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2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3

Moderators: Deeeez Knicks, dakomish23, mpharris36, j4remi, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, HerSports85

Who do you guys want the most assuming all of these players are within our range

James Bouknight
29
24%
Ayo Dosunmo
7
6%
Tre Mann
15
12%
Davion Mitchell
15
12%
Josh Giddey
22
18%
Jared Butler
10
8%
Ziaire Williams
7
6%
BJ Boston
2
2%
Moses Moody
5
4%
Sharife Cooper
10
8%
 
Total votes: 122

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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#861 » by HEZI » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:04 pm

Imagine thinking Josh Giddey is going to be taking the ball out of Randle's hands and telling him to run. Thibs is going to change his entire offense to cater to a rookie Josh Giddey so they can run more. Imagine believing this :rofl:

Giddey would be forced to give the ball to Randle at halfcourt and then go stand in his corner, Giddey has no gravitational pull that forces others to fit his style. He's a role player and he's going to play his role in the NBA to fit whatever the alpha's on that team demand of him. Anybody with any knowledge of the game knows this
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#862 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:07 pm

HEZI wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Yeah I don't see him as worth trading up for. He could be a good bench piece, especially with a player like Quickly who lacks the things Giddey brings to the table so having a stabilizing ball handler and playmaker alongside Quickly could work. But I'm not seeing Giddey being a player that offers much to the starting lineup without major changes being made to it.



Near the end of the NBL season he was taking more off the dribble threes but nothing to give me a ton of confidence that he'd become a three level scorer. Maybe you could get him to work with our starters if he was a better athlete? Like a discount version of Ben Simmons that picked up the pace for everyone but he doesn't really have that extra. Maybe it's something he can improve on cuz he's a pretty lanky teen but I wouldn't count on it.


He feels like a terrible fit for our style, as terrible as our style is, it is who we are so doubt that changes unless like I said we make major changes to the starting lineup. But we play a halfcourt style with a slower pace and the ball is in Randle's hands a lot where he's initiating a lot of the offense (not that he should but he does) . Giddey doesn't have much of an off the ball game, maybe he can knock some shots down here and there but nothing to the point where I would trust him to be a reliable kick out option. He seems way better suited for an open transition game, with athletes and shooters and ball handling where guys are making quick decisions with the ball. That's not our style, we're a dump it to Randle for shot clock burning 1 on 3 type of team. With our bench, I think he could be fine playing next to IQ and Obi and others, but with the starters I just see a terrible fit.


I wonder how much of our offensive style was cuz of the personal we have here. Like I definitely remember Thibs in Chicago running guys like Korver and Rip Hamilton off screens to get open jumpers. Let's hope there's more wrinkles cuz I don't want to watch our whole offense fall apart cuz of a big making a soft double on Randle.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#863 » by cgf » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:09 pm

Marty McFly wrote:from ESPN insider

Over the past 20 years, only one draft class has produced four All-Stars in the top five picks. And while the 2021 draft isn't expected to be led by four future Hall of Famers, like 2003 with LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade, there's a sense within NBA circles that the top of this year's crop could end up being as strong as any we've seen in the past two decades.

"That top five is potentially as stout as any of the other drafts [since 2000]," one high-ranking NBA executive said. "There are years where the No. 1 pick would never be the No. 1 pick ever again. Some drafts lack that No. 1 pick. This one's legit. I'm a big fan. There's legit star power [in the top 5]."

Don't have an account so I don't know what the rest of the article says. :lol:


I just want this team to draft a wing who's Uber-athletic, can handle and shoot the ball. is that too much to ask for?

(I know its the glamour player archetype I'm just being sarcastic.)

I too would like this team to draft Ziaire Williams :D
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#864 » by cgf » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:11 pm

stuporman wrote:This may be a draft where there is an all-star that comes out of the second round or undrafted ranks, there definitely is enough talent depth to obscure a hidden gem that drops down or even out of it.

Plus the crazy covid-impacted season probably hid some high-end talents that might've worked their way into the lottery during a normal season.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#865 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:11 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:




Hey Jim or Melo.. Do you have ESPN Plus? Would you mind posting the rest of this article? I'd love to read it but I don't have ESPN Plus. Thanks to whoever posts it.


Spoiler:
Over the past 20 years, only one draft class has produced four All-Stars in the top five picks. And while the 2021 draft isn't expected to be led by four future Hall of Famers, like 2003 with LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade, there's a sense within NBA circles that the top of this year's crop could end up being as strong as any we've seen in the past two decades.

"That top five is potentially as stout as any of the other drafts [since 2000]," one high-ranking NBA executive said. "There are years where the No. 1 pick would never be the No. 1 pick ever again. Some drafts lack that No. 1 pick. This one's legit. I'm a big fan. There's legit star power [in the top 5]."

It's no secret the draft is an inexact science. Nikola Jokic, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Stephen Curry, who've combined to win five of the past seven MVP awards, were all drafted outside the top five. There will surely be players projected outside the top five of this draft who turn into NBA stars. But less than two weeks away from the NBA draft lottery, which will determine the final pick order, teams are waiting anxiously in hopes of landing inside the coveted top five, and for good reason. Cade Cunningham, Jalen Green, Evan Mobley, Jalen Suggs and Jonathan Kuminga all represent game-changing prospects, each for a different reason.

What makes each one so intriguing? Is there a tier within that group? And who else could crack the top five of this draft?


Cade Cunningham: The Jumbo Shot Creator
Physical: Between 6-foot-7 and 6-8, 225 pounds, 7-foot-1 to 7-2 wingspan
Key Stat: Most efficient isolation scorer in the NCAA
Similarities To: Luka Doncic, Khris Middleton, Jayson Tatum
What's His Superpower? Versatility

As Oklahoma State head coach Mike Boynton told us during the college season, "No matter who is on your roster, Cade fits."

Cunningham's versatility is a big reason he's the favorite to go No. 1 overall regardless of who ends up winning the lottery. At somewhere between 6-7 and 6-8 with long arms and a strong frame, Cunningham shifted all over the floor for Oklahoma State, bringing the ball up the court, finishing possessions out of isolation and pick-and-roll (over 47% of his offense), spacing the floor as a shooter, operating as a screener and even creating from the post. He's the only player projected in the top five who could legitimately play four positions.

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Cunningham has found success in a variety of roles throughout his amateur career. At Montverde, he was the lead guard, table-setter and shot creator for Scottie Barnes, Moses Moody, and Day'Ron Sharpe on one of the greatest teams in high school basketball history. With the U19 USA team in Crete, he thrived as a playmaking wing alongside Green, Suggs and Tyrese Haliburton, averaging 12-5-6 in 24 minutes on his way to a gold medal. With the Texas Titans on the Nike EYBL Circuit, he shouldered the load, averaging 24-7-6 while shooting 64% from 2 and 35% from 3, ranking fourth in the league in scoring and first in total win shares for the 18 games in our database (17-1). At Oklahoma State he led a ho-hum Cowboys roster to the Big 12 title game -- knocking off Baylor in the process -- as the primary shot-creator while ranking among the team's top two in points, rebounds, assists and blocks.

Thanks to his ability to play on or off the ball (40% from 3), his floor is a Khris Middleton type, while on the high end, Cunningham has shades of Tatum and Luka Doncic, thanks to his stellar court vision. Simply put, Cunningham is capable in a wide range of roles, and thanks to his calm demeanor, late-game heroics and clutch gene, he still has quite a bit of upside to tap into.

"I feel like I affect the game in so many different ways," Cunningham said. "It's going to be hard to find somebody else that's versatile and can affect the game in this many ways. ... I know there are a lot of other big time players, but I think I'm the one."

play
2:00
Cade Cunningham's versatility makes him a can't-miss NBA prospectCade Cunningham is the favorite to be the top pick in the NBA draft after showcasing his versatility at Oklahoma State.
MORE: Answering scouts' biggest questions about Cade Cunningham

Jalen Green: The Most Star Potential
Physical: 6-foot-6, 190 pounds with about a 6-foot-9 wingspan
Key Stats: 10th in the G League in scoring at just 19 years old (18.7 points in 32.4 minutes)
Similarities To: Zach LaVine, Bradley Beal, wiry Anthony Edwards
What's His Superpower? Effortless scoring ability

Green is far and away the most dynamic of the five prospects. Watching him work out in Los Angeles recently, he dunks on the way up and gets up and down the floor with incredible ease. He has turned himself into quite the shot-maker over the past year or so (36% from 3 in the G League bubble), creating space as well as any teenager I can remember. No prospect can score with the same level of ease as Green, who also showed progress as a ball handler, passer (3.1 assists per game), and on-ball defender in the bubble. Although he has a much different body type, Green could very well have an Anthony Edwards type of impact as a rookie. He'll have nights when he scores 30-plus points, become a SportsCenter top-10 mainstay and infuse a level of excitement into his new fan base, while likely battling some inefficiency and defensive growing pains in Year 1.

