OT: Cops kill George Floyd

[Fat Kat]

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From a few days ago. Did a great job verbalizing the frustrations a lots of folks have.

[Lord Commander]

This garbage coming up on my feed, apparently this person is popular?

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I am seeing a lot of Floyd bashing today. This is not about Floyd, this is bigger than any one person. They want to discredit the movement.

Self-hating skank.

[Pointgod]

Hey all I know we argue back and forth but I’ve been trying to make more productive posts. So take some time to look these up and share with friends and family.

Here are places you can donate.

Know your rights campaign
https://knowyourrightscamp.com/legal

Go Fund Me for George Floyd
https://ca.gofundme.com/f/georgefloyd

Minnesota Freedom Fund
https://minnesotafreedomfund.org/donate

Help rebuild black businesses
https://www.gofundme.com/f/protesters-and-bond-funds

Here are sources to educate yourself and others about how to combat police brutality and systemic racism.

https://blacklivesmatter.com
https://www.joincampaignzero.org/research
http://useofforceproject.org/#review
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
https://medium.com/equality-includes-you/what-white-people-can-do-for-racial-justice-f2d18b0e0234

[thebuzzardman]

Well if there is, it was not presented other than “it’s out of the playbook” and “I wouldn’t be surprised if” which is not evidence-based (just remembered that this was one of the 7 words trump banned from the CDC) and not more than speculation. If they had any it would be in your face every single day. And even then I’d probably approach it with a great deal of skepticism.

I typed my comment before I watched the Kulinski video, was surprised at how much his analysis lined up with my own, except he knocked it out of the park with the points about exceptionalism and reluctance to own it so we can change and do better. I don’t watch him much but yeah, nice one KK.

His points can be valid and everything the Russians are doing is true, at the same time. In fact, that's generally how it works. I think it's a mistake to think that acknowledging one voids concerns over the others. But I've seen that stance from other progressives in the media before, so I'm not surprised. It's as if they are so defensive over their stances - which they probably should be, since the mainstream tends to not give them proper attention, that they rush to talk down stuff like this.

This guy can do his thing. I'll work on holding two different thoughts in my head at the sametime. Three if you include the Knicks!

I'm not saying we can't have tons of thoughts about possibilities at the same time. But if I approach this situation using occam's razor I'm inclined to go with the explanation that requires the fewest assumptions and feel very confident in concluding that this is organic outrage that has a material framework with a contradiction in society with a thesis (police brutality and 400 yrs of racist policy) an antithesis (justifiable public outrage at the system) resulting in the synthesis of resulting chaos and appropriate backlash that does not require additional outside provocation to be the most likely explanation for what we're experiencing. Obviously if new evidence surfaces that would be the time I'd consider it further.

Another thing we have to consider is if say we do find out that they did unleash a bot farm to sow divisions, exactly how impactful was it and how much focus and attention should that take off of the incident and our ownership of it as a society, and should we make an ineffective effort the focus of our reaction to these events

Yeah, I think I basically covered your response before you responded.

[robillionaire]

Hey all I know we argue back and forth but I’ve been trying to make more productive posts. So take some time to look these up and share with friends and family.

Here are places you can donate.

Know your rights campaign
https://knowyourrightscamp.com/legal

Go Fund Me for George Floyd
https://ca.gofundme.com/f/georgefloyd

Minnesota Freedom Fund
https://minnesotafreedomfund.org/donate

Help rebuild black businesses
https://www.gofundme.com/f/protesters-and-bond-funds

Here are sources to educate yourself and others about how to combat police brutality and systemic racism.

https://blacklivesmatter.com
https://www.joincampaignzero.org/research
http://useofforceproject.org/#review
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
https://medium.com/equality-includes-you/what-white-people-can-do-for-racial-justice-f2d18b0e0234

Thanks for this, good compilation

[thebuzzardman]

I'm not saying we can't have tons of thoughts about possibilities at the same time. But if I approach this situation using occam's razor I'm inclined to go with the explanation that requires the fewest assumptions and feel very confident in concluding that this is organic outrage that has a material framework with a contradiction in society with a thesis (police brutality and 400 yrs of racist policy) an antithesis (justifiable public outrage at the system) resulting in the synthesis of resulting chaos and appropriate backlash that does not require additional outside provocation to be the most likely explanation for what we're experiencing. Obviously if new evidence surfaces that would be the time I'd consider it further.

