The MeloPause Trade Thread

[Thugger HBC]

MP I hope you typed that wrong. Adding Bledsoe does not add 20 wins.

no i typed it like bledsoe makes this team 20-25 wins better....

meaning like come on no way does he add that value.

3todamelo seems to think if we get bledsoe with our current roster we could end up there. I think its beyond ridiculos. We barely won 30 games last year...bledsoe might barely make us a playoff team. A 50 win ECF contender...yeh right.

Gotcha. I like Bledsoe somewhat, but I want a rebuild more. Melo should be able to bring us back something of value towards that end. Glad to see we're waiting for it.

[god shammgod]

woj got more overall but shams got more of the big names

[NotPhilJackson]

Bledsoe
Frank
Lee
Melo
KP

You got Timmy as 6th man and Willy as 7th

That's a nice ass team

it's really not.

I mean theoretically it really isn't that bad of a squad, especially in the east. Baker, Timmy, LFT, KOQ & Willy as a B team is nice. And it gives you some flexibility with your roster. Not that I am on board with keeping Melo and obtaining Bledsoe (not that I even know how we'd get him while keeping all these players) - I think that's a solid top 4 team in the east.

[Thugger HBC]

your own words

You need a breakdown?

Please break it down.

Some are playing both sides of the fence.

This first part is the statement.

They cool with a top pick and cool with keeping Melo,

This is the explanation. Making a a 2018 draft thread before the season starts is all cool, you're interested in that. That's fine.

You also have no issues with Melo staying, as a matter of fact you stated go "all in" if so, means ditch the draft, youth etc. That's what all-in means, basically go for broke to get it. That's fine too if that's what you want.

but neither can happen together.

this part is quite simple. You can't have both. It's one or the other thus you're playing both sides of the fence.

[Priggy Smalls]

woj got more overall but shams got more of the big names

woj is just a volume scorer now.

[battabing10]

poor ole melo. that ntc clause not looking too good right now. you shoulda knew that you wasn't getting off scot free with no gd buyout son. knicks ain't gonna lose a trade for your sake so now you gonna man up and do the right thing or go towelbury.2? you trapped in new york either way. character gonna be exposed either way too.

[Battery]

Houston needs to start coughing up multiple unprotected first round picks. Do that, I'll take back whatever crap you want to throw this way. In the West, even good teams are always an injury or two away from falling into the lottery.

[Kampuchea]

Woj is Melo
Shams is Robert Horry

[King of Canada]

Woj is Melo
Shams is Robert Horry

And Ramona is Mike James when he was on the Raptors

[Sark]

You've obviously never studied economics by this response. Value is determined by what someone else is willing to pay, not by what the owner thinks its value is. I can think my ball of lint is worth $100 million, but if someone else is only willing to pay 10 cents for it, then it's value is 10 cents. Even if you undervalue something, that still doesn't lower the market value for something. Suppose you owned a $1m painting, but hated it. You were willing to sell it for $100k; a buyer would still be willing to pay $1m because that is the market value.

Phil Jackson's comments did nothing to Melo's value. His 14 year career is what sets his value. That and the NTC.

Every time I see someone say Phil lowered Melo's value

Wow are you two dense. I don't understand why this is a difficult concept to grasp. If you come to look at a car I listed, you have an expectation of value based on the year, make, general condition, etc. At that point in time, based on those factors, you have an idea of the value of that car in your head. Now if when you show up I start talking about how I need to get rid of this car before the weekend because I'm going out of state and can't take it with me, are you still going to offer me what you would have before I started talking about how I needed to get rid of it? Of course not. You'd be stupid to. This is in essence what Phil did.

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But that's not at all what happened. If Phil did that, then Melo would have been traded for whatever junk deal was available from Cleveland or LA before the deadline. Phil saying that Melo holds the ball too much, or doesn't change his ways, is not the same as "I need to get rid of this right now", which is what you are trying to imply, similar to a fire sale or going out of business sale.

Carmelo's lowered trade demand was from the NTC, not from any comments from Phil. Sacramento could have the highest demand for Melo, but they never would have been able to make a deal unless Melo agreed to waive the NTC. They could have said "we'll trade every first round pick for the next decade for Melo", and it wouldn't matter at all.

