OT: NFL 24-25 Offseason Thread - Draft Day is upon us

[Ghetto Gospel]

I feel like a good QB/offense can hide other problems and a bad QB can make the team look worse than it really is. Jones threw a pick 6 so we really lost 21-6 on defense. A decent to above average QB should be able to score about 20 points then all of a sudden we have a completely different view of the team.

well the vikings with sam darnold were expected to be one of the worst teams in the league so yeah it's kind of alarming they put up 21 points on us either way. beating them wouldn't have really meant much

[mpharris36]

but thats my biggest concern...I don't think Mara will get rid of Schoen/Daboll so then you would be trusting them to draft our next QB which would be a huge concern with our recent draft history.

Like I said Daniel Jones is the low hanging fruit everyone wants to pile on but we can move on from Jones...you just can't move on from an entire roster/organization...Mara certainly wont. It would have to get like real bad for that to happen. And we typically find ways during the middle of the year to win a handful of meaningless games to get ous out of the range of picking a QB anyway.

so we should draft another position because schoen has terrible draft history? wouldn't that player be a likely bust as well?

if we end up with a top 5 pick and whoever in charge doesn't have faith in any of the QBs and wants to take like one of these guys below like say travis hunter or will johnson because he's the best player available, sure, i get it, i hope for nothing but the best for him. i'm just saying that i'm not watching more than 2 or 3 games if daniel jones is the qb. i already know the seasons gone to ****

No I'm saying fire them and let someone else make the decisions if this season goes like how yesterday went. My point is its just not the QB that is the problem, we have decision making issues too. That simply isn't fixed by just drafting a QB.

[mpharris36]

I feel like a good QB/offense can hide other problems and a bad QB can make the team look worse than it really is. Jones threw a pick 6 so we really lost 21-6 on defense. A decent to above average QB should be able to score about 20 points then all of a sudden we have a completely different view of the team.

well the vikings with sam darnold were expected to be one of the worst teams in the league so yeah it's kind of alarming they put up 21 points on us either way. beating them wouldn't have really meant much

It was 7-3 and we had them backed up on there own 1 yard line and went 99 yards...at that point the game was pretty much over...then to start the 2nd half we got a 3 and out and KT facemasked the OL on 3rd and 16 and they ended up scoring a TD..

The vikings took the foot of the gas when the lead was comfortable and it was clear DJ wasn't going to mount any sort of a comeback...so this idea the GIants defense played well is crazy to me.

[Ghetto Gospel]

but thats my biggest concern...I don't think Mara will get rid of Schoen/Daboll so then you would be trusting them to draft our next QB which would be a huge concern with our recent draft history.

Like I said Daniel Jones is the low hanging fruit everyone wants to pile on but we can move on from Jones...you just can't move on from an entire roster/organization...Mara certainly wont. It would have to get like real bad for that to happen. And we typically find ways during the middle of the year to win a handful of meaningless games to get ous out of the range of picking a QB anyway.

so we should draft another position because schoen has terrible draft history? wouldn't that player be a likely bust as well?

if we end up with a top 5 pick and whoever in charge doesn't have faith in any of the QBs and wants to take like one of these guys below like say travis hunter or will johnson because he's the best player available, sure, i get it, i hope for nothing but the best for him. i'm just saying that i'm not watching more than 2 or 3 games if daniel jones is the qb. i already know the seasons gone to ****

No I'm saying fire them and let someone else make the decisions if this season goes like how yesterday went. My point is its just not the QB that is the problem, we have decision making issues too. That simply isn't fixed by just drafting a QB.

i agree, we need to get rid of the decision makers too, and let the new ones get a fresh slate with a new QB whoever they choose. they don't have to pick someone from this upcoming draft either if they don't like anyone or they're all gone but hopefully sooner rather than later. it also doesn't mean i'm going to watch daniel jones play for more than 3 games in 2025 either

[Ghetto Gospel]

I feel like a good QB/offense can hide other problems and a bad QB can make the team look worse than it really is. Jones threw a pick 6 so we really lost 21-6 on defense. A decent to above average QB should be able to score about 20 points then all of a sudden we have a completely different view of the team.

well the vikings with sam darnold were expected to be one of the worst teams in the league so yeah it's kind of alarming they put up 21 points on us either way. beating them wouldn't have really meant much

It was 7-3 and we had them backed up on there own 1 yard line and went 99 yards...at that point the game was pretty much over...then to start the 2nd half we got a 3 and out and KT facemasked the OL on 3rd and 16 and they ended up scoring a TD..