Another thing we have to consider is if say we do find out that they did unleash a bot farm to sow divisions, exactly how impactful was it and how much focus and attention should that take off of the incident and our ownership of it as a society, and should we make an ineffective effort the focus of our reaction to these events

Inform yourself then.

I find it hard to believe you're saying you'll listen when there is evidence.

Mueller indicted a Russian Bot Farm for Election Meddling

This is OLD news

It is a shame to let your biases block out what is patently obvious and already well documented

Here, you can download the indictment in full

https://www.scribd.com/document/371674609/Internet-Research-Agency-Indictment

We aren’t talking about the election. We are talking about this particular incident that the thread is about. (the police murder of george floyd, and the public response)

To Clydes point, the disinformation, and possibly even backing of radicalized left and right wing people would be moving fast, so I get why Clyde says it's important.

Trump always moves quickly on the disinformation tip and the Russians are right there and there is a kind of synergy. Again, I was away for quite a while so I might be replying out of order or this has been covered or resolved.

Again, lets get it out of the way that I KNOW and it's CLEAR these are endemic things/thier own incident. The Russians are also very adept and willing to leverage this stuff, and being a strong authoritarian to the scary blacks and leftists is about all he's got left in the toolbag to get re-elected and the Russians are going to work hard and fast to get behind that because that's their guy that gets their goals done (America being weakened). Even Trumps racist responses are their own organic thing they get in with.

So, let's have a 3 way (heh) compromise here.

It's clearly the incident that needs to be the focus
The incident is about endemic racism, all on it's own
It's not wrong for a national security expert to bring this up, based on not only what happened in 2016, but ever since
Even with item #3 being true (lets assume), the incident itself didn't need this right away, better to wait a week, but not TOO long

However, since propaganda moves fast and Trump will move fast to make this a racist crusade and the Russians will help

[thebuzzardman]

In a more positive note, that's my cousin on the trumpet:

https://nypost.com/2020/06/03/george-floyd-protesters-in-nyc-kneel-during-national-anthem/

[Pointgod]

This garbage coming up on my feed, apparently this person is popular?

Watch on YouTube

I am seeing a lot of Floyd bashing today. This is not about Floyd, this is bigger than any one person. They want to discredit the movement.

Self-hating skank.

Candace Owens is a soul less ghoul that is 110% grifting racist right wing idiots. You want to know how she’s full of ****? She sued her College for racial discrimination.

https://newsone.com/3848636/candace-owens-receipts-con-artist/

[ibraheim718]

This garbage coming up on my feed, apparently this person is popular?

Watch on YouTube

I am seeing a lot of Floyd bashing today. This is not about Floyd, this is bigger than any one person. They want to discredit the movement.

The movement needs to morph into a movement about not only racism but classism. It needs to happen fast. And when it does it will pull the older generations into it. The soul of the revolution (when it begins and if it's to succeed) needs to be between the have's and the never will have or the have nots.

[Stannis]

Sad but true.

[robillionaire]

Inform yourself then.

I find it hard to believe you're saying you'll listen when there is evidence.

Mueller indicted a Russian Bot Farm for Election Meddling

This is OLD news

It is a shame to let your biases block out what is patently obvious and already well documented

Here, you can download the indictment in full

https://www.scribd.com/document/371674609/Internet-Research-Agency-Indictment

We aren’t talking about the election. We are talking about this particular incident that the thread is about. (the police murder of george floyd, and the public response)

To Clydes point, the disinformation, and possibly even backing of radicalized left and right wing people would be moving fast, so I get why Clyde says it's important.

Trump always moves quickly on the disinformation tip and the Russians are right there and there is a kind of synergy. Again, I was away for quite a while so I might be replying out of order or this has been covered or resolved.

Again, lets get it out of the way that I KNOW and it's CLEAR these are endemic things/thier own incident. The Russians are also very adept and willing to leverage this stuff, and being a strong authoritarian to the scary blacks and leftists is about all he's got left in the toolbag to get re-elected and the Russians are going to work hard and fast to get behind that because that's their guy that gets their goals done (America being weakened). Even Trumps racist responses are their own organic thing they get in with.

So, let's have a 3 way (heh) compromise here.