[thisiskoz]

He didn't say "we don't want him". He said, we think it would be better for him to go somewhere else if he wants to win a championship. He could just as easily (which he did) say, "no, I'd rather just stay".

What do you think would happen during a negotiation if Phil HAD NOT come out and said that? Do you think the others teams would ask why the f*ck we're willing to trade him? What would you have said at that point? "Oh, well, we still think he's a superstar, top 10 player, buuutttt, if you wanna make an offer, we'll listen". You really think other teams are dumb? They wouldn't have caught on that we want to trade him and go with a youth movement? You think the only reason they realized that was because Phil made a comment in a press conference?

The quote was he'd be better off somewhere else.

A sensible exec would put out feelers saying hey were thinking about a rebuild, going younger, whatever. In fairness to melo we wanted to gauge his value around the league and if we feel something makes sense, we may be inclined to trade him. If not he'll continue to work with our young guys moving forward. Do you have any interest?

See the difference?

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Nope. I'm not buying it. Who knows how these guys talk to each other behind the scenes. They have relationships that go back decades. Especially Phil. How do you know he didn't put out these "feelers" before that press conference? He probably did, and he was using the press conference as a way to pressure Melo to give up his NTC.

Regardless of what you buy, the truth is the Knicks did the right thing now in walking away from the table. It's not the end of the world if we keep him. And now teams know we won't trade him just the best offer, but rather a good offer.

And why would publicly calling out melo make him waive his ntc? I'm not buying that one.

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[drekwins]

Bledsoe
Frank
Lee
Melo
KP

You got Timmy as 6th man and Willy as 7th

That's a nice ass team

it's really not.

People don't get it, man. I honestly think they just do this:

Bledsoe = 12-15th at his position
Frank = Hyped Rookie
Lee = 15-20th at his positon
Melo = 7th at his position
KP = 5th at his position
Timmy = Great young 6th man
Willy = top 20 center/one of the best 7th men

"Man... we're going to be a problem!"

They don't get that:
1) This is a Superstar league
2) Little things like rebounding, defense, rotations and unselfishness matter
3) Basketball isn't played on paper

[Capn'O]

Houston needs to start coughing up multiple unprotected first round picks. Do that, I'll take back whatever crap you want to throw this way. In the West, even good teams are always an injury or two away from falling into the lottery.

Or guys getting old and/or leaving. The 20s could be fat times if you have their picks.

[3toheadmelo]

You need a breakdown?

Please break it down.

Some are playing both sides of the fence.

This first part is the statement.

They cool with a top pick and cool with keeping Melo,

This is the explanation. Making a a 2018 draft thread before the season starts is all cool, you're interested in that. That's fine.

You also have no issues with Melo staying, as a matter of fact you stated go "all in" if so, means ditch the draft, youth etc. That's what all-in means, basically go for broke to get it. That's fine too if that's what you want.

but neither can happen together.

this part is quite simple. You can't have both. It's one or the other thus you're playing both sides of the fence.

I said i PREFER to rebuild but if we keep melo, lets make a deep playoff squad.

What's wrong with that?

When I say go "all in" that doesn't mean trade all our picks, and ditch the youth. Ditching the youth would mean trading Frank, Timmy, KP....

It's pretty obvious you can't get both sides. How can you be a playoff team and rebuild hard in the draft?
I never said I wanted both of that, because that's impossible.

There's nothing wrong with being cool with either option. I can't speak for you

[Battery]

Houston needs to start coughing up multiple unprotected first round picks. Do that, I'll take back whatever crap you want to throw this way. In the West, even good teams are always an injury or two away from falling into the lottery.

Or guys getting old and/or leaving. The 20s could be fat times if you have their picks.

Exactly. We need a long-term strategy, enough of this short sighted nonsense about not taking bad contracts or whatever. Who cares about that because we aren't contending for a title in the next 3 years. Takes time to develop the youngsters, but at least we will have flexibility and most importantly power which we have never had under Dolan. You give us multiple first round picks, it gives us so much more flexibility than cap space right now.