The vikings took the foot of the gas when the lead was comfortable and it was clear DJ wasn't going to mount any sort of a comeback...so this idea the GIants defense played well is crazy to me.

yeah i was mostly just looking at like the young guys.

kayvon was invisible
banks was getting cooked by jettas but he cooks everyone so i guess jury still out.
nubin? phillips? i don't really know but the fact that sam darnold was doing whatever he wanted is enough for me to know that nothing good was going on out there. but it is game 1 for them so yeah idk, definitely not feeling inspired with hope either

[mpharris36]

so we should draft another position because schoen has terrible draft history? wouldn't that player be a likely bust as well?

if we end up with a top 5 pick and whoever in charge doesn't have faith in any of the QBs and wants to take like one of these guys below like say travis hunter or will johnson because he's the best player available, sure, i get it, i hope for nothing but the best for him. i'm just saying that i'm not watching more than 2 or 3 games if daniel jones is the qb. i already know the seasons gone to ****

No I'm saying fire them and let someone else make the decisions if this season goes like how yesterday went. My point is its just not the QB that is the problem, we have decision making issues too. That simply isn't fixed by just drafting a QB.

i agree, we need to get rid of the decision makers too, and let the new ones get a fresh slate with a new QB whoever they choose. they don't have to pick someone from this upcoming draft either if they don't like anyone or they're all gone but hopefully sooner rather than later. it also doesn't mean i'm going to watch daniel jones play for more than 3 games in 2025 either

that absolutely is your right not to watch. I was uninterested in watching much of the 4th qtr.

I mean its football so I will still watch....but I clearly will not be invested in this group or care enough. Just don't f*ck up our draft positioning late in the year like we always do so that when it comes draft day teams are asking to deplete all our draft capital to move up.

I just don't see how you can let Schoen/Daboll get another draft especially one where a QB is likely the pick. What if they have another bad season next year...you fire them after tying them to a future QB...then saddle the new GM and Coach with a QB they didn't choose?

The good organizations are in sync. Basically if you let Schoen/Daboll pick there next QB you have to give them 2-3 more years to see it play out...anyone willing to give them that much more rope?

[Gravy]

No I'm saying fire them and let someone else make the decisions if this season goes like how yesterday went. My point is its just not the QB that is the problem, we have decision making issues too. That simply isn't fixed by just drafting a QB.

i agree, we need to get rid of the decision makers too, and let the new ones get a fresh slate with a new QB whoever they choose. they don't have to pick someone from this upcoming draft either if they don't like anyone or they're all gone but hopefully sooner rather than later. it also doesn't mean i'm going to watch daniel jones play for more than 3 games in 2025 either

that absolutely is your right not to watch. I was uninterested in watching much of the 4th qtr.

I mean its football so I will still watch....but I clearly will not be invested in this group or care enough. Just don't f*ck up our draft positioning late in the year like we always do so that when it comes draft day teams are asking to deplete all our draft capital to move up.

I just don't see how you can let Schoen/Daboll get another draft especially one where a QB is likely the pick. What if they have another bad season next year...you fire them after tying them to a future QB...then saddle the new GM and Coach with a QB they didn't choose?

The good organizations are in sync. Basically if you let Schoen/Daboll pick there next QB you have to give them 2-3 more years to see it play out...anyone willing to give them that much more rope?

Right now I would give them the opportunity to get their own QB, they have only been here two years with somebody else's QB and some backups. If the team completely falls apart during this season with no growth from their picks maybe I'll change my mind.

[Ghetto Gospel]

i agree, we need to get rid of the decision makers too, and let the new ones get a fresh slate with a new QB whoever they choose. they don't have to pick someone from this upcoming draft either if they don't like anyone or they're all gone but hopefully sooner rather than later. it also doesn't mean i'm going to watch daniel jones play for more than 3 games in 2025 either

that absolutely is your right not to watch. I was uninterested in watching much of the 4th qtr.

