Knicks trade for Josh Hart

[F N 11]

Do we know when his first game is

Miss me with the get acclimated crap Thibs.

[robillionaire]

Yea, Thibs has been horrible in the playoffs. Too slow to adjust too. Series will be over by the time he finishes watching film of game 1 and adjusts

Thibs did adjust in the playoffs and his adjustment was terrible. We were tied 1-1 coming off a game that we lost on a buzzer beater and a win, and he benched the starting PG and Center and we lost in 3 straight blowouts. And that was the adjustment everyone wanted. We would likely have been better off had he not capitulated to demands to adjust something and kept going with what they did all season.

Payton should have been benched months earlier. By then, it was too late. Keeping him in the starting lineup would have just been worse. We had 0 chance playing 3 on 5 like that

well again we were 1-1 with him starting and it easily could have been 2-0 because we lost on a buzzer beater. Rose was too old to start the game and try to guard trae young and play increased minutes with energy on both sides of the ball, he quickly got gassed in each game. The defense fell apart. I don't know what would have happened if they just stuck with what was working all season but I do know his adjustment got us blown out 3 straight games so I don't know how it's defensible

[Polk377]

Do we know when his first game is

Miss me with the get acclimated crap Thibs.

Who is dropping the ball by not having a Game Thread up yet?

[Deeeez Knicks]

Thibs did adjust in the playoffs and his adjustment was terrible. We were tied 1-1 coming off a game that we lost on a buzzer beater and a win, and he benched the starting PG and Center and we lost in 3 straight blowouts. And that was the adjustment everyone wanted. We would likely have been better off had he not capitulated to demands to adjust something and kept going with what they did all season.

Payton should have been benched months earlier. By then, it was too late. Keeping him in the starting lineup would have just been worse. We had 0 chance playing 3 on 5 like that

well again we were 1-1 with him starting and it easily could have been 2-0 because we lost on a buzzer beater. Rose was too old to start the game and try to guard trae young and play increased minutes with energy on both sides of the ball, he quickly got gassed in each game. The defense fell apart. I don't know what would have happened if they just stuck with what was working all season but I do know his adjustment got us blown out 3 straight games so I don't know how it's defensible

In terms of adjustments either way it still points to Thibs being bad at making them

In the playoffs the game we won Payton was -7 in only 5 min so that doesn’t really help his case. He was -2 in only 8 min (0-3) in game 1. Maybe we win that one if he isn’t starting. He was unplayable in the playoffs. If they stuck with him we probably get swept.

Overall, we could all see how bad Payton was the entire season. We had Rose, Burks and IQ off the bench who were all better. We wasted too much time starting Elf. Should have gave IQ more minutes and experimented to see who worked better as a starter. By the playoffs, it was too late. Thibs tried to make adjustments but they didn’t work. And to be fair to Thibs Randle didn’t show up either and RJ played bad so we didn’t have much chance anyway

[KnixinSix]

Josh Hart out tonight? Trade hold up possibly????

[blueNorange]

Josh Hart out tonight? Trade hold up possibly????

"ESPN Insider Chum Bucket reports Josh Hart has to get both legs amputated"

[DowNY]

Josh Hart out tonight? Trade hold up possibly????

If it’s a trade hold up, the deal wouldn’t go through. We’re beyond the deadline. So I doubt it.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Hart has to learn Thibs system... give the ball to Randle or Brunson and get out of the way

[DLTGWH]

Then Atl used 2 picks to get Murray while the Knicks used 2 to get Hart...

Atlanta gave 4 picks including 3 unprotected for Murray. Knicks gave one protected and another heavily protected (for cam) for Hart.

But other than the fact they are very different I agree they are totally the same.

Why can’t people just enjoy best stretch of Knicks ball in last 20 years? Plus the fact they are doing with a young core with some homegrown talent.

Great point re why can‘t we enjoy this team. I think it is a bit of a grudge for the post Ewing years. I‘m a different personality re the Giants and Yanks.I‘m slowly becoming less critical of the Knicks even to the point of opening to Julius and not (completely) hating Thibs for making Obi a corner shooter or passing on players we needed in the draft.

It‘s a process.

This- everyone stuck in “The Process” mindset. Garbage to gold

It rarely happens that way. It’s ok to go from garbage to mid for a bit. Mid is an easier launchpad to great than garbage.

[DLTGWH]

Atlanta gave 4 picks including 3 unprotected for Murray. Knicks gave one protected and another heavily protected (for cam) for Hart.

But other than the fact they are very different I agree they are totally the same.

Why can’t people just enjoy best stretch of Knicks ball in last 20 years? Plus the fact they are doing with a young core with some homegrown talent.

