Around the NBA part 4

[yaboynyp]

Felton is the better player and a better fit for this team. Grunnie screwed up because he got nothing for Lin when his value was high.

What can I say other than I think you're quite wrong. And I don't think you're that confident because if he was the better player, all you'd have to say is "Felton is the better player." Period. The "and a better fit for this team" qualification makes me think you're not so sure about the first part of your statement.

Anyway, it's neither here nor there.

Felton is definitely not better than Lin. He's a better fit, I've already acknowledged, for a team that wants Melo to have full freedom on offense. But that's not the route to a title.

And the one thing that Felton does better -- shoot from deep -- Felton is not too good in that one area that he beats Lin. Felton's jumper is unreliable at best. The 37% from 3 is good but skewed up by a hot streak early. He is a pretty mediocre (and I'm being generous) shooter. The guy is barely above the Mendoza line at 40%.

Again, not trying to knock Felton. Decent sense of tempo, not a bad passer though sloppy at times, but he's just quite limited -- not a good jumper and not particularly quick though he makes up for it with some strength. And his defense is horrendous I might add.

But Felton is having a relatively (relative to last year) good season and his effort is there. He played his ass off against the Clippers. But he's not good enough.

I love how you mention a hot streak is to blame for skewed %’s but ignore the fact he was playing for a month with injury.. His numbers are his numbers, no excuses, and their better than Lin’s

[K_ick_God]

Felton is the better player.

Too late

Notice I didn't say "Lin is the better player and, anyway, he would've been a better fit for this team."

I acknowledge that Lin would be an adjustment for Melo but no pain, no gain. You have to challenge yourself to reach the heights of a championship. It's not going to come because Felton is a worse playmaker so he opens up Melo (and J.R.) for taking the difficult 1-on-1 moves they feel more comfortable with.

That "comfort zone" is not winning us jack. And that's what Dolan paved the way for. Get out of the way of Melo and J.R. so they can be iso players. Bad idea. You need easy baskets to win a title. It makes everything easier. Lin is that type of playmaker.

Lin is the better player at this very moment, at age 24, and it's not even close.

[yaboynyp]

Wait people still think Lin is better than Felton??? Wow….

He absolutely is. He's also better than Dragic and now I'd move him ahead of Jennings.

Lin is the real deal. His production is not great this year, but that's because Harden is there.

Put Lin on the Knicks, had we matched, and he's at 16 and 8 ... no problema ... with clutch play and timely plays ... as well as the steal machine that he's become. His 3-ball would still be low, he's not a great shooter, but that's really not such a big issue. He'd elevate Amar'e, Novak and J.R. Melo would have to adjust but I think he could've made the leap.

I do think it's ironic that Lin is a much better defender than Felton. Much.

I can’t argue against some mythical dream scenario. Lin’s numbers are his numbers. The coaches job is to put the ball in the hands of the players he thinks give him the best chance to win. The coach sees these players everyday in practice and it’s apparent he believes putting the ball in Harden’s hands more is the better option. It is what it is, and Jeremy has done very little to prove Mchale is wrong in this area.

[Capn'O]

Felton's also a better ball handler than Lin by a good margin. At lower usage and in more minutes Felton averages fewer turnovers. That's huge, especially for Woody whose philosophy is so dependent on limiting turnovers.

Felton's %s are actually LOWERED by a period where he had to shoulder a much higher burden of the offense than he really ever should (high usage/high shot volume). If you check the splits, when his volume has been low his percentages have been quite good. Other than ppg, his December splits are ROUGH but otherwise he has been solid.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3931/splits;_ylt=AimUbxtuNyIPOGRkF3vmgaccPaB4

I like Lin a lot but have REPENTED and joined the Feltwagon - in the better fit camp. Would, of course, have preferred both with Lin as the backup superguard.

[Lord Commander]

Lin is not better than Felton at this time in his career. I'm not sure if the stats exist for this but I'm sure Lin turns the ball over at higher rate while trying to penetrate and kick. Felton also has the more consistent J. They are equal finishers. The only thing I can see that Lin has over Felton is a quicker first step.

[j4remi]

Felton is the better player.

Too late

Notice I didn't say "Lin is the better player and, anyway, he would've been a better fit for this team."

I acknowledge that Lin would be an adjustment for Melo but no pain, no gain. You have to challenge yourself to reach the heights of a championship. It's not going to come because Felton is a worse playmaker so he opens up Melo for taking the difficult 1-on-1 moves he feels more comfortable with.

Lin is the better player at this very moment, at age 24, and it's not even close.

There's pretty much no statistical measure to support this.
The eye test makes it even worse since Lin has been so feast or famine all year.

Saying it's not even close denotes a clear bias, because even if people think Lin is better now, metric stats and regular stats both say otherwise. Team success says otherwise. Felton with a weaker Knicks squad had better stats than Lin. Felton minus an injury plagued month blows Lin out. Knicks management and other sources feel Felton is better as well.

I don't mind the comparison...but it's obviously fairly close and the edge is pretty blatantly Felton's.