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Green has no shortage of fans in NBA front offices, and there's an argument to be made that he has the most star potential in the draft. One NBA executive said Green has a chance to be a "10-time All-Star and 25-point-per-game scorer" once he settles into the NBA game. Green has a Zach Lavine type of effortless bounce with Bradley Beal-like shotmaking ability and scoring instincts, which is clearly an intriguing combination for a franchise in search of star power. Ask him who the best prospect in the draft is, and Green doesn't mince words.

"Me, I'm the best prospect in this draft, in my opinion," Green said. "I didn't go to college and I played against grown men. I just think as a 19-year-old doing that, I'm the best player in the draft for sure."

play
1:31
Top NBA prospect Jalen Green looks ready for the big leagueCheck out the highlights that make the G League's Jalen Green look NBA ready.
Evan Mobley: The Modern Big
Physical: 7 feet, 220 pounds, 7-foot-4 wingspan
Key Stats: Seventh in the NCAA in half-court scoring efficiency
Similarities To: Anthony Davis, Chris Bosh, Jaren Jackson Jr.
What's His Superpower? Perimeter Prowess

Mobley is the draft's best big man, but that doesn't mean he'll be anchored inside the paint. It's his ability to play on the perimeter on both ends of the floor at 7 feet tall -- along with his stellar feel for the game -- that separates him from the rest of this class as well as recent top big man prospects like James Wiseman and Deandre Ayton.

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"10, 15 years ago it was mostly, if you're a big you stay inside the paint," Mobley told ESPN's Jonathan Givony at a USA Basketball Minicamp in October of 2018. "But nowadays in the NBA you see a lot of players stretching the floor a lot. [Kevin Durant], he's 7 feet but he has a good 3 ball. I'm trying to be like that, get my 3 ball up a little bit. Try to be like Giannis [Antetokounmpo] as well, driving to the basket, and kind of like Anthony Davis with the back to the basket and also stretch the floor."

Mobley regularly brought the ball up the floor and initiated offense for Rancho Christian High School. His feel for the game and positional handle are rare; USC even started using him as a pick-and-roll ball handler late in the season. He's an intelligent passer (2.8 assists per 40) with the shooting mechanics to eventually space the floor from 3 despite converting just 30% as a freshman, which will allow him to play both 4 and 5.

On the defensive end, his fluidity and foot speed help him to switch onto guards and wings with ease. He's also a nuanced pick-and-roll defender, has great touch on the interior and excellent shot-blocking instincts (3.4 blocks per 40). While I've compared him to a young Davis, there's also a lot of Bosh in his game with his body type, all-around game and skill level.


It's no secret in NBA circles that Mobley could very well end up as the best player to come out of this draft once his body fills out. He could use a more physical big alongside him early on given his rebounding struggles and slight build. Even if it's not in his nature to take over games as a scorer, he's going to impact winning wherever he goes, and his combination of floor and ceiling has scouts excited about his future in the NBA.

play
1:34
Evan Mobley's versatility, athleticism make him an intriguing NBA prospectCheck out USC big man Evan Mobley's highlights that show how his physical skills and versatility make him a top prospect in the NBA draft.
Jalen Suggs: The Two-Way Guard
Physical: 6-foot-4, 205 pounds, 6-foot-6 wingspan
Key Stats: First high-major player to average at 19 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists and 2.5 steals per 40 minutes since Penny Hardaway in 1992
Similarities To: Jrue Holiday, Brandon Roy
What's His Superpower? Winning Impact

Suggs is a culture-changer who will instantly bring toughness and a winning mentality wherever he goes. While his open-court passing, aggressive rim attacks and ability to knock down shots late in games are what you see on the floor, it's what Suggs brings on a day-to-day basis that differentiates him from the rest of this group.

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Coaches and staff who have been around him say he's the most competitive player they've ever coached. Suggs was 19-0 with three gold medals during his USA Basketball career. He was the best player on one of the best teams college basketball has ever seen. In addition to his game-winning bank against UCLA, he was the only Gonzaga Bulldog who showed up against Baylor, scoring 22 points in 33 minutes. His handle, shooting and finishing finesse still need work, so it's natural to wonder what his season would have looked like if he was asked to create the majority of his team's offense like Cunningham at Oklahoma State. But Suggs is a winner in every sense of the word. He makes game-changing plays in big moments that suggests he has the potential to be far more than just an NBA starter in the right situation.

I've often compared him to Holiday because of his defensive physicality, toughness and ability to play on or off the ball. Suggs is further along than Holiday -- the 17th overall pick in 2009 -- was at the same stage, and far more electric with the ball in the open court. He and Holiday have physical similarities and are both highly appreciated for their defensive prowess and winning ways. Holiday is a former NBA All-Star, annual Defensive Player of the Year candidate, Teammate of the Year (2020) and Sportsmanship Award winner (2021) who is averaging 16-4-6 over the course of his career while defending the other team's best player -- not a bad outcome for Suggs.

play
1:40
Jalen Suggs is a human highlight reel ready for the NBAGonzaga's Jalen Suggs is ready for the NBA, and he's bringing his incredible handles with him.
Jonathan Kuminga: The Wild Card
Physical: 6-foot-8, 225 pounds, 7-foot-1 wingspan
Key Stats: 1.2 steals and 1.0 blocks per 40 minutes
Similarities To: Jaylen Brown, taller DeMar DeRozan
What's His Superpower? Two-Way Potential

Kuminga is the most physically ready of the top five, with ideal tools for a two-way wing in today's NBA. Of the aforementioned prospects, Kuminga is the only one an NBA coach could comfortably ask to slow elite wing scorers such as Kawhi Leonard, Paul George and Tatum, even if his discipline and motor on that end are still evolving.

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It wasn't long ago that NBA scouts were gushing about Kuminga as a potential No. 1 pick after he averaged 22 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal and 1 block per game over his first three G League bubble contests (all wins). He was the best player on the floor in both pre-bubble scrimmages (24-5-3), and G League Ignite staffers with NBA experience regularly touted him as a potential top pick. However, some of Kuminga's shortcomings started to show as the bubble went on. He shot just 33% from 2 and 22% from 3 over his last five games and ultimately opted to shut it down after 13 games due to injury.

Given some of the ups and downs in Orlando, Florida, teams have seemed to feel more comfortable with names like Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Suggs over Kuminga. It has also been more difficult for teams to gather accurate intel and background information on Kuminga, who grew up in Congo and bounced around between different schools once arriving in the United States.


Still, having recently watched Kuminga work out for two days in Orlando, there's no questioning his ability. He's a better shooter than his 25% G League clip suggests. He looks every bit of 6-foot-8 with a tremendous frame, excellent length and sharp footwork. He's comfortable creating from all over the floor and scoring out of the midpost, even showing glimpses of court vision in the open floor. If a team can iron out Kuminga's jumper, stabilize his defensive motor and get him to play a more free-flowing, ball-moving style, it could end up with one of the best players to come out of this 2021 draft, just like he was billed less than five months ago. And with teams starving for wings who can defend a few positions and make an open shot, Kuminga has a relatively high floor.

"I just see myself as the best player in this draft," Kuminga told us when we were in Orlando. "But I'm not going to stay talking like I'm the best player. I've still got a lot of things to show, a lot of things to work on, a lot of things to prove. I'm just going to keep working and being the best version of myself. That's pretty much what I'm worried about."

play
1:10
The best of Jonathan Kuminga in comic-book formJonathan Kuminga took advantage of his time in the G League with some explosive plays.
How does this top-5 rank historically?
There have been only six drafts with three or more All-Stars selected in the top five since 2000. The 2018 class could make it seven; Doncic and Trae Young have already been All-Stars, and Ayton and Jackson have All-Star potential. The past two drafts each feature two clear All-Stars: Zion Williamson and Ja Morant in 2019, and Edwards and LaMelo Ball in 2020.

Still, it's hard to find a draft with up to four All-Stars selected in the top five. With executives regularly saying this crop has multiple No. 1-caliber picks, this year has that type of firepower at the top.

NBA Drafts With 3+ All-Stars In The Top Five (Since 2000)
YEAR ALL-STARS PLAYERS
2016 3 Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, Jaylen Brown
2015 3 Karl-Anthony Towns, D'Angelo Russell, Kristaps Porzingis
2008 3 Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love
2007 3 Kevin Durant, Al Horford, Mike Conley Jr.
2005 3 Andrew Bogut, Deron Williams, Chris Paul
2003 4 LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade
Maybe even more impressive is the combination of floor and ceiling for each of the projected top-five picks. In recent drafts, for every Ben Simmons or Brandon Ingram, there has been a Dragan Bender or Kris Dunn. For every Karl-Anthony Towns, there has been a Jahlil Okafor or Mario Hezonja. For every Joel Embiid, there's a Dante Exum. This 2021 class doesn't appear to have that volatility at the top.

