Tom Thibodeau fired pt 2

[Clyde_Style]

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Knicks reached out to the Instead Institute.

Want another coach INSTEAD of Thibs.

at least it wasn't the Incel Institute

[GettinitDone]

we had runs of 7/8 tops for the most part...so for example when mitch got going then we didnt see Precious...what we saw was Cam, Deuce, Hart, Mitch, Kat, Brunson, Mikal, OG...and Cam probably had 5 minutes
I would look but I'm over it JVG.

If you look at both teams rosters- I'm looking at how many of those guys can the coach count on for productive minutes:
https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401766123
Base on the way Thibs handled our players. There were 8 max...

ok. so you're not really talking about the formal rotations. you're talking about the trusted players. yeah, i have no contest for that. it was pretty clear.

and to that point, i'd agree that we have more than 8 players who could be trusted. and the thibs approach of only trusting them when he has to is part of why he's gone.

I think it became more and more apparent that he would stick to 7,5 guys overall. Payne felt like he would sometimes play him 8 minutes just to be able to say: "I'm playing an 8 man rotation, not 7." ...basically as a means to shut the discussion. It is also a bit sad that no one in the organization could talk some sense into him. I picture Bridges' made that last ditch effort which ultimately wasn't fruitful. That's what that other article described as Thibs' non-negotiable, stubborn personality. My way or the highway.

Precious, Shamet, Wright are certainly no world beaters but as a 8th, 9th and 10th man? Playing 10-15 minutes? Come on now.
Not only that but you have to figure in the opportunity cost of playing the starters so heavily THROUGHOUT the entire season. I mean you don't need to be Einstein to understand that that does not bode well late in the season. For anyone doubting that---just take a look at the careers of Parker, Ginobili and Duncan in San Antonio and how many minutes they played...you will be surprised. Like Parker and Ginobili even during their primes averaged barely around 30minutes.

Exactly he played the Koleks the Pacs the Huks the last 1:12 mins or >1 min of ONCE IN A BLUEMOON games so he could say he played 9-10 guys in "some" games.

His basketball IQ and smarts are supposed to be so legendary that it seemed even taboo to talk bad about, or much less fire him who's repeatedly left 3 point shooters and the paint wide open. Same problems that persisted for not only months but years.

Thibs supporters believed the Knicks should run it back and somehow these problems would resolve on it's own and we'd win the title with him next season... I truly found both Thibs and his supporters to be pitiful in this regard.

ah. so close. -JVG

[Billy Goat]

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What was the culture like under Fizdale?

[Knicksfan1992]

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Of course Tommy Beer adds that note in there for his agenda even after he got what he wanted .

If you read the whole article the dude explains why hiring from outside an organization can also be detrimental and even provides a real life example.

It was a well balanced article. Good read.

[thebuzzardman]

ok. so you're not really talking about the formal rotations. you're talking about the trusted players. yeah, i have no contest for that. it was pretty clear.

and to that point, i'd agree that we have more than 8 players who could be trusted. and the thibs approach of only trusting them when he has to is part of why he's gone.

I think it became more and more apparent that he would stick to 7,5 guys overall. Payne felt like he would sometimes play him 8 minutes just to be able to say: "I'm playing an 8 man rotation, not 7." ...basically as a means to shut the discussion. It is also a bit sad that no one in the organization could talk some sense into him. I picture Bridges' made that last ditch effort which ultimately wasn't fruitful. That's what that other article described as Thibs' non-negotiable, stubborn personality. My way or the highway.

Precious, Shamet, Wright are certainly no world beaters but as a 8th, 9th and 10th man? Playing 10-15 minutes? Come on now.
Not only that but you have to figure in the opportunity cost of playing the starters so heavily THROUGHOUT the entire season. I mean you don't need to be Einstein to understand that that does not bode well late in the season. For anyone doubting that---just take a look at the careers of Parker, Ginobili and Duncan in San Antonio and how many minutes they played...you will be surprised. Like Parker and Ginobili even during their primes averaged barely around 30minutes.

Exactly he played the Koleks the Pacs the Huks the last 1:12 mins or >1 min of ONCE IN A BLUEMOON games so he could say he played 9-10 guys in "some" games.