It's clearly the incident that needs to be the focus
The incident is about endemic racism, all on it's own
It's not wrong for a national security expert to bring this up, based on not only what happened in 2016, but ever since
Even with item #3 being true (lets assume), the incident itself didn't need this right away, better to wait a week, but not TOO long

However, since propaganda moves fast and Trump will move fast to make this a racist crusade and the Russians will help

Nah it's nice to have your opinion on it. I don't think it's entirely wrong to bring it up, although I do agree with your position that it could have waited. But my issue is that people might watch that back and forth between her and Wolf Blitzer and use that as some sort of justification to claim that foreign agitators are the driving force behind the protest when they aren't. There's nothing being brought to the table that even suggests that is the case, and I think that would also be a mischaracterization of what she's saying as she readily admits she hasn't even looked at any intelligence on it before making the suggestion which appears to be more as a "be on the lookout" type of statement. Personally I think it would have been more responsible for her to at least actually look at the intel, because you have to know that even the suggestion will invoke hysteria from people who wrongly make that leap, which discredits the protest. Anyway I'm good with leaving it there if that's cool with you

[robillionaire]

This garbage coming up on my feed, apparently this person is popular?

Watch on YouTube

I am seeing a lot of Floyd bashing today. This is not about Floyd, this is bigger than any one person. They want to discredit the movement.

The movement needs to morph into a movement about not only racism but classism. It needs to happen fast. And when it does it will pull the older generations into it. The soul of the revolution (when it begins and if it's to succeed) needs to be between the have's and the never will have or the have nots.

Nothing in the world they would fear more than racial and class solidarity, they've stomped that out all through history

[Stannis]

This garbage coming up on my feed, apparently this person is popular?

Watch on YouTube

I am seeing a lot of Floyd bashing today. This is not about Floyd, this is bigger than any one person. They want to discredit the movement.

The movement needs to morph into a movement about not only racism but classism. It needs to happen fast. And when it does it will pull the older generations into it. The soul of the revolution (when it begins and if it's to succeed) needs to be between the have's and the never will have or the have nots.

Yea, the kinda stuff isn't being talked about right now.

The wealth cap is only getting bigger.

And the USA spends twice as much on "law and order" than social welfare.

[Clyde_Style]

The movement needs to morph into a movement about not only racism but classism. It needs to happen fast. And when it does it will pull the older generations into it. The soul of the revolution (when it begins and if it's to succeed) needs to be between the have's and the never will have or the have nots.

Yes

Race has always been used to divide people who can and probably should have common cause

American history is quite a hurdle in the way of class consciousness

[ibraheim718]

This garbage coming up on my feed, apparently this person is popular?

Watch on YouTube

I am seeing a lot of Floyd bashing today. This is not about Floyd, this is bigger than any one person. They want to discredit the movement.

The movement needs to morph into a movement about not only racism but classism. It needs to happen fast. And when it does it will pull the older generations into it. The soul of the revolution (when it begins and if it's to succeed) needs to be between the have's and the never will have or the have nots.

Nothing in the world they would fear more than racial and class solidarity, they've stomped that out all through history

As I went about my today that's what I thought about. That's the heart of the issue.

In every aspect of our society if you have money or wealth you have the opportunity to have a better quality of life.

Think about what money can get you..

Better legal representation

Better food

Better health care

Better education

Better shelter

What that means to me? If a person WANTS more... that means another will HAVE even less. There is no self-regulation. People don't have the discipline to resist the darker parts of their human nature.

But on the flip side I think it's been proven that poorer people are happier.

I say embrace who we are. Enjoy life. But if somebody is acting a fool.. blatant racism or blatant classism or just being a straight up **** those that are afforded the opportunity have to stomp it out.. it's their responsibility.

[HarthorneWingo]

I'll have a Link Wray, baby. Lay it on me.

Watch on YouTube

I saw him live a couple of times. Once I made a weekday road trip from Philly to NYC in the late '80s and saw him at The Lone Star Cafe (no longer around) in the Village. The other time was sometime post-2000 in Philadelphia. By that time, Link, sadly, has the old man's rock and roll shuffle. But he still sounded great.

[ibraheim718]

This garbage coming up on my feed, apparently this person is popular?

Watch on YouTube

I am seeing a lot of Floyd bashing today. This is not about Floyd, this is bigger than any one person. They want to discredit the movement.

The movement needs to morph into a movement about not only racism but classism. It needs to happen fast. And when it does it will pull the older generations into it. The soul of the revolution (when it begins and if it's to succeed) needs to be between the have's and the never will have or the have nots.

Yea, the kinda stuff isn't being talked about right now.

The wealth cap is only getting bigger.

