WHG traded to hornets for O'Bryant and two 2nds

[boomann21]

You guys must really love Willy. When other players would want out and mess up their trade value by professing it in the News over and over I don't remember this much outrage. We turned what was one 2nd round pick in Willy into three second round picks.

[boomann21]

All-Rookie lottery pick Jahlil Okafor netted Trevor Booker and they had to include Stauskas and a 2nd rounder...

Thank you!!!!

And he is better and younger.

We got 2 2nd rd picks for a guy we picked with a 2nd rd.

Kanter is better

This also opens up a slot for a G-player

I think Okafor is like -24 in overall +/- rating if that means anything to anyone. He's pretty bad.

[E-Balla]

If Neal got those minutes from Popovich, in Year One, Two, or Eighty-four, it's because he earned them. I also remember when they let him go too. He earned his minutes right? Why didn't they keep in perpetuity?

You're a dumb **** ain't you? Gary Neal wasn't let go he finished out his whole rookie deal and wasn't resigned because he was like 31 asking for a big payday and he wasn't that good. Even as he wasn't that good he played 21.1, 21.5, and 21.8 mpg in his 3 seasons with the Spurs playing more minutes the more and more he showed he couldn't play. So yes he did keep his minutes in perpetuity because THAT'S HOW PLAYERS GAIN A RHYTHM YOU FOOL. Switch a player's minutes every night and they'll never look good. Lin didn't look good until he got consistent minutes. KOQ looked horrible his last year in Orlando when they stopped giving him his minutes consistently. That's what the hell happens. Willy already proved himself ON THE FLOOR which is what matters. No other team ever has had a first team all rookie player on the roster and opened up their season with 5 DNP - CDs in the first 10 games. PERIOD! NOT ONE! EVER! I swear y'all got brain damage.

None of us are in practice, clearly, but Hornacek came out and said the guys who played were the guys who earned the minutes, and that defense was a major reason why. All the per 36 numbers in the world don't address that.

But he starts the worst defender on the team at C? FOH. Horny is stupid I trust his basketball opinions as much as Phil's. He said Rose was a great player last year. Of course he's going to lie to justify his own dumb decisions. You seriously want me to believe Sessions earned minutes over Frank with his defense? You believe that ****?

And no, you earn minutes in practice. Now all of sudden players and coaches shouldn't care about competing for minutes in camp and practice? You don't GAF about that?! The fcuk?!?!?! No reputable organization does that! Do you hear yourself??? Willy comes in overweight and out of shape: So What!!! He was All Rookie last year!!! LMAAAOOOOOOOOOO

Y'all swear y'all know what happens in practice. You don't. You know what happens on the floor and does Willy look out of shape or like someone not playing well? No. He looks perfectly fine. Last year when I was saying free Willy y'all assumed he sucked in practice but come gametime he's throwing up double doubles and outplaying all but KP and Melo? FOH your logic is all types of backwards. Blair was horrible and stayed his whole first deal with the Spurs consistently getting minutes. Slo Mo is just having his first good season when he's been getting minutes in San Antonio for 4 years consistently and prior to this year never played as well as Willy did last year. Davis Bertans is trash and consistently gets minutes in San Antonio. But nah the Spurs bench dudes when they don't perform according to you who has no facts backing up your claims and no examples but ignores mine.

That's why the Spurs develop young talent and we don't. We give up on players that play well. They don't give up on dudes that are scrubs. They always look to maximize the situation of each individual pick while we throw good talent into the wind. When Willy is averaging 8/7 the rest of the year I don't wanna hear ****.

Now why I gotta be all that?!?!