[thisiskoz]

Every time I see someone say Phil lowered Melo's value

Wow are you two dense. I don't understand why this is a difficult concept to grasp. If you come to look at a car I listed, you have an expectation of value based on the year, make, general condition, etc. At that point in time, based on those factors, you have an idea of the value of that car in your head. Now if when you show up I start talking about how I need to get rid of this car before the weekend because I'm going out of state and can't take it with me, are you still going to offer me what you would have before I started talking about how I needed to get rid of it? Of course not. You'd be stupid to. This is in essence what Phil did.

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But that's not at all what happened. If Phil did that, then Melo would have been traded for whatever junk deal was available from Cleveland or LA before the deadline. Phil saying that Melo holds the ball too much, or doesn't change his ways, is not the same as "I need to get rid of this right now", which is what you are trying to imply, similar to a fire sale or going out of business sale.

Carmelo's lowered trade demand was from the NTC, not from any comments from Phil. Sacramento could have the highest demand for Melo, but they never would have been able to make a deal unless Melo agreed to waive the NTC. They could have said "we'll trade every first round pick for the next decade for Melo", and it wouldn't matter at all.

Phil said he'd be better off elsewhere. If you want to choose to dance around the obvious and say that's not what he really meant, do you. In reality it meant we're going to move melo. Once you've committed to that you've lost leverage.

And as long as there are teams that would trade for melo and that melo would go to, the Ntc is largely irrelevant regarding his value. Because as has already been said it's not a must trade clause. You either meet asking price or we walk away. Yes you lose the ability to play one party against another, but the ntc doesn't impact value in a single negotiation in a vacuum as long as the team wants melo and melo will waive his ntc to go to the team.

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[NotPhilJackson]

Question:

Do yall take Anderson's contract on for 2 unprotected 1sts, Z.Qi and Hartenstein?

The next 2 years of free agency after this one are both pretty trash. So why not let those 2 youngins grow in the D-League while we wait til Noah and Andersons contracts expire.

Honestly I'm not interested in any free agency until 2021 anyway.


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[DE FENSE]

The restraint the Knicks have shown today could bring a tear to my eye. If this is the influence that Perry is gonna have then sign me the fck up.

[thebuzzardman]

woj got more overall but shams got more of the big names

woj is just a volume scorer now.

He'll break the Melo news for sure then

[Sark]

Wow are you two dense. I don't understand why this is a difficult concept to grasp. If you come to look at a car I listed, you have an expectation of value based on the year, make, general condition, etc. At that point in time, based on those factors, you have an idea of the value of that car in your head. Now if when you show up I start talking about how I need to get rid of this car before the weekend because I'm going out of state and can't take it with me, are you still going to offer me what you would have before I started talking about how I needed to get rid of it? Of course not. You'd be stupid to. This is in essence what Phil did.

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But that's not at all what happened. If Phil did that, then Melo would have been traded for whatever junk deal was available from Cleveland or LA before the deadline. Phil saying that Melo holds the ball too much, or doesn't change his ways, is not the same as "I need to get rid of this right now", which is what you are trying to imply, similar to a fire sale or going out of business sale.

Carmelo's lowered trade demand was from the NTC, not from any comments from Phil. Sacramento could have the highest demand for Melo, but they never would have been able to make a deal unless Melo agreed to waive the NTC. They could have said "we'll trade every first round pick for the next decade for Melo", and it wouldn't matter at all.

Phil said he'd be better off elsewhere. If you want to choose to dance around the obvious and say that's not what he really meant, do you. In reality it meant we're going to move melo. Once you've committed to that you've lost leverage.

And as long as there are teams that would trade for melo and that melo would go to, the Ntc is largely irrelevant regarding his value. Because as has already been said it's not a must trade clause. You either meet asking price or we walk away. Yes you lose the ability to play one party against another, but the ntc doesn't impact value in a single negotiation in a vacuum as long as the team wants melo and melo will waive his ntc to go to the team.

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Not dancing around anything. Phil never said he needed to trade him right now. Saying he'd have a better chance to win elsewhere was the truth. None of it was anything that all 30 teams didn't already know.

By your logic Phil can say Melo is better than MJ, and will only trade him for 10 picks. Do you think Phil's comments are powerful enough to make someone pay that?