC Tarheel point guards that were drafted in the first round in the last several years and see their college assist numbers, then check out Cole Anthony's. Cole ain't a PG. They know it too because they are considering paying 85 million to have CP3 teach him. Its a bad decision, leading to another bad decision.

All because they didn't draft Donovan? Its a pure lolknicks move.

[RHODEY]

https://medium.com/locked-on-jazz/get-to-know-2017-nba-draft-prospects-donovan-mitchell-706ae79f34c3





So much for publications

We missed out on one athletic NY born guard, I'd hate to miss out on another just because people say he's not a big time passer.

Cole Anthony couldn't average over 5 assists on a Roy Williams's coached UNC Tarheels squad.........think about that.

Research all the UNC Tarheel point guards that were drafted in the first round in the last several years and see their college assist numbers, then check out Cole Anthony's. Cole ain't a PG. They know it too because they are considering paying 85 million to have CP3 teach him. Its a bad decision, leading to another bad decision.

All because they didn't draft Donovan? Its a pure lolknicks move.

Preach.

[HEZI]

https://medium.com/locked-on-jazz/get-to-know-2017-nba-draft-prospects-donovan-mitchell-706ae79f34c3





So much for publications

We missed out on one athletic NY born guard, I'd hate to miss out on another just because people say he's not a big time passer.

Cole Anthony couldn't average over 5 assists on a Roy Williams's coached UNC Tarheels squad.........think about that.

Research all the UNC Tarheel point guards that were drafted in the first round in the last several years and see their college assist numbers, then check out Cole Anthony's. Cole ain't a PG. They know it too because they are considering paying 85 million to have CP3 teach him. Its a bad decision, leading to another bad decision.

All because they didn't draft Donovan? Its a pure lolknicks move.

“We stunk, OK. We were not very good,” Williams said after a home loss to Georgia Tech. “The crazy thing about it is, our team, and we’ve had some very gifted teams, this is not a very gifted team. It’s just not.”

This is the first 8-6 start in North Carolina’s history under Williams, who took over the program in 2003.
Williams said this year’s team is the “the least gifted team I’ve ever coached in the time that I’ve been back here.”
That’s harsh, but he’s probably not wrong. Outside of Anthony, who’s out indefinitely, there are not many playmakers on this UNC team.

North Carolina will look to get back on track on Wednesday against Pitt.

From the horses mouth

[RHODEY]

We missed out on one athletic NY born guard, I'd hate to miss out on another just because people say he's not a big time passer.

Im more afraid of missing out on a high IQ, two way, playmaking point guard. He could be born on Mars, it wouldnt make difference to me. Ball guards like Cole Anthony's are common...heck-we already have one one our team ...(DSJ).

Fill in the blank type of statements when you are searching for actual skills to add in there. You can easily say Hayes has poor IQ because of his mistakes, he has some really questionable decision making. Yeah ok, we will see how two way he is when he has to defend guards in the NBA with actual elite skills and on top of that he's gotta actually be able to have a reliable offense to be considered 2 way. Playmaking? His assist to turnover ratio is not good at all. For all the knocks on Cole for his playmaking, Hayes is right there with him in terms of assist to turnover. So really what's Hayes elite skill set that separates him from the rest of the pack? He really has none. Cole is a much better shooter, a lot quicker and a lot more athletic than him. They are very close in terms of playmaking and Hayes is just as inconsistent on defense.

Simply put, Cole is a better player than Hayes

[HEZI]

Im more afraid of missing out on a high IQ, two way, playmaking point guard. He could be born on Mars, it wouldnt make difference to me. Ball guards like Cole Anthony's are common...heck-we already have one one our team ...(DSJ).

Fill in the blank type of statements when you are searching for actual skills to add in there. You can easily say Hayes has poor IQ because of his mistakes, he has some really questionable decision making. Yeah ok, we will see how two way he is when he has to defend guards in the NBA with actual elite skills and on top of that he's gotta actually be able to have a reliable offense to be considered 2 way. Playmaking? His assist to turnover ratio is not good at all. For all the knocks on Cole for his playmaking, Hayes is right there with him in terms of assist to turnover. So really what's Hayes elite skill set that separates him from the rest of the pack? He really has none. Cole is a much better shooter, a lot quicker and a lot more athletic than him. They are very close in terms of playmaking and Hayes is just as inconsistent on defense.

Simply put, Cole is a better player than Hayes