2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2

[TerrenceClarke]

I disagree with this part. I think trading up for Lamelo or PWill in a weaker draft last year made more sense than trading up in a draft like this one. This year the cost will be higher because the top talents have less question marks and the talents still available in the mid-1st are going to be more interesting than some of the kids who went top 10 last year.

Though the ultimate decider in this would be the exact cost, which we won't have a good idea of until we see where everyone will be picking when everything's said & done.

what ever the cost would be would always be lower than trading for a LaVine or other star so this point is moot to me.

Listen, if you would rather have a bunch Butlers vs Getting a Keon Johnson or Zaire etc who I know you like, hey what can i say. That for sure is not my prefence at all if GIVEN the opportunity and its within reason.

It's not that binary. Though I agree trading away our surplus now would be a mistake...it would be a mistake to sell the farm for a Lavine just as much as it be a mistake to sell the farm for Ziaire/Bouknight. It's just too earlier for us to be consolidating our assets unless the value is so favorable that increases the total value of our asset-pool...which is why I keep circling back to what the exact would actually be.

Like ATM tankathon has both Keon & Butler available at our picks and I'd much rather draft those two before trying to trade up from the Pistons pick into Quickley-Range to grad Boston or Brown...failing that, just using it on Scottie Lewis...than packaging all 3 picks with Obi for Ziaire, Moody or Bouknight; even though I like all 3 a lot. OTOH if the cost to turn Boston/Brown/Butler into Ziaire/Bouknight/Moody/Keon was just a future SRP & Knox; we'd be fools not to do it.

yeah because that package will net a Moody. Pick the most unrealistic package and then say if thats all it takes we'd be fools not to do it. Come on.

I sound like a broken record. If the package is reasonable I do it. If its not, then you go to the races with three horses. Its that simple to me.

I don't think it would necessarily be shortsighted if moving up got us one of those top-tier talents

You already agreed as much to the original point I made, that its NOT short sighted to try to get back in the lottery if you can. I saw you say that earlier. This all started because I said its not short sighted to that poster....since you already agreed then, its really moot about anything else in particular.

packaging all 3 picks with Obi for Ziaire, Moody or Bouknight; even though I like all 3 a lot.

also Lets be real, if the Knicks did that you would not cry foul....and you know that. It may not be something YOU would do, but it also would not cripple this franchise either. I think your smart enough to realize that. we still go forward with all our future picks and pick up a stud wing. Obi will be on the Bench for the near future, He is easily replaced with a low tier free agent or even buying a second round pick in this draft.

[cgf]

what ever the cost would be would always be lower than trading for a LaVine or other star so this point is moot to me.

Listen, if you would rather have a bunch Butlers vs Getting a Keon Johnson or Zaire etc who I know you like, hey what can i say. That for sure is not my prefence at all if GIVEN the opportunity and its within reason.

It's not that binary. Though I agree trading away our surplus now would be a mistake...it would be a mistake to sell the farm for a Lavine just as much as it be a mistake to sell the farm for Ziaire/Bouknight. It's just too earlier for us to be consolidating our assets unless the value is so favorable that increases the total value of our asset-pool...which is why I keep circling back to what the exact would actually be.

Like ATM tankathon has both Keon & Butler available at our picks and I'd much rather draft those two before trying to trade up from the Pistons pick into Quickley-Range to grad Boston or Brown...failing that, just using it on Scottie Lewis...than packaging all 3 picks with Obi for Ziaire, Moody or Bouknight; even though I like all 3 a lot. OTOH if the cost to turn Boston/Brown/Butler into Ziaire/Bouknight/Moody/Keon was just a future SRP & Knox; we'd be fools not to do it.

yeah because that package will net a Moody. Pick the most unrealistic package and then say if thats all it takes we'd be fools not to do it. Come on.

I sound like a broken record. If the package is reasonable I do it. If its not, then you go to the races with three horses. Its that simple to me.

