PG: Awful gameplan, not prepared, not 1 good performance

[Wildcat]

Read on Twitter

38 FTs. Knicks got away with some calls, too. They execute, they win.

[8516knicks]

Another thing that really bothers me is how after 90+ games, Brunson and KAT have zero offensive synergy.

Like if they were destroying opponents to the tune of 75 points or better combined we'd probably be up in this series big. Everything is just grind for points 1 v 1.

I dunno how that gets fixed.

Better coaching

I trust the "better" was redundant?

[8516knicks]

He's a garbage time player on his way out of the league, waived by the Wizards a year ago. He shouldn't be the backup to Brunson in the ecf. This is crazy

What does any of this have to do with his defense and ability to help relieve pressure on Brunson with his ball handling tho?

There's only two other guys on the roster that can handle the ball outside of Brunson and Wright. One is unplayable, the other is a rookie who allegedly cannot read.

We have to work with what we have available. This series has been about guard play. Having a guy that can defend POA, get through screens and help Brunson with initiating is an actual need so why not play him?

Everyone poo poos the players outside of Thibs 7 man rotation, but the reality is that most teams aren't bringing all stars off of their bench and most coaches carve out roles for their guys who aren't starter level. Thibs couldn't be bothered back in December and here we are getting worked by a coach who leans into his roster to support his best 5.

Pacers had a guy drop 20 points in 12 minutes from their bench, here we are celebrating Wrights 3pts. Its not the same[/quote

It's 20 pts in KNICK BENCH POINTS (like Dog years).

[robillionaire]

In fairness, the lineup change is negated if Hart comes in far too early because of KAT's fouling in yesterday's game. But also Thibs sub patterns are dog ****.

If their assumption was that the main problem on defense is towns, which after game 2 I believe was their thought process, then no, the lineup change isn’t negated by his 2 fouls. In fact the defense should have been even further beefed up with Mitch out there and Hart coming in for towns. Instead, we gave up 43 pts with zero resistance

No, the assumption is offense looks like dog **** with Hart out there. Hart's horrific D is just icing on the cake. And again, it's ridiculous that KAT couldn't stay on the floor from the get go to establish *their* game. Whatever advantages or schemes that were in the book went out the window when KAT sat because we already know from a couple of examples, Hart/Mitch seems to not be working.

But the Knicks scored 35 points in the first themselves and 120something in the game, the offense was good enough to win if any defense at all is played

[whocares1]

Another thing that really bothers me is how after 90+ games, Brunson and KAT have zero offensive synergy.

Like if they were destroying opponents to the tune of 75 points or better combined we'd probably be up in this series big. Everything is just grind for points 1 v 1.

I dunno how that gets fixed.

They are uniquely suited to complement each other on offense quite well actually.

It is an indictment against them that they haven't figured it out. That mostly falls on Brunson as the floor general though.

The ultimate blame belongs to Thibs. Brunson can do those things if it was mandated.

There was a play yesterday where Brunson just straight up missed him on the perimeter and to me it either means that he doesn’t have the presence of knowing where Towns will be unless he’s looking at him directly which is concerning from a lead guard..or it’s bc he isn’t watching film to try to make the pairing work together offensively.

If Thibs was smart tho he would call for a Towns iso a lot more and have Brunson play off the ball if they can’t figure out how to play with each other.

[HEZI]

Harts turnovers yesterday likely cost us the game, today isn't the day to defend him.

Sure they did. All that work your two big lineup did of looking like crap was thrown away by Hart

So who are we blaming for the notoriously slow 1st quarters? Mikal? OJ? Mitch now? Brunson? Or ... the big elegant in the room, KAT (or Thibs, pick one).

Leon Rose. Starting lineup was built to be weak defensively, players are playing out of position, lack of ball handling, inconsistent shooting, arguably the worst bench in the league with little quality depth. No identity. Well I guess we did establish an identity as a grind it out team so the slow starts were just a part of it. Thibs conditioned them to become resilient and be able to weather storms and still keep fighting. We did well grinding teams out and winning by submission in the late quarter. We didn’t have the type of offensive dynamic to knock teams out early but we would get better as the game progressed. So that’s who we became.

