Moderators: Deeeez Knicks, dakomish23, mpharris36, j4remi, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, HerSports85
Clyde_Style wrote:
This could mean some additional negative coverage of Trump on Fox right before the election which could blunt the turnout of Trump supporters voting on Nov. 3rd
_______ M U C K A_________ ** GO NY GO NY GO NY GO! ** Clyde_Style wrote:KnicksGod wrote:Calling out Joe for Burisma after all that Trump has done is like trying to argue that the Knicks are better than the Lakers.
STFU! What About Hillary!Spoiler:
_______ M U C K A_________ ** GO NY GO NY GO NY GO! ** stuporman wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:stuporman wrote:
I agree with much of what you said except that 'printing money' is absolutely the 'infinite option', that's the way they set the system up as. Look at what just happened, more than 10 trillion dollars 'printed' and injected in a few different ways into the economy in the matter of months.
The problem is that 95% of that went to the banks and corporations because of the steadfast belief but continually disproven notion that the money 'trickles down' to everyone. That method enriches the few because they get to decide where that money goes and what do you think they are going to decide?
It's also how the established hierarchy gets perpetuated in society and the economy with the funds going to who those in control want and the people excluded they want. Racism, sexism and all sorts of other inequality gets reinforced through that selective process the economy gets 'help' in this way.
It's also not just 'picking winners' as some often like to complain about when someone gets money they don't want, it's actually making winners out of losers. Corporations that have mismanaged, often intentionally to enrich the few, so when market stresses come along they need to get bailed out.
The wealthy get their money even though they misbehaved and choose to keep it for themselves while the populous struggles to survive in these times of crises....or just anytime really. It's 'infinite money printed' through socialism for the wealthy elites and rugged individualism for the poor masses as the famous saying eludes to.
If the money were injected at the bottom people would be able to use it to take care of their needs so it would flow up to those wealthy elites anyway. Rent, mortgages, debt, food, services, goods and everything that people spend their money on, those corps would get it eventually anyway.
Sure there will be some who save or invest in their own life but this would raise up their conditions and allow them to rise up out of poverty or up from working class to middle class or middle class to more affluent and so on. Instead of waiting for some mythical trickle down while the debt and bills pile up.
I have no faith that Biden would make any significant changes to how this process happens, he's a neoliberal and part of the established hierarchy. He may try to do more for people in this crises than Trump or the Republicans will try to but in the long run he will perpetuate the system that has brought about the economic inequality in the first place.
When the Obama administration had the opportunity in the previous economic crises to keep people in their homes by using the bailout to clear the underwater debt in passing it through them which eventually gets to the banks anyway yet they chose not to. They gave it to the banks and let them take millions of family's homes.
Coincidentally, Kamala as AG chose not to prosecute Mnuchin for fraudulently taking people's homes in Cali when the rest of the AG office....and many other including those who's homes were taken wanted her to. See how this is one big inbred group of self dealing, self protecting and self perpetuating elitist class?
Biden surely is a better choice than Trump, but he's not a 'good' choice. Decades of choosing lesser of two evils has only given us more evil choices to choose from. As long as people continue to empower those who oppress them by accepting the evil choices as suffice nothing will change.
I'm going to judge Biden by what he does as President, because he has some potential to do things that are absolutely needed soon that would not happen otherwise. Do I expect him to turn the wealth equation upside down? No. But I do think there are some leaders who can respond to a zeitgeist when they finally get the top job. In Biden's case his age may actually unburden him of the consequence of ruffling feathers so I will see what he does before I write chapter and verse on his collusion with a corrupt system.
I judge Biden on everything he's done because that's how I decide if someone is deserving of my vote. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Yet I also recognize that things and people change so the best way to get the change one seeks is to understand how that change happens.
He's been terrible but he's also been more easily influenced by the trends around him so that suggests to me if he does get in that pressure can be put on him to do things...and it's already been shown that he is influenced in this primary process.
I doubt any one person can upend the whole system not even Bernie or any other progressive. Although there are a few things that can be done which has huge impacts on people's lives and the system won't change but people's lives will change for the better so I'll take that for what it's worth.