No one knows what happens in practice, but again, Hirnacek came out and stated the rotation was the way it was with the boys because of defense, and that the guys playing had earned their minutes.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/10/20/what-happened-to-willy-hernangomezs-minutes-with-knicks/

They even bolder the quotes directly from Hornacek for the visually impaired. So in this regard, I guess we DO know what happened in practice. He got beat. I don't know whether he came into camp overweight or not, just that you implied that regardless of other players or how he came into camp, Willy deserved to play. My comments there were meant to dispel that notion. Blair didn't consistently get minutes. I just googled him. Check out his Wikipedia page under his professional career. He was a player who got minutes his first year with some OUTSTANDING performances, ends up second Team All Rookie, earned the starting nod his second year with some more outlier performances, before the Spurs brought in Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw and he lost his minutes. He eventually falls out of the rotation, makes his displeasure known, while the Spurs go on to win the West and lose to the Heat in the Finals, and Blair ends up gone the next year to the Mavericks. Sound familiar bruh?!?! He was a young player who lost his time to veterans. See how foolish you sound touting guys when you clearly don't know the situation? You don't build winning programs like the Spurs have by just GIVING guys minutes!!!!!

The year Dejuan Blair "fell out the rotation" he got no DNP - CDs in the regular season and averaged 14 mpg. Willy got DNP - CDs in half our games and when he does touch the floor he only hit 14 minutes 4 times. Like I said FOH. It's not giving guys minutes its developing them.

[Marty McFly]

You guys must really love Willy. When other players would want out and mess up their trade value by professing it in the News over and over I don't remember this much outrage. We turned what was one 2nd round pick in Willy into three second round picks.

we traded two 2nd rounders for willie.

[FKF]

"The real problem wasn't failing to play him in a rebuilding year - it was Hernangomez failing to beat out his competition, crack the rotation, and build on his successful rookie campaign."

Synciere

Yeah, so he outplayed O’Quinn in his rookie season, but couldn’t outplay O’Quinn in his sophomore year ?
BS.

Yes. Players get better and players get worse. It happens every year. I'm not even sure how or why that has to be disputed. Some just stay the same. For some it's an issue of system, and we did get rid of the triangle this year.

O’Quinn got better averaging 6 & 6 as opposed to 6 & 6? Stop it.
Willy was all rookie 1st team, and is a member of the Spanish national team where they give a damn about the triangle.
Watch him build himself into this league now that he’s gone and going to get pt behind Dwight Howard.

[MP4LIFE]

You guys must really love Willy. When other players would want out and mess up their trade value by professing it in the News over and over I don't remember this much outrage. We turned what was one 2nd round pick in Willy into three second round picks.

Not really. We turned two 2nd round picks (2020 and 2021) into Wily.

Wily developed and gained value and we then, in turn, traded him for two 2nd round picks in 2020 and 2021.

So, if you think about it, we never had Wily. We pressed reset on the original trade and got our picks back. Let's all look at the trade this way to feel better about it.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I wholeheartedly disagree with Willy being on par with Enes offensively and rebounding. Passing, yes. I don't consider him better defensively, and neither does the organization. They came out and said so at the beginning of the year and never wavered from that stance. Defense is the biggest reason he's been on the bench all year.

Enes is slightly more efficient, but they're the same type of player with the same skills. Both flash a mid range once in a while, but they're primarily paint bigs. Enes is a physical guy, Willy being finesse. Also, the idea that they are not comparable rebounders is absolutely false. Check the TRB% last year for Willy vs Enes' career.

As for defense, I still disagree. Enes is the worst big defender in the NBA. Even with Willy's limitations, he's at least light on his feet and showed some flashes last year. Enes never has shown more than "effort," which means nothing if it doesn't produce meaningful results. I personally think the Knicks were afraid of benching someone being paid 18 million in favor of someone getting 1.5.

Historically Enes was THE single worst defensive big in history according to many statisticians. That's why I was so against the trade when it happened. But the eye test shows that he's been better. Not good, but better. Once you incorporate his top 5 rebounding potential and ability to finish around the hoop, which is also better than Willy's, it's a pretty clear choice IF you're trying to win. I guess we just have to agree to disagree there.

The Knicks just sent Noah home. The 18 million had nothing to do with it.

