Game Thread: Bucks vs Knicks @ Carmelo's Home. 7:30PM MSG

[Knicks_Fan2]

every team we play that sees amare will put him in endless P&Rs. Only so much you can do to cover that up.

[Knicks_Fan2]

How am I insane? Amare played some of the best basketball of his life early in his Knicks tenure. When Melo got here he regressed greatly.

I think Amare is a shell of his former self now, but in 2010? He was a top 3 PF in the league and close to a top 10 player in the league.

I was a bit harsh, but I don't think he was on Melo's level at any point that year.

I definitely do. The Knicks also were a much better team before Melo got here. They actually moved the ball and ran the P n R very nicely. Once Melo got here everything went up in flames.

Not to say Melo isn't great, because he is, but our team was absolutely gutted. If it wasn't for Billups, we might've missed the playoffs LOL

What a fun myth. Go look at the 10 games prior to the Melo trade and, oh by the way, Amare was already breaking down by then.

[berkkobe7]

Melo with 6 assists is the only thing makes me happy.


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[aq_ua]

I still don't know what people see in Cole. The guy comes in and throws his body around then goes back to bench. Yes he has some stretches where he rebounds the ball well and defends but he's still slower than molasses and has no offensive repertoire to speak of. Can he be effective for 5 min stretches? Possibly but it sounds like people want to give him 20 minutes a game.

There's two ways to play defense - protect the perimeter and prevent penetration, or funnel all the penetration to a central rim protector. We can't seem to do the former, so the only other option is the later. Aldrich is the next best thing to Daly we have to act as that rim protector. The other benefits; rebounding, setting picks, scoring from time to time; is actually just gravy.

[Clyde Frazier]

I was a bit harsh, but I don't think he was on Melo's level at any point that year.

I definitely do. The Knicks also were a much better team before Melo got here. They actually moved the ball and ran the P n R very nicely. Once Melo got here everything went up in flames.

Not to say Melo isn't great, because he is, but our team was absolutely gutted. If it wasn't for Billups, we might've missed the playoffs LOL

What a fun myth. Go look at the 10 games prior to the Melo trade and, oh by the way, Amare was already breaking down by then.

I don't agree with the poster you're responding to, but amare was still playing just fine in the 10 games prior to the trade...

~26.7 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 3 APG, .9 SPG, 1.9 BPG, 55% FG, 84% FT, 61% TS, 114/111 OFF/DEF RTG

[stuporman]

I don't know what to think about Fish's rotation in the preseason.... part of me thinks it's troubling who he gives minutes to and in the groupings and part of me thinks it means absolutely nothing.

I guess it's really only a matter of waiting until the season starts and see how it all shakes out.

[aq_ua]

I don't know what to think about Fish's rotation in the preseason.... part of me thinks it's troubling who he gives minutes to and in the groupings and part of me thinks it means absolutely nothing.

I guess it's really only a matter of waiting until the season starts and see how it all shakes out.

I think Fisher has more or less settled on a starting lineup but he's giving every combination a chance to see what fits best together. This might be a case of a rotation not crystallizing until well into December. The injury to Calderon certainly didn't help today, but it did let Fisher play around with Larkin more than usual.

I think as it stands we have a pretty poor fitting second unit. No defenders and all very streaky shooters. There are going to be games where JR and Hardaway go off and make us look great. Most nights, the starting line up (i.e. Melo) is going to have to carry us.

Nothing surprising I suppose, just an increasing affirmation of some of the concerns from the offseason.

[K_ick_God]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/sp ... .html?_r=0

[Dr. Detfink]

Wasn't a bad game. Thought the 4th was when the Knicks were tired and stopped playing the triangle. Tim Hardaway Jr looks ready. Calderon/Pablo or Larkin back court is intriguing. JR Smith plays his own system.

Cant be tired when they havent played in over 4 days and no travel since they were at home.

Not sure what Timmy is ready for...he gives up way more than he'll ever score. Totally agree on JR.

Tired from too much time off. They didn't look in any kind of shape for the regular season. Of course going by the performance of that 4th quarter.

Hardaway Jr is a career bench guy but he's ready for his role to come off the bench and light up the opposition.

Sadly I do not see any of the Knicks' youth as role players. So far.

[JSmooth93]

He played Kobe 48 minutes a lot of games toward the end of the season to clinch that #8 spot

Kobe played himself 48 minutes lol

[LifeLongKNICK]

Stat/Bargs
Acy/Smith
Melo/THJ
Shump/JR
Jose/Prigs

Dalembert/Smith
Stoudemire/Acy
Melo/JR
Calderon/Prigs
Shumpert/THJr

STAT needs to play Center or he needs to be benched. It's one or the other.

great idea dude. ...........

[BRIGGS]

Acxy cannot hit the 12 footer and hes' not a good enough rebounder to warrant the position. Wear can rebound just as well yet can hit that mid range better ballhandler passer etc...

Shumpert does not balance off unit 1 well. he is grossly inconsistent. My pick would be JR to start

Hardaway to 6th man

Out of line up
Early Larkin Acy

Unit 1

C-Dalembart
F Wear
F Carmelo
G Smith
G Calderon

Unit 2
C Amare
F Smith
F Shumpert
G Hardaway
G Priggs

Need to find a pro third PG. Larkin to me is D league right now. If Calderon gets hurt--we dont want larkin playing big minutes.

[GardenFaith]

I don't care if it's preseason or not we should not be giving up 120 points on our home court.