[K_ick_God]

Felton's also a better ball handler than Lin by a good margin. At lower usage and in more minutes Felton averages fewer turnovers. That's huge, especially for Woody whose philosophy is so dependent on limiting turnovers.

Felton's %s are actually LOWERED by a period where he had to shoulder a much higher burden of the offense than he really ever should (high usage/high shot volume). If you check the splits, when his volume has been low his percentages have been quite good. Other than ppg, his December splits are ROUGH but otherwise he has been solid.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3931/splits;_ylt=AimUbxtuNyIPOGRkF3vmgaccPaB4

I like Lin a lot but have joined the Feltwagon

Lin had a rough November and Felton had a great November. I guess it's not totally fair to throw them out, but I discount that first month by a lot.

Felton manages to keep the ball in his team's possession pretty well, but he's not a great ballhandler by any stretch. His handle and passing are all over the place ... it's an adventure.

Lin commits turnovers but he's young and TO's can be a very misleading stat for a PG. Rondo turns it over a lot. You want your PG to try difficult passes and create. Not be a Calderon.

But yeah, Lin's handle needs to improve. Most of his turnovers are on risky passes that, when they connect, really help his team.

[Capn'O]

Lin is not better than Felton at this time in his career. I'm not sure if the stats exist for this but I'm sure Lin turns the ball over at higher rate while trying to penetrate and kick. Felton also has the more consistent J. They are equal finishers. The only thing I can see that Lin has over Felton is a quicker first step.

They do. It's turnover% in the "advanced" section. Lin isn't too bad this year but Felton has been stellar. Really low % for a PG.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/feltora01.html

They are not equal finishers. Lin is much better at the rim and much better at beating his man. That is has biggest asset. Somebody posted the stats yesterday that Lin is 9th in the NBA at initiating drives. That's no joke.

[JustaKnickFan]

Felton is the better player.

Too late

Notice I didn't say "Lin is the better player and, anyway, he would've been a better fit for this team."

I acknowledge that Lin would be an adjustment for Melo but no pain, no gain. You have to challenge yourself to reach the heights of a championship. It's not going to come because Felton is a worse playmaker so he opens up Melo (and J.R.) for taking the difficult 1-on-1 moves they feel more comfortable with.

That "comfort zone" is not winning us jack. And that's what Dolan paved the way for. Get out of the way of Melo and J.R. so they can be iso players. Bad idea. You need easy baskets to win a title. It makes everything easier. Lin is that type of playmaker.

Lin is the better player at this very moment, at age 24, and it's not even close.

You're severely underrating Felton.

Felton caused teams to actually have to game plan for Tyson freaking Chandler because he can lob the ball so well to him. Yeah Felton may not shoot well and Lin may play better defense, but Felton is the reason why this team is one of the most efficient offenses in the league.

Think about the for a second, the Knicks are barely a team that runs the fast-break, so when you're able to boast an offense like that despite having no reliable offensive threats outside of Melo for most of the year, it is very impressive.

Felton does a lot of stuff that tends to go unnoticed, and even when Felton didn't play and this offense turned to crap, people still would rather have Lin.

I'm sorry but Lin would be awful on this team. Chandler would ruin the spacing for Lin drives to the basket, and cause Lin to turn it over a lot.

Lin would be the man that teams rotate to last when they double Melo or Stat because they know they can leave him open without him being much of a threat.

Lastly, Lin thrives on the fast break, and the Knicks are not a fast break team. Yeah Lin has some potential, but his style is so bad for this team, it's ridiculous. Felton on the other-hand, turned a 17th ranked offense into one of the best offenses in the league.

[GONYK]

KG, the potential with Lin is there, but to definitively call him better than Felton is an emotional declaration, because the facts don't support it at this time.

[K_ick_God]

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree fellas.

Lin is young but we needed to invest in him and give him the ball. Felton is just not a good enough playmaker (or shooter or clutch player) to transform the Knicks into what we needed to become, and that is one where we can pass & move well enough to get easy scores. (And by the way we played with Lin getting heavy minutes under Woodson and won a lot of games over a short time so maybe the adjustment wouldn't have been so severe?) Instead Dolan intervened and cost us exactly the kind of playmaker we had been waiting for.

Felton is adequate, but he is not a very good player by any stretch (relative to other PG's in the league) and his playoff performances have been abysmal.

We'll just have to see. I foresee Lin having a very good playoffs and making another name for himself. I don't see that for Felton.

[j4remi]

Lin had a rough November and Felton had a great November. I guess it's not totally fair to throw them out, but I discount that first month by a lot.

Felton manages to keep the ball in his team's possession pretty well, but he's not a great ballhandler by any stretch. His handle and passing are all over the place ... it's an adventure.

Lin commits turnovers but he's young and TO's can be a very misleading stat for a PG. Rondo turns it over a lot. You want your PG to try difficult passes and create. Not be a Calderon.

But yeah, Lin's handle needs to improve. Most of his turnovers are on risky passes that, when they connect, really help his team.

The TO thing happens typically because of a PG's higher Usage. You'd expect the higher TO's to be due to higher Usage.