I don't think it would necessarily be shortsighted if moving up got us one of those top-tier talents

You already agreed as much to the original point I made, that its NOT short sighted to try to get back in the lottery if you can. I saw you say that earlier. This all started because I said its not short sighted to that poster....since you already agreed then, its really moot about anything else in particular.

packaging all 3 picks with Obi for Ziaire, Moody or Bouknight; even though I like all 3 a lot.

also Lets be real, if the Knicks did that you would not cry foul....and you know that. It may not be something YOU would do, but it also would not cripple this franchise either. I think your smart enough to realize that. we still go forward with all our future picks and pick up a stud wing. Obi will be on the Bench for the near future, He is easily replaced with a low tier free agent or even buying a second round pick in this draft.

I agree with both of you in parts, as I think both of you have valid points but are more extreme in your positions than I am...which is why I keep going back to the actual price being the deciding factor. And yeah that was a completely unrealistic hypothetical, but I was just trying to reiterate the point that it's the pricetag context of each draft that should determine things, not just an ideological preference for more swings or better swings.

I probably wouldn't cry foul cause I (with rare exceptions) don't like judging FOs for individual moves...or before they've had time to re-shape their teams in the mold that they want...but I would probably be disappointed if we did move Obi and all 3 picks we currently control, without landing one of the top 5; even if it got us one of my tier 2 favs. Kinda like with the Obi pick, I've mentioned that he wouldn't have been my guy, but since it happened I've never really cried foul & generally tried to look for the positives...or at least tried to figure what the team's scouts were seeing that I didn't.

[TerrenceClarke]

It's not that binary. Though I agree trading away our surplus now would be a mistake...it would be a mistake to sell the farm for a Lavine just as much as it be a mistake to sell the farm for Ziaire/Bouknight. It's just too earlier for us to be consolidating our assets unless the value is so favorable that increases the total value of our asset-pool...which is why I keep circling back to what the exact would actually be.

Like ATM tankathon has both Keon & Butler available at our picks and I'd much rather draft those two before trying to trade up from the Pistons pick into Quickley-Range to grad Boston or Brown...failing that, just using it on Scottie Lewis...than packaging all 3 picks with Obi for Ziaire, Moody or Bouknight; even though I like all 3 a lot. OTOH if the cost to turn Boston/Brown/Butler into Ziaire/Bouknight/Moody/Keon was just a future SRP & Knox; we'd be fools not to do it.

yeah because that package will net a Moody. Pick the most unrealistic package and then say if thats all it takes we'd be fools not to do it. Come on.

I sound like a broken record. If the package is reasonable I do it. If its not, then you go to the races with three horses. Its that simple to me.

I don't think it would necessarily be shortsighted if moving up got us one of those top-tier talents

You already agreed as much to the original point I made, that its NOT short sighted to try to get back in the lottery if you can. I saw you say that earlier. This all started because I said its not short sighted to that poster....since you already agreed then, its really moot about anything else in particular.

packaging all 3 picks with Obi for Ziaire, Moody or Bouknight; even though I like all 3 a lot.

also Lets be real, if the Knicks did that you would not cry foul....and you know that. It may not be something YOU would do, but it also would not cripple this franchise either. I think your smart enough to realize that. we still go forward with all our future picks and pick up a stud wing. Obi will be on the Bench for the near future, He is easily replaced with a low tier free agent or even buying a second round pick in this draft.

I agree with both of you in parts, as I think both of you have valid points but are more extreme in your positions than I am...which is why I keep going back to the actual price being the deciding factor. And yeah that was a completely unrealistic hypothetical, but I was just trying to reiterate the point that it's the pricetag context of each draft that should determine things, not just an ideological preference for more swings or better swings.

