[Camelo Thread Part 11] - Knicks make offer? Pg 82

Context · Post #981 » by **Context** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:40 pm

It amazes me what type of anti-Knick arguments people create when it looks like our team will be on the receiving end of something positive.

#1 pick · Post #982 » by **#1 pick** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:41 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
seren wrote:40 million seems to be the new lie. BSPN writers have been pimping Melo to NJ hard.

Well put I must say. The new lie is that Melo will lose 40M. Since he killed the Nets deal, they're stepping up the pressure. Actually we're hearing $40M to $60M.

So absurd it's not even laughable.

I’d be be pretty surprised if he’d lose anything more than $4M.

I repeat: The NBA is not going to have Rudy Gay making $18M and Melo making $11M. Never going to happen. Not in a million years. The league is all about seniority and an equitable structure.

And it would essentially be rewarding guys like lebron for giving his team one less year so he could jump ship. They won't reward that.

Truthfully, I’d be shocked to see Melo making anything less than about $1M less per year and I that is a stretch honestly because it means he’s making $6M less over the life of a deal. That’s $6M that the league cannot justify. If the NBA hits a homerun, they will lower everybody’s salary (existing contracts too) but you can bet every last dollar that the structure will be balanced across the board.

Pretty incredible that full-time NBA writers don’t understand this about the league. They’re legalistic, which is the opposite of punitive.

The league is made of lawyers who are rules-based and heavily focused on fairness and running a tight ship. They will NOT (in a zillion years) preside over a heavily imbalanced salary structure.

The truest thing written in this thread. This whole new CBA being bad for the players is a myth.

knicks9784 · Post #983 » by **knicks9784** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:43 pm

#1 pick wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:
seren wrote:40 million seems to be the new lie. BSPN writers have been pimping Melo to NJ hard.

Well put I must say. The new lie is that Melo will lose 40M. Since he killed the Nets deal, they're stepping up the pressure. Actually we're hearing $40M to $60M.

So absurd it's not even laughable.

I’d be be pretty surprised if he’d lose anything more than $4M.

I repeat: The NBA is not going to have Rudy Gay making $18M and Melo making $11M. Never going to happen. Not in a million years. The league is all about seniority and an equitable structure.

And it would essentially be rewarding guys like lebron for giving his team one less year so he could jump ship. They won't reward that.

Truthfully, I’d be shocked to see Melo making anything less than about $1M less per year and I that is a stretch honestly because it means he’s making $6M less over the life of a deal. That’s $6M that the league cannot justify. If the NBA hits a homerun, they will lower everybody’s salary (existing contracts too) but you can bet every last dollar that the structure will be balanced across the board.

Pretty incredible that full-time NBA writers don’t understand this about the league. They’re legalistic, which is the opposite of punitive.

The league is made of lawyers who are rules-based and heavily focused on fairness and running a tight ship. They will NOT (in a zillion years) preside over a heavily imbalanced salary structure.

The truest thing written in this thread. This whole new CBA being bad for the players is a myth.

absolutely, these writers act like the players dont have a union

stuporman · Post #984 » by **stuporman** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:06 pm

Knicks fans are going to have to come to grips with losing Fields if they hope to trade for Melo. He is perfect next to those guys blah blah yes I know. It kills me to think he'll blossom into a near all star caliber player not with the NYK but the reality is he's the coveted player that will be the piece that tips the value to their offer.

Even if the Nets are out of it the Knicks are going to have to beat the rental market. At first Walsh would push as much as he can on the table as far as picks to price out the rental market. I don't think many teams will offer two first rounders of any kind for a rental. The Knicks will be a team who can offer two 1sts, two 2nds since they know he'll sign with them.

Then he can offer talent in up to 2 or even 3 talents with cheap contracts. Again that would be a cut above most other teams offers in a rental mindset. This could keep them squarely in play value wise. Couple that with a willingness to take at least some salary on and they are still able to stay as the ample offer.

Then to seal it at the last moment the Knicks will relent on the coveted prospect Fields if Denver agree to do the trade and the deal is done the day of the deadline. The Knicks likely will be the one who offers that much since the Nets have gone.