The first one is health care and how it is being held hostage primarily by insurance companies and secondarily by employers. Prying away control of health care from those two will help people live healthier lives. Ideally it would be medicare for all but at least a public option initially will begin to do this.
Yes, there will likely be issues with public option that insurance companies will try to exploit in various ways but if the law is written well they can be mitigated to a large degree. Just being able to access health care without interference by insurance corps and employers will go a long way to giving power back to people in both health and finances. He seems open to doing this.
The other is a college plan that helps people get educated, stay up to date educated and continuing to be without being in debt for decades. This would open the upward mobility and financial stability to the working class while freeing them from the chains of debt from it. It boggles the mind that this is something that has been neglected so long but I know why it has, they want people dumb or in debt.... or both really. He seems like he has a plan for that so maybe it will happen
Those two things would change lives in such a dramatic way. Everyone from cities to rural can get healthy and get educated/trained to be productive in the economy and provide for themselves and their families.
If Biden did those two things he would be a successful President, a very well like one and history would look favorably on him.
KnicksGod wrote:It's also just terrible politics and judgment by the Republicans. Trying to pin Joe as corrupt is not how T is winning this election. No chance. He probably has no chance anyway, but he definitely is not winning on this. It's a crisis, people like Joe and know T is full of crap.
The crazy part is that all T had to do is show some empathy, get ahead of the curve on Covid a little, be nicer, and shut up. That would have actually been politically easy to an extent, and a winner.
So beyond the honesty and stuff, his judgment is so bad.
_______ M U C K A_________ ** GO NY GO NY GO NY GO! ** 
BKlutch wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:
This could mean some additional negative coverage of Trump on Fox right before the election which could blunt the turnout of Trump supporters voting on Nov. 3rd
Murdoch helped ruin government in Australia and the US, was married to the very hot Wendi Deng Murdoch (the one who fended off an attacker as Murdoch testified in front of Parliament), and is now married to Jerry Hall.
Wonder why he gets all these hot women? Hmmm... ok, nevermind.
thebuzzardman wrote:
Donate now to his PAC "Schlongs For Socialism"
Clyde_Style wrote:thebuzzardman wrote:
Donate now to his PAC "Schlongs For Socialism"
You mean the Dicks vs. Pricks SuperPAC?
HarthorneWingo wrote:stuporman wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:
Deficit spending has not created the effects that many economists in the past predicted, you're right about that. It does mean as you're saying the government can in one sense spend us towards a more equitable system and I also agree that keeping people on edge is a form of control.
But printing money is not an infinite option. Trump's tax bill amplified the consequences of blowing up the deficit and NOT spending on civilians.
My point stands that the Europeans were more equitable in their approach to spending to shield their citizens from the worst economic effects and that Biden may be forced to respond in a simllar manner particularly after Trump's mishandling of every aspect of the pandemic. And if he does do that, and he can and he should, then it is a significant difference from Trump and the GOP no matter how much you want to lump them all together as a corrupt establishment.
I agree with much of what you said except that 'printing money' is absolutely the 'infinite option', that's the way they set the system up as. Look at what just happened, more than 10 trillion dollars 'printed' and injected in a few different ways into the economy in the matter of months.
The problem is that 95% of that went to the banks and corporations because of the steadfast belief but continually disproven notion that the money 'trickles down' to everyone. That method enriches the few because they get to decide where that money goes and what do you think they are going to decide?
It's also how the established hierarchy gets perpetuated in society and the economy with the funds going to who those in control want and the people excluded they want. Racism, sexism and all sorts of other inequality gets reinforced through that selective process the economy gets 'help' in this way.
It's also not just 'picking winners' as some often like to complain about when someone gets money they don't want, it's actually making winners out of losers. Corporations that have mismanaged, often intentionally to enrich the few, so when market stresses come along they need to get bailed out.
The wealthy get their money even though they misbehaved and choose to keep it for themselves while the populous struggles to survive in these times of crises....or just anytime really. It's 'infinite money printed' through socialism for the wealthy elites and rugged individualism for the poor masses as the famous saying eludes to.