His basketball IQ and smarts are supposed to be so legendary that it seemed even taboo to talk bad about, or much less fire him who's repeatedly left 3 point shooters and the paint wide open. Same problems that persisted for not only months but years.

Thibs supporters believed the Knicks should run it back and somehow these problems would resolve on it's own and we'd win the title with him next season... I truly found both Thibs and his supporters to be pitiful in this regard.

ah. so close. -JVG

[Wildcat]

I wonder if him keeping the starters in during Game 6 against Boston after they waived the white flag rubbed the brass the wrong way.

[Capn'O]

The more that comes out the more it seems like management severed ties before the working relationship become completely untenable for the same reasons he flamed out elsewhere. Especially given who we're tied to as a replacement, this feels more like a "we can't work with you anymore" than an indictment on his coaching. Once that is established there's usually no going back as Thibs became a public issue in both of his previous stops. We got out front of the ensuing tire fire.

I wonder if him keeping the starters in during Game 6 against Boston after they waived the white flag rubbed the brass the wrong way.

My guess is absolutely but in the straw breaking the camel's back sort of way.

[MrDollarBills]

but no one has an 11-man rotation. let alone as a minimum baseline. why would we expect that much as a minimum baseline for thibs?

10+situational is the max you're going to see in the most modern and creative of rotations.

not suggesting it shouldn't be the case. just saying it isn't.

Yeah true, 8 to 9 a night is ideal. You crack it open to 10-11 on back to backs.

The hope is we get Year 2 Kolek and Hukporti as rotational back ups and someone that can back up either OG or Mikal consistently.

It sucks that Shamet and Wright are probably gone.

i mean, i'm good with 9-10 on the regular if it's the right guys. never was averse to that. we get a coach who can make it work, go for it.

i want shamet back. ideal cheap wing. unless he played himself into more money somehow, i don't see why we wouldn't be looking to bring him back for the same scale. hungry and home.

shoot. delon is tail end of career but crafty all around and talented defensively. i think of both these guys as more veteran versions of the way daignault uses the wallaces and wigginses of the world. (though they shoot much better than wright. we just can't have expectations of him being a true 3 and d.)

and unless they get packaged, next coach will probably play kolek and hukporti. i imagine even thibs was there (especially if we consolidated talent even more).

So areas of need based on what we have under contract:

-Veteran PG (cheap)

- Back up SG (Shamet returns?)

-Back up PF

-Bench wing

Am i missing anything?

I am of the belief that who we have under contract will be here next season.

[MrDollarBills]

The more that comes out the more it seems like management severed ties before the working relationship become completely untenable for the same reasons he flamed out elsewhere. Especially given who we're tied to as a replacement, this feels more like a "we can't work with you anymore" than an indictment on his coaching. Once that is established there's usually no going back as Thibs became a public issue in both of his previous stops. We got out front of the ensuing tire fire.

I wonder if him keeping the starters in during Game 6 against Boston after they waived the white flag rubbed the brass the wrong way.

My guess is absolutely but in the straw breaking the camel's back sort of way.

Alan Hahn pretty much said that they wanted to end this now instead of kicking the tires and having to fire Tom mid season, which would be disastrous.

I hate to keep going back to Game 6 versus Boston, but something wasn't right man. The look on Jalen's face when he was telling Tom to take everyone out spoke a thousand words.

I 100%, believe that Jalen knew well before we lost that Tom was done. That's why he lashed out at that reporter for asking that question. That was the first time I've ever seen him lose his composure like that. He knew, and it probably hurt like hell.

This situation sucks but I think all parties involved moved forward for the greater good of the team

[KnixinSix]

Wow this Pacers analyst NAILS some stuff here ....

Read on Twitter

[Capn'O]

The more that comes out the more it seems like management severed ties before the working relationship become completely untenable for the same reasons he flamed out elsewhere. Especially given who we're tied to as a replacement, this feels more like a "we can't work with you anymore" than an indictment on his coaching. Once that is established there's usually no going back as Thibs became a public issue in both of his previous stops. We got out front of the ensuing tire fire.

I wonder if him keeping the starters in during Game 6 against Boston after they waived the white flag rubbed the brass the wrong way.

My guess is absolutely but in the straw breaking the camel's back sort of way.