[sol537]

Sure they did. All that work your two big lineup did of looking like crap was thrown away by Hart

So who are we blaming for the notoriously slow 1st quarters? Mikal? OJ? Mitch now? Brunson? Or ... the big elegant in the room, KAT (or Thibs, pick one).

Leon Rose. Starting lineup was built to be weak defensively, players are playing out of position, lack of ball handling, inconsistent shooting, arguably the worst bench in the league with little quality depth. No identity. Well I guess we did establish an identity as a grind it out team so the slow starts were just a part of it. Thibs conditioned them to become resilient and be able to weather storms and still keep fighting. We did well grinding teams out and winning by submission in the late quarter. We didn’t have the type of offensive dynamic to knock teams out early but we would get better as the game progressed. So that’s who we became.

Leon can still put us on the right path. I think KAT has more value than Randle/DDV would have had coming into this off-season so that alone is a win. We should flip him for one or more pieces that are capable of defending at a high level.

Our bench should be much better next season since we still have Mitch and Deuce on the books. Plus we have the Tax MLE to utilize for added depth.

The main upgrade Leon can make, however, is to bring in a guy like Dan Hurley (or Jay Wright?) to steer the ship. The right coach can get us to 60 wins and a finals appearance.

[kNicksGmen]

Read on Twitter

38 FTs. Knicks got away with some calls, too. They execute, they win.

Yea I mean their gameplan seemed to be to be physical (aka hack on virtually every possession) since the refs aren't going to blow the whistle every time.

[K_ick_God]

It’s just annoying

Legions of Knicks fans living and dying with it and Thibs has a totally narrow view of how to play and is making mistakes that are just out to lunch

Kind of silly … and it’s okay to let out that hurt

There are issues with the players … JB is a solo act and KAT has never emerged as alpha

Still call TO Tom and we up 1-0

[KnixinSix]

So who are we blaming for the notoriously slow 1st quarters? Mikal? OJ? Mitch now? Brunson? Or ... the big elegant in the room, KAT (or Thibs, pick one).

Leon Rose. Starting lineup was built to be weak defensively, players are playing out of position, lack of ball handling, inconsistent shooting, arguably the worst bench in the league with little quality depth. No identity. Well I guess we did establish an identity as a grind it out team so the slow starts were just a part of it. Thibs conditioned them to become resilient and be able to weather storms and still keep fighting. We did well grinding teams out and winning by submission in the late quarter. We didn’t have the type of offensive dynamic to knock teams out early but we would get better as the game progressed. So that’s who we became.

Leon can still put us on the right path. I think KAT has more value than Randle/DDV would have had coming into this off-season so that alone is a win. We should flip him for one or more pieces that are capable of defending at a high level.

Our bench should be much better next season since we still have Mitch and Deuce on the books. Plus we have the Tax MLE to utilize for added depth.

The main upgrade Leon can make, however, is to bring in a guy like Dan Hurley (or Jay Wright?) to steer the ship. The right coach can get us to 60 wins and a finals appearance.

https://www.nj.com/sports/2024/06/the-ultimate-hollywood-ending-for-dan-hurley-is-not-coaching-the-lakers-its-coaching-the-knicks.html

[HEZI]

So who are we blaming for the notoriously slow 1st quarters? Mikal? OJ? Mitch now? Brunson? Or ... the big elegant in the room, KAT (or Thibs, pick one).

Leon Rose. Starting lineup was built to be weak defensively, players are playing out of position, lack of ball handling, inconsistent shooting, arguably the worst bench in the league with little quality depth. No identity. Well I guess we did establish an identity as a grind it out team so the slow starts were just a part of it. Thibs conditioned them to become resilient and be able to weather storms and still keep fighting. We did well grinding teams out and winning by submission in the late quarter. We didn’t have the type of offensive dynamic to knock teams out early but we would get better as the game progressed. So that’s who we became.

Leon can still put us on the right path. I think KAT has more value than Randle/DDV would have had coming into this off-season so that alone is a win. We should flip him for one or more pieces that are capable of defending at a high level.

