Game Thread: Bucks vs Knicks @ Carmelo's Home. 7:30PM MSG

[Deeeez Knicks]

Is there really a big difference if Amare is playing C vs PF? Seems like he will be exposed either way.

I'd say maybe backup C he has less of a chance to get burned just because there are not many backup C's that can score.

agreed

the only reason I think people want amare to start is because he is more in rhythm and he wont sulk. But tough **** if you ask me. The reason he shouldn't play at all is because.

He needs to start to be in rhythm offensive
He can't start because he is the worst defensively

He needs to come off the bench to hide his defensive struggles
He can't come of the bench because he sulks and looks rusty

there is no good way to handle amare. He will continue to be a losing player because of this and unless we stop playing him, he gets hurt, or we trade him he will continue to cause this team to lose.

yeah, Amare can't start...the only reason I can think of to start him is that maybe he'll get hurt and take himself out of the picture.

[MaseInYourFace]

Is there really a big difference if Amare is playing C vs PF? Seems like he will be exposed either way.

I'd say maybe backup C he has less of a chance to get burned just because there are not many backup C's that can score.

My thought's exactly. Keep Dally as starting C, leaning towards Jason Smith at PF for best overall fit. I actually think Stat is a slight net positive as a backup C, in pretty much every other role he is a net negative.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Is there really a big difference if Amare is playing C vs PF? Seems like he will be exposed either way.

I'd say maybe backup C he has less of a chance to get burned just because there are not many backup C's that can score.

I feel as if his ineffective and the power forward position not only on defense but on offense as well. At least playing at the center position allows him to be productive offensively.

STAT should start to help keep pressure off of Carmelo. We can't keep asking Melo to carry the offensive load all by his lonesome at ALL times. No one we brought in can help alleviate the offensive pressure on Melo right now. The only dude remotely capable is STAT.

Our 54 win season we started Melo, Chandler, Felton and 2 out of Shump/Kidd/Brewer/Prigs. There wasn't much offense next to Melo there yet it worked. Then the front office/coaching staff tried to alleviate the offensive pressure on Melo by starting Bargs and it all fell apart.

I don't think starting an offensive player who is a huge liability on defense is the answer next to Melo. I'd rather start a more rounded player like Jason Smith. At least he will play hard, stay in his role and give us some solid d and rebounding.

Our only chance this season is to play solid D. Even if we start Amare, I don't think our offense is something we can rly on

[MaseInYourFace]

2015 Starting PG for the NY Knicks?

You know I was thinking we should go PG too no matter what.. with all the other plans if they happen..

Focusing on a PG seems shortsighted to me, they should just go best available player. The only guy on this roster is untouchable is Melo so you don't need to worry about position too much.

[Starksfor3]

Samuel Dalembert/Cole Aldrich
Jason Smith/Quincy Acy
Carmelo Anthony/Cleanthony Early
Iman Shumpert/Tim Hardaway Jr.
Jose Calderon/Pablo Prigioni

Larkin and Wear get spot minutes


No minutes for the dummies and lazies:

JR, Amar'e and Bargs

[NOOB77]

Calderon/Prigs
Shump/THjr/JR
Melo/JR/Early
Smith/Acy/Bargs
Dally/Amare/Bargs

That is what our rotation should be IMO.

[F N 11]

Aldridge or Gasol in this system

[wakkahman]

Is there really a big difference if Amare is playing C vs PF? Seems like he will be exposed either way.

I'd say maybe backup C he has less of a chance to get burned just because there are not many backup C's that can score.

I feel as if his ineffective and the power forward position not only on defense but on offense as well. At least playing at the center position allows him to be productive offensively.

STAT should start to help keep pressure off of Carmelo. We can't keep asking Melo to carry the offensive load all by his lonesome at ALL times. No one we brought in can help alleviate the offensive pressure on Melo right now. The only dude remotely capable is STAT.

Its funny, dont the knicks score more when Amare isnt playing? Didnt some1 link that statistic recently?

[MaseInYourFace]

Is there really a big difference if Amare is playing C vs PF? Seems like he will be exposed either way.

I'd say maybe backup C he has less of a chance to get burned just because there are not many backup C's that can score.

I feel as if his ineffective and the power forward position not only on defense but on offense as well. At least playing at the center position allows him to be productive offensively.