Great point re why can‘t we enjoy this team. I think it is a bit of a grudge for the post Ewing years. I‘m a different personality re the Giants and Yanks.I‘m slowly becoming less critical of the Knicks even to the point of opening to Julius and not (completely) hating Thibs for making Obi a corner shooter or passing on players we needed in the draft.

It‘s a process.

Go read through that Iggy/Trier thread and look at all the garbage players we had to go through to get here. The nerve of people still complaining who can't enjoy a good team competing again for a playoff spot in a league with great parity.

For real. Not that long ago we were praying mudiay and Langston Galloway were the next HIM for the Knicks.

I vividly remember recently watching games with Lance Thomas, uncle Lou almondson, and the rest of the rat pack.

Now people wanna complain cuz we bring in Josh Hart to a 6th team seed? F&ck outa here

[Synciere]

I think it’s pretty funny how Knicks fans used to be blamed for being delusional for being too optimistic.

It looks like we’ve gone a complete 180:
- To start the season people wanted to trade Randle for peanuts for having a poor season last year rather than thinking he can get back to even being average. He ended up becoming an all-star

- Many thought Jalen Brunson was overpaid/overhyped and not a difference make, yet he has arguably the largest impact on the game and has become one of the most loved players

- This was supposed to be a tank season with a 35 win record and we are at 30 wins, 4 games above 500 with 26 games left in the season.

- This team was said to only be able to beat crappy teams, yet they’ve competed and beat some of the best and have one of the better road records in the NBA

I get keeping hopes low so we don’t get disappointed, but the sky is blue and the grass is green. Sometimes we have to call things how they are, and we have a much better team than anyone could have hoped…

Hella Snapple facts in this post.

[Synciere]

At this point, rj's a starter in name only, hes barely in the closing lineup right now. If anything Quickleys who hart is really competing with not rj

If there isn’t another wing on the team who can drop 20 and 5 on the team RJ is pretty secure IMO…

[DLTGWH]

I think it’s pretty funny how Knicks fans used to be blamed for being delusional for being too optimistic.

It looks like we’ve gone a complete 180:
- To start the season people wanted to trade Randle for peanuts for having a poor season last year rather than thinking he can get back to even being average. He ended up becoming an all-star

- Many thought Jalen Brunson was overpaid/overhyped and not a difference make, yet he has arguably the largest impact on the game and has become one of the most loved players

- This was supposed to be a tank season with a 35 win record and we are at 30 wins, 4 games above 500 with 26 games left in the season.

- This team was said to only be able to beat crappy teams, yet they’ve competed and beat some of the best and have one of the better road records in the NBA

I get keeping hopes low so we don’t get disappointed, but the sky is blue and the grass is green. Sometimes we have to call things how they are, and we have a much better team than anyone could have hoped…

You called it…Battered wife syndrome a real thing

[GONYK]

Knicks are getting a ton of love from The Athletic for the Hart trade:

Vecenie: Josh Hart trade checks the right boxes for the Knicks, but what are the Blazers doing?


The New York Knicks swung one of the more traditional midseason deals this trade deadline, acquiring a (potentially) expiring veteran player who will help them now for a young player and a draft pick. It’s a tale as old as the deadline itself. And it’s also one of my favorite moves any team made this week.

The Knicks acquired Josh Hart from the Portland Trail Blazers for Cam Reddish, Ryan Arcidiacono, Svi Mykhailiuk (later moved to Charlotte) and a 2023 first round pick. The draft pick is the Knicks’ selection this year (as opposed to Dallas’), and it’s top-14 protected. If it doesn’t convey this season, it becomes four second-round picks.

I love this deal for the Knicks … and have some fairly substantial questions about the direction Portland is taking. Let’s dive in:

Why Josh Hart is a perfect match for the Knicks
The Knicks traded a player who couldn’t seem to work his way into coach Tom Thibodeau’s good graces for a player who embodies everything Thibodeau loves from his players. Don’t believe me? Ask the man himself. Following a game earlier this season, he was effusive in his praise of Hart, stopping to really accentuate what makes him such an effective player.

“That’s what he does. He’s probably the best rebounding guard in the league,” Thibodeau said after Hart grabbed 19 rebounds against New York. “When the ball goes up, if you stand and stare, it’s going to be a problem. If you turn and check, there’s gotta be a physicality to it. He’s got a great nose for the ball. He anticipates well. He’s strong. We knew he would be a challenge.”