How do teams see the pecking order?
Some teams see a tier within the top five, with Cunningham, Green and Mobley as All-Star-caliber players with Suggs and Kuminga as clear-cut starters with the potential to become All-Stars in the future. Some prefer Suggs to both Green and Mobley. Overall, most see a core four of sorts, with a level of comfort surrounding Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Suggs, given their productivity and efficiency.

As far as the rankings within that, it's relatively fluid depending on who you talk to. Cunningham is still the name you hear most at the top, and he's who I would personally select No. 1 regardless of fit. But you do occasionally hear some support for Green at the top given his dynamic style and scoring ability. As I said with LaMelo Ball and Edwards last year, it's almost a matter of what you're looking for. The top five offers virtually every different type of potential franchise building block.

Altogether, this 2021 top five is well-balanced and versatile, giving executives a plethora of options. How many games would a team made up of all five of them win in a year after a few seasons of NBA experience? I'd guess quite a few.

Could anyone else crack the top five?
Not every team considers the top five as set in stone.

"I still think somebody else is going to come out of the pile and push their way up," one NBA exec said.

Who are the candidates to crack the top five, and why are they in the conversation?

Scottie Barnes

Having recently watched Barnes work out in Santa Barbara, California, he has an outstanding 6-foot-9 frame, a 7-foot-3 wingspan, a 9-foot-1 standing reach and impressive all-around metrics according to sports science company P3. While Suggs is rightfully praised for his intangibles, Barnes is right there with him, and could have a Haliburton-type of impact on a franchise from a personality and competitiveness standpoint. Whether he's going through a workout or watching pickup on the sideline, his spirit is contagious, which has been the case since we first evaluated him as a 15-year-old.


Although he'll never be wired to score the ball, Barnes does just about everything else, often earning supersized Draymond Green and Simmons comparisons, something he embraces. He can bring the ball up and facilitate like a point guard and defend almost all five positions, and he's making strides as a standstill 3-point shooter. All of that combined with his fit in today's NBA could lead some teams to prefer him to Kuminga, and potentially others currently slated ahead of him.

"I feel like I can do it all," Barnes said during a film session. "I'm a winner. I feel like that's the best thing about me, I'm a winner. I'm very unselfish on the floor. I help teams win. That's why they should bet on me. I feel like I'm one of the best prospects in this draft and with me on your team you just instantly get a lot better from that."

Davion Mitchell

Mitchell is one of the most accomplished prospects in the draft and arguably more NBA ready than anyone else in this class. Already an elite defender, a dynamic driver, a nuanced playmaker, a versatile shotmaker and a national champion, it's easy to slot Mitchell in as an immediate starter with more upside than your typical 23-year-old.


Keon Johnson

While not nearly as NBA-ready as some of the aforementioned prospects, few players in this draft can rival Johnson's physical skills. He also plays with an excellent motor, is an underrated passer, and those who have spent time around him rave about his level of focus, intensity and hunger coming out of Shelbyville, Tennessee, a town of just over 20,000.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#866 » by HEZI » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:24 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
HEZI wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:

Near the end of the NBL season he was taking more off the dribble threes but nothing to give me a ton of confidence that he'd become a three level scorer. Maybe you could get him to work with our starters if he was a better athlete? Like a discount version of Ben Simmons that picked up the pace for everyone but he doesn't really have that extra. Maybe it's something he can improve on cuz he's a pretty lanky teen but I wouldn't count on it.


He feels like a terrible fit for our style, as terrible as our style is, it is who we are so doubt that changes unless like I said we make major changes to the starting lineup. But we play a halfcourt style with a slower pace and the ball is in Randle's hands a lot where he's initiating a lot of the offense (not that he should but he does) . Giddey doesn't have much of an off the ball game, maybe he can knock some shots down here and there but nothing to the point where I would trust him to be a reliable kick out option. He seems way better suited for an open transition game, with athletes and shooters and ball handling where guys are making quick decisions with the ball. That's not our style, we're a dump it to Randle for shot clock burning 1 on 3 type of team. With our bench, I think he could be fine playing next to IQ and Obi and others, but with the starters I just see a terrible fit.


I wonder how much of our offensive style was cuz of the personal we have here. Like I definitely remember Thibs in Chicago running guys like Korver and Rip Hamilton off screens to get open jumpers. Let's hope there's more wrinkles cuz I don't want to watch our whole offense fall apart cuz of a big making a soft double on Randle.


I think it has a lot more to do with who we do have and who we feature. Would be easier to establish that style without a main piece of the offense being Julius Randle. Knowing what we know about Randle and his style, its hard to see anything changing. Randle is not a quick decision maker and he milks the clock leaving guys ball watching, it's just his style and unless they plan on going away from that, expect very little to change. The only thing to do is to improve the halfcourt game to suit his style but unless an absolute stud who is established in the league somehow arrives, very little will change in the way we play so we can just look to improve the execution and efficiency but the style is not going anywhere anytime soon.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#867 » by NewKnicks » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:25 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:


Hey Jim or Melo.. Do you have ESPN Plus? Would you mind posting the rest of this article? I'd love to read it but I don't have ESPN Plus. Thanks to whoever posts it.


Spoiler:
Over the past 20 years, only one draft class has produced four All-Stars in the top five picks. And while the 2021 draft isn't expected to be led by four future Hall of Famers, like 2003 with LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade, there's a sense within NBA circles that the top of this year's crop could end up being as strong as any we've seen in the past two decades.

"That top five is potentially as stout as any of the other drafts [since 2000]," one high-ranking NBA executive said. "There are years where the No. 1 pick would never be the No. 1 pick ever again. Some drafts lack that No. 1 pick. This one's legit. I'm a big fan. There's legit star power [in the top 5]."

It's no secret the draft is an inexact science. Nikola Jokic, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Stephen Curry, who've combined to win five of the past seven MVP awards, were all drafted outside the top five. There will surely be players projected outside the top five of this draft who turn into NBA stars. But less than two weeks away from the NBA draft lottery, which will determine the final pick order, teams are waiting anxiously in hopes of landing inside the coveted top five, and for good reason. Cade Cunningham, Jalen Green, Evan Mobley, Jalen Suggs and Jonathan Kuminga all represent game-changing prospects, each for a different reason.

What makes each one so intriguing? Is there a tier within that group? And who else could crack the top five of this draft?


Cade Cunningham: The Jumbo Shot Creator
Physical: Between 6-foot-7 and 6-8, 225 pounds, 7-foot-1 to 7-2 wingspan
Key Stat: Most efficient isolation scorer in the NCAA
Similarities To: Luka Doncic, Khris Middleton, Jayson Tatum
What's His Superpower? Versatility

As Oklahoma State head coach Mike Boynton told us during the college season, "No matter who is on your roster, Cade fits."

Cunningham's versatility is a big reason he's the favorite to go No. 1 overall regardless of who ends up winning the lottery. At somewhere between 6-7 and 6-8 with long arms and a strong frame, Cunningham shifted all over the floor for Oklahoma State, bringing the ball up the court, finishing possessions out of isolation and pick-and-roll (over 47% of his offense), spacing the floor as a shooter, operating as a screener and even creating from the post. He's the only player projected in the top five who could legitimately play four positions.

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Cunningham has found success in a variety of roles throughout his amateur career. At Montverde, he was the lead guard, table-setter and shot creator for Scottie Barnes, Moses Moody, and Day'Ron Sharpe on one of the greatest teams in high school basketball history. With the U19 USA team in Crete, he thrived as a playmaking wing alongside Green, Suggs and Tyrese Haliburton, averaging 12-5-6 in 24 minutes on his way to a gold medal. With the Texas Titans on the Nike EYBL Circuit, he shouldered the load, averaging 24-7-6 while shooting 64% from 2 and 35% from 3, ranking fourth in the league in scoring and first in total win shares for the 18 games in our database (17-1). At Oklahoma State he led a ho-hum Cowboys roster to the Big 12 title game -- knocking off Baylor in the process -- as the primary shot-creator while ranking among the team's top two in points, rebounds, assists and blocks.

Thanks to his ability to play on or off the ball (40% from 3), his floor is a Khris Middleton type, while on the high end, Cunningham has shades of Tatum and Luka Doncic, thanks to his stellar court vision. Simply put, Cunningham is capable in a wide range of roles, and thanks to his calm demeanor, late-game heroics and clutch gene, he still has quite a bit of upside to tap into.

