Trades and Transactions thread cont - post Mikal trade

[mpharris36]

You guys are making Kessler sound too good to be true.

in terms of a plug and play center that fits what we like to do he couldn't be more ideal...factor in his cheap salary that we can fit also not many other more "ideal" targets.

He has his flaws...not a good FT shooter and doesn't provide much if any spacing. Less of a playmaker than Ihart for sure out of the short roll. He also isn't going to be guarding the perimeter but we already have multiple elite perimeter defenders for that.

In terms of rim protection there aren't many better.

They are over hyping him.

He’s a back up rim protecting Center. He might not even beat Sims out as the backup Center, but as a center rotation Mitch/Sims/Kessler would be a good bounce back from losing IHart.

Kessler not beat out Sims? I hope that is not what you are trying to say Please tell me I'm reading that wrong.

[mpharris36]

Nikola Vucevic would actually be a great fit if he was open to coming off the bench as a 6th man but he makes too much money away so the point is moot

he also can't defend so not a good fit

I get it but we need some offense at the center position.

I like Kessler but re-thinking it now - the center position would be manned by 2 guys who don't move the ball and don't really do much on offense. Kessler is a better offensive player than Mitch but otherwise they both clog the paint.

What we need is a guy who can space the floor on offense. A decent shooter at backup PF/C. Not unlike our guy Luke Kornet.

Not every team has great defenders at all 5 positions down the roster. Some bad individual defenders can be masked in a great team defense.

We really don't with Randle back we don't need offense at our center position. We have Bunson/Randle/Mikal/OG/DD/Hart to do most of the scoring and playmaking. We need our centers to defend the paint and rebound.

[R-DAWG]

Kessler makes sense in a lot of ways here. A lot. He has potential to be an even BETTER fit to Thibs system than IHART was. IHart might get more burn offensively in his role with the Thunder than here.

Him being CAA is likely quite advantageous as well.

The only real issue I see is not having anything of real value to offer to Utah. All it takes is another team to offer a 1st rd pick with a higher probability of conveying that what we own. Welcome to the post Bridges trade reality of the Knicks trade options.

If we moved Duece in a trade he would easily bring back at least one 1st round pick if not more...if Utah doesn't want him and just wants picks I'm sure we can accommodate. For example DEN I'm sure Denver would die for a POA defender and 3 pt shooter on that salary like Duece...any contending team could plug duece into there rotation right now.

Denver only has one trade eligible 1st rd pick. I'm happy to drive Duce to the airport if Denver is willing to give us their 2031 unprotected 1st. I just doubt that they will.

I'm sure contending teams would love Duce, just not at the cost of a 1st rd pick.

[mpharris36]

Not sure how much interest utah will have in Deuce though. They already have Keyonte George and just drafted Isaiah collier who they were reportedly willing to trade up for. Also still have sexton, Clarkson

non of those guys are really off ball defensive guards tho. Keyonte has the ball in his hands a lot...collier is a on ball guard. Sexton is as well. Clarkson I don't see long in Utah either.

Also most of those guys outside of Sexton don't really have reliable jump shots right now.

But for whatever reason if they don't want Duece...you can find a 3rd team to offer them picks package or another player they may want. I have to believe duece and his contract are a pretty coveted asset right now.

[mpharris36]

The only real issue I see is not having anything of real value to offer to Utah. All it takes is another team to offer a 1st rd pick with a higher probability of conveying that what we own. Welcome to the post Bridges trade reality of the Knicks trade options.

If we moved Duece in a trade he would easily bring back at least one 1st round pick if not more...if Utah doesn't want him and just wants picks I'm sure we can accommodate. For example DEN I'm sure Denver would die for a POA defender and 3 pt shooter on that salary like Duece...any contending team could plug duece into there rotation right now.

Denver only has one trade eligible 1st rd pick. I'm happy to drive Duce to the airport if Denver is willing to give us their 2031 unprotected 1st. I just doubt that they will.

I'm sure contending teams would love Duce, just not at the cost of a 1st rd pick.

how would duece not warrant a first round pick? There is no one in the late first round you can get even close to Duece impact...he was an impactful playoff performer on that contract...3 years from now he will be making less then 4 MM and he is rotational piece on a playoff team. Especially with the aprons...cheap controllable contracts are even more valuable then they ever have been.

He easily is worth a 1st round pick value...its not even debatable.

[G_K_F]

he also can't defend so not a good fit

I get it but we need some offense at the center position.

I like Kessler but re-thinking it now - the center position would be manned by 2 guys who don't move the ball and don't really do much on offense. Kessler is a better offensive player than Mitch but otherwise they both clog the paint.