Our bench should be much better next season since we still have Mitch and Deuce on the books. Plus we have the Tax MLE to utilize for added depth.

The main upgrade Leon can make, however, is to bring in a guy like Dan Hurley (or Jay Wright?) to steer the ship. The right coach can get us to 60 wins and a finals appearance.

Replace KAT with who though? I don’t think just removing KAT and adding defensive players would make us better. KAT has won us games, playoff games and it’s not that simple to just replace his production and value to the team. The bad defense yes I understand and acknowledge it but his offense is not that easy to just replace. He’s a highly efficient scorer who is good enough to win you big games which he has.

[Kidknick!]

Rick Carlisle: Championship winning coaching pedigree.

Tom Thibadunce: Lives alone, unmarried and eats Pedigree dog food.

[8516knicks]

Rick Carlisle: Championship winning coaching pedigree.

Tom Thibadunce: Lives alone, unmarried and eats Pedigree dog food.

Damn. Now I'm rooting for him.

[HerSports85]

I can't stand her, but in this instance she's 100% correct.

Her takes sometimes irk me as well. But dismissing a woman in sports like that for whatever reason when they been in sports journalism for about 10 years, graduated at the top of their class and been covering the knicks on many national platforms pisses me TF off.

When did I dismiss her for being a woman?

My bad wasn’t for you.

[HerSports85]

This is exactly why, although a feat we have not achieved in 25 years, reaching the ECF and going out like this feels like failure.

Read on Twitter

[Context]

This is exactly why, although a feat we have not achieved in 25 years, reaching the ECF and going out like this feels like failure.

Read on Twitter

I love seeing these narratives coming out today. Just what our team needs to get pissed off and will 3 wins
Everyone is talking like we have no shot. LETS GO!

[KnixinSix]

Leon Rose. Starting lineup was built to be weak defensively, players are playing out of position, lack of ball handling, inconsistent shooting, arguably the worst bench in the league with little quality depth. No identity. Well I guess we did establish an identity as a grind it out team so the slow starts were just a part of it. Thibs conditioned them to become resilient and be able to weather storms and still keep fighting. We did well grinding teams out and winning by submission in the late quarter. We didn’t have the type of offensive dynamic to knock teams out early but we would get better as the game progressed. So that’s who we became.

Leon can still put us on the right path. I think KAT has more value than Randle/DDV would have had coming into this off-season so that alone is a win. We should flip him for one or more pieces that are capable of defending at a high level.

Our bench should be much better next season since we still have Mitch and Deuce on the books. Plus we have the Tax MLE to utilize for added depth.

The main upgrade Leon can make, however, is to bring in a guy like Dan Hurley (or Jay Wright?) to steer the ship. The right coach can get us to 60 wins and a finals appearance.

Replace KAT with who though? I don’t think just removing KAT and adding defensive players would make us better. KAT has won us games, playoff games and it’s not that simple to just replace his production and value to the team. The bad defense yes I understand and acknowledge it but his offense is not that easy to just replace. He’s a highly efficient scorer who is good enough to win you big games which he has.

The Pacers are literally one of the worst matchups for us because of the way they are so deadly in matchup hunting. When you have defensive liabilties at BOTH the 1 and the 5 and your coach inexplicably and/or stubbornly continues to plays both together for extended minutes its a recipe for defensive disaster. A team like the Pacers especially have so many ways to beat you that no matter how fast you switch,rotate etc. their ball movement and decision making under Carlisles scheme they almost always end up with an uncontested or lightly contested shot or drive to the hoop.

Just look at the difference in the difficulty of shots on average that the Knicks take vs the shots the other team takes for further proof. Sure the Pacers made a few high difficulty shots but man they had soooo many uncontested easy ones.

Further evidence is almost every lineup permutation with only one of either KAT or Brunson was a strong positive or close to it. But with both on the floor together it was a defensive catastrophe.

It is why from essentially from the beginning of game 1 , I saw this as CLEAR AS DAY..Now if I can see this, a half decent NBA coach should most definitely be able to pick up on this..and started posting about it with the main priority needing to be staggering KATs and Brunson's minutes as possible.