I mean its football so I will still watch....but I clearly will not be invested in this group or care enough. Just don't f*ck up our draft positioning late in the year like we always do so that when it comes draft day teams are asking to deplete all our draft capital to move up.

I just don't see how you can let Schoen/Daboll get another draft especially one where a QB is likely the pick. What if they have another bad season next year...you fire them after tying them to a future QB...then saddle the new GM and Coach with a QB they didn't choose?

The good organizations are in sync. Basically if you let Schoen/Daboll pick there next QB you have to give them 2-3 more years to see it play out...anyone willing to give them that much more rope?

Right now I would give them the opportunity to get their own QB, they have only been here two years with somebody else's QB and some backups. If the team completely falls apart during this season with no growth from their picks maybe I'll change my mind.

by giving daniel jones that deal, they did pick their qb.. don't give him that deal if you don't want him

[mpharris36]

that absolutely is your right not to watch. I was uninterested in watching much of the 4th qtr.

I mean its football so I will still watch....but I clearly will not be invested in this group or care enough. Just don't f*ck up our draft positioning late in the year like we always do so that when it comes draft day teams are asking to deplete all our draft capital to move up.

I just don't see how you can let Schoen/Daboll get another draft especially one where a QB is likely the pick. What if they have another bad season next year...you fire them after tying them to a future QB...then saddle the new GM and Coach with a QB they didn't choose?

The good organizations are in sync. Basically if you let Schoen/Daboll pick there next QB you have to give them 2-3 more years to see it play out...anyone willing to give them that much more rope?

Right now I would give them the opportunity to get their own QB, they have only been here two years with somebody else's QB and some backups. If the team completely falls apart during this season with no growth from their picks maybe I'll change my mind.

by giving daniel jones that deal, they did pick their qb.. don't give him that deal if you don't want him

that I don't 100% necessarily agree with. There are other factors in play. They clearly were going to move on...they didn't pick up his 5th year option. Then they have that surprise year of making the playoffs which probably set the entire organization back by making the playoffs and Daniel Jones having his best career game by winning a road playoff game.

To say you can simply just walk away form that decision easily is not realistic IMO. It is Madden or a video game...you have an owner and fan base to appease and with all the losing they were doing to simply just walk away from your QB with pretty much no realistic replacement isn't a realistic option...clearly now it looks different...at the time however not really.

They also offered a long term deal to Barkley during that good year and he turned it down...which means they could have in theory Franchised Daniel Jones...but by doing that they would have also lost Barkley to a long term deal because he would have held all the cards and already turned down multiple long term offers.

So again the decision wasn't clear cut back then so I wont kill them for that decision.

Its all the other decisions that are piling up for me....Have two top 10 picks and whiff on Neal and KT looks like just a JAG...Banks looks ok but nothing special....and we are just wasting 2-4th round picks where your roster is made in the NFL. You need starters out of those spots and we aren't getting any if all production from those picks.

[Gravy]

that absolutely is your right not to watch. I was uninterested in watching much of the 4th qtr.

I mean its football so I will still watch....but I clearly will not be invested in this group or care enough. Just don't f*ck up our draft positioning late in the year like we always do so that when it comes draft day teams are asking to deplete all our draft capital to move up.

I just don't see how you can let Schoen/Daboll get another draft especially one where a QB is likely the pick. What if they have another bad season next year...you fire them after tying them to a future QB...then saddle the new GM and Coach with a QB they didn't choose?

The good organizations are in sync. Basically if you let Schoen/Daboll pick there next QB you have to give them 2-3 more years to see it play out...anyone willing to give them that much more rope?