Eye test didn't show anything. I don't know what you're talking about, man. The stats back up the idea that he's the same garbage defender he was last year, too. Is he trying more and exerting more effort? Yeah, but who cares? Effort doesn't mean a damn thing if it's not producing results. Does your grade change if you study 10 hours for an exam and get a C? No. It's still a C.

His ability to finish around the rim is marginally better than Willy's. Enes is at .696 for this year and .656 for his career, and Willy is .636 for his career and .733 for this season. Sample size is smaller this year for Willy, but that's a marginal difference at best. Rebounding Enes (this season / career) - ORB% 15.8/14.3 DRB% 29.9/22.5 TRB% 23/18.4; Rebounding Willy (last season because sample size / career) - ORB% 13.8/13.3 DRB% 27.1/26.2 TRB% 20.4/19.8 . Before this season, Enes' had one season above 18.3TRB%. That's it. Willy is absolutely an equal in rebounding.

You don't know it didn't. They sent Noah home because he was complaining. How would it look if the Knicks had 35 million just chilling on the bench / at home? Not a good look.

[FKF]

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[nyczlegacy]

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everyone except KP is a scrub on that list come on now

[VirginiaKnickFan]

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The real problem is not being high enough in the draft to come away with talented players, with the exception of KP. If the Knicks management past and present had committed to tanking, we would in all likelihood have hit on some All-Pro players, NOT NBA players.

[FKF]

Read on Twitter

everyone except KP is a scrub on that list come on now

The Knicks fail to grow their players. And then give up on them too soon. Fact.

And most of the time, they end up doing better on other teams. Knicks always point at the weaknesses, never point the positives. Hardaway did better in Atlanta, Lee did better in GS, Frye did better in Phx, Gallo/Chandler did better in Denver, Ariza did better everywhere he played, the list goes on and on and on.

Watch KP come back and bolt at FA.

[Synciere]

Enes is slightly more efficient, but they're the same type of player with the same skills. Both flash a mid range once in a while, but they're primarily paint bigs. Enes is a physical guy, Willy being finesse. Also, the idea that they are not comparable rebounders is absolutely false. Check the TRB% last year for Willy vs Enes' career.

As for defense, I still disagree. Enes is the worst big defender in the NBA. Even with Willy's limitations, he's at least light on his feet and showed some flashes last year. Enes never has shown more than "effort," which means nothing if it doesn't produce meaningful results. I personally think the Knicks were afraid of benching someone being paid 18 million in favor of someone getting 1.5.

Historically Enes was THE single worst defensive big in history according to many statisticians. That's why I was so against the trade when it happened. But the eye test shows that he's been better. Not good, but better. Once you incorporate his top 5 rebounding potential and ability to finish around the hoop, which is also better than Willy's, it's a pretty clear choice IF you're trying to win. I guess we just have to agree to disagree there.

The Knicks just sent Noah home. The 18 million had nothing to do with it.

Eye test didn't show anything. I don't know what you're talking about, man. The stats back up the idea that he's the same garbage defender he was last year, too. Is he trying more and exerting more effort? Yeah, but who cares? Effort doesn't mean a damn thing if it's not producing results. Does your grade change if you study 10 hours for an exam and get a C? No. It's still a C.

His ability to finish around the rim is marginally better than Willy's. Enes is at .696 for this year and .656 for his career, and Willy is .636 for his career and .733 for this season. Sample size is smaller this year for Willy, but that's a marginal difference at best. Rebounding Enes (this season / career) - ORB% 15.8/14.3 DRB% 29.9/22.5 TRB% 23/18.4; Rebounding Willy (last season because sample size / career) - ORB% 13.8/13.3 DRB% 27.1/26.2 TRB% 20.4/19.8 . Before this season, Enes' had one season above 18.3TRB%. That's it. Willy is absolutely an equal in rebounding.