STAT should start to help keep pressure off of Carmelo. We can't keep asking Melo to carry the offensive load all by his lonesome at ALL times. No one we brought in can help alleviate the offensive pressure on Melo right now. The only dude remotely capable is STAT.

Its funny, dont the knicks score more when Amare isnt playing? Didnt some1 link that statistic recently?

They also have a winning record when he plays. Go figure. I am not sure if it's when he starts also.

[wakkahman]

I feel as if his ineffective and the power forward position not only on defense but on offense as well. At least playing at the center position allows him to be productive offensively.

STAT should start to help keep pressure off of Carmelo. We can't keep asking Melo to carry the offensive load all by his lonesome at ALL times. No one we brought in can help alleviate the offensive pressure on Melo right now. The only dude remotely capable is STAT.

Its funny, dont the knicks score more when Amare isnt playing? Didnt some1 link that statistic recently?

They also have a winning record when he plays. Go figure. I am not sure if it's when he starts also.

Are you saying they have a better record when Amare plays vs when he does not play? Cause i dont even need to look that up to know its a lie

[mpharris36]

Is there really a big difference if Amare is playing C vs PF? Seems like he will be exposed either way.

I'd say maybe backup C he has less of a chance to get burned just because there are not many backup C's that can score.

I feel as if his ineffective and the power forward position not only on defense but on offense as well. At least playing at the center position allows him to be productive offensively.

STAT should start to help keep pressure off of Carmelo. We can't keep asking Melo to carry the offensive load all by his lonesome at ALL times. No one we brought in can help alleviate the offensive pressure on Melo right now. The only dude remotely capable is STAT.

Yesterday didn't prove that starting Amare (especially at center) is an absolutely disaster to our defense.

The bucks dropped 120 on us.

The 3 previous games we gave up 80, 81, and 77.

I know I don't want to put this all on Melo but I would rather put out a old school sixers lineup with AI and 4 role players.

Calderon has proven he can score and Melo is ok enough offense to hold us down. I would rather play games in the mid 80's to low 90's rather than playing games 120-115. That doesn't suit our style of play.

This was our worst defensive game of the year and its not coincidence it happened with Amare starting at Center.

[mpharris36]

also THjr hasn't changed at all and its pretty sad. He is still a dynamic scorer and can get hot but he got absolutely lit up by OJ Mayo yesterday and that is a huge concern. I really wouldn't be opposed to moving THjr in the right package.

[three2theD]

also THjr hasn't changed at all and its pretty sad. He is still a dynamic scorer and can get hot but he got absolutely lit up by OJ Mayo yesterday and that is a huge concern. I really wouldn't be opposed to moving THjr in the right package.

Shumpert was getting lit up by your boy mayo. All the talk on this board how good shumpert is and players go off on him all the time. He can't play solid.

[suicidedeuce]

also THjr hasn't changed at all and its pretty sad. He is still a dynamic scorer and can get hot but he got absolutely lit up by OJ Mayo yesterday and that is a huge concern. I really wouldn't be opposed to moving THjr in the right package.

When are people going to stop thinking of defense as something players just can decide or not to be good at.

We wouldn't expect a player known for defense and who struggled on offense his rookie season to suddenly flip a switch.

Hardaway is clearly a poor defensive player. IF he improves it'll be over the long haul. He's not all of a sudden going to be a fundamentally different player on either side of the ball over the course of 1 summer.

[wakkahman]

also THjr hasn't changed at all and its pretty sad. He is still a dynamic scorer and can get hot but he got absolutely lit up by OJ Mayo yesterday and that is a huge concern. I really wouldn't be opposed to moving THjr in the right package.

Shumpert was getting lit up by your boy mayo. All the talk on this board how good shumpert is and players go off on him all the time. He can't play solid.

My guess, part of the defensive plan was for the wing defenders to sag towards the paint to compensate for autistic goggles man

[moocow007]

2015 Starting PG for the NY Knicks?

You know I was thinking we should go PG too no matter what.. with all the other plans if they happen..

Focusing on a PG seems shortsighted to me, they should just go best available player. The only guy on this roster is untouchable is Melo so you don't need to worry about position too much.

Well this PG also happens to be the projected best player in the draft.