Right now I would give them the opportunity to get their own QB, they have only been here two years with somebody else's QB and some backups. If the team completely falls apart during this season with no growth from their picks maybe I'll change my mind.

by giving daniel jones that deal, they did pick their qb.. don't give him that deal if you don't want him

I dont think they had a choice iirc, you cant win your first playoff game in 10 years then tell the team and fans they are going to tank for a new QB
edit: what mpharris said^

[Ghetto Gospel]

Right now I would give them the opportunity to get their own QB, they have only been here two years with somebody else's QB and some backups. If the team completely falls apart during this season with no growth from their picks maybe I'll change my mind.

by giving daniel jones that deal, they did pick their qb.. don't give him that deal if you don't want him

I dont think they had a choice iirc, you cant win your first playoff game in 10 years then tell the team and fans they are going to tank for a new QB

okay, then give him a 1 year deal or franchise him

[Ghetto Gospel]

Right now I would give them the opportunity to get their own QB, they have only been here two years with somebody else's QB and some backups. If the team completely falls apart during this season with no growth from their picks maybe I'll change my mind.

by giving daniel jones that deal, they did pick their qb.. don't give him that deal if you don't want him

that I don't 100% necessarily agree with. There are other factors in play. They clearly were going to move on...they didn't pick up his 5th year option. Then they have that surprise year of making the playoffs which probably set the entire organization back by making the playoffs and Daniel Jones having his best career game by winning a road playoff game.

To say you can simply just walk away form that decision easily is not realistic IMO. It is Madden or a video game...you have an owner and fan base to appease and with all the losing they were doing to simply just walk away from your QB with pretty much no realistic replacement isn't a realistic option...clearly now it looks different...at the time however not really.

They also offered a long term deal to Barkley during that good year and he turned it down...which means they could have in theory Franchised Daniel Jones...but by doing that they would have also lost Barkley to a long term deal because he would have held all the cards and already turned down multiple long term offers.

So again the decision wasn't clear cut back then so I wont kill them for that decision.

Its all the other decisions that are piling up for me....Have two top 10 picks and whiff on Neal and KT looks like just a JAG...Banks looks ok but nothing special....and we are just wasting 2-4th round picks where your roster is made in the NFL. You need starters out of those spots and we aren't getting any if all production from those picks.

we don't need to rehash the daniel jones thing for the 5th time, but yeah it's time to move on from schoen.

it's a shame that david gettleman was able to get us more talent than joe schoen. his terrible draft record is reason enough to move on

[mpharris36]

by giving daniel jones that deal, they did pick their qb.. don't give him that deal if you don't want him

I dont think they had a choice iirc, you cant win your first playoff game in 10 years then tell the team and fans they are going to tank for a new QB

okay, then give him a 1 year deal or franchise him

I don't think you were aware of how bad the cap situation was with Gettleman leaving. Daniel Jones cap hit would have been 32.5 MM by working out the deal Daniel Jones cap hit in year 1 was 15.5 MM basically 17 MM difference.

Basically by franchising Jones at the time you are saying goodbye to Barkley (10 MM), and you can't sign Okereke (5 MM), and you can't trade for Darren Waller (4 MM). At the time those were all seen as really good moves to help bolster a team that just made the playoffs. Otherwise by just franchising Jones you basically have to get a lot worse...again which isn't really a realistic option post a playoff appearance and win.

They also tried to bolster there line that offseason by bringing in glowinski (which was a bad move but they tried to help the OL) and they also tried to bring in a solid backup QB in tyrod taylor with cost another 7 MM. Basically you can't do much of any of that by franchise the QB.

Again looking back at it...making the playoffs and that playoff win that year was the worst thing that possibly could have happened to the Giants...even though at the time I think so many fans were desperate we were riding such a high of that season but it ended up being so bad for the franchise.

[mpharris36]

by giving daniel jones that deal, they did pick their qb.. don't give him that deal if you don't want him

that I don't 100% necessarily agree with. There are other factors in play. They clearly were going to move on...they didn't pick up his 5th year option. Then they have that surprise year of making the playoffs which probably set the entire organization back by making the playoffs and Daniel Jones having his best career game by winning a road playoff game.

To say you can simply just walk away form that decision easily is not realistic IMO. It is Madden or a video game...you have an owner and fan base to appease and with all the losing they were doing to simply just walk away from your QB with pretty much no realistic replacement isn't a realistic option...clearly now it looks different...at the time however not really.

They also offered a long term deal to Barkley during that good year and he turned it down...which means they could have in theory Franchised Daniel Jones...but by doing that they would have also lost Barkley to a long term deal because he would have held all the cards and already turned down multiple long term offers.

So again the decision wasn't clear cut back then so I wont kill them for that decision.