I probably wouldn't cry foul cause I (with rare exceptions) don't like judging FOs for individual moves...or before they've had time to re-shape their teams in the mold that they want...but I would probably be disappointed if we did move Obi and all 3 picks we currently control, without landing one of the top 5; even if it got us one of my tier 2 favs. Kinda like with the Obi pick, I've mentioned that he wouldn't have been my guy, but since it happened I've never really cried foul & generally tried to look for the positives...or at least tried to figure what the team's scouts were seeing that I didn't.

Just imagine Zaire getting stronger in his first Year or BouKnight ability to score all over the court especially with his supreme layup package. The disappointment will leave soon.

[stuporman]

another cant read expert. Who said Top 5 was where we was trading to.

Bouknight is not top 5 neither is Moody etc etc and those are possible gets for us.

The simple fact is this. Look at the top 50 players currently in the NBA, the far majority of them were taken in the lottery. Those are the stats/trends I pay attention to. How many of the top 50 players in the NBA were picked outside of the lottery is far far lower than lottery. Its really that simple. The odds will always be in favor of Lottery Talent being a star than not. Knicks Needs Elite prospects not a bunch of solid players if given the chance. We have a bunch of "solid" players.if Knicks get a chance to get back in the lottery they should take the chance....instead of putting all marbles into one basket hoping to find a "gem" which is more a crap shoot than finding a "star" in the lotto.

Every year there are people who think they know who will or won't be 'elite' then disappear into the void afterwards when they are wrong or even worse they go on to the next year's draft saying the same type stuff acting like their opinion means anything.

Telling people how you liked this guy or that guy after the fact isn't proof of anything so spare me the back dated self promoting rhetoric. You want to imagine all the trades that you want to happen and then blame teams when they don't do them is pretty par for the course on forums but not rooted in reality.

Bouknight might be great, maybe even a Reggie Miller level type of scorer... or he might become a bench guy that doesn't do anything else well enough to make him a starter. Potential doesn't always get filled and we are talking about kids with more than just potential and talent involved that allows them to develop.

Randle is on his 3rd team after the first two didn't resign him before he became an allstar even though he was a lottery pick and Jokic was taken with a 2nd round pick so probabilities are fine in general but without context they don't tell the whole story.

You just showed up in Nov of 2020, unless you care to share your previous handles, and you might have had a ton of chitakes you are running from so don't tell me your opinion history if you can't back it up with evidence. No receipts then no respect.

Good day sir!


EDIT: Wait.... s h i i t a k e mushrooms is a censored word? Then how am I going to share my recipes on here?

No respect for a person on my end who wants a bunch of Brunsons either.....


Knicks lack elite talent. We are fine in the middle of the road talent department already. We got a surplus of that.

So what's wrong with a PG who gets 12.8/3.4/3.3 on 53%/42%/85% in 24mins and is a decent defender even for his size when he's hardly ever the primary ball handler with Luka around? The Knicks have plenty of those? The situation improved with drafting IQ and trading for Rose but your assessment of players seems suspect so keep your respect for yourself, you need it.

What's your banned handle? Or are you running away from your previous garbage takes? Ballboys like you are a dime a dozen and you'll be on your next handle as soon as your opinions get exposed like last time.

[stuporman]

This Ziaire has a lot more skill & BBIQ, despite lacking strength. But more than his tools & stroke, it's what he has going for him above the shoulders that makes this kid so much more Brandon Ingram / Patrick Williams than Kevin Knox / Cam Reddish. He'll need time to learn further and (most-importantly) fill out, but his game is a lot more intelligent / skillful / advanced than you're making him out to be...aka this isn't a kid who needs to learn how to basketball, he just needs time to develop his body & polish the game he already has.

That Zhaire was a lot more like Greg Brown III; who has the length & athleticism, with a workable shot, but whose sense for the game is very underdeveloped & is miles away from being a similar threat shooting off the bounce.

I didn't 'make him out to be' anything.... I just pointed at a past example in comparison to current circumstance and a little bit of data from it. It's others who are making him out to be something and I'm just commenting on it....not even doubting it, just questioning it.