"I feel like I affect the game in so many different ways," Cunningham said. "It's going to be hard to find somebody else that's versatile and can affect the game in this many ways. ... I know there are a lot of other big time players, but I think I'm the one."

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Cade Cunningham's versatility makes him a can't-miss NBA prospectCade Cunningham is the favorite to be the top pick in the NBA draft after showcasing his versatility at Oklahoma State.
MORE: Answering scouts' biggest questions about Cade Cunningham

Jalen Green: The Most Star Potential
Physical: 6-foot-6, 190 pounds with about a 6-foot-9 wingspan
Key Stats: 10th in the G League in scoring at just 19 years old (18.7 points in 32.4 minutes)
Similarities To: Zach LaVine, Bradley Beal, wiry Anthony Edwards
What's His Superpower? Effortless scoring ability

Green is far and away the most dynamic of the five prospects. Watching him work out in Los Angeles recently, he dunks on the way up and gets up and down the floor with incredible ease. He has turned himself into quite the shot-maker over the past year or so (36% from 3 in the G League bubble), creating space as well as any teenager I can remember. No prospect can score with the same level of ease as Green, who also showed progress as a ball handler, passer (3.1 assists per game), and on-ball defender in the bubble. Although he has a much different body type, Green could very well have an Anthony Edwards type of impact as a rookie. He'll have nights when he scores 30-plus points, become a SportsCenter top-10 mainstay and infuse a level of excitement into his new fan base, while likely battling some inefficiency and defensive growing pains in Year 1.

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Green has no shortage of fans in NBA front offices, and there's an argument to be made that he has the most star potential in the draft. One NBA executive said Green has a chance to be a "10-time All-Star and 25-point-per-game scorer" once he settles into the NBA game. Green has a Zach Lavine type of effortless bounce with Bradley Beal-like shotmaking ability and scoring instincts, which is clearly an intriguing combination for a franchise in search of star power. Ask him who the best prospect in the draft is, and Green doesn't mince words.

"Me, I'm the best prospect in this draft, in my opinion," Green said. "I didn't go to college and I played against grown men. I just think as a 19-year-old doing that, I'm the best player in the draft for sure."

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Top NBA prospect Jalen Green looks ready for the big leagueCheck out the highlights that make the G League's Jalen Green look NBA ready.
Evan Mobley: The Modern Big
Physical: 7 feet, 220 pounds, 7-foot-4 wingspan
Key Stats: Seventh in the NCAA in half-court scoring efficiency
Similarities To: Anthony Davis, Chris Bosh, Jaren Jackson Jr.
What's His Superpower? Perimeter Prowess

Mobley is the draft's best big man, but that doesn't mean he'll be anchored inside the paint. It's his ability to play on the perimeter on both ends of the floor at 7 feet tall -- along with his stellar feel for the game -- that separates him from the rest of this class as well as recent top big man prospects like James Wiseman and Deandre Ayton.

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"10, 15 years ago it was mostly, if you're a big you stay inside the paint," Mobley told ESPN's Jonathan Givony at a USA Basketball Minicamp in October of 2018. "But nowadays in the NBA you see a lot of players stretching the floor a lot. [Kevin Durant], he's 7 feet but he has a good 3 ball. I'm trying to be like that, get my 3 ball up a little bit. Try to be like Giannis [Antetokounmpo] as well, driving to the basket, and kind of like Anthony Davis with the back to the basket and also stretch the floor."

Mobley regularly brought the ball up the floor and initiated offense for Rancho Christian High School. His feel for the game and positional handle are rare; USC even started using him as a pick-and-roll ball handler late in the season. He's an intelligent passer (2.8 assists per 40) with the shooting mechanics to eventually space the floor from 3 despite converting just 30% as a freshman, which will allow him to play both 4 and 5.

On the defensive end, his fluidity and foot speed help him to switch onto guards and wings with ease. He's also a nuanced pick-and-roll defender, has great touch on the interior and excellent shot-blocking instincts (3.4 blocks per 40). While I've compared him to a young Davis, there's also a lot of Bosh in his game with his body type, all-around game and skill level.


It's no secret in NBA circles that Mobley could very well end up as the best player to come out of this draft once his body fills out. He could use a more physical big alongside him early on given his rebounding struggles and slight build. Even if it's not in his nature to take over games as a scorer, he's going to impact winning wherever he goes, and his combination of floor and ceiling has scouts excited about his future in the NBA.

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1:34
Evan Mobley's versatility, athleticism make him an intriguing NBA prospectCheck out USC big man Evan Mobley's highlights that show how his physical skills and versatility make him a top prospect in the NBA draft.
Jalen Suggs: The Two-Way Guard
Physical: 6-foot-4, 205 pounds, 6-foot-6 wingspan
Key Stats: First high-major player to average at 19 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists and 2.5 steals per 40 minutes since Penny Hardaway in 1992
Similarities To: Jrue Holiday, Brandon Roy
What's His Superpower? Winning Impact

Suggs is a culture-changer who will instantly bring toughness and a winning mentality wherever he goes. While his open-court passing, aggressive rim attacks and ability to knock down shots late in games are what you see on the floor, it's what Suggs brings on a day-to-day basis that differentiates him from the rest of this group.

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Coaches and staff who have been around him say he's the most competitive player they've ever coached. Suggs was 19-0 with three gold medals during his USA Basketball career. He was the best player on one of the best teams college basketball has ever seen. In addition to his game-winning bank against UCLA, he was the only Gonzaga Bulldog who showed up against Baylor, scoring 22 points in 33 minutes. His handle, shooting and finishing finesse still need work, so it's natural to wonder what his season would have looked like if he was asked to create the majority of his team's offense like Cunningham at Oklahoma State. But Suggs is a winner in every sense of the word. He makes game-changing plays in big moments that suggests he has the potential to be far more than just an NBA starter in the right situation.

I've often compared him to Holiday because of his defensive physicality, toughness and ability to play on or off the ball. Suggs is further along than Holiday -- the 17th overall pick in 2009 -- was at the same stage, and far more electric with the ball in the open court. He and Holiday have physical similarities and are both highly appreciated for their defensive prowess and winning ways. Holiday is a former NBA All-Star, annual Defensive Player of the Year candidate, Teammate of the Year (2020) and Sportsmanship Award winner (2021) who is averaging 16-4-6 over the course of his career while defending the other team's best player -- not a bad outcome for Suggs.

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Jalen Suggs is a human highlight reel ready for the NBAGonzaga's Jalen Suggs is ready for the NBA, and he's bringing his incredible handles with him.
Jonathan Kuminga: The Wild Card
Physical: 6-foot-8, 225 pounds, 7-foot-1 wingspan
Key Stats: 1.2 steals and 1.0 blocks per 40 minutes
Similarities To: Jaylen Brown, taller DeMar DeRozan
What's His Superpower? Two-Way Potential

Kuminga is the most physically ready of the top five, with ideal tools for a two-way wing in today's NBA. Of the aforementioned prospects, Kuminga is the only one an NBA coach could comfortably ask to slow elite wing scorers such as Kawhi Leonard, Paul George and Tatum, even if his discipline and motor on that end are still evolving.

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It wasn't long ago that NBA scouts were gushing about Kuminga as a potential No. 1 pick after he averaged 22 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal and 1 block per game over his first three G League bubble contests (all wins). He was the best player on the floor in both pre-bubble scrimmages (24-5-3), and G League Ignite staffers with NBA experience regularly touted him as a potential top pick. However, some of Kuminga's shortcomings started to show as the bubble went on. He shot just 33% from 2 and 22% from 3 over his last five games and ultimately opted to shut it down after 13 games due to injury.

Given some of the ups and downs in Orlando, Florida, teams have seemed to feel more comfortable with names like Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Suggs over Kuminga. It has also been more difficult for teams to gather accurate intel and background information on Kuminga, who grew up in Congo and bounced around between different schools once arriving in the United States.


Still, having recently watched Kuminga work out for two days in Orlando, there's no questioning his ability. He's a better shooter than his 25% G League clip suggests. He looks every bit of 6-foot-8 with a tremendous frame, excellent length and sharp footwork. He's comfortable creating from all over the floor and scoring out of the midpost, even showing glimpses of court vision in the open floor. If a team can iron out Kuminga's jumper, stabilize his defensive motor and get him to play a more free-flowing, ball-moving style, it could end up with one of the best players to come out of this 2021 draft, just like he was billed less than five months ago. And with teams starving for wings who can defend a few positions and make an open shot, Kuminga has a relatively high floor.

"I just see myself as the best player in this draft," Kuminga told us when we were in Orlando. "But I'm not going to stay talking like I'm the best player. I've still got a lot of things to show, a lot of things to work on, a lot of things to prove. I'm just going to keep working and being the best version of myself. That's pretty much what I'm worried about."