Indeed, Hart is the kind of grit-and-grime player who will immediately endear himself to the defensive-minded Knicks coach. He plays hard all the time. He pushes the pace. He crashes around the court and makes things happen. His floor game is elite. But more importantly, he is one of the best rebounders for his size in the league. Per DunksAndThrees.com, among players who have seen a majority of their minutes at small forward this season, Hart ranks only behind Jarred Vanderbilt and Jayson Tatum in terms of defensive rebounding rate and ranks sixth behind Vanderbilt, Scottie Barnes, Torrey Craig, Justise Winslow and Jimmy Butler in offensive rebounding rate.

All of the other guys listed tend to play some fairly sizable minutes at the four. Hart is a pure perimeter player, crashing in relentlessly at 6-foot-5 and getting his hands on the ball. As Thibodeau noted, his anticipation and understanding of how the ball comes off the rim is superb. Moreover, he’s an expert at not allowing players to get a body on him.

The Knicks have a real need for that. Despite ranking second in offensive rebounding rate due to the machine that is Mitchell Robinson, the team ranks 21st in defensive rebounding rate. The Knicks are fine when Julius Randle and Robinson are out there but could use another active, energetic rebounder off the bench for when they aren’t. Hart should be able to provide that spark off the bench.

He should also help by taking the load off some of the Knicks’ perimeter players who are consistently managing tough defensive assignments. Quentin Grimes has been asked to carry the load against elite perimeter players all year. Immanuel Quickley has picked up the slack against high-level initiators at the point of attack. But with Jalen Brunson’s limitations and RJ Barrett’s startling regression on that end, having another player to take tough matchups will be immensely helpful.

Hart will give them more depth and lineup versatility as well as another body to eat up minutes on good players. Playing next to Damian Lillard and Anfernee Simons, Hart took on a lion’s share of the tough jobs on top scoring threats like Devin Booker, Anthony Edwards Luka Dončić and Jamal Murray. I’ve always thought he’s done a pretty OK job on Dončić in relative terms. Hart is best dealing with players he can body up as opposed to quicker guys. He works to scratch and claw his way back into plays. Here’s a good example of that ability to try to body up against Dončić, as well as his effort to try to stay attached and contest at all times. It doesn’t always look pretty, and he doesn’t have the most fluid footwork. He might get beat off the jump. But he knows his angles well and is smart at forcing guys baseline or into the help.

Hart can handle one-on-one matchups, he rotates well, he crashes the glass, and he forces turnovers at a reasonable level. He brings sandpaper and gravel to every lineup he’s a part of. But don’t sleep on his offense. He’s a relentless driver who pressures the defense when he gets an advantage. Being a terrific rebounder, he often looks to aggressively push the issue and create early offense. For a Knicks offense that is quite good but can be a bit slow, this will be beneficial. The team is 28th in terms of pace of play and in the bottom third in the NBA in terms of points out of transition opportunities, per Synergy. Hart will likely change that, as a higher percentage of his offense comes out in transition than any other other rotation player in the league.

That’s a reason he’s made 67 percent of his shots at the rim over the last two seasons, a well-above-average mark for a wing. Beyond that, he’s aggressive as a passer and playmaker, averaging almost four assists per game versus only 1.5 turnovers. His decision-making will waver at times if he gets stuck in the midrange, which is why his turnover rate is a bit high for someone with this level of usage. But in general, the Knicks need another guy off the bench who can share the ball. New York is last in terms of percentage of field goals that end up assisted. The ball can get a bit stagnant from time to time, especially with guys like Barrett and Randle. Hart is entirely unselfish and will look to quickly reverse the ball out on the perimeter to an open man, as well as eat up space as a driver when it’s presented to him. Plus, he had some fun moments with Shaedon Sharpe, hooking him up with lobs seemingly once a week.

The only issue Hart needs to get over is his reluctance to shoot 3s. He passes them up all the time and cut his 3-point volume in half this season, taking only two per game after averaging over four attempts over the course of his career. He’s never been the most consistent shooter, but he was a 34 percent guy over the last four years. That’s just good enough to make it work, but he needs to be willing to shoot. It’s possible he made an overcorrection into doing all the dirty work stuff and didn’t want to take too many possessions away from guys like Lillard, Simons and Jerami Grant. But Hart will need to start at least looking at the rim on possessions like the one below, when he passed up two potentially wide open 3-point opportunities to drive and try a contested floater.