[BugginOut]

also THjr hasn't changed at all and its pretty sad. He is still a dynamic scorer and can get hot but he got absolutely lit up by OJ Mayo yesterday and that is a huge concern. I really wouldn't be opposed to moving THjr in the right package.

THJR is looking really good on offense though. He can finish around the rim consistently, shoot FT's at a high % and is automatic from anywhere on the court. If he gets any type of handle he will be a force on offense. You don't just trade a player with that kind of offensive upside especially in their 2nd year in the league. I still believe with the right coaching eventually overtime he will be at least be a passable defender.

[suicidedeuce]

also THjr hasn't changed at all and its pretty sad. He is still a dynamic scorer and can get hot but he got absolutely lit up by OJ Mayo yesterday and that is a huge concern. I really wouldn't be opposed to moving THjr in the right package.

Shumpert was getting lit up by your boy mayo. All the talk on this board how good shumpert is and players go off on him all the time. He can't play solid.

If Shumpert gets lit up all the time, then he's involved in one of the strangest statistical anomalies of all time.

The Knicks give up FAR less points when Shumpert is on the court than when he's not - consistently.

When he's on the court, they're actually a relatively solid defensive team.

There is no mistaking this. It's recorded fact.

I'd love for someone to attempt to explain this empirically rather than just dismissing the factual recorded history.

[mpharris36]

also THjr hasn't changed at all and its pretty sad. He is still a dynamic scorer and can get hot but he got absolutely lit up by OJ Mayo yesterday and that is a huge concern. I really wouldn't be opposed to moving THjr in the right package.

Shumpert was getting lit up by your boy mayo. All the talk on this board how good shumpert is and players go off on him all the time. He can't play solid.

4:13 15-18 J.R. Smith enters the game for Iman Shumpert
4:13 Micheal Eric enters the game for John Henson 15-18
4:13 15-19 Carmelo Anthony makes free throw 2 of 2
4:03 15-19 J.R. Smith shooting foul (O.J. Mayo draws the foul)
4:03 O.J. Mayo makes free throw 1 of 2 16-19
4:03 O.J. Mayo makes free throw 2 of 2 17-19
3:53 17-19 J.R. Smith out of bounds lost ball turnover
3:44 O.J. Mayo steps out of bounds turnover 17-19
3:27 17-21 J.R. Smith makes 20-foot jumper (Amar'e Stoudemire assists)
3:03 Giannis Antetokounmpo makes 6-foot two point shot 19-21
2:58 Giannis Antetokounmpo personal foul (Carmelo Anthony draws the foul) 19-23
2:58 Bucks Full timeout
2:58 19-21 Samuel Dalembert enters the game for Amar'e Stoudemire
2:58 19-22 Carmelo Anthony makes free throw 1 of 2
2:58 19-23 Carmelo Anthony makes free throw 2 of 2
2:43 O.J. Mayo makes 25-foot three point jumper (Jared Dudley assists) 22-23
2:33 22-23 Cleanthony Early misses 27-foot three point jumper
2:31 Giannis Antetokounmpo defensive rebound 22-23
2:27 23-23 Cleanthony Early shooting foul (Giannis Antetokounmpo draws the foul)
2:27 Giannis Antetokounmpo makes free throw 1 of 2 23-23
2:27 23-23 Tim Hardaway Jr. enters the game for Carmelo Anthony
2:27 Giannis Antetokounmpo makes free throw 2 of 2 24-23
2:09 24-25 J.R. Smith makes 16-foot two point shot
2:02 O.J. Mayo makes 26-foot three point jumper (Jerryd Bayless assists) 27-25
1:40 27-28 J.R. Smith makes 26-foot (Cleanthony Early assists)
1:24 27-28 Tim Hardaway Jr. shooting foul (O.J. Mayo draws the foul)
1:24 O.J. Mayo makes free throw 1 of 2 28-28
1:24 O.J. Mayo makes free throw 2 of 2 29-28
1:08 29-28 J.R. Smith misses 19-foot jumper
1:07 Giannis Antetokounmpo defensive rebound 29-28
1:01 Giannis Antetokounmpo makes driving layup 31-28
1:01 31-28 Cleanthony Early shooting foul (Giannis Antetokounmpo draws the foul)
1:01 31-28 Travis Wear enters the game for Cleanthony Early
1:01 Giannis Antetokounmpo makes free throw 1 of 1 32-28
0:42 32-28 Shane Larkin misses 26-foot three point jumper
0:40 Giannis Antetokounmpo defensive rebound 32-28
0:26 Micheal Eric offensive foul (J.R. Smith draws the foul) 32-28
0:26 Micheal Eric turnover 32-28
0:09 32-30 Samuel Dalembert makes 16-foot two point shot
0:00 Jerryd Bayless misses 26-foot three point jumper 32-30
0:00 Bucks offensive team rebound 32-30
0:00 End of the 1st Quarter

