Update: Shams says NY/Utah have began trade discussions for Donovan Mitchell part 3

[TrueWarrior]

Randle fans want his better fan fav backup competition off the team so they can enjoy his spins into oblivion in peace lol.

Draft Obi, Keep Obi!

[El Poochio]

Good that we walked away. Don't let Ainge get everything. He needs us. He can move his demands down. If we rejoin the talks and make the move.

First off: I still think Mitch is a bad fit and we'll have a hard time building a contender around him because we'll:

1. Be capped out
2. With few movable assets
3. And by that same token have limited shots in the draft

So the three ways of building a team - draft, trade, and free agency will be limited. It will limit us to exceptions signings, a pick every other year, and lateral moves - player for player roughly - to improve fit. With some creative moves around the fringes we can start to restock the asset pool for sweeteners in trades or potential draft steals.



That said, one difference between now and the Melo trade is that we're relatively asset rich now. We've got a number of players on the upside of their career and a large cadre of picks to move. Internal development could still be possible after this trade and we'll only have a few positions to fill. Brass needs to figure out what capital we'll need remaining to build the team out to make sure those distant picks - and there will be those - don't bite us in the ass the way they did the Nets. Don't immediately make the next trade. Restock the pool with late firsts and decent 2nds as possible and climb the ladder again. Maybe somebody wants McBride or Sims. Those kind of pieces can go for future capital.

Donnie Walsh has set us up well too before impatience squandered it all

He did but we we're quite there.

I think we're in a place for a move now. I would have waited for a different one though.

You are right problem with this trade is Mitchell is not that franchise altering talent, he wont be in any MVP conversation

DOT got him for Saddiq Bey + a pick lol

[god shammgod]

What does rebuilding through the draft even mean?

Our roster has 7 players that we drafted on it. All the picks we have was from draft maneuvering.

The draft was absolutely the vehicle utilized most to reshape the roster and build out our asset base, even if we didn't tank.

it means drafting your own stars. you know what he's saying.

and since you're secretly working for the knick front office now, is this deal happening ? and don't tell me you're not, you defend them way too vehemently for me to believe otherwise.

p.s. if he doesn't pull this off i want you and leon fired

Yes, because drafting stars is so easy

The one player we tanked for you won't stop sh*tting on, so lets do that for 10 years straight, while simultaneously only playing the young guys, but never actually hoping they get better so they don't disrupt the tank

somehow picks 1,2 & probably 4 in that draft figured it out. maybe, try again then a few more times.

but fine, they didn't. so don't mess this up. figure out how to get it done

and i'll take your non answer as a confirmation. thank you.

[mpharris36]

What does rebuilding through the draft even mean?

Our roster has 7 players that we drafted on it. All the picks we have was from draft maneuvering.

The draft was absolutely the vehicle utilized most to reshape the roster and build out our asset base, even if we didn't tank.

it means drafting your own stars. you know what he's saying.

and since you're secretly working for the knick front office now, is this deal happening ? and don't tell me you're not, you defend them way too vehemently for me to believe otherwise.

p.s. if he doesn't pull this off i want you and leon fired

Yes, because drafting stars is so easy

The one player we tanked for you won't stop sh*tting on, so lets do that for 10 years straight, while simultaneously only playing the young guys, but never actually hoping they get better so they don't disrupt the tank

PS: I kept Mitch around for you, so stop whining

It's a lot easier to do at the top of the draft.

They never had intention of going for the cades/suggs/ivey types and being bad enough to draft them. They treat draft capital as trade capital. Thats my point. They are drafting role players...that doesn't mean they are building through the draft.

They are setting themselves up to make a trade. My point is they aren't all of a sudden going to be bad enough to make those picks good enough to draft a star. The plan was always to trade for one with the combination of young role players and picks.

[Synciere]

you need multiple ball handlers and shot creators to work in the NBA. No team wins with just one guys doing everything.

What's the last team with two starting 6'1" guards who won a championship? played in a final series? Made the playoffs? NOT WORTH IT. Keep our 2023 picks and Obi and Grimes and roll the dice. We might get a Hailburton or D. Mitchell at 10 or so, we're DUE. And even if we don't DM isn't going to get us past the 2nd round.

