Oscirus wrote:stuporman wrote:Oscirus wrote:Polling also shows that biden shouldve smoked trump and that half the **** that the conservatives did is unpopular across america, yet they're still doing relatively well in elections. It's time for us to stop relying on polls to make decisions.
This is been demonstrated by polling year after year ever since Sanders brought it to the public conversation more than 4 years ago as strongly as he did, this isn't just one particular election poll about partisan candidates that you can hand wave away. It's shown repeatedly no matter how badly the question is framed.
Your shuck and jive 'we can't believe polls anymore' argument is as empty as the excuses against the policies people want. If the establishment dems continue to do nothing for the people get ready for Don Jr in 2024 because establishment dems really do suck. Don't let this one race fool you and it actually should serve notice how they need to change.
If thats the case then why arent we talking about president Bernie right now? We keep hearing how all these policies are popular yet the obvious people to implement said policies dont get voted in. One can only blame the media and the establishment so much before one starts looking elsewhere. These last two presidential elections are proof that polling procedures have to be looked at. Something is seriously off, if progressive policies are popular yet the conservatives who call such policies evil socialist policies continue to be elected.
Wow, you are just going down the centrist dialog tree right out of their script. Bernie was on his way to being the nom if the establishment dems didn't pull them most unprecedented primary maneuver. Days before the SC primary every centrist candidate dropped out and endorsed Biden with the only one remaining was Warren to split some of the progressive vote.
This gave Biden a win and momentum into super tuesday which combined with negative media spin and the dems ability to suppress the vote in their own primaries that they have been using for decades to keep progressive out it worked in keeping Bernie, an Independent, from winning. Showing how much harder centrists fight left than they do right because they rarely fight that hard against the GOP.
Bernie was too soon, progressives hadn't gained enough of a coalition yet so his meteoric run showed the popularity of the policies but without the base in the party to get the support from it. Since then many more progressives, Justice Democrats, have won seats in federal offices and even in state and local so maybe in another few years the block they are building will be strong enough to make the establishment listen but right now they are still fighting them.
Republicans call everyone who isn't them socialists and communists but don't let them create the narrative. The GOP will not support a dem no matter what....Obamacare was actually Romneycare that was devised by a conservative think tank. They even hate their own ideas if it's a dem who is doing it so don't let them make your choices for you.
Their rabid base won't support dems either so don't try to change policy or rhetoric for them. Do what is necessary to get those policies that help people and the people will eventually recognize that and support it. If the establishment dems do nothing to help people then it shouldn't surprise you when they vote for someone else and that's how Trump got elected.
I don't think we should be afraid of the socialist word and run from it because then the story becomes about the label and the dems are constantly fighting the perception of it taking all the focus off the policies and onto a bullisht word. Even if one chooses not to use the word they need to explain the policies simply in bite sized ways to appeal to low info voters which most are.
As an example they need to say things about the public option that it gives Americans more choice free from the profit seeking corporate executive death panels. When the response comes back 'government controlled health care bad' the reply should be it's the same private health care providers not government run, just free from insurance companies blocking your choice of treatment and doctors.
The GOP will still try to obscure the truth but the message needs to be simple and repetitive to overcome it. Of course, if centrists don't even want to fight for those policies then it won't happen and they will lose any of the power they have gained this election cycle because people don't want excuses, they need help in a system that is constantly kicking them down.
There needs to be a sense of ruthlessness in governing the dems have to do to get some of these things going as soon as possible and publicly call out those who are standing in the way of them getting done. So either they will bend and give in to public scrutiny or they could be in jeopardy of losing their seat in 2022. It has to be an imperative to get things done not just make excuses.
When people start to see and feel the positive effects of those policies they will trust the next step and next policy that is offered up and more strongly support those who support the policies. The GOP will frame it as they will always do but at that point their message will have lost it teeth. It starts with a few small policy steps that can be made relatively quickly.
If you are worried about the word socialist and spend all your time fighting that they have won already. You let them frame the debate the label and it isn't on policy to help people. The policy shouldn't be long wonky explanations, it needs to be short and concise the way Bernie was framing it. He was just too soon and to be honest, not telegenic enough, the next wave of progressives should solve the latter if they can master the former of his traits.