Lin's Usage% 19.7 Felton's Usage% 24.8

TO% is per 100 plays...Lin's 19.9 Felton's 13.2

So maybe it's because Lin takes more risks with his passing...

Assist% Lin 28.4 Felton 31.4

The only place Lin has Felton beat is in scoring efficiency...and if you go by eFG over TS% the difference isn't big at all. So at some point, you have to acknowledge that you're just making excuses for the kid. Especially when you discount the first month of the season because Felton spent a month with bruised bones in both hands and no Melo as an option. In that span he was forced to take more FGA's than he'd ever want, especially when he was hurting.

[Capn'O]

Felton's also a better ball handler than Lin by a good margin. At lower usage and in more minutes Felton averages fewer turnovers. That's huge, especially for Woody whose philosophy is so dependent on limiting turnovers.

Felton's %s are actually LOWERED by a period where he had to shoulder a much higher burden of the offense than he really ever should (high usage/high shot volume). If you check the splits, when his volume has been low his percentages have been quite good. Other than ppg, his December splits are ROUGH but otherwise he has been solid.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3931/splits;_ylt=AimUbxtuNyIPOGRkF3vmgaccPaB4

I like Lin a lot but have joined the Feltwagon

Lin had a rough November and Felton had a great November. I guess it's not totally fair to throw them out, but I discount that first month by a lot.

Felton manages to keep the ball in his team's possession pretty well, but he's not a great ballhandler by any stretch. His handle and passing are all over the place ... it's an adventure.

Lin commits turnovers but he's young and TO's can be a very misleading stat for a PG. Rondo turns it over a lot. You want your PG to try difficult passes and create. Not be a Calderon.

But yeah, Lin's handle needs to improve. Most of his turnovers are on risky passes that, when they connect, really help his team.

I believe I've spoken on Lin's November Felton had a slight bump in November but it's his DECEMBER that is the anomaly because of how high his usage was. That shot volume is not normal for Felton but with players out left and right that is what happened.

Well, we can talk handle all you want but at the end of the day it's keeping the possession that Woody cares about. At this point in his career, Felton is the better player in that department and it isn't close. And I'd hardly describe Felton as Calderon. The guy can get in the lane pretty well. Obviously, that's Lin's greatest strength though.

[Rasho Brezec]

Lin is the real deal. His production is not great this year, but that's because Harden is there.

[K_ick_God]

Lin is the real deal. His production is not great this year, but that's because Harden is there.

The proverbial smiley face because you can't make an argument. Nice.

Harden has the ball. Lin is not playing the Rondo role on that team at all. That's what he could've done on the Knicks. And considering that Harden dominates the dribble, Lin averaging 6 assists tells you a lot.

Oh so after I actually made a real argument, I'll give you this too

Two for the price of one.

[j4remi]

If Lin is playing poorly because Harden is there, what makes you think he'd be better with Melo?

[AllanHoustonFan]

Lin is the real deal. His production is not great this year, but that's because Harden is there.

Lol that is such a lame excuse.

[K_ick_God]

If Lin is playing poorly because Harden is there, what makes you think he'd be better with Melo?

Melo is not a great fit with Lin either. I've conceded that. But Melo is not Harden, who is more of a playmaker, dribbler, ballhander. It's easier with Melo than Harden.

My larger point is that we don't get to a title by just letting Melo be Melo. He is an alpha male capable of carrying an offense, I think we all know that, but we need more motion and easier baskets that are the PG's job ... to beat elite teams.

I don't give Felton a failing grade in these areas. But he leaves a lot to be desired and, more importantly, I think Felton is the kind of player who does more poorly when he's pressured ... which is why he's performed terribly in two playoff outings.

I also find it funny that everybody removes Linsanity from their calculation of how good Lin is. Buying the media hype that Lin was just on a completely aberrational run? Why? It's like buying hype that something is hype.

For me, I look at Linsanity as a sign of how clutch and capable this kid is. And I see no reason not to. Umm he was actually doing those things and even after Linsanity, he had 18 and 8 type games several times under Woodson.

Did Felton ever have a Linsanity run? No. But he did have a fast start to his Knick career, after which he tailed off considerably, and that pattern is pretty similar to this season so far as well.

[K_ick_God]

Lin is the real deal. His production is not great this year, but that's because Harden is there.

Lol that is such a lame excuse.

Is Lin playing the Rondo role in Houston? Yes or no.

Did he play the Rondo role in his New York starts? Yes or no.

[JustaKnickFan]

Lin is the real deal. His production is not great this year, but that's because Harden is there.

The proverbial smiley face because you can't make an argument. Nice.

Harden has the ball. Lin is not playing the Rondo role on that team at all. That's what he could've done on the Knicks. And considering that Harden dominates the dribble, Lin averaging 6 assists tells you a lot.

Oh so after I actually made a real argument, I'll give you this too

Two for the price of one.

Lin is averaging 6 assists because the Rockets play fast-paced while the Knicks are a half-court team, so the Rockets have more possessions. The Knicks, on the other hand, are 28th in fast break points.

Also, how has Felton played poorly when pressured?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thfM7AI3h3o[/youtube]
As opposed to
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7KsuyQb-1Y[/youtube]