Have you watched the last two drafts? We don't care about the draft, so we're not getting lucky and getting a star at 10 anytime soon. Plus, with Brunson, we're going to win more games and push our draft pick to at least 13 - 15, where we won't find anything but a limited role player at best. The chances of landing a star at that point in the draft are slim.

Mitchell was drafted 13th I think. You can find All NBA Guys there pretty regularly. My hope I’m getting Brunson and Mitchell is that we’re at bare minimum drafting in the 20s. That’s why we’re fighting to keep some picks right? For depth and to use in future trades.

[ohboy109]

the people thinking keeping obi is a priority are really buying into the last couple of weeks way too much. with the guys we have, you need him to play d and hit the 3 and he was no better at julius last year at those things and he played against backups. he needed that last month just to shoot the same lousy percentage from 3 as julius.

bye obi

Bye obi my ass he better than Randle foh

[NYKat]

I actually would give up Grimes and IQ and keep Obi if it comes down to that. We’ll have Brunson and Mitchell to score from the backcourt plus RJ. I’m happy with Grimes, but I’d miss Obi far more

I disagree, Grimes as a floor spacer and our best wing defender is far more vital to our team than Obi is, Randle makes Obi expendable…

Grimes is absolutely crucial to our team success, IMO

[GONYK]

It’ll be a tough climb for the Knicks whether they do or don’t make the trade. They are probably set up better to make the deal, consolidate a bunch of assets and get a legit top 20, #1 option type player. They have been building for that moment. I would have rather seen them rebuild thru the draft, but that ship has sailed and they have been ignoring that route for 20+ years so it isn’t happening

The Knicks did rebuild through the draft. That's why we're in position to make this trade.

It was more of a win immediately plan with a lot in mediocre veteran players or free agents. They only bottomed out for 1 year which wasn’t enough. They did do a better job of drafting and getting some future picks, but the purpose was to make a move for a star.

I'm going to ask for a straight yes or no: Are the Knicks in position today to trade for a star because of the draft?

God knows I wish IQ, Obi and Grimes played more and Randle, Burks and Fournier played less, but it is a bit overblown that the Knicks don't care about their kids or value the draft.

Thibs doesn't care about the kids, and that is its own issue, but this FO has built a young core that everyone wants to see more of and a warchest of picks.

Even if the preference for some is to run this franchise like the Thunder, the Knicks used the draft in prominent, but strategically different way.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

It didn’t turn out fine because they didn’t win a championship. Last year was a fluke season for them and they lost. That’s the logic we would apply to our team so why not apply it to Boston? They aren’t that good and they aren’t winning a championship it’s a treadmill team and they should blow it up to tank

No, it turned out fine, they're a championship contender and have been a staple in the Eastern conference finals since 2018. The funny part is Mitchell is the same age as Brown and older than Tatum, you all will be saying "Well, maybe we can get____ in free agecy" after this trade because you all know it wont be enough, the same old song.

Well it seems this is shifting of the goalposts. Not by you but the sentiment in general. Boston has a borderline contender with a flukey run to the finals and that’s “fine” but with Donovan, he sucks because he didn’t make it through the murders row of the west because Gobert got exposed and if the Knicks build a contender it’s meaningless unless we win the championship every year. If the Donovan Knicks lose in the ECF everyone would crap on us and say exactly what I said above. Treadmill, blow it up, Donovan ain’t good enough, etc. Tatum looked like playoff Randle in the finals

Boston had been to 4 of the last 5 eastern conference finals with Brown and Tatum being 19 and 20 at the start of it, breaking through to the finals is a fluke though

Who said Donovan sucks? He's a really good player, he's not worth trading your future for. Also, lets be real, you wanted to re-sign Randle, I wouldn't really trust your takes on team building.

[El Poochio]

Good that we walked away. Don't let Ainge get everything. He needs us. He can move his demands down. If we rejoin the talks and make the move.

First off: I still think Mitch is a bad fit and we'll have a hard time building a contender around him because we'll:

1. Be capped out
2. With few movable assets
3. And by that same token have limited shots in the draft

So the three ways of building a team - draft, trade, and free agency will be limited. It will limit us to exceptions signings, a pick every other year, and lateral moves - player for player roughly - to improve fit. With some creative moves around the fringes we can start to restock the asset pool for sweeteners in trades or potential draft steals.