My only thought is that the Russian at the last second slide in to do the deal with no signed extension in hopes to woo Melo after a deal. He'll take the gamble in hopes that with months of being in Melo's ear he can make it happen.

Knicks fans are going to have to realize Fields is the sacrificial lamb in this situation. It sucks, he's a favorite of mine, too. I just think the Knicks will wind up having the best pick/saving package and then he'll be the 'topper' that is conceded as the last thing to trigger a deal between the two teams.

If he gets to stay, I'm stoked for sure. I hope in the end he won't be needed to deal the deal but I am prepared to deal with the alternative.

seren · Post #985 » by **seren** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:09 pm

Not only the rental market, but we also have to beat the FA market. Whatever the new CBA is, it will always be the case that players will get more (either in years, in salary etc.) through S&T rather than FA market. We will have to lose Chandler, find a taker for Turiaf and probably unload the pick at the very least. Plus Denver will still be looking for compensation in a S&T.

Knicks_Fan2 · Post #986 » by **Knicks_Fan2** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:09 pm

stuporman wrote:Knicks fans are going to have to come to grips with losing Fields if they hope to trade for Melo. He is perfect next to those guys blah blah yes I know. It kills me to think he'll blossom into a near all star caliber player not with the NYK but the reality is he's the coveted player that will be the piece that tips the value to their offer.

Even if the Nets are out of it the Knicks are going to have to beat the rental market. At first Walsh would push as much as he can on the table as far as picks to price out the rental market. I don't think many teams will offer two first rounders of any kind for a rental. The Knicks will be a team who can offer two 1sts, two 2nds since they know he'll sign with them.

Then he can offer talent in up to 2 or even 3 talents with cheap contracts. Again that would be a cut above most other teams offers in a rental mindset. This could keep them squarely in play value wise. Couple that with a willingness to take at least some salary on and they are still able to stay as the ample offer.

Then to seal it at the last moment the Knicks will relent on the coveted prospect Fields if Denver agree to do the trade and the deal is done the day of the deadline. The Knicks likely will be the one who offers that much since the Nets have gone.

My only thought is that the Russian at the last second slide in to do the deal with no signed extension in hopes to woo Melo after a deal. He'll take the gamble in hopes that with months of being in Melo's ear he can make it happen.

Knicks fans are going to have to realize Fields is the sacrificial lamb in this situation. It sucks, he's a favorite of mine, too. I just think the Knicks will wind up having the best pick/saving package and then he'll be the 'topper' that is conceded as the last thing to trigger a deal between the two teams.

If he gets to stay, I'm stoked for sure. I hope in the end he won't be needed to deal the deal but I am prepared to deal with the alternative.

Cosign so long as we can keep either chandler or gallo.

Post #987 » by **GONYK** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:11 pm

stuporman wrote:Knicks fans are going to have to come to grips with losing Fields if they hope to trade for Melo. He is perfect next to those guys blah blah yes I know. It kills me to think he'll blossom into a near all star caliber player not with the NYK but the reality is he's the coveted player that will be the piece that tips the value to their offer.

They can have Fields, as long as it's only Fields.

Post #988 » by **knicks742** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:18 pm

stuporman wrote:Knicks fans are going to have to come to grips with losing Fields if they hope to trade for Melo. He is perfect next to those guys blah blah yes I know. It kills me to think he'll blossom into a near all star caliber player not with the NYK but the reality is he's the coveted player that will be the piece that tips the value to their offer.

Even if the Nets are out of it the Knicks are going to have to beat the rental market. At first Walsh would push as much as he can on the table as far as picks to price out the rental market. I don't think many teams will offer two first rounders of any kind for a rental. The Knicks will be a team who can offer two 1sts, two 2nds since they know he'll sign with them.

Then he can offer talent in up to 2 or even 3 talents with cheap contracts. Again that would be a cut above most other teams offers in a rental mindset. This could keep them squarely in play value wise. Couple that with a willingness to take at least some salary on and they are still able to stay as the ample offer.