Carlisle entire game plan centered around absolutely and relentlessly attacking the KAT and Brunson matchup NON STOP. It also made them expend so much more energy on their end too. This was 100% an out coaching job by Carlisle on Thibs. If Thibs would have went against all his tendencies and played Brunson and KAT a bit less maybe no more than 32 minutes each (which means you could limit the time they are both on floor for only 16 minutes together) along with playing Wright, McBride and even Shamet significantly more , all the metrics say that net ratings of the other lineups if utilized for longer minutes would have led to wins in probably 3 of the 4 games.

[Chanel Bomber]

This is exactly why, although a feat we have not achieved in 25 years, reaching the ECF and going out like this feels like failure.

Read on Twitter

I don't know if we underachieved as much as we're just facing a better team.

We beat Boston fair and square. We were essentially up 3-1 when Tatum went down. Us beating Boston was very much an upset.

But I think Indiana may just be better.

I always thought Haliburton was a better player than Brunson. Just a more complete player overall.

The Pacers also have better role players in that their role players do role player stuff (defend, space the floor, hit 3s). And they do it well. Mikal and OG have been unreliable at best, if not a liability on offense in the case of Mikal. The signs were there all year but the playoffs plus an uncomfortable match up have put those weaknesses under a magnifying glass.

It feels like a failure relative to our hopes, which were perfectly reasonable, but I think what we're seeing may just be part of what the team always was. A number of experts picked Indiana to win the series for a reason.

[Adelheid]

Leon can still put us on the right path. I think KAT has more value than Randle/DDV would have had coming into this off-season so that alone is a win. We should flip him for one or more pieces that are capable of defending at a high level.

Our bench should be much better next season since we still have Mitch and Deuce on the books. Plus we have the Tax MLE to utilize for added depth.

The main upgrade Leon can make, however, is to bring in a guy like Dan Hurley (or Jay Wright?) to steer the ship. The right coach can get us to 60 wins and a finals appearance.

Replace KAT with who though? I don’t think just removing KAT and adding defensive players would make us better. KAT has won us games, playoff games and it’s not that simple to just replace his production and value to the team. The bad defense yes I understand and acknowledge it but his offense is not that easy to just replace. He’s a highly efficient scorer who is good enough to win you big games which he has.

The Pacers are literally one of the worst matchups for us because of the way they are so deadly in matchup hunting. When you have defensive liabilties at BOTH the 1 and the 5 and your coach inexplicably and/or stubbornly continues to plays both together for extended minutes its a recipe for defensive disaster. A team like the Pacers especially have so many ways to beat you that no matter how fast you switch,rotate etc. their ball movement and decision making under Carlisles scheme they almost always end up with an uncontested or lightly contested shot or drive to the hoop.

Just look at the difference in the difficulty of shots on average that the Knicks take vs the shots the other team takes for further proof. Sure the Pacers made a few high difficulty shots but man they had soooo many uncontested easy ones.

Further evidence is almost every lineup permutation with only one of either KAT or Brunson was a strong positive or close to it. But with both on the floor together it was a defensive catastrophe.

It is why from essentially from the beginning of game 1 , I saw this as CLEAR AS DAY..Now if I can see this, a half decent NBA coach should most definitely be able to pick up on this..and started posting about it with the main priority needing to be staggering KATs and Brunson's minutes as possible.

Carlisle entire game plan centered around absolutely and relentlessly attacking the KAT and Brunson matchup NON STOP. It also made them expend so much more energy on their end too. This was 100% an out coaching job by Carlisle on Thibs. If Thibs would have went against all his tendencies and played Brunson and KAT a bit less maybe no more than 32 minutes each (which means you could limit the time they are both on floor for only 16 minutes together) along with playing Wright, McBride and even Shamet significantly more , all the metrics say that net ratings of the other lineups if utilized for longer minutes would have led to wins in probably 3 of the 4 games.

matchup hunting is a function of the coaching staff/hc

[K_ick_God]

And for those focused on ECF, we were an unlikely comeback away from losing G6 in Detroit and then G7 is a total tossup.

Then we maybe don’t even get out of Round 1.