What we need is a guy who can space the floor on offense. A decent shooter at backup PF/C. Not unlike our guy Luke Kornet.

Not every team has great defenders at all 5 positions down the roster. Some bad individual defenders can be masked in a great team defense.

We really don't with Randle back we don't need offense at our center position. We have Bunson/Randle/Mikal/OG/DD/Hart to do most of the scoring and playmaking. We need our centers to defend the paint and rebound.

Mitch/Randle historically has been a weird and clunky fit due to Mitch's lack of offense. It's why the team played its best basketball with a center that moved the ball and was a danger to at least score on the floor with his floater like Hartenstein.

We've seen the sample size with Mitch vs. Hartenstein paired with Randle. There's a clear difference in the offense between the two. It even opened up Brunson's game more and elevated him into elite status.

Having both our centers provide no offensive threat or floor spacing will lead to a more stagnant and meandering offense that we saw earlier in the season last year.

[FrozenEnvelope]

Maybe it's just me but I rather have Precious and Deuce over Kessler and Lowry.

[mpharris36]

Maybe it's just me but I rather have Precious and Deuce over Kessler and Lowry.

so one injury to Mitch and you are comfortable with Precious starting a playoff game?

[El Poochio]

Why would Jazz be interested in Deuce when they are rebuilding, just give them more picks

[R-DAWG]

If we moved Duece in a trade he would easily bring back at least one 1st round pick if not more...if Utah doesn't want him and just wants picks I'm sure we can accommodate. For example DEN I'm sure Denver would die for a POA defender and 3 pt shooter on that salary like Duece...any contending team could plug duece into there rotation right now.

Denver only has one trade eligible 1st rd pick. I'm happy to drive Duce to the airport if Denver is willing to give us their 2031 unprotected 1st. I just doubt that they will.

I'm sure contending teams would love Duce, just not at the cost of a 1st rd pick.

how would duece not warrant a first round pick? There is no one in the late first round you can get even close to Duece impact...he was an impactful playoff performer on that contract...3 years from now he will be making less then 4 MM and he is rotational piece on a playoff team. Especially with the aprons...cheap controllable contracts are even more valuable then they ever have been.

He easily is worth a 1st round pick value...its not even debatable.

Because most teams don't just throw 1st rd picks for roll players. Most win now teams are in pick debt and they are not willing to throw future, unprotected picks at guys with a ceiling of being an 8th man.

We all love Duce and he was awesome last year, but call a spade and spade. He's an undersized SG who's suited for a low usage role. Watch the games. Look at how the offense slowed down and had no fluidity when Duce was running point as opposed to Brunson.

Just because the Knicks paid 300 cents on the dollar for Mikal Bridges doesn't mean every team is going to do the same thing.

But frankly, if Duce had that kind of value, I would be packing him and Josh Hart for Jarrett Allen (need Hart's contract to make it work under the apron).

[KnixinSix]

Oh and BTW Dadiet just coincidentally had a pre draft visit with the Jazz.

3 team deal with Nets and Jazz

Dadiet and McBride and all those picks get traded to in some form to Nets and Jazz for Kessler and Bridges while satisfying the cap rules of the CBA to minimize our restrictions against the 1st or 2nd Apron.

Kessler (32), Mitch (16)
Randle (30), Bridges (5), OG(5), Hart (8)
OG(25), Bridges (12), Hart (11)
Bridges(15), DDV(25), Hart(8)
Brunson (32), Mclaughlin or Lowry (10), Kolek (6)

Thibs system near ideal 'dream team'

-2 elite rim protectors
-A bully PF that commands double and triple teams
-3 absolute elite defensive wings in OG, Bridges and Hart
-4 guys capable of spacing with 40% or near 40% 3 ball potential (OG, Bridges, Brunson, DDV)
- Strong rebounders at positions 2 to 5
- High IQ players for defensive switching and less mismatches during switch offs in a possession

[FrozenEnvelope]

Maybe it's just me but I rather have Precious and Deuce over Kessler and Lowry.

so one injury to Mitch and you are comfortable with Precious starting a playoff game?

Good point but if Mitch isn't healthy we aren't winning a series anyway. I do like Precious and his versatility over Kessler who is kind of a stiff but I haven't watched him much since college.

[WargamesX]

Oh and BTW Dadiet just coincidentally had a pre draft visit with the Jazz.

3 team deal with Nets and Jazz

Dadiet and McBride and all those picks get traded to in some form to Nets and Jazz for Kessler and Bridges while satisfying the cap rules of the CBA to minimize our restrictions against the 1st or 2nd Apron.

Horrible trade. Keep Dadiet.

[mpharris36]

Maybe it's just me but I rather have Precious and Deuce over Kessler and Lowry.

so one injury to Mitch and you are comfortable with Precious starting a playoff game?