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The best of Jonathan Kuminga in comic-book formJonathan Kuminga took advantage of his time in the G League with some explosive plays.
How does this top-5 rank historically?
There have been only six drafts with three or more All-Stars selected in the top five since 2000. The 2018 class could make it seven; Doncic and Trae Young have already been All-Stars, and Ayton and Jackson have All-Star potential. The past two drafts each feature two clear All-Stars: Zion Williamson and Ja Morant in 2019, and Edwards and LaMelo Ball in 2020.

Still, it's hard to find a draft with up to four All-Stars selected in the top five. With executives regularly saying this crop has multiple No. 1-caliber picks, this year has that type of firepower at the top.

NBA Drafts With 3+ All-Stars In The Top Five (Since 2000)
YEAR ALL-STARS PLAYERS
2016 3 Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, Jaylen Brown
2015 3 Karl-Anthony Towns, D'Angelo Russell, Kristaps Porzingis
2008 3 Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love
2007 3 Kevin Durant, Al Horford, Mike Conley Jr.
2005 3 Andrew Bogut, Deron Williams, Chris Paul
2003 4 LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade
Maybe even more impressive is the combination of floor and ceiling for each of the projected top-five picks. In recent drafts, for every Ben Simmons or Brandon Ingram, there has been a Dragan Bender or Kris Dunn. For every Karl-Anthony Towns, there has been a Jahlil Okafor or Mario Hezonja. For every Joel Embiid, there's a Dante Exum. This 2021 class doesn't appear to have that volatility at the top.

How do teams see the pecking order?
Some teams see a tier within the top five, with Cunningham, Green and Mobley as All-Star-caliber players with Suggs and Kuminga as clear-cut starters with the potential to become All-Stars in the future. Some prefer Suggs to both Green and Mobley. Overall, most see a core four of sorts, with a level of comfort surrounding Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Suggs, given their productivity and efficiency.

As far as the rankings within that, it's relatively fluid depending on who you talk to. Cunningham is still the name you hear most at the top, and he's who I would personally select No. 1 regardless of fit. But you do occasionally hear some support for Green at the top given his dynamic style and scoring ability. As I said with LaMelo Ball and Edwards last year, it's almost a matter of what you're looking for. The top five offers virtually every different type of potential franchise building block.

Altogether, this 2021 top five is well-balanced and versatile, giving executives a plethora of options. How many games would a team made up of all five of them win in a year after a few seasons of NBA experience? I'd guess quite a few.

Could anyone else crack the top five?
Not every team considers the top five as set in stone.

"I still think somebody else is going to come out of the pile and push their way up," one NBA exec said.

Who are the candidates to crack the top five, and why are they in the conversation?

Scottie Barnes

Having recently watched Barnes work out in Santa Barbara, California, he has an outstanding 6-foot-9 frame, a 7-foot-3 wingspan, a 9-foot-1 standing reach and impressive all-around metrics according to sports science company P3. While Suggs is rightfully praised for his intangibles, Barnes is right there with him, and could have a Haliburton-type of impact on a franchise from a personality and competitiveness standpoint. Whether he's going through a workout or watching pickup on the sideline, his spirit is contagious, which has been the case since we first evaluated him as a 15-year-old.


Although he'll never be wired to score the ball, Barnes does just about everything else, often earning supersized Draymond Green and Simmons comparisons, something he embraces. He can bring the ball up and facilitate like a point guard and defend almost all five positions, and he's making strides as a standstill 3-point shooter. All of that combined with his fit in today's NBA could lead some teams to prefer him to Kuminga, and potentially others currently slated ahead of him.

"I feel like I can do it all," Barnes said during a film session. "I'm a winner. I feel like that's the best thing about me, I'm a winner. I'm very unselfish on the floor. I help teams win. That's why they should bet on me. I feel like I'm one of the best prospects in this draft and with me on your team you just instantly get a lot better from that."

Davion Mitchell

Mitchell is one of the most accomplished prospects in the draft and arguably more NBA ready than anyone else in this class. Already an elite defender, a dynamic driver, a nuanced playmaker, a versatile shotmaker and a national champion, it's easy to slot Mitchell in as an immediate starter with more upside than your typical 23-year-old.


Keon Johnson

While not nearly as NBA-ready as some of the aforementioned prospects, few players in this draft can rival Johnson's physical skills. He also plays with an excellent motor, is an underrated passer, and those who have spent time around him rave about his level of focus, intensity and hunger coming out of Shelbyville, Tennessee, a town of just over 20,000.



Thanks buddy! I really appreciate it.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#868 » by NewKnicks » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:29 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:


Hey Jim or Melo.. Do you have ESPN Plus? Would you mind posting the rest of this article? I'd love to read it but I don't have ESPN Plus. Thanks to whoever posts it.


Spoiler:
Over the past 20 years, only one draft class has produced four All-Stars in the top five picks. And while the 2021 draft isn't expected to be led by four future Hall of Famers, like 2003 with LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade, there's a sense within NBA circles that the top of this year's crop could end up being as strong as any we've seen in the past two decades.

"That top five is potentially as stout as any of the other drafts [since 2000]," one high-ranking NBA executive said. "There are years where the No. 1 pick would never be the No. 1 pick ever again. Some drafts lack that No. 1 pick. This one's legit. I'm a big fan. There's legit star power [in the top 5]."

It's no secret the draft is an inexact science. Nikola Jokic, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Stephen Curry, who've combined to win five of the past seven MVP awards, were all drafted outside the top five. There will surely be players projected outside the top five of this draft who turn into NBA stars. But less than two weeks away from the NBA draft lottery, which will determine the final pick order, teams are waiting anxiously in hopes of landing inside the coveted top five, and for good reason. Cade Cunningham, Jalen Green, Evan Mobley, Jalen Suggs and Jonathan Kuminga all represent game-changing prospects, each for a different reason.

What makes each one so intriguing? Is there a tier within that group? And who else could crack the top five of this draft?


Cade Cunningham: The Jumbo Shot Creator
Physical: Between 6-foot-7 and 6-8, 225 pounds, 7-foot-1 to 7-2 wingspan
Key Stat: Most efficient isolation scorer in the NCAA
Similarities To: Luka Doncic, Khris Middleton, Jayson Tatum
What's His Superpower? Versatility

As Oklahoma State head coach Mike Boynton told us during the college season, "No matter who is on your roster, Cade fits."

Cunningham's versatility is a big reason he's the favorite to go No. 1 overall regardless of who ends up winning the lottery. At somewhere between 6-7 and 6-8 with long arms and a strong frame, Cunningham shifted all over the floor for Oklahoma State, bringing the ball up the court, finishing possessions out of isolation and pick-and-roll (over 47% of his offense), spacing the floor as a shooter, operating as a screener and even creating from the post. He's the only player projected in the top five who could legitimately play four positions.

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Cunningham has found success in a variety of roles throughout his amateur career. At Montverde, he was the lead guard, table-setter and shot creator for Scottie Barnes, Moses Moody, and Day'Ron Sharpe on one of the greatest teams in high school basketball history. With the U19 USA team in Crete, he thrived as a playmaking wing alongside Green, Suggs and Tyrese Haliburton, averaging 12-5-6 in 24 minutes on his way to a gold medal. With the Texas Titans on the Nike EYBL Circuit, he shouldered the load, averaging 24-7-6 while shooting 64% from 2 and 35% from 3, ranking fourth in the league in scoring and first in total win shares for the 18 games in our database (17-1). At Oklahoma State he led a ho-hum Cowboys roster to the Big 12 title game -- knocking off Baylor in the process -- as the primary shot-creator while ranking among the team's top two in points, rebounds, assists and blocks.

Thanks to his ability to play on or off the ball (40% from 3), his floor is a Khris Middleton type, while on the high end, Cunningham has shades of Tatum and Luka Doncic, thanks to his stellar court vision. Simply put, Cunningham is capable in a wide range of roles, and thanks to his calm demeanor, late-game heroics and clutch gene, he still has quite a bit of upside to tap into.

"I feel like I affect the game in so many different ways," Cunningham said. "It's going to be hard to find somebody else that's versatile and can affect the game in this many ways. ... I know there are a lot of other big time players, but I think I'm the one."