You don't know it didn't. They sent Noah home because he was complaining. How would it look if the Knicks had 35 million just chilling on the bench / at home? Not a good look.

Except Willy is not a good defender either!!! I'd understand your stance if Willy was a good defender and as good, or almost as good offensively, but Willy is just as bad defensively, and isn't nearly as good rebounding or scoring on the interior. Yes, their styles are similar, but their output isn't. Like I said, we can agree to disagree, but I do think it's telling that clearly, the coaching staff agrees with me. I don't think Hornacek is as bad as many on this board think though.

[Synciere]

Yeah, so he outplayed O’Quinn in his rookie season, but couldn’t outplay O’Quinn in his sophomore year ?
BS.

Yes. Players get better and players get worse. It happens every year. I'm not even sure how or why that has to be disputed. Some just stay the same. For some it's an issue of system, and we did get rid of the triangle this year.

O’Quinn got better averaging 6 & 6 as opposed to 6 & 6? Stop it.
Willy was all rookie 1st team, and is a member of the Spanish national team where they give a damn about the triangle.
Watch him build himself into this league now that he’s gone and going to get pt behind Dwight Howard.

I said some players stay the same also. So O'Quinn maybe stayed the same and didn't get better or worse. Maybe Willy even got better, but I don't think he's better than Kanter is today, and like Knickstape said, maybe O'Quinn is just a better fit with our other bigs.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Historically Enes was THE single worst defensive big in history according to many statisticians. That's why I was so against the trade when it happened. But the eye test shows that he's been better. Not good, but better. Once you incorporate his top 5 rebounding potential and ability to finish around the hoop, which is also better than Willy's, it's a pretty clear choice IF you're trying to win. I guess we just have to agree to disagree there.

The Knicks just sent Noah home. The 18 million had nothing to do with it.

Eye test didn't show anything. I don't know what you're talking about, man. The stats back up the idea that he's the same garbage defender he was last year, too. Is he trying more and exerting more effort? Yeah, but who cares? Effort doesn't mean a damn thing if it's not producing results. Does your grade change if you study 10 hours for an exam and get a C? No. It's still a C.

His ability to finish around the rim is marginally better than Willy's. Enes is at .696 for this year and .656 for his career, and Willy is .636 for his career and .733 for this season. Sample size is smaller this year for Willy, but that's a marginal difference at best. Rebounding Enes (this season / career) - ORB% 15.8/14.3 DRB% 29.9/22.5 TRB% 23/18.4; Rebounding Willy (last season because sample size / career) - ORB% 13.8/13.3 DRB% 27.1/26.2 TRB% 20.4/19.8 . Before this season, Enes' had one season above 18.3TRB%. That's it. Willy is absolutely an equal in rebounding.

You don't know it didn't. They sent Noah home because he was complaining. How would it look if the Knicks had 35 million just chilling on the bench / at home? Not a good look.

Except Willy is not a good defender either!!! I'd understand your stance if Willy was a good defender and as good, or almost as good offensively, but Willy is just as bad defensively, and isn't nearly as good rebounding or scoring on the interior. Yes, their styles are similar, but their output isn't. Like I said, we can agree to disagree, but I do think it's telling that clearly, the coaching staff agrees with me. I don't think Hornacek is as bad as many on this board think though.

He's not a good defender, but he is better than Enes and has actually shown flashes. Enes has been, and will always be, a bad defender - he's a lost cause. Willy was and still is not. It doesn't matter how many times you say they are not equal rebounders, the fact remains that they are. The interior scoring is also essentially the same, with Enes getting a marginal advantage there.

If you had said that part about Jeff in the beginning, I never would have responded in the first place. He's trash.