Alan Hahn pretty much said that they wanted to end this now instead of kicking the tires and having to fire Tom mid season, which would be disastrous.

I hate to keep going back to Game 6 versus Boston, but something wasn't right man. The look on Jalen's face when he was telling Tom to take everyone out spoke a thousand words.

I 100%, believe that Jalen knew well before we lost that Tom was done. That's why he lashed out at that reporter for asking that question. That was the first time I've ever seen him lose his composure like that. He knew, and it probably hurt like hell.

This situation sucks but I think all parties involved moved forward for the greater good of the team

Just a few short steps away from this:

Watch on YouTube

Mikal in the Butler role. KAT as... KAT

[Capn'O]

Wow this Pacers analyst NAILS some stuff here ....

Read on Twitter

Pacers fans were posting her on the GB. She's really solid.

[mpharris36]

Wow this Pacers analyst NAILS some stuff here ....

Read on Twitter

Pacers fans were posting her on the GB. She's really solid.

EXPOSE THIBS!

[Fury]

Wow this Pacers analyst NAILS some stuff here ....

Read on Twitter

Pacers fans were posting her on the GB. She's really solid.

She's one of the best analysts around.

[Wildcat]

The more that comes out the more it seems like management severed ties before the working relationship become completely untenable for the same reasons he flamed out elsewhere. Especially given who we're tied to as a replacement, this feels more like a "we can't work with you anymore" than an indictment on his coaching. Once that is established there's usually no going back as Thibs became a public issue in both of his previous stops. We got out front of the ensuing tire fire.

I wonder if him keeping the starters in during Game 6 against Boston after they waived the white flag rubbed the brass the wrong way.

My guess is absolutely but in the straw breaking the camel's back sort of way.

Alan Hahn pretty much said that they wanted to end this now instead of kicking the tires and having to fire Tom mid season, which would be disastrous.

I hate to keep going back to Game 6 versus Boston, but something wasn't right man. The look on Jalen's face when he was telling Tom to take everyone out spoke a thousand words.

I 100%, believe that Jalen knew well before we lost that Tom was done. That's why he lashed out at that reporter for asking that question. That was the first time I've ever seen him lose his composure like that. He knew, and it probably hurt like hell.

This situation sucks but I think all parties involved moved forward for the greater good of the team

Yeah, listen, that Game 6 ish was highly unusual. Like, he shot down Rick about 3 or 4 times. Sorry, man, but that's embarrassing, and hard to justify.

I keep saying this and I'm not even joking about it. Bryant was like the Thibs whisperer last season. I really, really liked last year's Thibs. This year, I don't know, man. Maybe he hated that Rick was promoted to assistant or something? Maybe Rick has more pull than we think? Kind of contextualizes Donte's blow up at Rick. Or I'm just looking at smoke and mirrors.

[GONYK]

Wow this Pacers analyst NAILS some stuff here ....

Read on Twitter

Exactly this
I asked all year to just try Mitch and deuce in the starting lineup
With KAT and hart off the bench
If you make the argument you don’t trade for KAT to come off the bench, well okc just signed Ihart to a massive contract and he hasn’t started a game for them during the first two finals games. It’s about adjustments, and Thibs never tried anything new

Thibs would have been fired on opening night if he suggested that and rightfully so.

He definitely should have tried Deuce with the starters though.

[spree8]

Wow this Pacers analyst NAILS some stuff here ....

Read on Twitter

Exactly this
I asked all year to just try Mitch and deuce in the starting lineup
With KAT and hart off the bench
If you make the argument you don’t trade for KAT to come off the bench, well okc just signed Ihart to a massive contract and he hasn’t started a game for them during the first two finals games. It’s about adjustments, and Thibs never tried anything new

I wanted Deuce starting for Hart all season, but KAT off the bench isn’t the same as iHart. KAT is a perennial All-Star and All-NBA player. Bringing him off the bench would’ve caused more problems than it helped.

[mpharris36]

Wow this Pacers analyst NAILS some stuff here ....