If the money were injected at the bottom people would be able to use it to take care of their needs so it would flow up to those wealthy elites anyway. Rent, mortgages, debt, food, services, goods and everything that people spend their money on, those corps would get it eventually anyway.
Sure there will be some who save or invest in their own life but this would raise up their conditions and allow them to rise up out of poverty or up from working class to middle class or middle class to more affluent and so on. Instead of waiting for some mythical trickle down while the debt and bills pile up.
I have no faith that Biden would make any significant changes to how this process happens, he's a neoliberal and part of the established hierarchy. He may try to do more for people in this crises than Trump or the Republicans will try to but in the long run he will perpetuate the system that has brought about the economic inequality in the first place.
When the Obama administration had the opportunity in the previous economic crises to keep people in their homes by using the bailout to clear the underwater debt in passing it through them which eventually gets to the banks anyway yet they chose not to. They gave it to the banks and let them take millions of family's homes.
Coincidentally, Kamala as AG chose not to prosecute Mnuchin for fraudulently taking people's homes in Cali when the rest of the AG office....and many other including those who's homes were taken wanted her to. See how this is one big inbred group of self dealing, self protecting and self perpetuating elitist class?
Biden surely is a better choice than Trump, but he's not a 'good' choice. Decades of choosing lesser of two evils has only given us more evil choices to choose from. As long as people continue to empower those who oppress them by accepting the evil choices as suffice nothing will change.
I agree with you on Biden, but I do hold out hope that he can be pushed left. The circumstances on the ground will force his hand to a degree as well.
Clyde_Style wrote:stuporman wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:
I'm going to judge Biden by what he does as President, because he has some potential to do things that are absolutely needed soon that would not happen otherwise. Do I expect him to turn the wealth equation upside down? No. But I do think there are some leaders who can respond to a zeitgeist when they finally get the top job. In Biden's case his age may actually unburden him of the consequence of ruffling feathers so I will see what he does before I write chapter and verse on his collusion with a corrupt system.
I judge Biden on everything he's done because that's how I decide if someone is deserving of my vote. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Yet I also recognize that things and people change so the best way to get the change one seeks is to understand how that change happens.
He's been terrible but he's also been more easily influenced by the trends around him so that suggests to me if he does get in that pressure can be put on him to do things...and it's already been shown that he is influenced in this primary process.
I doubt any one person can upend the whole system not even Bernie or any other progressive. Although there are a few things that can be done which has huge impacts on people's lives and the system won't change but people's lives will change for the better so I'll take that for what it's worth.
The first one is health care and how it is being held hostage primarily by insurance companies and secondarily by employers. Prying away control of health care from those two will help people live healthier lives. Ideally it would be medicare for all but at least a public option initially will begin to do this.
Yes, there will likely be issues with public option that insurance companies will try to exploit in various ways but if the law is written well they can be mitigated to a large degree. Just being able to access health care without interference by insurance corps and employers will go a long way to giving power back to people in both health and finances. He seems open to doing this.
The other is a college plan that helps people get educated, stay up to date educated and continuing to be without being in debt for decades. This would open the upward mobility and financial stability to the working class while freeing them from the chains of debt from it. It boggles the mind that this is something that has been neglected so long but I know why it has, they want people dumb or in debt.... or both really. He seems like he has a plan for that so maybe it will happen
Those two things would change lives in such a dramatic way. Everyone from cities to rural can get healthy and get educated/trained to be productive in the economy and provide for themselves and their families.
If Biden did those two things he would be a successful President, a very well like one and history would look favorably on him.
I'd add his plans for a Clean Energy Infrastructure to make that three major initiatives that will change the world for the better. This election is about the environment too IMO.
? 
BallSacBounce wrote:Oscirus wrote:BallSacBounce wrote:You argued Harry Reid was justified in his ending the judicial filibuster because of alleged obstruction.
I showed confirmations were on pace with Bush the previous President. You then argued well that's only because Obama had a filibuster proof Senate majority his first two years. I showed he was at a slower pace his first two years than his last two in his first term when he was supposedly being obstructed. You don't have a point anymore. Thanks for playing.