[Synciere]

You're a dumb **** ain't you? Gary Neal wasn't let go he finished out his whole rookie deal and wasn't resigned because he was like 31 asking for a big payday and he wasn't that good. Even as he wasn't that good he played 21.1, 21.5, and 21.8 mpg in his 3 seasons with the Spurs playing more minutes the more and more he showed he couldn't play. So yes he did keep his minutes in perpetuity because THAT'S HOW PLAYERS GAIN A RHYTHM YOU FOOL. Switch a player's minutes every night and they'll never look good. Lin didn't look good until he got consistent minutes. KOQ looked horrible his last year in Orlando when they stopped giving him his minutes consistently. That's what the hell happens. Willy already proved himself ON THE FLOOR which is what matters. No other team ever has had a first team all rookie player on the roster and opened up their season with 5 DNP - CDs in the first 10 games. PERIOD! NOT ONE! EVER! I swear y'all got brain damage.


But he starts the worst defender on the team at C? FOH. Horny is stupid I trust his basketball opinions as much as Phil's. He said Rose was a great player last year. Of course he's going to lie to justify his own dumb decisions. You seriously want me to believe Sessions earned minutes over Frank with his defense? You believe that ****?


Y'all swear y'all know what happens in practice. You don't. You know what happens on the floor and does Willy look out of shape or like someone not playing well? No. He looks perfectly fine. Last year when I was saying free Willy y'all assumed he sucked in practice but come gametime he's throwing up double doubles and outplaying all but KP and Melo? FOH your logic is all types of backwards. Blair was horrible and stayed his whole first deal with the Spurs consistently getting minutes. Slo Mo is just having his first good season when he's been getting minutes in San Antonio for 4 years consistently and prior to this year never played as well as Willy did last year. Davis Bertans is trash and consistently gets minutes in San Antonio. But nah the Spurs bench dudes when they don't perform according to you who has no facts backing up your claims and no examples but ignores mine.

That's why the Spurs develop young talent and we don't. We give up on players that play well. They don't give up on dudes that are scrubs. They always look to maximize the situation of each individual pick while we throw good talent into the wind. When Willy is averaging 8/7 the rest of the year I don't wanna hear ****.

Now why I gotta be all that?!?!

No one knows what happens in practice, but again, Hirnacek came out and stated the rotation was the way it was with the boys because of defense, and that the guys playing had earned their minutes.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/10/20/what-happened-to-willy-hernangomezs-minutes-with-knicks/

They even bolder the quotes directly from Hornacek for the visually impaired. So in this regard, I guess we DO know what happened in practice. He got beat. I don't know whether he came into camp overweight or not, just that you implied that regardless of other players or how he came into camp, Willy deserved to play. My comments there were meant to dispel that notion. Blair didn't consistently get minutes. I just googled him. Check out his Wikipedia page under his professional career. He was a player who got minutes his first year with some OUTSTANDING performances, ends up second Team All Rookie, earned the starting nod his second year with some more outlier performances, before the Spurs brought in Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw and he lost his minutes. He eventually falls out of the rotation, makes his displeasure known, while the Spurs go on to win the West and lose to the Heat in the Finals, and Blair ends up gone the next year to the Mavericks. Sound familiar bruh?!?! He was a young player who lost his time to veterans. See how foolish you sound touting guys when you clearly don't know the situation? You don't build winning programs like the Spurs have by just GIVING guys minutes!!!!!

The year Dejuan Blair "fell out the rotation" he got no DNP - CDs in the regular season and averaged 14 mpg. Willy got DNP - CDs in half our games and when he does touch the floor he only hit 14 minutes 4 times. Like I said FOH. It's not giving guys minutes its developing them.

Their career paths are damn near identical and that's what you're holding on to? Okay. You gone catch a hernia reaching around for that one. That's your opinion. Either way, not sure how based on my arguments you can decide I'm a dumb shyt or fcuk or anything else. I stand by my stance just like you do.

[Synciere]

Eye test didn't show anything. I don't know what you're talking about, man. The stats back up the idea that he's the same garbage defender he was last year, too. Is he trying more and exerting more effort? Yeah, but who cares? Effort doesn't mean a damn thing if it's not producing results. Does your grade change if you study 10 hours for an exam and get a C? No. It's still a C.