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Cade Cunningham's versatility makes him a can't-miss NBA prospectCade Cunningham is the favorite to be the top pick in the NBA draft after showcasing his versatility at Oklahoma State.
MORE: Answering scouts' biggest questions about Cade Cunningham

Jalen Green: The Most Star Potential
Physical: 6-foot-6, 190 pounds with about a 6-foot-9 wingspan
Key Stats: 10th in the G League in scoring at just 19 years old (18.7 points in 32.4 minutes)
Similarities To: Zach LaVine, Bradley Beal, wiry Anthony Edwards
What's His Superpower? Effortless scoring ability

Green is far and away the most dynamic of the five prospects. Watching him work out in Los Angeles recently, he dunks on the way up and gets up and down the floor with incredible ease. He has turned himself into quite the shot-maker over the past year or so (36% from 3 in the G League bubble), creating space as well as any teenager I can remember. No prospect can score with the same level of ease as Green, who also showed progress as a ball handler, passer (3.1 assists per game), and on-ball defender in the bubble. Although he has a much different body type, Green could very well have an Anthony Edwards type of impact as a rookie. He'll have nights when he scores 30-plus points, become a SportsCenter top-10 mainstay and infuse a level of excitement into his new fan base, while likely battling some inefficiency and defensive growing pains in Year 1.

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Green has no shortage of fans in NBA front offices, and there's an argument to be made that he has the most star potential in the draft. One NBA executive said Green has a chance to be a "10-time All-Star and 25-point-per-game scorer" once he settles into the NBA game. Green has a Zach Lavine type of effortless bounce with Bradley Beal-like shotmaking ability and scoring instincts, which is clearly an intriguing combination for a franchise in search of star power. Ask him who the best prospect in the draft is, and Green doesn't mince words.

"Me, I'm the best prospect in this draft, in my opinion," Green said. "I didn't go to college and I played against grown men. I just think as a 19-year-old doing that, I'm the best player in the draft for sure."

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1:31
Top NBA prospect Jalen Green looks ready for the big leagueCheck out the highlights that make the G League's Jalen Green look NBA ready.
Evan Mobley: The Modern Big
Physical: 7 feet, 220 pounds, 7-foot-4 wingspan
Key Stats: Seventh in the NCAA in half-court scoring efficiency
Similarities To: Anthony Davis, Chris Bosh, Jaren Jackson Jr.
What's His Superpower? Perimeter Prowess

Mobley is the draft's best big man, but that doesn't mean he'll be anchored inside the paint. It's his ability to play on the perimeter on both ends of the floor at 7 feet tall -- along with his stellar feel for the game -- that separates him from the rest of this class as well as recent top big man prospects like James Wiseman and Deandre Ayton.

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"10, 15 years ago it was mostly, if you're a big you stay inside the paint," Mobley told ESPN's Jonathan Givony at a USA Basketball Minicamp in October of 2018. "But nowadays in the NBA you see a lot of players stretching the floor a lot. [Kevin Durant], he's 7 feet but he has a good 3 ball. I'm trying to be like that, get my 3 ball up a little bit. Try to be like Giannis [Antetokounmpo] as well, driving to the basket, and kind of like Anthony Davis with the back to the basket and also stretch the floor."

Mobley regularly brought the ball up the floor and initiated offense for Rancho Christian High School. His feel for the game and positional handle are rare; USC even started using him as a pick-and-roll ball handler late in the season. He's an intelligent passer (2.8 assists per 40) with the shooting mechanics to eventually space the floor from 3 despite converting just 30% as a freshman, which will allow him to play both 4 and 5.

On the defensive end, his fluidity and foot speed help him to switch onto guards and wings with ease. He's also a nuanced pick-and-roll defender, has great touch on the interior and excellent shot-blocking instincts (3.4 blocks per 40). While I've compared him to a young Davis, there's also a lot of Bosh in his game with his body type, all-around game and skill level.


It's no secret in NBA circles that Mobley could very well end up as the best player to come out of this draft once his body fills out. He could use a more physical big alongside him early on given his rebounding struggles and slight build. Even if it's not in his nature to take over games as a scorer, he's going to impact winning wherever he goes, and his combination of floor and ceiling has scouts excited about his future in the NBA.

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1:34
Evan Mobley's versatility, athleticism make him an intriguing NBA prospectCheck out USC big man Evan Mobley's highlights that show how his physical skills and versatility make him a top prospect in the NBA draft.
Jalen Suggs: The Two-Way Guard
Physical: 6-foot-4, 205 pounds, 6-foot-6 wingspan
Key Stats: First high-major player to average at 19 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists and 2.5 steals per 40 minutes since Penny Hardaway in 1992
Similarities To: Jrue Holiday, Brandon Roy
What's His Superpower? Winning Impact

Suggs is a culture-changer who will instantly bring toughness and a winning mentality wherever he goes. While his open-court passing, aggressive rim attacks and ability to knock down shots late in games are what you see on the floor, it's what Suggs brings on a day-to-day basis that differentiates him from the rest of this group.

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Coaches and staff who have been around him say he's the most competitive player they've ever coached. Suggs was 19-0 with three gold medals during his USA Basketball career. He was the best player on one of the best teams college basketball has ever seen. In addition to his game-winning bank against UCLA, he was the only Gonzaga Bulldog who showed up against Baylor, scoring 22 points in 33 minutes. His handle, shooting and finishing finesse still need work, so it's natural to wonder what his season would have looked like if he was asked to create the majority of his team's offense like Cunningham at Oklahoma State. But Suggs is a winner in every sense of the word. He makes game-changing plays in big moments that suggests he has the potential to be far more than just an NBA starter in the right situation.

I've often compared him to Holiday because of his defensive physicality, toughness and ability to play on or off the ball. Suggs is further along than Holiday -- the 17th overall pick in 2009 -- was at the same stage, and far more electric with the ball in the open court. He and Holiday have physical similarities and are both highly appreciated for their defensive prowess and winning ways. Holiday is a former NBA All-Star, annual Defensive Player of the Year candidate, Teammate of the Year (2020) and Sportsmanship Award winner (2021) who is averaging 16-4-6 over the course of his career while defending the other team's best player -- not a bad outcome for Suggs.

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1:40
Jalen Suggs is a human highlight reel ready for the NBAGonzaga's Jalen Suggs is ready for the NBA, and he's bringing his incredible handles with him.
Jonathan Kuminga: The Wild Card
Physical: 6-foot-8, 225 pounds, 7-foot-1 wingspan
Key Stats: 1.2 steals and 1.0 blocks per 40 minutes
Similarities To: Jaylen Brown, taller DeMar DeRozan
What's His Superpower? Two-Way Potential

Kuminga is the most physically ready of the top five, with ideal tools for a two-way wing in today's NBA. Of the aforementioned prospects, Kuminga is the only one an NBA coach could comfortably ask to slow elite wing scorers such as Kawhi Leonard, Paul George and Tatum, even if his discipline and motor on that end are still evolving.

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It wasn't long ago that NBA scouts were gushing about Kuminga as a potential No. 1 pick after he averaged 22 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal and 1 block per game over his first three G League bubble contests (all wins). He was the best player on the floor in both pre-bubble scrimmages (24-5-3), and G League Ignite staffers with NBA experience regularly touted him as a potential top pick. However, some of Kuminga's shortcomings started to show as the bubble went on. He shot just 33% from 2 and 22% from 3 over his last five games and ultimately opted to shut it down after 13 games due to injury.

Given some of the ups and downs in Orlando, Florida, teams have seemed to feel more comfortable with names like Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Suggs over Kuminga. It has also been more difficult for teams to gather accurate intel and background information on Kuminga, who grew up in Congo and bounced around between different schools once arriving in the United States.


Still, having recently watched Kuminga work out for two days in Orlando, there's no questioning his ability. He's a better shooter than his 25% G League clip suggests. He looks every bit of 6-foot-8 with a tremendous frame, excellent length and sharp footwork. He's comfortable creating from all over the floor and scoring out of the midpost, even showing glimpses of court vision in the open floor. If a team can iron out Kuminga's jumper, stabilize his defensive motor and get him to play a more free-flowing, ball-moving style, it could end up with one of the best players to come out of this 2021 draft, just like he was billed less than five months ago. And with teams starving for wings who can defend a few positions and make an open shot, Kuminga has a relatively high floor.

"I just see myself as the best player in this draft," Kuminga told us when we were in Orlando. "But I'm not going to stay talking like I'm the best player. I've still got a lot of things to show, a lot of things to work on, a lot of things to prove. I'm just going to keep working and being the best version of myself. That's pretty much what I'm worried about."

play
1:10
The best of Jonathan Kuminga in comic-book formJonathan Kuminga took advantage of his time in the G League with some explosive plays.
How does this top-5 rank historically?
There have been only six drafts with three or more All-Stars selected in the top five since 2000. The 2018 class could make it seven; Doncic and Trae Young have already been All-Stars, and Ayton and Jackson have All-Star potential. The past two drafts each feature two clear All-Stars: Zion Williamson and Ja Morant in 2019, and Edwards and LaMelo Ball in 2020.