You can stick your fingers in your ear and go lalalala "Im not listening to you" all you want. Fact of the matter is that an article you posted disproved your own point. Stop while you're behind.
Or to quote someone that Im sure is one of your heros, "facts dont care about your feelings."
That article proved my point. As for the rest right back at you.
Jimmit79 wrote:At this point I want RJ to get paid
?robillionaire wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:stuporman wrote:
I agree with much of what you said except that 'printing money' is absolutely the 'infinite option', that's the way they set the system up as. Look at what just happened, more than 10 trillion dollars 'printed' and injected in a few different ways into the economy in the matter of months.
The problem is that 95% of that went to the banks and corporations because of the steadfast belief but continually disproven notion that the money 'trickles down' to everyone. That method enriches the few because they get to decide where that money goes and what do you think they are going to decide?
It's also how the established hierarchy gets perpetuated in society and the economy with the funds going to who those in control want and the people excluded they want. Racism, sexism and all sorts of other inequality gets reinforced through that selective process the economy gets 'help' in this way.
It's also not just 'picking winners' as some often like to complain about when someone gets money they don't want, it's actually making winners out of losers. Corporations that have mismanaged, often intentionally to enrich the few, so when market stresses come along they need to get bailed out.
The wealthy get their money even though they misbehaved and choose to keep it for themselves while the populous struggles to survive in these times of crises....or just anytime really. It's 'infinite money printed' through socialism for the wealthy elites and rugged individualism for the poor masses as the famous saying eludes to.
If the money were injected at the bottom people would be able to use it to take care of their needs so it would flow up to those wealthy elites anyway. Rent, mortgages, debt, food, services, goods and everything that people spend their money on, those corps would get it eventually anyway.
Sure there will be some who save or invest in their own life but this would raise up their conditions and allow them to rise up out of poverty or up from working class to middle class or middle class to more affluent and so on. Instead of waiting for some mythical trickle down while the debt and bills pile up.
I have no faith that Biden would make any significant changes to how this process happens, he's a neoliberal and part of the established hierarchy. He may try to do more for people in this crises than Trump or the Republicans will try to but in the long run he will perpetuate the system that has brought about the economic inequality in the first place.
When the Obama administration had the opportunity in the previous economic crises to keep people in their homes by using the bailout to clear the underwater debt in passing it through them which eventually gets to the banks anyway yet they chose not to. They gave it to the banks and let them take millions of family's homes.
Coincidentally, Kamala as AG chose not to prosecute Mnuchin for fraudulently taking people's homes in Cali when the rest of the AG office....and many other including those who's homes were taken wanted her to. See how this is one big inbred group of self dealing, self protecting and self perpetuating elitist class?
Biden surely is a better choice than Trump, but he's not a 'good' choice. Decades of choosing lesser of two evils has only given us more evil choices to choose from. As long as people continue to empower those who oppress them by accepting the evil choices as suffice nothing will change.
I agree with you on Biden, but I do hold out hope that he can be pushed left. The circumstances on the ground will force his hand to a degree as well.
Your hope is probably misplaced but it's not like we have any other options, at least not within the confines of electoral politics, they know they have the gun to our head so long as the gop continue to exist and pursue their dastardly aims. trump was almost like their way of punishing us and reminding with a preview of exactly how bad they can make it for us if we don't continue to support the neoliberals. so bad, that my first instinct is to move to a swing state and vote straight democrat for the rest of my life(i might really do this next year, looking at north carolina). and i'm not even a democrat or a liberal so I can only imagine how they feel about it. so yeah with so many ready and willing to support overt fascism as the only alternative they have us at their mercy and we have no bargaining power or voice and that's just the way it's going to be as we will spend the next century trying to mitigate as much damage as we can until it's mercifully over for humanity. have a nice day
Clyde_Style wrote:robillionaire wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:
I agree with you on Biden, but I do hold out hope that he can be pushed left. The circumstances on the ground will force his hand to a degree as well.