Then to seal it at the last moment the Knicks will relent on the coveted prospect Fields if Denver agree to do the trade and the deal is done the day of the deadline. The Knicks likely will be the one who offers that much since the Nets have gone.

My only thought is that the Russian at the last second slide in to do the deal with no signed extension in hopes to woo Melo after a deal. He'll take the gamble in hopes that with months of being in Melo's ear he can make it happen.

Knicks fans are going to have to realize Fields is the sacrificial lamb in this situation. It sucks, he's a favorite of mine, too. I just think the Knicks will wind up having the best pick/saving package and then he'll be the 'topper' that is conceded as the last thing to trigger a deal between the two teams.

If he gets to stay, I'm stoked for sure. I hope in the end he won't be needed to deal the deal but I am prepared to deal with the alternative.

I think most of us are ok with one of Fields, Gallo, or Chandler. As long as we keep two out of the three, its a winning deal and that will be the goal when Donnie goes in and negotiates with them. Even Donnie made that clear when he said late last year or earlier thsi year that Fields is not a throw in to any deal and that he would only trade him as part of acquiring a major player.

vallen · Post #989 » by **vallen** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:22 pm

does anyone here actually know why the NBA is going on strike?? If it was to leave things the same, it wouldnt be happening.

The NBA and its Owners want to pay as low a salary as possible, and supposedly have proof that only a handful of Teams are turning a profit.

The Players and the Union will always be as greedy as possible and push for max contracts.

If the NBA can prove they are not turning a complete profit, Billy Hunter and the Players union will eventually, after a long legal battle, have no choice but to reduce salary's across the board.

And might I add that every True Knick Fan who was here suffering the past 10+ years knows how badly these past contracts can cripple a team !!!! Every True Knick Fan should be rooting for Salary Reductions and especially Non-guaranteed Contracts. I want Melo but not at the cost of selling the soul of my team yet again.

3 Reasons why !!!

1. Alan Houston
2. Stephon Marbury
3. Eddy Curry

The NBA and its Owners are also asking for salary reductions on existing contracts as well as new ones. They certainly arent worried about what Rudy Gay makes as opposed to what Melo makes. Or Eddy Curry apparently. They want them all to take Pay Cuts.

And what gives the Players Union the best chance of winning the battle against salary reductions. The ones with Guaranteed Contracts ? Or the ones without any Contracts ??

Post #990 » by **GONYK** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:23 pm

The NBA has been turning in record profits

Knicks_Fan2 · Post #991 » by **Knicks_Fan2** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:27 pm

This year has been a boon for the league and I highly doubt ANY regular season games will go down next year.

seren · Post #992 » by **seren** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:29 pm

vallen wrote::lol: does anyone here actually know why the NBA is going on strike?? If it was to leave things the same, it wouldnt be happening.

Where did you get this information? First of all, there is no strike. There never will be. I guess you meant lockout. That will certainly not happen. Have you ever heard about a league named NHL? Yeah, me either. They had the lockout. Nobody cares about them anymore. Owners (at least some) want to play hard ball. But it takes years to recover from a lockout. They simply will not do that.

Context · Post #993 » by **Context** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:31 pm

The only concern here IMO is if Denver decides to keep Melo past the deadline. That's it!
The Nets are out. Read all of the quotes from Prov and King. He is not going back on that. He would lose all credibility from his players and future free agents. It's just not worth it at this point for the Nets. UNLESS Melo wants to play there and we know that he doesn't!

That leaves them with the rental market. Which is just part of that equation... Why? because teams that would rent him would have to believe that with his addition it gives them a chance to CONTEND for a championship. How many of those teams REALISTICALLY exist? Especially when you factor in that if they are on the west Denver would be a foolish to trade him there. For starters, their fan base would be pissed. And of the teams that become "contenders" where are their 2011 picks going to fall on the draft? In the best case scenario not much higher than ours. That makes us competitive on picks. And these so called teams that become contenders how much NBA ready young talent can they give back without reducing their chances of contending with Melo? Again, best case? two players. And finally how many of those teams have the "expiring salary" and additional savings that is needed to be competitive with our offer? Not many...