And it was a bad comparison that detracted from the valid point which you were in the middle of making

There was alot of moving parts I was trying to navigate to come up with a comparison that had some coherence on the principle of it so every detail wasn't going to be a perfect fit and if you are focusing too much on that you missed the point completely.

[TerrenceClarke]

Every year there are people who think they know who will or won't be 'elite' then disappear into the void afterwards when they are wrong or even worse they go on to the next year's draft saying the same type stuff acting like their opinion means anything.

Telling people how you liked this guy or that guy after the fact isn't proof of anything so spare me the back dated self promoting rhetoric. You want to imagine all the trades that you want to happen and then blame teams when they don't do them is pretty par for the course on forums but not rooted in reality.

Bouknight might be great, maybe even a Reggie Miller level type of scorer... or he might become a bench guy that doesn't do anything else well enough to make him a starter. Potential doesn't always get filled and we are talking about kids with more than just potential and talent involved that allows them to develop.

Randle is on his 3rd team after the first two didn't resign him before he became an allstar even though he was a lottery pick and Jokic was taken with a 2nd round pick so probabilities are fine in general but without context they don't tell the whole story.

You just showed up in Nov of 2020, unless you care to share your previous handles, and you might have had a ton of chitakes you are running from so don't tell me your opinion history if you can't back it up with evidence. No receipts then no respect.

Good day sir!


EDIT: Wait.... s h i i t a k e mushrooms is a censored word? Then how am I going to share my recipes on here?

No respect for a person on my end who wants a bunch of Brunsons either.....


Knicks lack elite talent. We are fine in the middle of the road talent department already. We got a surplus of that.

So what's wrong with a PG who gets 12.8/3.4/3.3 on 53%/42%/85% in 24mins and is a decent defender even for his size when he's hardly ever the primary ball handler with Luka around? The Knicks have plenty of those? The situation improved with drafting IQ and trading for Rose but your assessment of players seems suspect so keep your respect for yourself, you need it.

What's your banned handle? Or are you running away from your previous garbage takes? Ballboys like you are a dime a dozen and you'll be on your next handle as soon as your opinions get exposed like last time.

There is nothing to be exposed. You seem obsessed with everything but the topic.

So what's wrong with a PG who gets 12.8/3.4/3.3 on 53%/42%/85%

What’s wrong with that?

Knicks are last in the NBA in scoring. We are scared of losing out 12 points per game and a bench player for stud wings? I done seen it all.

Also posters like you are a nickel a dozen. So I don’t feel to bad about being a dime a dozen.

[HerSports85]

My boy ...

[Fat]

My boy ...

Butler is a baller for sure

[Fat]

Watch on YouTube

Malcolm brodgon with more upside.

[HEZI]

Watch on YouTube

Malcolm brodgon with more upside.

Whoa you think that highly of him?

[Fat]

Watch on YouTube

Malcolm brodgon with more upside.

Whoa you think that highly of him?

Yeah he’s only 18 but fairly efficient. I see some brodgon in him. High level defender, excellent at attacking and getting to the line, promising shooter.

He’s not high usage but considering he’s playing next to some good guards at tennesse some of that playmaking and scoring might be stored away. I like his approach when he does have the ball so I’m not really worried about the low usg. Would like to see him attempt more 3s if anything

[TerrenceClarke]

Stud. This is the type of talent we need on this roster not a bunch of middle road talent.

Watch on YouTube

[Fat]

Stud. This is the type of talent we need on this roster not a bunch of middle road talent.

Watch on YouTube

Definitely would fit with Randle/barret long term.

Bouknight or moody? If you had to pick between the two

[TerrenceClarke]

Stud. This is the type of talent we need on this roster not a bunch of middle road talent.

Watch on YouTube

Definitely would fit with Randle/barret long term.