That said, one difference between now and the Melo trade is that we're relatively asset rich now. We've got a number of players on the upside of their career and a large cadre of picks to move. Internal development could still be possible after this trade and we'll only have a few positions to fill. Brass needs to figure out what capital we'll need remaining to build the team out to make sure those distant picks - and there will be those - don't bite us in the ass the way they did the Nets. Don't immediately make the next trade. Restock the pool with late firsts and decent 2nds as possible and climb the ladder again. Maybe somebody wants McBride or Sims. Those kind of pieces can go for future capital.

Donnie Walsh has set us up well too before impatience squandered it all

No amount of patience would've turned Stoudemire, Gallinari, Chandler, Fields and Mozgov into a good team.

Those who actually stayed in the league spent more time in the infirmary, and never played at an All-Star level post-injury.

If not for the Melo deal, we would've ended up with Deron Williams. Read the stories. It would've been a disaster here.

Process was correct though, if process is correct you will get there eventually, what Knicks do is never learning from their own mistakes and repeating same shİt over and over again

[KnicksNext]

Not sure about the fans though, at least on social media a decent portion of the fans don't seem to even want to trade at the asking price of Ainge.

The same folks will be tweeting "50-burger" in no time.

for as long as i have been a member of this board, knick fans always think the asking price is too high and overvalue the young kids we have. on every deal ever. it's always the same. it's always too much. you can see it happening right now, the summer league threads are ridiculous. y'all the same people who thought landry fields would be special. jesus.

Hahaha. So true. All of it. I don't want to give up Obi! McBride! Grimes! IQ! They're future Donovan Mitchells! If any of them were so damn good we could trade them and not include any picks.

This is also a big reason why we're LOL Knicks too. Some of our fans embarrassing the rest of us by going on the GB and other places claiming this or that about our young players. NBA has some smart fans out there, and fans from other teams laugh at us. They know these guys are not future stars.

The problem comes from us drafting so poorly over the years that when we finally add a few decent players in drafts we severely overrate them. We don't know what 'future stars' actually look like.

[3toheadmelo]

:cry:

the people thinking keeping obi is a priority are really buying into the last couple of weeks way too much. with the guys we have, you need him to play d and hit the 3 and he was no better at julius last year at those things and he played against backups. he needed that last month just to shoot the same lousy percentage from 3 as julius.

bye obi

Bye obi my ass he better than Randle foh

[DowNY]

Read on Twitter

?s=20&t=-Iv3S1c5umIps5M2aRz2oQ

[knickstape21]

Rank these guys in order from most to least valuable:

Grimes
Quickley
Toppin
Reddish
Jokubaitis
McBride

[Synciere]

Randle fans want his better fan fav backup off the team so they can enjoy his spins into oblivion in peace lol.

Draft Obi, Keep Obi!

I’m resigned on the picks; we’re going to give up the house on those. That said, keeping RJ and Obi is important enough to walk away imo. Basically it’s picks or youth, but certainly not both. And since we won’t be able to keep the picks, we should keep whomever we deem our best youth, which to me is Obi and RJ.

[Richard4444]

* right about Randle and the fake season - He can recover
* right about RJ and his fake not even league average season He is too young. He will get better
* right about RJ and his agent statwhoring to try to get 20 by putting the chuck meter to 10 then sitting out games It does not matter
* right about not stretching Noah for no reason We needed to waive him. I don't know if we can stretch some time after have waived him
* right about Cam trade, and that he'd never play here and that it was a waste of a 1st rounder He might stick with the team and get minutes to prove his value
* right about Thibs being an orc It does not matter
* right about Leon Rose being one of the worst 3 GMs in the league, 5 negative value contracts in one off season We got rid of 3 of them. Evan is the next.
* right about not extending Randle for no reason We should not have extended him. But he can improve
* right about re-signing Mitch
* right about Sam Rose just being a fat young Leon still piping money from Dolan into CAA

* wrong about them snap extending RJ for the max (starphucking with mitchell the likely cause)
* wrong about them making the pick this year (didn't see just punting on a draft when your roster doesn't have a top 50 player on it)

Stretching is waiving and dividing the cap hit over 2 x remaining years + 1. Learn NBA cap kindergarten edition and then come back to give your input.