Sum it all up and put it into context... One of our young players, Curry, Azu(3mill in savings), two #1 and made Smith or Balkman and we have a deal...

kingmalaki · Post #994 » by **kingmalaki** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:45 pm

kneega wrote:The only concern here IMO is if Denver decides to keep Melo past the deadline. That's it!
The Nets are out. Read all of the quotes from Prov and King. He is not going back on that. He would lose all credibility from his players and future free agents. It's just not worth it at this point for the Nets. UNLESS Melo wants to play there and we know that he doesn't!

That leaves them with the rental market. Which is just part of that equation... Why? because teams that would rent him would have to believe that with his addition it gives them a chance to CONTEND for a championship. How many of those teams REALISTICALLY exist? Especially when you factor in that if they are on the west Denver would be a foolish to trade him there. For starters, their fan base would be pissed. And of the teams that become "contenders" where are their 2011 picks going to fall on the draft? In the best case scenario not much higher than ours. That makes us competitive on picks. And these so called teams that become contenders how much NBA ready young talent can they give back without reducing their chances of contending with Melo? Again, best case? two players. And finally how many of those teams have the "expiring salary" and additional savings that is needed to be competitive with our offer? Not many...

Sum it all up and put it into context... One of our young players, Curry, Azu(3mill in savings), two #1 and made Smith or Balkman and we have a deal...

The Rockets are interested in Melo and we won't be a contender with him.

NYK0605 · Post #995 » by **NYK0605** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:45 pm

seren wrote:
vallen wrote::lol: does anyone here actually know why the NBA is going on strike?? If it was to leave things the same, it wouldnt be happening.

Where did you get this information? First of all, there is no strike. There never will be. I guess you meant lockout. That will certainly not happen. Have you ever heard about a league named NHL? Yeah, me either. They had the lockout. Nobody cares about them anymore. Owners (at least some) want to play hard ball. But it takes years to recover from a lockout. They simply will not do that.

If I had the money, I would be willing to put 1 million on that there will be a lockout.

It's going to happen.

vallen · Post #996 » by **vallen** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:48 pm

seren wrote:
vallen wrote::lol: does anyone here actually know why the NBA is going on strike?? If it was to leave things the same, it wouldnt be happening.

Where did you get this information? First of all, there is no strike. There never will be. I guess you meant lockout. That will certainly not happen. Have you ever heard about a league named NHL? Yeah, me either. They had the lockout. Nobody cares about them anymore. Owners (at least some) want to play hard ball. But it takes years to recover from a lockout. They simply will not do that.

so every scenario now plays out exactly like the NHL now. interesting. how old were you during the 98-99 NBA season. cuz it says hello.

KNEMESIS · Post #997 » by **KNEMESIS** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:54 pm

knicks742 wrote:
stuporman wrote:Knicks fans are going to have to come to grips with losing Fields if they hope to trade for Melo. He is perfect next to those guys blah blah yes I know. It kills me to think he'll blossom into a near all star caliber player not with the NYK but the reality is he's the coveted player that will be the piece that tips the value to their offer.

Even if the Nets are out of it the Knicks are going to have to beat the rental market. At first Walsh would push as much as he can on the table as far as picks to price out the rental market. I don't think many teams will offer two first rounders of any kind for a rental. The Knicks will be a team who can offer two 1sts, two 2nds since they know he'll sign with them.

Then he can offer talent in up to 2 or even 3 talents with cheap contracts. Again that would be a cut above most other teams offers in a rental mindset. This could keep them squarely in play value wise. Couple that with a willingness to take at least some salary on and they are still able to stay as the ample offer.

Then to seal it at the last moment the Knicks will relent on the coveted prospect Fields if Denver agree to do the trade and the deal is done the day of the deadline. The Knicks likely will be the one who offers that much since the Nets have gone.

My only thought is that the Russian at the last second slide in to do the deal with no signed extension in hopes to woo Melo after a deal. He'll take the gamble in hopes that with months of being in Melo's ear he can make it happen.