Bouknight or moody? If you had to pick between the two

Its tough. Really is cause I love both. Im going to have to say Moody with a gun pointed to my head. He has more Size, much more length, projects to be a better defender. Better outside shooter, has a improving handle. Plus he has a classic SG game which im really fond of. We really need his outside shooting.

[cgf]

I didn't 'make him out to be' anything.... I just pointed at a past example in comparison to current circumstance and a little bit of data from it. It's others who are making him out to be something and I'm just commenting on it....not even doubting it, just questioning it.

And it was a bad comparison that detracted from the valid point which you were in the middle of making

There was alot of moving parts I was trying to navigate to come up with a comparison that had some coherence on the principle of it so every detail wasn't going to be a perfect fit and if you are focusing too much on that you missed the point completely.

...my final edit of that post starts with the line "Not to take away from your overall point", it's you digging in on that lazy comparison that has kept this specific conversation going...

Comparing a kid who has been under the microscope for years now, with an advanced sense for the game, but who is physically under-developed; to a freak athlete that came out of nowhere late in the draft process because he needed to learn how to basketball; just isn't very convincing to folks who don't already agree with you completely.

[Spree2Houston]

Stud. This is the type of talent we need on this roster not a bunch of middle road talent.

Watch on YouTube

Allan Houston 2.0

[stuporman]

And it was a bad comparison that detracted from the valid point which you were in the middle of making

There was alot of moving parts I was trying to navigate to come up with a comparison that had some coherence on the principle of it so every detail wasn't going to be a perfect fit and if you are focusing too much on that you missed the point completely.

...my final edit of that post starts with the line "Not to take away from your overall point", it's you digging in on that lazy comparison that has kept this specific conversation going...

Comparing a kid who has been under the microscope for years now, with an advanced sense for the game, but who is physically under-developed; to a freak athlete that came out of nowhere late in the draft process because he needed to learn how to basketball; just isn't very convincing to folks who don't already agree with you completely.

No...the comparison wasn't trying to fit the games of Zhaire and Ziaire together... you keep focusing on that and call it lazy. I'm comparing the hype of two younger players taken earlier and the lesser hype of two older players taken later and how this happens often, not the comparisons of those player's games.

I could have found other examples with players in different drafts or not as dramatic of selection spots like young Knox and the older Bridges if I wanted players with similar games but this wasn't the point. You are acting as if I'm comparing the games of Zhaire and Ziaire as the point... but it's not.

Plus Zhaire shot it very well, he wasn't just a freak athlete with little basketball skill that popped up during the physicals of the draft process, he had supporters all season long. You are both ignoring the point I'm was making and also misrepresenting the nature of the point you are erroneously focusing on.

Although, move on already from trying to force your point onto me, I don't want to have to explain it again so probably won't.

[2010]

Stud. This is the type of talent we need on this roster not a bunch of middle road talent.

Watch on YouTube

Allan Houston 2.0

That's the same comp I gave. Melo keep telling me nah, he is Danny Green

[2010]

Moody vs. Bouknight:

It depends on what you value. Moody is the better shooter. Bouknight the better scorer. The composition of the team will decide which player should be taken.

If you want someone effective off the ball with deadeye shooting, a big wingspan, defensive potential and positional versatility between the 2/3 and even some small-ball 4 down the line, then you go Moody.

If you want a playmaking guard that you can give the ball to and gt-hell outta the way, then it's Bouknight. He has more playmaking ability and can be an effective high usage scoring guard. Less positional versatility tho, as he's a 2 who I can't see playing effective mins at the 3. At best he can maybe function as a combo guard spelling some spot mins at the 1.

Moody also seems more durable than Bouknight.

[3toheadmelo]

Stud. This is the type of talent we need on this roster not a bunch of middle road talent.

Watch on YouTube

Allan Houston 2.0

That's the same comp I gave. Melo keep telling me nah, he is Danny Green

I said what I said. Most of these jumpers are just catch and shoot. Houston had a killer mid range and could score with ease. This guy is more like Danny Green. Can’t really create on his own.