You can not waive a player and stretch his salary at a later moment. You have to stretch on the following day of waiving.

Can a team choose to stretch a waived player’s contract retroactively? https://www.slamonline.com/nba/cba-explained-the-stretch-provision/
No. Teams must inform the league of their intent to stretch a waived player within one business day of the formal termination.

[spree2kawhi]

I actually would give up Grimes and IQ and keep Obi if it comes down to that. We’ll have Brunson and Mitchell to score from the backcourt plus RJ. I’m happy with Grimes, but I’d miss Obi far more

I disagree, Grimes as a floor spacer and our best wing defender is far more vital to our team than Obi is, Randle makes Obi expendable…

Grimes is absolutely crucial to our team success, IMO

This player averaged 6.1 ppg on .404 FG% …

[Clyde_Style]

I actually would give up Grimes and IQ and keep Obi if it comes down to that. We’ll have Brunson and Mitchell to score from the backcourt plus RJ. I’m happy with Grimes, but I’d miss Obi far more

I disagree, Grimes as a floor spacer and our best wing defender is far more vital to our team than Obi is, Randle makes Obi expendable…

Grimes is absolutely crucial to our team success, IMO

I love Grimes. They are so fundamentally different that what they contribute is hard to compare.

But that is largely irrelevant. If a trade happens, I expect Grimes to be the centerpiece among our players, not a throw-in

I don’t expect him to be here if DM becomes a Knick. I’d love it if he stays though

[TrueWarrior]

I actually would give up Grimes and IQ and keep Obi if it comes down to that. We’ll have Brunson and Mitchell to score from the backcourt plus RJ. I’m happy with Grimes, but I’d miss Obi far more

I disagree, Grimes as a floor spacer and our best wing defender is far more vital to our team than Obi is, Randle makes Obi expendable…

Grimes is absolutely crucial to our team success, IMO

Where does Grimes fit tho? Hed be undersized at SF. Hes a pure SG so he wouldnt really be able to play with Brunson and Mitchell at the same time unless we wanna go real small. Then where would that leave RJ? PF?

Im just trying to picture a future lineup, and Randle seems the most expendable so thats where Obi comes in.

Id want to keep Grimes and Obi ideally tho, but doubt we can do that unless we give up more picks.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Good that we walked away. Don't let Ainge get everything. He needs us. He can move his demands down. If we rejoin the talks and make the move.

First off: I still think Mitch is a bad fit and we'll have a hard time building a contender around him because we'll:

1. Be capped out
2. With few movable assets
3. And by that same token have limited shots in the draft

So the three ways of building a team - draft, trade, and free agency will be limited. It will limit us to exceptions signings, a pick every other year, and lateral moves - player for player roughly - to improve fit. With some creative moves around the fringes we can start to restock the asset pool for sweeteners in trades or potential draft steals.



That said, one difference between now and the Melo trade is that we're relatively asset rich now. We've got a number of players on the upside of their career and a large cadre of picks to move. Internal development could still be possible after this trade and we'll only have a few positions to fill. Brass needs to figure out what capital we'll need remaining to build the team out to make sure those distant picks - and there will be those - don't bite us in the ass the way they did the Nets. Don't immediately make the next trade. Restock the pool with late firsts and decent 2nds as possible and climb the ladder again. Maybe somebody wants McBride or Sims. Those kind of pieces can go for future capital.

Donnie Walsh has set us up well too before impatience squandered it all

No amount of patience would've turned Stoudemire, Gallinari, Chandler, Fields and Mozgov into a good team.

Those who actually stayed in the league spent more time in the infirmary, and never played at an All-Star level post-injury.

If not for the Melo deal, we would've ended up with Deron Williams. Read the stories. It would've been a disaster here.

Deron Williams led the number 1 offense in the league though, people here would be putting together the same kind of absurd packages for him at 26 as they are for Mitchell right now.