Knicks fans are going to have to realize Fields is the sacrificial lamb in this situation. It sucks, he's a favorite of mine, too. I just think the Knicks will wind up having the best pick/saving package and then he'll be the 'topper' that is conceded as the last thing to trigger a deal between the two teams.

If he gets to stay, I'm stoked for sure. I hope in the end he won't be needed to deal the deal but I am prepared to deal with the alternative.

I think most of us are ok with one of Fields, Gallo, or Chandler. As long as we keep two out of the three, its a winning deal and that will be the goal when Donnie goes in and negotiates with them. Even Donnie made that clear when he said late last year or earlier thsi year that Fields is not a throw in to any deal and that he would only trade him as part of acquiring a major player.

If Donnie is right about Fields being the next Havlicek, then I don't want to lose Fields. They can have Gallo, Chandler, Douglass, Balkman (yeah I said Balkman), and whoever else as long as it leaves us with a core of Amare, Melo, Fields, and Felton. We can then mix and match the pieces around them, ie., a legit center, backup PG, etc...

Post #998 » by **knicks742** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:54 pm

kingmalaki wrote:
kneega wrote:The only concern here IMO is if Denver decides to keep Melo past the deadline. That's it!
The Nets are out. Read all of the quotes from Prov and King. He is not going back on that. He would lose all credibility from his players and future free agents. It's just not worth it at this point for the Nets. UNLESS Melo wants to play there and we know that he doesn't!

That leaves them with the rental market. Which is just part of that equation... Why? because teams that would rent him would have to believe that with his addition it gives them a chance to CONTEND for a championship. How many of those teams REALISTICALLY exist? Especially when you factor in that if they are on the west Denver would be a foolish to trade him there. For starters, their fan base would be pissed. And of the teams that become "contenders" where are their 2011 picks going to fall on the draft? In the best case scenario not much higher than ours. That makes us competitive on picks. And these so called teams that become contenders how much NBA ready young talent can they give back without reducing their chances of contending with Melo? Again, best case? two players. And finally how many of those teams have the "expiring salary" and additional savings that is needed to be competitive with our offer? Not many...

Sum it all up and put it into context... One of our young players, Curry, Azu(3mill in savings), two #1 and made Smith or Balkman and we have a deal...

The Rockets are interested in Melo and we won't be a contender with him.

I know you keep saying that but do you know what type of deal you guys are offering? Your GM didn't want to extend Brooks or Battier because of the CBA so I doubt he is going to take a bad contract from Denver for a rental. Would you trade Yao's expiring a pick or a young player because we can and will beat that offer. What offer can you put out there to rent him that we can't beat?

NYGiants4Natic · Post #999 » by **NYGiants4Natic** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:54 pm

Anyone who thinks the Knicks cannot compete in the East with Melo, stata, and Felton are just dumb basketball fans

Landry Fields, WC, and Gallo are nothing but role players who won't do anything in this league past what they already are doing which is being role players.

The Knicks cannot wait till FA because Melo would be dumb to opt out at that point and lose $18 million.

he might just play out his player option and that is another year without Melo

If he opts out the Knicks are not going to have the money to pay him what he will lose.

Doing a trade now will enable the Knicks to shed curry and extend Melo along with keeping his $18 for next season intact.

The Knicks with Melo, stat, and felton can build the rest of the team with role players that play defense and are not looking to be chuck up artist like the current flock we have now.

they all do not play defense because they all are looking to shoot 3's

Landry would be best because he plays good smart baseketball but to get a star you need to lose assets that are worth something to Denver and Landry fits that bill.

Gallo and WC are not attractive pieces to anybody but Knick fans and Brandon Tierney who is a dumb fool.

Use a second rounder or try to buy a later first rounder in the off season to draft a big guy who is not an offensive weapon but a banger who plays defense at Center.

Sign or find a guy who is a scrapper and knwos that he plays only if he is the dirty player on the team who plays hard wing defense.

Buidl the team for the next 5 years around the big 3 and you will be in contention every year.

right now you got nothing but a 500 team who is not all that good

Post #1000 » by **GONYK** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:58 pm

^^^

I'm lost to what your main point was