Read on Twitter

Exactly this
I asked all year to just try Mitch and deuce in the starting lineup
With KAT and hart off the bench
If you make the argument you don’t trade for KAT to come off the bench, well okc just signed Ihart to a massive contract and he hasn’t started a game for them during the first two finals games. It’s about adjustments, and Thibs never tried anything new

Thibs would have been fired on opening night if he suggested that and rightfully so.

He definitely should have tried Deuce with the starters though.

Yeah you aren't bench KAT that is craziness.

But you can certainly experiment with lineups which Thibs simply doesn't do in the regular season. Not much run with the two big lineup, basically no run with Deuce with the starters. Basically playing the same few bench players and not expanding it unless an injury. All these things impact winning in the playoffs. Delon Wright and then Shamet are scrambled asked to play and they just haven't run many minutes with the guys they are playing with.

Basically switching the least amount in the regular season and then asking the team to do more switching in the playoffs worked ok with not an elite passing team like BOS...but Indy picked us apart and confused us. That is also on the coach for not having the guys comfortable with different defensive coverages.

Yes I'm sure KAT lead to some confusion with his doing what he wants to do sometimes...but its ultimately on the coach for the team not looking confused...and we seemed confused a lot.

Circling back to the impact a new coach will have on the roster...these are the things I hope they improve from Thibs faults.

[Jeff Van Gully]

The more that comes out the more it seems like management severed ties before the working relationship become completely untenable for the same reasons he flamed out elsewhere. Especially given who we're tied to as a replacement, this feels more like a "we can't work with you anymore" than an indictment on his coaching. Once that is established there's usually no going back as Thibs became a public issue in both of his previous stops. We got out front of the ensuing tire fire.



My guess is absolutely but in the straw breaking the camel's back sort of way.

Alan Hahn pretty much said that they wanted to end this now instead of kicking the tires and having to fire Tom mid season, which would be disastrous.

I hate to keep going back to Game 6 versus Boston, but something wasn't right man. The look on Jalen's face when he was telling Tom to take everyone out spoke a thousand words.

I 100%, believe that Jalen knew well before we lost that Tom was done. That's why he lashed out at that reporter for asking that question. That was the first time I've ever seen him lose his composure like that. He knew, and it probably hurt like hell.

This situation sucks but I think all parties involved moved forward for the greater good of the team

Yeah, listen, that Game 6 ish was highly unusual. Like, he shot down Rick about 3 or 4 times. Sorry, man, but that's embarrassing, and hard to justify.

I keep saying this and I'm not even joking about it. Bryant was like the Thibs whisperer last season. I really, really liked last year's Thibs. This year, I don't know, man. Maybe he hated that Rick was promoted to assistant or something? Maybe Rick has more pull than we think? Kind of contextualizes Donte's blow up at Rick. Or I'm just looking at smoke and mirrors.

it's all especially bizarre to me when juxtaposed against the end of ECF G1 where thibs then didn't ride the group that had the game in hand.

like, snoop on the wire. **** the rotation, old man.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Alan Hahn pretty much said that they wanted to end this now instead of kicking the tires and having to fire Tom mid season, which would be disastrous.

I hate to keep going back to Game 6 versus Boston, but something wasn't right man. The look on Jalen's face when he was telling Tom to take everyone out spoke a thousand words.

I 100%, believe that Jalen knew well before we lost that Tom was done. That's why he lashed out at that reporter for asking that question. That was the first time I've ever seen him lose his composure like that. He knew, and it probably hurt like hell.

This situation sucks but I think all parties involved moved forward for the greater good of the team

Yeah, listen, that Game 6 ish was highly unusual. Like, he shot down Rick about 3 or 4 times. Sorry, man, but that's embarrassing, and hard to justify.

I keep saying this and I'm not even joking about it. Bryant was like the Thibs whisperer last season. I really, really liked last year's Thibs. This year, I don't know, man. Maybe he hated that Rick was promoted to assistant or something? Maybe Rick has more pull than we think? Kind of contextualizes Donte's blow up at Rick. Or I'm just looking at smoke and mirrors.

it's all especially bizarre to me when juxtaposed against the end of ECF G1 where thibs then didn't ride the group that had the game in hand.

like, snoop on the wire. **** the rotation, old man.

The playoffs showed the flaws in Thibslam, and the righteous crusaders against its spread have secured our seat in the Kingdom of the Finals.