Its all the other decisions that are piling up for me....Have two top 10 picks and whiff on Neal and KT looks like just a JAG...Banks looks ok but nothing special....and we are just wasting 2-4th round picks where your roster is made in the NFL. You need starters out of those spots and we aren't getting any if all production from those picks.

we don't need to rehash the daniel jones thing for the 5th time, but yeah it's time to move on from schoen.

it's a shame that david gettleman was able to get us more talent than joe schoen. his terrible draft record is reason enough to move on

we certainly have a couple more franchise players from Gettleman like Thomas and Lawerence but man he was a horrible drafter...Barkley at #2 when we had a huge offer to trade back (broncos looking for Darnold) is probably the worst decision a GM can make...lmalpractice (he didn't even pick up the phone to hear the offer)...Kadarious Toney trade back and passing on Micah Parsons...

I really would credit Gettleman at all...then you factor what he left with our cap situation with the likes of Kenny Golladay and the horrendous Oline play....sure we ahve AT and Sexy Dexy but that is pretty much it...now that isn't saying anything about Schoen. Nabers looks like a keeper...but outside of that its aint looking pretty.

[Knicksfan1992]

I dont think they had a choice iirc, you cant win your first playoff game in 10 years then tell the team and fans they are going to tank for a new QB

okay, then give him a 1 year deal or franchise him

I don't think you were aware of how bad the cap situation was with Gettleman leaving. Daniel Jones cap hit would have been 32.5 MM by working out the deal Daniel Jones cap hit in year 1 was 15.5 MM basically 17 MM difference.

Basically by franchising Jones at the time you are saying goodbye to Barkley (10 MM), and you can't sign Okereke (5 MM), and you can't trade for Darren Waller (4 MM). At the time those were all seen as really good moves to help bolster a team that just made the playoffs. Otherwise by just franchising Jones you basically have to get a lot worse...again which isn't really a realistic option post a playoff appearance and win.

They also tried to bolster there line that offseason by bringing in glowinski (which was a bad move but they tried to help the OL) and they also tried to bring in a solid backup QB in tyrod taylor with cost another 7 MM. Basically you can't do much of any of that by franchise the QB.

Again looking back at it...making the playoffs and that playoff win that year was the worst thing that possibly could have happened to the Giants...even though at the time I think so many fans were desperate we were riding such a high of that season but it ended up being so bad for the franchise.

Jets had a similar situation with Fitz and were basically paying for that mistake for YEARS after Fitz had left. Anybody with any sort of foresight knew Fitz wasn't a long term answer (also he was probably the actual reason they didn't end up making the playoffs that year )

Then they let Geno walk out the door who could have been the long term starting QB had the organization shown any sort of patience...Instead they let a contract saga with Fitz (of all people to have a contract standoff with) drag into the offseason just to have him go 3-8 as a starter the following year when Decker got hurt and the receiving corps wasn't elite enough to carry his turnover machine azz again. I'm still annoyed by it to this day

[Ghetto Gospel]

that I don't 100% necessarily agree with. There are other factors in play. They clearly were going to move on...they didn't pick up his 5th year option. Then they have that surprise year of making the playoffs which probably set the entire organization back by making the playoffs and Daniel Jones having his best career game by winning a road playoff game.

To say you can simply just walk away form that decision easily is not realistic IMO. It is Madden or a video game...you have an owner and fan base to appease and with all the losing they were doing to simply just walk away from your QB with pretty much no realistic replacement isn't a realistic option...clearly now it looks different...at the time however not really.

They also offered a long term deal to Barkley during that good year and he turned it down...which means they could have in theory Franchised Daniel Jones...but by doing that they would have also lost Barkley to a long term deal because he would have held all the cards and already turned down multiple long term offers.

So again the decision wasn't clear cut back then so I wont kill them for that decision.