Everyone talks about its going to take 20 games or so to get used to the offense which I also think is true but defence is DEFENCE your either playing it or your not.

[BodyCount]

look at the bright side. We might be tanking this season if we want it or not. And if we play like this, I'm ok with it... as long as they go down like a team.

[mamadontcry]

Just watched the game:

- keep Travis Wear. If you ask me he is the first substitute for Melo. Knows wear to position himself in the triangle, is able to read the game, is not afraid, doesn't rush, has a silky mid j and is athletic enough. A poor Parsons lite in the making.

- Pablo should be the back up PG.

- Acy can not defend bigger bodies at the 4. He is better suited as a hustle player from the bench against weaker players.

- THJ has a ton of personality. He will improve on D, great great draft pick at n.24

- Melo great in the triangle till had legs

- Liked Fisher composure while talking to Larkin. The kid needs to slow down his game.

[BodyCount]

I don't know from where the idea triangle is well fitted for SF is coming from, but I always had a feeling it's best fitted for SG. I might be wrong but when I was watching bulls under Jackson, Pippen didn't have it so easy as Michael did. For Pippen triangle produced an open 3pt shots (1-2 a game) (one of the actions was a pass from one side of sideline of 3pt line to him on other), he got 1 or 2 post up plays a game, 1 cut a game, the rest he scored in counter attack more or less.

On the other hand Chicago and Lakers triangle seemed to benefit SG's, they get bunch of screens and mid range jumpers and other stuff. So call me crazy (which I don't doubt you will lol) but maybe we should let JR shoot more He's the only one that plays some D (not much but he still plays it better then hardaway) and can hit those mid range jumpers.

I would also like us to explore the option to trade for Michael Carter-Williams, I think this would get a bit easier if our PG was bigger. And 76's are trading him.

If we get melo to score 20 a game, 6 rebounds, 5-6 assists, jr with 25 a game 4-6 assists, Carter williams adding 12-14, 6 assists, Acy with 4-6 ppg, and Dalembert let's say 8-10 with bench scoring 20-30, it just might be enough.

[berkkobe7]

I don't know from where the idea triangle is well fitted for SF is coming from, but I always had a feeling it's best fitted for SG. I might be wrong but when I was watching bulls under Jackson, Pippen didn't have it so easy as Michael did. For Pippen triangle produced an open 3pt shots (1-2 a game) (one of the actions was a pass from one side of sideline of 3pt line to him on other), he got 1 or 2 post up plays a game, 1 cut a game, the rest he scored in counter attack more or less.

On the other hand Chicago and Lakers triangle seemed to benefit SG's, they get bunch of screens and mid range jumpers and other stuff. So call me crazy (which I don't doubt you will lol) but maybe we should let JR shoot more He's the only one that plays some D (not much but he still plays it better then hardaway) and can hit those mid range jumpers.

I would also like us to explore the option to trade for Michael Carter-Williams, I think this would get a bit easier if our PG was bigger. And 76's are trading him.

If we get melo to score 20 a game, 6 rebounds, 5-6 assists, jr with 25 a game 4-6 assists, Carter williams adding 12-14, 6 assists, Acy with 4-6 ppg, and Dalembert let's say 8-10 with bench scoring 20-30, it just might be enough.

Jr Smith can score 25 while shoot 35


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[mpharris36]

Melo - "I'm gonna score less in the triangle'

Takes 22 shots in next preseason game.

[mpharris36]

Just watched the game:

- keep Travis Wear. If you ask me he is the first substitute for Melo. Knows wear to position himself in the triangle, is able to read the game, is not afraid, doesn't rush, has a silky mid j and is athletic enough. A poor Parsons lite in the making.

- Pablo should be the back up PG.

- Acy can not defend bigger bodies at the 4. He is better suited as a hustle player from the bench against weaker players.

- THJ has a ton of personality. He will improve on D, great great draft pick at n.24

- Melo great in the triangle till had legs

- Liked Fisher composure while talking to Larkin. The kid needs to slow down his game.

THjr has a great offensive game but I'm not sure where you are thinking he will improve on his defense. He has been just as atrocious this year as he was last year. It does matter if the dude can light it up he gives up more on defense then he provides on offense. OJ Mayo was lighting him up and he refused to close out on him on at least 3 or 4 different 3's.

[mpharris36]

every team we play that sees amare will put him in endless P&Rs. Only so much you can do to cover that up.

100% this. If anyone who knew basketball watching knows how you can't play him at center because of two things.

P&R role defense, rim protection/help defense, and defensive rebounding. He is clueless on the defensive side.

Numerous times the bucks put him in a P&R situation where he hedged and then instead of keeping his eye on the ball he just turned his back to the play (the biggest no no) to find his defender again. So he completely lost sight of the basketball and it caused out\r defense to over rotate which lead to open 3's.

It was a disgusting display of defense and anything amare gives us offensively, he gives up twice as much defensively.

I can only hope Fisher was just resting dalembert due to not wanting to overuse him in the preseason because he is our only rim protector especially if Cole is going to be riding the bench.

I would rather play 85-83 games and hopefully allow to triangle to improve guys offensive games then to see all of our better offensive players out there. Because it happens that our best/most dynamic offensive players are all butchers on the defensive end. (JR,THjr, and Amare there defensive awareness is just comical)

I mean maybe the knicks are trying to showcase some guys early so we can trade them. That would be only idea of to why these guys are getting more run.