His ability to finish around the rim is marginally better than Willy's. Enes is at .696 for this year and .656 for his career, and Willy is .636 for his career and .733 for this season. Sample size is smaller this year for Willy, but that's a marginal difference at best. Rebounding Enes (this season / career) - ORB% 15.8/14.3 DRB% 29.9/22.5 TRB% 23/18.4; Rebounding Willy (last season because sample size / career) - ORB% 13.8/13.3 DRB% 27.1/26.2 TRB% 20.4/19.8 . Before this season, Enes' had one season above 18.3TRB%. That's it. Willy is absolutely an equal in rebounding.

You don't know it didn't. They sent Noah home because he was complaining. How would it look if the Knicks had 35 million just chilling on the bench / at home? Not a good look.

Except Willy is not a good defender either!!! I'd understand your stance if Willy was a good defender and as good, or almost as good offensively, but Willy is just as bad defensively, and isn't nearly as good rebounding or scoring on the interior. Yes, their styles are similar, but their output isn't. Like I said, we can agree to disagree, but I do think it's telling that clearly, the coaching staff agrees with me. I don't think Hornacek is as bad as many on this board think though.

He's not a good defender, but he is better than Enes and has actually shown flashes. Enes has been, and will always be, a bad defender - he's a lost cause. Willy was and still is not. It doesn't matter how many times you say they are not equal rebounders, the fact remains that they are. The interior scoring is also essentially the same, with Enes getting a marginal advantage there.

If you had said that part about Jeff in the beginning, I never would have responded in the first place. He's trash.

If you don't see that in spite of whatever level of defense Enes is at currently, he's better than Willy, I'm not sure what to say either. I've tried to stay away from hyperboli, but Willy is pretty trash too lol... Lots of All Rookies end up being trash. Even some first overall picks and ROYs too. That's no excuse for Willy not winning more minutes.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Except Willy is not a good defender either!!! I'd understand your stance if Willy was a good defender and as good, or almost as good offensively, but Willy is just as bad defensively, and isn't nearly as good rebounding or scoring on the interior. Yes, their styles are similar, but their output isn't. Like I said, we can agree to disagree, but I do think it's telling that clearly, the coaching staff agrees with me. I don't think Hornacek is as bad as many on this board think though.

He's not a good defender, but he is better than Enes and has actually shown flashes. Enes has been, and will always be, a bad defender - he's a lost cause. Willy was and still is not. It doesn't matter how many times you say they are not equal rebounders, the fact remains that they are. The interior scoring is also essentially the same, with Enes getting a marginal advantage there.

If you had said that part about Jeff in the beginning, I never would have responded in the first place. He's trash.

If you don't see that in spite of whatever level of defense Enes is at currently, he's better than Willy, I'm not sure what to say either. I've tried to stay away from hyperboli, but Willy is pretty trash too lol...

Alright. So I guess we're done here?

[K_ick_God]

You guys must really love Willy. When other players would want out and mess up their trade value by professing it in the News over and over I don't remember this much outrage. We turned what was one 2nd round pick in Willy into three second round picks.

It's not just Willy's fault for being out of shape. If you can't get good value for a player, do something else to improve his value. Berate him, help him, use carrots & sticks. It sucks that Willy was less motivated but don't cash him in at a low point. He was a very productive rookie less than a year ago.

[thebuzzardman]

Read on Twitter

What's wrong Chriss? Knicks developed the sh*t out of Kanter, Jack, Beasley and LFT this year.

[aq_ua]

Read on Twitter

Two of those guys (Landry / Iman) have done nothing impressive since their Knick careers. KP is continuing to develop as a Knick. Timmy is really the only one you can point to and say he developed better elsewhere. The takeaway, perhaps, is that we seem to draft well so selling early (high) might actually be the right strategy for us. We’ll have to see which way Willy goes.