Its all the other decisions that are piling up for me....Have two top 10 picks and whiff on Neal and KT looks like just a JAG...Banks looks ok but nothing special....and we are just wasting 2-4th round picks where your roster is made in the NFL. You need starters out of those spots and we aren't getting any if all production from those picks.

we don't need to rehash the daniel jones thing for the 5th time, but yeah it's time to move on from schoen.

it's a shame that david gettleman was able to get us more talent than joe schoen. his terrible draft record is reason enough to move on

we certainly have a couple more franchise players from Gettleman like Thomas and Lawerence but man he was a horrible drafter...Barkley at #2 when we had a huge offer to trade back (broncos looking for Darnold) is probably the worst decision a GM can make...lmalpractice (he didn't even pick up the phone to hear the offer)...Kadarious Toney trade back and passing on Micah Parsons...

I really would credit Gettleman at all...then you factor what he left with our cap situation with the likes of Kenny Golladay and the horrendous Oline play....sure we ahve AT and Sexy Dexy but that is pretty much it...now that isn't saying anything about Schoen. Nabers looks like a keeper...but outside of that its aint looking pretty.

yeah gettleman was horrible but schoen was looking worse. at least barkley was a real player and so was mckinney, julian love. schoen has gotten us...?

i think the cowboys got really fcking lucky with micah parsons. they didn't even scout him to be an edge. they had him plugged in as a MLB which he played all throughout college until demarcus lawrence got hurt, then they decided to just try him out there.

regardless, we're gonna look back at the 2022 schoen draft and say he passed on some guys too at 5 and 7. it is what it is.

[MrDollarBills]

I give up. This entire thread is basically an indictment. Like I was against wanting to start firing people, but this is really bad.

Just give Bellichek his money and get it over with because it's obvious where this is headed.

[mpharris36]

we don't need to rehash the daniel jones thing for the 5th time, but yeah it's time to move on from schoen.

it's a shame that david gettleman was able to get us more talent than joe schoen. his terrible draft record is reason enough to move on

we certainly have a couple more franchise players from Gettleman like Thomas and Lawerence but man he was a horrible drafter...Barkley at #2 when we had a huge offer to trade back (broncos looking for Darnold) is probably the worst decision a GM can make...lmalpractice (he didn't even pick up the phone to hear the offer)...Kadarious Toney trade back and passing on Micah Parsons...

I really would credit Gettleman at all...then you factor what he left with our cap situation with the likes of Kenny Golladay and the horrendous Oline play....sure we ahve AT and Sexy Dexy but that is pretty much it...now that isn't saying anything about Schoen. Nabers looks like a keeper...but outside of that its aint looking pretty.

yeah gettleman was horrible but schoen was looking worse. at least barkley was a real player and so was mckinney, julian love. schoen has gotten us...?

i think the cowboys got really fcking lucky with micah parsons. they didn't even scout him to be an edge. they had him plugged in as a MLB which he played all throughout college until demarcus lawrence got hurt, then they decided to just try him out there.

regardless, we're gonna look back at the 2022 schoen draft and say he passed on some guys too at 5 and 7. it is what it is.

Most people also thought we nailed that 2022 draft too Neal was thought to be a sure fire 10+ year NFL lineman. And KT before the season some people had going #1 overall. I think the Giants really wanted Sauce Gardner because he would have been perfect for our defense at the time under wink...

But that is just the way of the NFL...even if the fans and media at the time love the pick its still on the GM resume.

Personally I don't think Schoen has done a worst job that Getty for a few reasons. He strongly values positional value which I think is important and modern...yes the results are there but I agree with not paying RB's and safeties so I don't mind him sticking to his guns on the Barkley and McKinney decisions...just because they are doing well in another situation doesn't mean it was the wrong decision to walk away from them.

I will really evaluate the oline all year...schoen said he really wanted to improve there...yesterday was an ok performance from the line...nothing crazy but nothing awful (which for the giants is kinda plus).

I also think he has modernized the giants...Getty was using draft binders and refused to even pick up trade phone calls...at least Schoen works and evaluates all the moves...now maybe that is why I have some blinders on because its nice to not have a dinosaur GMing...and Schoen didn't have connection to Mara...but right now Schoen deserves to take some heat especially if this situation goes south...this would be his 3rd draft class to improve the team...at some point we gotta start seeing some results and production from his classes.

[MrDollarBills]

[Deeeez Knicks]

Sacks are also a QB stat. Jones is just awful man. Dude brings the rest of the roster down. Not saying we are good, but it almost makes it impossible to evaluate other things properly when the QB is this bad.