And the USA spends twice as much on "law and order" than social welfare.

And who is in those lower income classes? The majority are minorities.. I think upwards of about 60%.

Our country is a unique one with so many different social challenges. My struggle is I'm 100% Puerto Rican from a low income broken home and I look like a white guy. I've struggled with an identity crisis my whole life.

[robillionaire]

The movement needs to morph into a movement about not only racism but classism. It needs to happen fast. And when it does it will pull the older generations into it. The soul of the revolution (when it begins and if it's to succeed) needs to be between the have's and the never will have or the have nots.

Nothing in the world they would fear more than racial and class solidarity, they've stomped that out all through history

As I went about my today that's what I thought about. That's the heart of the issue.

In every aspect of our society if you have money or wealth you have the opportunity to have a better quality of life.

Think about what money can get you..

Better legal representation

Better food

Better health care

Better education

Better shelter

What that means to me? If a person WANTS more... that means another will HAVE even less. There is no self-regulation. People don't have the discipline to resist the darker parts of their human nature.

But on the flip side I think it's been proven that poorer people are happier.

I say embrace who we are. Enjoy life. But if somebody is acting a fool.. blatant racism or blatant classism or just being a straight up **** those that are afforded the opportunity have to stomp it out.. it's their responsibility.

This could be a great conversation that unfortunately I can't carry on because I had 2 hours of sleep last night and it's all going dark around me. But I will say this, I dispute that what you are experiencing is our true human nature, and I would say this greed that we feel is more of a product of our environment and what we all must do for survival as we have been placed in constant competition with each other in a zero sum game. This is not our nature. Humans were hunter gatherers, even through the process of human evolution for survival we are people of social cohesion empathy and cooperation central to human behavior and studies show we all have a sense of fairness in us. But we are trapped on a monopoly board of a system that makes us believe we all have this inherent darkness to take everything and leave others with nothing. A better world is possible.

Now this isn't to say we can be class reductionists and think that will solve racism. I think historically it had a factor in creating racism and race science as the aristocrats justification for the atlantic slave trade and I think you can draw a line from that to where we are today although I'm not going to do it. But black oppression and leaders and stomping out racism must be at the forefront. Because we know black people have every justification to not want to trust an agenda from their oppressor that just tells them to focus on class when they're basically experiencing a tragic genocide. I second what buzz suggested, everybody should read the new jim crow. That needs to be mandatory reading in schools. anyway i'm off my soapbox

[ellobo]

I'll have a Link Wray, baby. Lay it on me.

Watch on YouTube

I saw him live a couple of times. Once I made a weekday road trip from Philly to NYC in the late '80s and saw him at The Lone Star Cafe (no longer around) in the Village. The other time was sometime post-2000 in Philadelphia. By that time, Link, sadly, has the old man's rock and roll shuffle. But he still sounded great.

I saw/heard a lot of great music at the Lone Star Cafe when it was around. I play guitar a little and I tend to put tremolo on everything because of Link Wray.

[RHODEY]

The movement needs to morph into a movement about not only racism but classism. It needs to happen fast. And when it does it will pull the older generations into it. The soul of the revolution (when it begins and if it's to succeed) needs to be between the have's and the never will have or the have nots.

Yea, the kinda stuff isn't being talked about right now.

The wealth cap is only getting bigger.

And the USA spends twice as much on "law and order" than social welfare.

And who is in those lower income classes? The majority are minorities.. I think upwards of about 60%.

Our country is a unique one with so many different social challenges. My struggle is I'm 100% Puerto Rican from a low income broken home and I look like a white guy. I've struggled with an identity crisis my whole life.

The whole race versus class discussion....I think race generally trumps class and pretty much everything else since skin and phenotype are visible indicators. They tell a person "how" to treat and perceive someone based on the global racial caste system.

Wealth can make a big difference, only in so much as it can mitigate some of the negative stigma of the physical racial indicators and "buy" better perception and treatment.

If foundational American Blacks were given all the wealth that was stolen from their enslaved ancestors that built America, would they face less mistreatment? Maybe... better treatment but I guessing a hell of a lot more resentment.

Racist by definition will prioritize "race" first In my opinion. Ifthey are less powerful those they want to mistreat it wont matter though . It might be similar to Jews. I would say they get better treatment but get a lot of resentful hate. But it doesn't really matter because they are powerful as a group.

But I could be wrong and you might be onto to something. MLK was taken out right after proposing the war on poverty.