Your hope is probably misplaced but it's not like we have any other options, at least not within the confines of electoral politics, they know they have the gun to our head so long as the gop continue to exist and pursue their dastardly aims. trump was almost like their way of punishing us and reminding with a preview of exactly how bad they can make it for us if we don't continue to support the neoliberals. so bad, that my first instinct is to move to a swing state and vote straight democrat for the rest of my life(i might really do this next year, looking at north carolina). and i'm not even a democrat or a liberal so I can only imagine how they feel about it. so yeah with so many ready and willing to support overt fascism as the only alternative they have us at their mercy and we have no bargaining power or voice and that's just the way it's going to be as we will spend the next century trying to mitigate as much damage as we can until it's mercifully over for humanity. have a nice day
NO. Nobody Not Ever in the Democratic Party leadership sat in a back room and said:
"You know what? It might be good for our stanglehood on the economic system if we let a DBag like Trump destroy everything and make a mockery of democracy just to scare the bejesus out of the peasants so they feel like we are their saviors. This is going to be awesome."
This was not one of your better posts
robillionaire wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:robillionaire wrote:
Your hope is probably misplaced but it's not like we have any other options, at least not within the confines of electoral politics, they know they have the gun to our head so long as the gop continue to exist and pursue their dastardly aims. trump was almost like their way of punishing us and reminding with a preview of exactly how bad they can make it for us if we don't continue to support the neoliberals. so bad, that my first instinct is to move to a swing state and vote straight democrat for the rest of my life(i might really do this next year, looking at north carolina). and i'm not even a democrat or a liberal so I can only imagine how they feel about it. so yeah with so many ready and willing to support overt fascism as the only alternative they have us at their mercy and we have no bargaining power or voice and that's just the way it's going to be as we will spend the next century trying to mitigate as much damage as we can until it's mercifully over for humanity. have a nice day
NO. Nobody Not Ever in the Democratic Party leadership sat in a back room and said:
"You know what? It might be good for our stanglehood on the economic system if we let a DBag like Trump destroy everything and make a mockery of democracy just to scare the bejesus out of the peasants so they feel like we are their saviors. This is going to be awesome."
This was not one of your better posts
just accept the victory with some grace, damn
Clyde_Style wrote:robillionaire wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:
NO. Nobody Not Ever in the Democratic Party leadership sat in a back room and said:
"You know what? It might be good for our stanglehood on the economic system if we let a DBag like Trump destroy everything and make a mockery of democracy just to scare the bejesus out of the peasants so they feel like we are their saviors. This is going to be awesome."
This was not one of your better posts
just accept the victory with some grace, damn
This is a really chitty comeback by you. Not only were you the one whose unhinged reasoning was completely lacking in grace, now you're extending this bad logic further by suggesting I should take my bowl of porridge like Oliver and move along as if I'm in lockstep with the Democratic Party myself when I clearly am not.
You were indulging your worst impulses, not me. Deal with it
robillionaire wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:robillionaire wrote:
just accept the victory with some grace, damn
This is a really chitty comeback by you. Not only were you the one whose unhinged reasoning was completely lacking in grace, now you're extending this bad logic further by suggesting I should take my bowl of porridge like Oliver and move along as if I'm in lockstep with the Democratic Party myself when I clearly am not.
You were indulging your worst impulses, not me. Deal with it
Correct, I am without any hope and expressing that. Idk what you want from me. You win. I completely surrender.
robillionaire wrote:It just seems that with the judiciary packed with activist trump judges it will take at least 30-40 years to undo all this, absolute best case scenario, it will take the rest of our lives just to undo the damage of the past 4, even if Trump loses. Very hard to be optimistic about that. It's gone from fighting for ambitions to just fighting to survive and probably to win back the rights that were already won that are soon to be stripped away
robillionaire wrote:It just seems that with the judiciary packed with activist trump judges it will take at least 30-40 years to undo all this, absolute best case scenario, it will take the rest of our lives just to undo the damage of the past 4, even if Trump loses. Very hard to be optimistic about that. It's gone from fighting for ambitions to just fighting to survive and probably to win back the rights that were already won that are soon to be stripped away