I love Hart as the seventh man for the Knicks along with the dynamic Quickley, and Hart should give the Knicks real lineup flexibility. Could we see some fun small-ball units with Quickley, Brunson, Quentin Grimes, Hart and Randle? What about wing-heavy units like Brunson-Grimes-Hart-Barrett-Randle? Or very defensively conscious perimeter trios with Quickley, Grimes and Hart? Before this move, they didn’t have enough guys who could reasonably defend and rebound up the lineup to get creative. Hart gives them that luxury, and it’ll be very important in order to mix and match lineup-wise. Hart’s effectiveness in the playoffs will depend on him proving that he’s willing to take the open shots given to him.

Beyond that, the fundamentals of this deal make a ton of sense for the Knicks. Hart has a strange contract and makes about $13 million this year and next year. But next year is essentially a mutual option. He has a player option that he has to make a decision on first; if he exercises it, the deal becomes non-guaranteed for the Knicks. It gives the team some real flexibility in determining what they want to do with him, but it’s fairly easy to see him deciding to stay in New York. He’s a CAA client, which gives him ties to this front office. And he’s friends with Brunson, with whom he played at Villanova. There are a lot of reasons to buy into this not necessarily being a one-year arrangement.

When considering all of that, the Knicks didn’t give up a lot. Reddish was out of the rotation and clearly was not going to be retained. The team gave up a first-round pick to Atlanta when it acquired him last season, but that pick has quickly turned as a value proposition for the Hawks. The first-round protection has a very good chance of extinguishing without actually transferring. It’s a Hornets pick that is top-16 protected this season, then top-14 protected in 2024 and 2025 before it turns into two seconds. The Hornets are one of the four worst teams in the NBA and nowhere near the playoffs. Given how deep the East is, I’d be surprised if they became a playoff team that quickly.

The first-round pick the Knicks gave up in this deal for Hart is lottery protected but more likely than not will be around the No. 20 mark in a draft class that evaluators have real questions about starting right around that range. Plus, the Knicks also have a pick already in that range, the Mavericks’ first-rounder. New York did really well to potentially mitigate any potential trade flexibility in the future by making sure the first-round pick obligation will be extinguished in this upcoming draft if disaster struck and the team missed the playoffs. You never know what’s going to happen, and this is a team continually in the mix for star trades.

[F N 11]

Hart has to learn Thibs system... give the ball to Randle or Brunson and get out of the way

Obi 2
Sims 2
Hart 6
McBride 0
Grimes 6 (0-4 from 3)

This is why we traded for J Hart. He’ll be starting tomorrow.

[Juggynaut]

At least if we miss the playoffs we'll be trading 4 2nds for Hart instead of a 1st. That would be a steal.

[knicksNOTslick]

At least if we miss the playoffs we'll be trading 4 2nds for Hart instead of a 1st. That would be a steal.

It's very possible with the play-in tournament. Getting 6th is key if we want to make the playoffs

[knicksNOTslick]

Grimes has bothered Mitchell every time we've played them and it's much easier to gameplan against 2 shot creators who are under 6'5" than it is against say Milwaukee with Giannis and Middleton or the Celtics with Tatum and Brown.

Who's guarding Garland in this scenario?

Brunson? RJ?

The only viable lineup would be to bench RJ for Hart, but then that gives them a favorable matchup on defense because they can put Garland/Mitchell on Grimes/Hart and not worry about it cause those guys aren't creating with the ball in their hands. Then it's either Okoro or LeVert on Brunson, and vice-versa. Okoro for defense when they need to stop Brunson, LeVert for offense when they need to take advantage of him. At best, it's a wash

And then you're hoping that Randle doesn't melt down again, which you need him to do against a great defensive frontcourt in Mobley/Allen

The only way it works in our favor is if we accept that Brunson is gonna have to go against Garland on both ends, and hope he's able to outduel him, and even then, he's likely not getting much help from the rest of the roster while Garland can lose more than he wins and still have the better support

Plus, Thibs is Thibs. He isn't gonna be able to adjust when things start going awry.

I get your point but teams are constantly switching, so to a point, the overall stronger lineups win.
I want to play Cleveland. As long as we give them a good run, I‘m ok.
I think we can best them though; we‘d have to just be at our peak then.
Hart might make a big difference.

Who's guarding Garland? But who's Garland gonna guard? Smart teams have been exploiting Garland on defense. They can keep him out there in the regular season but when playoff comes, I'm making Garland pay on defense and they'll be forced to limit his minutes for being such a liability. That is if Thibs exploits the mismatches by switching a big body to back him down in the post.

[DowNY]

Watch on YouTube

[dakomish23]

Here’s Lowe & Pelton on the trade at the 1:11 mark. They love Hart but were wondering where his minutes will come from & how he fits as not a guy who loves to shoot 3s but we need it, they love his defense and rebounding for us, they gush over IQ, etc.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-lowe-post/id986595124?i=1000598969520