Good point but if Mitch isn't healthy we aren't winning a series anyway. I do like Precious and his versatility over Kessler who is kind of a stiff but I haven't watched him much since college.

If you had Kessler and then Precious as a 3rd string we could easily still win a series. Thats the ultimate point of the trade...Kessler would be a backup but easily could fill in as a starter for Mitch if needed and might even surpass him down the road.

[FrozenEnvelope]

Oh and BTW Dadiet just coincidentally had a pre draft visit with the Jazz.

3 team deal with Nets and Jazz

Dadiet and McBride and all those picks get traded to in some form to Nets and Jazz for Kessler and Bridges while satisfying the cap rules of the CBA to minimize our restrictions against the 1st or 2nd Apron.

Kessler (32), Mitch (16)
Randle (30), Bridges (5), OG(5), Hart (8)
OG(25), Bridges (12), Hart (11)
Bridges(15), DDV(25), Hart(8)
Brunson (32), Mclaughlin or Lowry (10), Kolek (6)

Deuce, Dadiet and picks for Kessler?

Nah I'm good.

[mpharris36]

Oh and BTW Dadiet just coincidentally had a pre draft visit with the Jazz.

3 team deal with Nets and Jazz

Dadiet and McBride and all those picks get traded to in some form to Nets and Jazz for Kessler and Bridges while satisfying the cap rules of the CBA to minimize our restrictions against the 1st or 2nd Apron.

Horrible trade. Keep Dadiet.

we are trying to win a chip...I would love to develop a late 1st round 19 year old but he isn't helping us win a chip in the next couple years. If thats what it takes I would do it.

[mpharris36]

Oh and BTW Dadiet just coincidentally had a pre draft visit with the Jazz.

3 team deal with Nets and Jazz

Dadiet and McBride and all those picks get traded to in some form to Nets and Jazz for Kessler and Bridges while satisfying the cap rules of the CBA to minimize our restrictions against the 1st or 2nd Apron.

Kessler (32), Mitch (16)
Randle (30), Bridges (5), OG(5), Hart (8)
OG(25), Bridges (12), Hart (11)
Bridges(15), DDV(25), Hart(8)
Brunson (32), Mclaughlin or Lowry (10), Kolek (6)

Deuce, Dadiet and picks for Kessler?

Nah I'm good.

no he is saying those picks meaning the mikal trade just expanding it to 3 teams

[sol537]

Maybe it's just me but I rather have Precious and Deuce over Kessler and Lowry.

so one injury to Mitch and you are comfortable with Precious starting a playoff game?

Good point but if Mitch isn't healthy we aren't winning a series anyway. I do like Precious and his versatility over Kessler who is kind of a stiff but I haven't watched him much since college.

How about Kessler, Precious (via Bird Rights), and Lowry (or McLoughlin) over just Deuce...?

[WargamesX]

If we moved Duece in a trade he would easily bring back at least one 1st round pick if not more...if Utah doesn't want him and just wants picks I'm sure we can accommodate. For example DEN I'm sure Denver would die for a POA defender and 3 pt shooter on that salary like Duece...any contending team could plug duece into there rotation right now.

Denver only has one trade eligible 1st rd pick. I'm happy to drive Duce to the airport if Denver is willing to give us their 2031 unprotected 1st. I just doubt that they will.

I'm sure contending teams would love Duce, just not at the cost of a 1st rd pick.

how would duece not warrant a first round pick? There is no one in the late first round you can get even close to Duece impact...he was an impactful playoff performer on that contract...3 years from now he will be making less then 4 MM and he is rotational piece on a playoff team. Especially with the aprons...cheap controllable contracts are even more valuable then they ever have been.

He easily is worth a 1st round pick value...its not even debatable.

Yes I am. As much as Sims is a struggle sometimes. Kessler is a rotation level rim running big. He’s not bringing a skill or talent that puts him automatically above Sims on the depth chart.

[WargamesX]

Oh and BTW Dadiet just coincidentally had a pre draft visit with the Jazz.

3 team deal with Nets and Jazz

Dadiet and McBride and all those picks get traded to in some form to Nets and Jazz for Kessler and Bridges while satisfying the cap rules of the CBA to minimize our restrictions against the 1st or 2nd Apron.

Horrible trade. Keep Dadiet.

we are trying to win a chip...I would love to develop a late 1st round 19 year old but he isn't helping us win a chip in the next couple years. If thats what it takes I would do it.

If you trade that kid what else is there to trade beside a key rotational piece if we need to pivot. This is like when people kept saying Deuce and Bojan need to go out to get Mikal. You got to hold onto something for a rainy day and future trades.