So with shumpert on the floor we gave up 15 points in 8 minutes. Not terrible.
With shumpert off the floor in the 1st qtr we gave up 17 points in 4 minutes.

2:39 80-82 J.R. Smith enters the game for Iman Shumpert
2:39 Jared Dudley makes free throw 2 of 2 81-82
2:26 Jerryd Bayless shooting foul (Pablo Prigioni draws the foul) 81-82
2:26 81-83 Pablo Prigioni makes free throw 1 of 2
2:26 81-84 Pablo Prigioni makes free throw 2 of 2
2:10 Jerryd Bayless makes 7-foot two point shot 83-84
2:02 83-84 Tim Hardaway Jr. enters the game for Carmelo Anthony
1:46 83-86 Travis Wear makes 21-foot jumper
1:34 83-86 Travis Wear shooting foul (Giannis Antetokounmpo draws the foul)
1:34 Giannis Antetokounmpo makes free throw 1 of 2 84-86
1:34 Giannis Antetokounmpo makes free throw 2 of 2 85-86
1:19 85-86 Micheal Eric blocks J.R. Smith 's 8-foot 2-pt jumper
1:17 85-86 Knicks offensive team rebound
1:13 Giannis Antetokounmpo shooting foul (Tim Hardaway Jr. draws the foul) 85-86
1:13 85-87 Tim Hardaway Jr. makes free throw 1 of 3
1:13 85-88 Tim Hardaway Jr. makes free throw 2 of 3
1:13 Nate Wolters enters the game for Giannis Antetokounmpo 85-88
1:13 85-89 Tim Hardaway Jr. makes free throw 3 of 3
0:57 O.J. Mayo makes 26-foot three point jumper (Nate Wolters assists) 88-89
0:52 88-91 J.R. Smith makes layup (Tim Hardaway Jr. assists)
0:46 O.J. Mayo makes 24-foot three point jumper (Jerryd Bayless assists) 91-91
0:32 Jerryd Bayless shooting foul (Tim Hardaway Jr. draws the foul) 91-91
0:32 91-92 Tim Hardaway Jr. makes free throw 1 of 2
0:32 91-92 Cleanthony Early enters the game for Travis Wear
0:32 91-93 Tim Hardaway Jr. makes free throw 2 of 2
0:10 Jared Dudley makes 26-foot three point jumper (Jerryd Bayless assists) 94-93
0:04 94-93 Tim Hardaway Jr. misses 20-foot jumper
0:03 94-93 Jason Smith offensive rebound
0:03 94-93 Jason Smith misses tip shot
0:02 Jerryd Bayless defensive rebound 94-93
0:01 Jerryd Bayless misses 40-foot three point jumper 94-93
0:00 Bucks offensive team rebound 94-93
0:00 End of the 3rd Quarter

In 2 minutes and 30 seconds we gave up 14 points. Do you understand how bad that is? 14 points in less than 3 minutes. Yes 24 points in 10 minutes is not good either but its not as bad as 14 points in less than 3 minutes!

Shumpert was an even (+/-) while THjr and JR were -15 and -13 respectively.

Mayo did most of his damage vs THjr and JR. Does shumpert over help sometimes yes and I agree he shouldn't but that has a lot to do with trying to cover for amare's terrible pick and roll defense.

[K_ick_God]

If Fisher thinks he can shoehorn Amar'e and JR into the lineup as major pieces and that somehow his team D and the triangle will be able to cover for them, I think he's mistaken. That'd be the same trap that Woodson fell into -- basically it'd be Woodson without the switching. Just trying to get scorers on the court at all costs ignores reality.

Either Dally or Cole needs to be on the court at all times.