Still, it's hard to find a draft with up to four All-Stars selected in the top five. With executives regularly saying this crop has multiple No. 1-caliber picks, this year has that type of firepower at the top.

NBA Drafts With 3+ All-Stars In The Top Five (Since 2000)
YEAR ALL-STARS PLAYERS
2016 3 Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, Jaylen Brown
2015 3 Karl-Anthony Towns, D'Angelo Russell, Kristaps Porzingis
2008 3 Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love
2007 3 Kevin Durant, Al Horford, Mike Conley Jr.
2005 3 Andrew Bogut, Deron Williams, Chris Paul
2003 4 LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade
Maybe even more impressive is the combination of floor and ceiling for each of the projected top-five picks. In recent drafts, for every Ben Simmons or Brandon Ingram, there has been a Dragan Bender or Kris Dunn. For every Karl-Anthony Towns, there has been a Jahlil Okafor or Mario Hezonja. For every Joel Embiid, there's a Dante Exum. This 2021 class doesn't appear to have that volatility at the top.

How do teams see the pecking order?
Some teams see a tier within the top five, with Cunningham, Green and Mobley as All-Star-caliber players with Suggs and Kuminga as clear-cut starters with the potential to become All-Stars in the future. Some prefer Suggs to both Green and Mobley. Overall, most see a core four of sorts, with a level of comfort surrounding Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Suggs, given their productivity and efficiency.

As far as the rankings within that, it's relatively fluid depending on who you talk to. Cunningham is still the name you hear most at the top, and he's who I would personally select No. 1 regardless of fit. But you do occasionally hear some support for Green at the top given his dynamic style and scoring ability. As I said with LaMelo Ball and Edwards last year, it's almost a matter of what you're looking for. The top five offers virtually every different type of potential franchise building block.

Altogether, this 2021 top five is well-balanced and versatile, giving executives a plethora of options. How many games would a team made up of all five of them win in a year after a few seasons of NBA experience? I'd guess quite a few.

Could anyone else crack the top five?
Not every team considers the top five as set in stone.

"I still think somebody else is going to come out of the pile and push their way up," one NBA exec said.

Who are the candidates to crack the top five, and why are they in the conversation?

Scottie Barnes

Having recently watched Barnes work out in Santa Barbara, California, he has an outstanding 6-foot-9 frame, a 7-foot-3 wingspan, a 9-foot-1 standing reach and impressive all-around metrics according to sports science company P3. While Suggs is rightfully praised for his intangibles, Barnes is right there with him, and could have a Haliburton-type of impact on a franchise from a personality and competitiveness standpoint. Whether he's going through a workout or watching pickup on the sideline, his spirit is contagious, which has been the case since we first evaluated him as a 15-year-old.


Although he'll never be wired to score the ball, Barnes does just about everything else, often earning supersized Draymond Green and Simmons comparisons, something he embraces. He can bring the ball up and facilitate like a point guard and defend almost all five positions, and he's making strides as a standstill 3-point shooter. All of that combined with his fit in today's NBA could lead some teams to prefer him to Kuminga, and potentially others currently slated ahead of him.

"I feel like I can do it all," Barnes said during a film session. "I'm a winner. I feel like that's the best thing about me, I'm a winner. I'm very unselfish on the floor. I help teams win. That's why they should bet on me. I feel like I'm one of the best prospects in this draft and with me on your team you just instantly get a lot better from that."

Davion Mitchell

Mitchell is one of the most accomplished prospects in the draft and arguably more NBA ready than anyone else in this class. Already an elite defender, a dynamic driver, a nuanced playmaker, a versatile shotmaker and a national champion, it's easy to slot Mitchell in as an immediate starter with more upside than your typical 23-year-old.


Keon Johnson

While not nearly as NBA-ready as some of the aforementioned prospects, few players in this draft can rival Johnson's physical skills. He also plays with an excellent motor, is an underrated passer, and those who have spent time around him rave about his level of focus, intensity and hunger coming out of Shelbyville, Tennessee, a town of just over 20,000.


At Montverde, he was the lead guard, table-setter and shot creator for Scottie Barnes, Moses Moody, and Day'Ron Sharpe on one of the greatest teams in high school basketball history.

How crazy is that? That team must have been so fun to watch.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#869 » by NewKnicks » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:44 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:Another hot take. Josh Giddey seems more like Tomas Satoransky than Lamelo Ball to me. I would take Bouknight, Tre Mann, Ayo Dosunmo over him.


I like the Sato comparison. People who don't watch the Bulls don't realize that he can create as much as he can. But, there's something about him (mental?) that doesn't allow him to make the jump to a great player. He's really big, can shoot a bit (when he's hot), and can create a lot of opportunities for his teammates. But he doesn't do it consistently, so that makes him a role player.

Good comparison.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#870 » by NewKnicks » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:46 pm

Could anyone else crack the top five?
Not every team considers the top five as set in stone.

"I still think somebody else is going to come out of the pile and push their way up," one NBA exec said.

Who are the candidates to crack the top five, and why are they in the conversation?

Scottie Barnes

Having recently watched Barnes work out in Santa Barbara, California, he has an outstanding 6-foot-9 frame, a 7-foot-3 wingspan, a 9-foot-1 standing reach and impressive all-around metrics according to sports science company P3. While Suggs is rightfully praised for his intangibles, Barnes is right there with him, and could have a Haliburton-type of impact on a franchise from a personality and competitiveness standpoint. Whether he's going through a workout or watching pickup on the sideline, his spirit is contagious, which has been the case since we first evaluated him as a 15-year-old.


Although he'll never be wired to score the ball, Barnes does just about everything else, often earning supersized Draymond Green and Simmons comparisons, something he embraces. He can bring the ball up and facilitate like a point guard and defend almost all five positions, and he's making strides as a standstill 3-point shooter. All of that combined with his fit in today's NBA could lead some teams to prefer him to Kuminga, and potentially others currently slated ahead of him.

"I feel like I can do it all," Barnes said during a film session. "I'm a winner. I feel like that's the best thing about me, I'm a winner. I'm very unselfish on the floor. I help teams win. That's why they should bet on me. I feel like I'm one of the best prospects in this draft and with me on your team you just instantly get a lot better from that."

My guy Barnes. Been touting him for awhile. He might not be the best fit on the Knicks (we won't have a chance to draft him anyway), but the sky is the limit with this kid. His attitude and intangibles are off the charts. We will be hearing his name a lot next year, no matter who drafts him. Instant upgrade for any roster. And if the shooting comes around, look out.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#871 » by mpharris36 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:51 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Read on Twitter


This tweet does a short breakdown of the article and the archetype of each player in the top 5. It definitely woulda been nice to have a top pick in this draft but I had way more fun watching winning basketball for once in a decade. :lol:



Suggs I feel fits everything thibs would love in a PG. He is a football player too. I think you still would have had to take Cade #1 if we had it. But suggs would be a perfect fit more so then the rest of the top 5.


I feel like Suggs and green would probably be the best fits for us in the top 5. Just for the simple reason of both of them being the most explosive athletes. Don't get me wrong cade is really good but I did read somewhere that he was actually pretty inefficient on his 2 fg%. I'm sure NBA spacing would help out with his self creation but guys are much longer in the NBA. It's nice to have a tough shot maker but the separation a guy like Green can create would be tough to pass up IMO.


Cade and Suggs have better all around games then Green. But no denying Green offense skill set and shot making.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#872 » by NewKnicks » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:51 pm

newyorker4ever wrote:https://theknickswall.com/knicks-should-hold-both-first-round-nba-draft-picks/

With a Julius Randle extension over the horizon and a pursuit of a superstar, the Knicks should keep both of their first-round NBA Draft picks this year.

For the first time since 2016, the New York Knicks aren’t picking in the top 10 of the NBA draft. I’m not quite sure how to feel about that. What I do know is that there’s no need to watch the NBA Draft Lottery, no need to sweat over ping-pong balls, and no need to get frustrated when the Knicks either remain in their original slot or move down. And there’s a bit of bonus compared to other seasons; thanks to the Tim Hardaway Jr. trade to Dallas, the Knicks have two first-round picks: 19th and 21st overall.

After receiving hands and feet from the Atlanta Hawks in the first round of NBA playoffs, the Knicks must now regroup and explore all options to improve their roster. Free agency will be the talk of the town as the Knicks sit back with nearly $50 million in cap space to spend. However, one popular move discussed has been to use both first-round picks to move up in the draft.



Consider me skeptical on the idea. I’m of the mind the Knicks should use their top three draft selections—picks 19, 21, 32—to attempt to improve the roster, both for now and for the future.

And while the class appears star-studded at the top, the drop-off starts about pick five or so, a range the Knicks can’t get into. The last trade involving two non-lottery picks for a lottery pick was the 2017 NBA Draft, where the Portland Trail Blazers moved the 15th and 20th selections to the Sacramento Kings for the 10th overall pick. It’s not an impossible task, but Portland had the first pick just outside the lottery, whereas New York is at 19th overall, quite a bit ways away.

So, let’s talk about why the Knicks should keep both of their first-round picks.


Yes, there is obviously a big drop off after the top 5 (all project as potential All-Stars), that doesn't mean there isn't a ton of talent in the draft. Scottie Barnes and Keon Johnson would be in the running for a top 3 pick in most other drafts. They both have star potential as well.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#873 » by NewKnicks » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:55 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Yeah I was taking the question as outside of guards like Green and Suggs who are guards that can create there own shot (then you have guys like Bouknight and Mann who are really good on the ball. Who was a wing that could create his own shot outside of Cade. Kuminga is probably up there.

Barnes in terms of creating for others...but his scoring game is so raw right now.


This is going to be hot takey a little bit but i'm not 100% sold on Cade's ability to create his own shot at the next level. I think his understanding of the game and reads out of pick and roll are outstanding and he has by far the highest floor in this draft, but as far as self creation is concerned i'm a tad bit worried about him at the next level. Maybe he ends up like Luka where he's so big that it doesn't even matter and he can just shoot over the top or bully his way in but i'm worried about his ability to separate going downhill.

I'm not saying I would take Jalen Green over him ( I wouldn't in any scenario), but I think there's a world where Jalen Green ends up being the better offensive player.


I agree. I would not want to be the guy that passed on Green if he lives up to what I think he can be in the NBA. From a pure NBA potential POV I think Green is the top guy. If I had the 1st overall pick it would be between these 2 guys.


All teams in the top 3 have such a HUGE decision. Who do you take when all 5 have the potential to be franchise changing players? I'd like to think all 5 will pan out, but that's just such a rarity. We might be talking about a Sam Bouie over MJ type situation in a few years. The pressure will be on those GM's to make the correct pick. Myself, I can't really decide who I would take. I have an affinity towards Suggs, but that's just me. I might pass on Cade, and then Cade becomes the next Luka, and then I'd look really stupid. Will be a tough draft for teams in the top 1-3.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#874 » by NewKnicks » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:08 am

in the second round, I'd like to target Terrance Shannon. TT produces good NBA talent, and Shannon has a lot of potential. It's going to take some time with him to get that NBA body, but he's one of those types of players that you want on your roster. Might take 2+ years though before we hear his name. Although he's another lefty, so not sure we want more lefties. Two is enough. :lol:

I also really like Juzang. He's just a damn good basketball player. He's a big shot maker, and was clutch all year. He's the type of player we need on our roster.

My picks for bright NBA futures (late first round/second round): Terrance Shannon, Johnny Juzang, Ayo Dosunmo, Chris Duarte, Greg Brown. Brown will be a HUGE project, but he's got so much talent. I'll throw in John Petty from Alabama as well. He's got some moxie.

If we can come away with 2 of those players, I'd be ecstatic.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#875 » by NewKnicks » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:12 am

mpharris36 wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Marty McFly wrote:from ESPN insider


Don't have an account so I don't know what the rest of the article says. :lol:


I just want this team to draft a wing who's Uber-athletic, can handle and shoot the ball. is that too much to ask for?

(I know its the glamour player archetype I'm just being sarcastic.)


Read on Twitter


This tweet does a short breakdown of the article and the archetype of each player in the top 5. It definitely woulda been nice to have a top pick in this draft but I had way more fun watching winning basketball for once in a decade. :lol:



Suggs I feel fits everything thibs would love in a PG. He is a football player too. I think you still would have had to take Cade #1 if we had it. But suggs would be a perfect fit more so then the rest of the top 5.


I would take Suggs with the #1 pick. The kid is just fantastic. He plays the game the right way, and he's a winner and big shot maker. Good shot for rookie of the year. A lot of people might say I'm crazy for passing up Cade, but I just fell in love with Suggs this year. I watched both of them a lot, and both I think are going to be all-stars. But Suggs is my guy if I'm drafting 1.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#876 » by mpharris36 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:19 am

NewKnicks wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Read on Twitter


This tweet does a short breakdown of the article and the archetype of each player in the top 5. It definitely woulda been nice to have a top pick in this draft but I had way more fun watching winning basketball for once in a decade. :lol:



Suggs I feel fits everything thibs would love in a PG. He is a football player too. I think you still would have had to take Cade #1 if we had it. But suggs would be a perfect fit more so then the rest of the top 5.


I would take Suggs with the #1 pick. The kid is just fantastic. He plays the game the right way, and he's a winner and big shot maker. Good shot for rookie of the year. A lot of people might say I'm crazy for passing up Cade, but I just fell in love with Suggs this year. I watched both of them a lot, and both I think are going to be all-stars. But Suggs is my guy if I'm drafting 1.


Yeah I think you have to take Cade one...Wings that can be the lead ball handler don't grow on trees and they are usually the best players in the league. And he can shoot.

But in terms of being a perfect fit for NY it would be Suggs IMO. He is a winner and leader. Plays both ways. Tough as nails.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#877 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:30 am

NewKnicks wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Read on Twitter


This tweet does a short breakdown of the article and the archetype of each player in the top 5. It definitely woulda been nice to have a top pick in this draft but I had way more fun watching winning basketball for once in a decade. :lol:



Suggs I feel fits everything thibs would love in a PG. He is a football player too. I think you still would have had to take Cade #1 if we had it. But suggs would be a perfect fit more so then the rest of the top 5.


I would take Suggs with the #1 pick. The kid is just fantastic. He plays the game the right way, and he's a winner and big shot maker. Good shot for rookie of the year. A lot of people might say I'm crazy for passing up Cade, but I just fell in love with Suggs this year. I watched both of them a lot, and both I think are going to be all-stars. But Suggs is my guy if I'm drafting 1.



You never take a guard over a wing if the skillsets are similar, and in this case Cade is actually more skilled offensively.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#878 » by NewKnicks » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:04 am

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:

Suggs I feel fits everything thibs would love in a PG. He is a football player too. I think you still would have had to take Cade #1 if we had it. But suggs would be a perfect fit more so then the rest of the top 5.


I would take Suggs with the #1 pick. The kid is just fantastic. He plays the game the right way, and he's a winner and big shot maker. Good shot for rookie of the year. A lot of people might say I'm crazy for passing up Cade, but I just fell in love with Suggs this year. I watched both of them a lot, and both I think are going to be all-stars. But Suggs is my guy if I'm drafting 1.



You never take a guard over a wing if the skillsets are similar, and in this case Cade is actually more skilled offensively.


We will find out. But in the end I think both will be great players, so I don't think you can go wrong with either. And Cade will be the PG on any team that drafts him. You can call him a wing, but he'll be bringing up the ball.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#879 » by Davis18 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:09 am

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:

Suggs I feel fits everything thibs would love in a PG. He is a football player too. I think you still would have had to take Cade #1 if we had it. But suggs would be a perfect fit more so then the rest of the top 5.


I would take Suggs with the #1 pick. The kid is just fantastic. He plays the game the right way, and he's a winner and big shot maker. Good shot for rookie of the year. A lot of people might say I'm crazy for passing up Cade, but I just fell in love with Suggs this year. I watched both of them a lot, and both I think are going to be all-stars. But Suggs is my guy if I'm drafting 1.



You never take a guard over a wing if the skillsets are similar, and in this case Cade is actually more skilled offensively.



Cade & Suggs seems to have highest floor.
Cade definitely has advantage with his size.

Player I like is Green.
His athleticism is best in recent years.
Jumps up with speed & floats in air very Jordan like.
He looks to have highest ceiling.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#880 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:09 am

NewKnicks wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
I would take Suggs with the #1 pick. The kid is just fantastic. He plays the game the right way, and he's a winner and big shot maker. Good shot for rookie of the year. A lot of people might say I'm crazy for passing up Cade, but I just fell in love with Suggs this year. I watched both of them a lot, and both I think are going to be all-stars. But Suggs is my guy if I'm drafting 1.



You never take a guard over a wing if the skillsets are similar, and in this case Cade is actually more skilled offensively.


We will find out. But in the end I think both will be great players, so I don't think you can go wrong with either. And Cade will be the PG on any team that drafts him. You can call him a wing, but he'll be bringing up the ball.



That's even more reason to draft Cade over him :lol: I'm calling Cade a wing because of what he'll most likely be guarding in the NBA, a 6'8" wing with shot creation is the most valuable player type right now, if they can run offense that's an even bigger deal.

I like Suggs, but the ceiling for Cade is just much higher cause of his size.

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